Master System better than the Nes & 7800

[Daria]

Nah. Same game is a stretch.

The NES one took a bootlegged Dragon Quest approach to the game, and doesn't present the adventure the same.

They over consoled the game. Ultima III didn't do too bad but Ultima 4 is just goony.

that being said, the SMS one is more true to Ultima. no goony Dragon Quest infused happenings.

I swear I posted that in here somewhere already but i can't find it.

I haven't played SMS Ultima 4. By same game I just meant that when pairing up counterparts, Ultima 4 is best matched to... Ultima 4. I wasn't making the argument that either the NES or SMS games were better. Just that a child growing up with an SMS could have had an equally kick ass selection of RPGs as the child with the NES.

[PresidentLeever]

With the notable exception of Phantasy Star, I can't think of any game in any genre that is superior to its NES counterparts. For what it's worth, here's the latest iteration of my greatest SMS list: http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/sms.html. Any additions/edits/comments/recommendations are welcome.

I see that sound has been a big debate recently. I haven't yet played an SMS game where the music is truly catchy or something I'd want to have in mp3 format for easy access. What are the SMS games with the best sound?

Well, I think Wonder Boy III destroys Metroid, Land of Illusion is the best 8-bit Disney game, and Kenseiden trumps both the first two Castlevanias... but maybe that's just me
True, you have WBIII on the Turbo also but apart from the smoother scrolling and increased color palette all the changes were for the worse.

As for sound, The Flash and Streets of Rage are pretty impressive for SN76489. My personal favs from bitd are Golvellius, Fantasy Zone, Black Belt and WBIII.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAHLs...response_watch

A homebrew song made with a SMS tracker:
http://8bitcollective.com/music/kulo...ter+System%29/

[NeoZeedeater]

With the notable exception of Phantasy Star, I can't think of any game in any genre that is superior to its NES counterparts.

Wonder Boy III is better than any NES platform/adventure game by a good margin, and I agree with PresidentLeever that most of the changes to the TG16 port were for the worse..
Kenseiden is a deeper and more satisfying experience than the NES Castlevanias.
Shinobi's as good as the NES Ninja Gaidens if not better.
Bubble Bobble, Choplifter, Rampage, Paperboy, Ultima IV, and every port of a Sega arcade game (except Alien Syndrome) are way better on SMS.
Power Strike II is the best vertical shooter of the two systems or least tied with Recca. SMS R-Type's as good or better than FC Gradius II for horizontal ones.
Safari Hunt kills Duck Hunt. SMS gun games in general are much more playable than NES ones.
SMS Time Soldiers is arguably better than similar games on NES.
Psycho Fox beats its NES predecessor, Kid Kool.
The SMS remake of Impossible Mission is better than the NES' Impossible Mission II.
The SMS arguably had better racing games (Out Run series and a slightly nicer looking version of Micro Machines)
Penguin Land is a contender for best puzzle game of the era.

I'm not saying the SMS is the superior system. If I had to choose one at gunpoint I would pick the NES for the greater quantity and variety but the SMS is very comparable when it comes to "best ofs" of the 8-bit console generation, and it was best in some areas. I feel that the general lack of love for it stems mostly from ignorance or NES nostalgia bias. I owned and loved both systems back in the day.

[Dire 51]

I'm still struggling to really warm up to the SMS, despite the fact that I like cheering for the underdog (i.e. my favorite 16-bit system is the Turbografx-16). With the notable exception of Phantasy Star, I can't think of any game in any genre that is superior to its NES counterparts. For what it's worth, here's the latest iteration of my greatest SMS list: http://timewarpgamer.com/top_games/sms.html. Any additions/edits/comments/recommendations are welcome.

Kenseiden needs to be on that list. It's a truly awesome game that just doesn't get enough love. It was the closest thing you'd find on the NES to Castlevania until Master of Darkness came along.

I see that sound has been a big debate recently. I haven't yet played an SMS game where the music is truly catchy or something I'd want to have in mp3 format for easy access. What are the SMS games with the best sound?

You need to delve into the FM sound to find that out. Some don't like it, but I think it's far superior to the standard PSG sound. For example, listen to the music for Rastan in FM, it sounds really close to the original arcade. With PSG sound, it's not bad, but it lacks that near-arcade quality.

[Arkhan]

I haven't played SMS Ultima 4. By same game I just meant that when pairing up counterparts, Ultima 4 is best matched to... Ultima 4. I wasn't making the argument that either the NES or SMS games were better. Just that a child growing up with an SMS could have had an equally kick ass selection of RPGs as the child with the NES.

Oh, yeah, I know

I was just sayin' since im addicted to Ultima like its meth, that the NES one isnt the same game even if it has the same name . You can definitely tell they wanted to make it as similar to the hit RPGs as possible instead of letting its Ultima-ness reign supreme.

[Daria]

Oh, yeah, I know

I was just sayin' since im addicted to Ultima like its meth, that the NES one isnt the same game even if it has the same name . You can definitely tell they wanted to make it as similar to the hit RPGs as possible instead of letting its Ultima-ness reign supreme.

It's ok. You like the NES version of Ultima 3. Which makes you awesome in my book. :P

[Arkhan]

It's ok. You like the NES version of Ultima 3. Which makes you awesome in my book. :P

yes, compared to the DOS one with 4 colors, no music, and equally robotic dialogue ... why not play the NES one!


ever try the MSX Ultima IV? Its in Japanese but its prettttty awesome.

[j_factor]

Why's it crazy talk! What, do you prefer the CGA graphics of the DOS one? I dunno about you but 4 colors (black, gray, teal, magenta) and no music aint my bag.

Sure you can add the EGA patch w/ wavetable music, but that is a fairly recent addition (fan made) so it doesn't exactly count.

so that'd leave the other old computer versions. The C64 could POSSIBLY be said to be better, if you play it on a C128 and experience the SID music, and are ok with disk swapping like mad.

The NES/MSX one condensed the commands down into menus smoothly, kept the geography and story the same, and spiffed things up graphically. Plus the music is pretty catchy.

The MSX even did that for Ultima IV. A pretty nice PC port on 3.5" disks with no irritating swap fest to be had.... and MUSIC! The PC one didn't get music til someone made that VGA patch.

and the C64 version had no music unless it was on a C128.... so...!!!!

SMS/NES/MSX did ultima 3 and 4 justice!

....and dropped the ball completely with Ultima V. Oh sweet lord was it awful.

Uh... I don't know why you even brought up DOS. DOS games of that era sucked ass in general, and they are the worst versions of Ultima III and IV. There are other ports of Ultima III that are better. In particular, the Amiga and Atari ST ports were preferable, due to supporting mouse input. They were also on a single disk, so no swapping. Aside from those, there's a much later Macintosh version with upgraded graphics and sound, although it kind of doesn't count. I think there might be an FM Towns version as well.

The NES version of Ultima III isn't terrible by any means, but it's kind of... weird.

And by the way, Ultima III for C64 has the full music on a regular C64. The C128 didn't even exist when Ultima III came out. You're thinking of Ultima V.

[kupomogli]

The NES version of Ultima III isn't terrible by any means, but it's kind of... weird.

But it's got that one place where you can be cheap and raise all your stats to max and have a godlike Ranger class.

I've never cheated on Ultima Exodus by using a Game Genie, but I sure created a lot of characters, characters who started with 100gp which I took from them gave to my main team and then deleted. Rock, Paper, Scissors was also cool, who doesn't love a completely random game where you bet an amount of money and get the same amount and have a 33% chance of both winning and losing?

I enjoyed it back then, probably wouldn't much so now, but I couldn't say, haven't played it in a long time. I know I did like Quest of the Avatar more. False Prophet on PC and SNES is better than both.

[Arkhan]

Uh... I don't know why you even brought up DOS. DOS games of that era sucked ass in general, and they are the worst versions of Ultima III and IV. There are other ports of Ultima III that are better. In particular, the Amiga and Atari ST ports were preferable, due to supporting mouse input.

I dont know as far as DOS being the worst. Its a moot point basically.

Its not like the graphics were superb on ANY of them since they're all so old, and the color choices for some variants are just bad all around. Its basically the same exact graphics on each machine displayed in that machines color palette. Its splitting hairs really. Choose your favorite color. If you were used to your specific computer at the time, no other machine offered more than what you were already getting. Except for maybe the allure of some bright ass coppertones if you werent already on an Amiga

What the DOS one lacks in color pizazz, it makes up for in being the smoothest playing of the old computers. ... which still doesn't help with those awful colors. and in the end once you add the EGA / VGA patches and wavetable music to the DOS ones, they quickly become the best of the computer ones. Thank god for fan patches!

I never liked the addition of mouse input for the tile-based Ultima games. It seems kind of counter intuitive, like when they moused up Temple of Apshai. Doesnt feel right. For me at least. They really MOUSED it up. man. that was the corniest joke of the year.

the Ultima 1 for PC is awesome...

Aside from those, there's a much later Macintosh version with upgraded graphics and sound, although it kind of doesn't count. I think there might be an FM Towns version as well.

Yeah that recent mac port/upgrade was very awesome, especially since it had all the old games tilesets available in the options. But yeah im only counting commercial releases from OSI.

I have mixed feelings about the FM Towns games. That Ultima trilogy set is pretty cool but something about the graphics urks me sometimes. They're great if you have an FM towns, but otherwise aren't monumental enough to be sought out. Just like how any one computer version isn't supremely better than the other....


Now on the otherhand, the NES/MSX one:

The NES version of Ultima III isn't terrible by any means, but it's kind of... weird.

I always thought the graphics were nice, the animations were smooth, and the music was well done. It has it's weird-quirky-consolized style too, which ended up working out nice. It offers the same exact story and experience as the PC counterparts but brings a different approach to the game. It's at times more playable, and visually/sonically offers much more.

And by the way, Ultima III for C64 has the full music on a regular C64. The C128 didn't even exist when Ultima III came out. You're thinking of Ultima V.

Oh. I only ever played them all on a C128 and since I played Ultima V the most, when I tried it on a C64 and got no music, I figured they all were like that.

Theyre all too brutal to sit through on the C= machines anyway. The disk swaps are too much for me. Thats what I get for being born in '88

False Prophet on PC and SNES is better than both.

Try it on the C64. You'll want to end your life.

But it's got that one place where you can be cheap and raise all your stats to max and have a godlike Ranger class.

They all have that!

[tom]

Ultima series is best on Apple ][, Atari 8-bit and later on C-64/128...in that order. After Ultima 6 the series sucked. Except Ultima Underworld series.

I agree with the other one, USA RPGs on consoles were kinda weird, I never enjoyed them, be it Wizardry, Ultima, Gold box or whatever....they always played like a cut-down verion.

[tom]

How can anyone possibly make that generalization?!? Seriously...blows my friggin' mind.

Ridiculous statements FTW!

Exactly, but the same goes for Zoltor NES generalization. Way ridiculous statement. Seriously...blows my friggin' mind too...Although I don't have a friggin mind, but an excellent one!

As I said before, NES = more quantity before quality. SMS, lesser library, better games, especially the European-only releases....you have to play those before you can judge.....(watching 2 minutes on youTube doesn't count)

Even the packing with SMS was better, sturdy plastic like Genesis games.

.

[Arkhan]

Ultima series is best on Apple ][, Atari 8-bit and later on C-64/128...in that order. After Ultima 6 the series sucked. Except Ultima Underworld series.

They're the same damn game on those 3 machines. Depending on how you feel about each ones color palette....if you made them all black and white you'd barely be able to tell the difference!

And, what was wrong with Ultima VII!? Yeah Pagan was an incomplete clusterfark, but Ultima VII, man!

8 had such a nice setting and story, but the gameplay was clunky, and there were some obviously rushed parts.

At least they perfected Ultima VII-IX's general game style with Ultima Online.

I agree with the other one, USA RPGs on consoles were kinda weird, I never enjoyed them, be it Wizardry, Ultima, Gold box or whatever....they always played like a cut-down verion.

man, the SNES ultimas were all gimped, and Pool of Radiance on NES was awful

[Ricochet]

I've always preferred the Master System's sound. The square waves just seem fuller and prettier than NES's tinselled waveforms. I recommend anyone pull up Ys on an emulator, and, just listening to the title screen, tell me there's any music more beautiful on an 8-bit platform.

[Arkhan]

I've always preferred the Master System's sound. The square waves just seem fuller and prettier than NES's tinselled waveforms. I recommend anyone pull up Ys on an emulator, and, just listening to the title screen, tell me there's any music more beautiful on an 8-bit platform.

Ys is nice, but ah... are we counting the MSX? or the Japanese SMS w/ FM?....

I could think of a fistful of stuff that trounces the western SMS Ys music

8-bit platform wise.

[tom]

Sure, the 'western' C64 SID stuff is always nicer than NES music.

[Ed Oscuro]

Just hopping in here to note that Tom's trolling is getting pretty desperate.

[tom]

Just hopping in here to note that Tom's trolling is getting pretty desperate.

Nice try but no cigar, keep on hopping.

[Arkhan]

Sure, the 'western' C64 SID stuff is always nicer than NES music.

I wasn't talking about the SID stuff, numbnuts.

I was more talkin about the MSX's PSG tunes.

Sa Zi Ri comes to mind.

then if you factor in the SCC chip or FM, its even better.

not saying Ys is bad, just there are better things.

The FM Ys is pretty jawesome though.

[tom]

I wasn't talking about the SID stuff, numbnuts.
.

So what, I was, 8-bit platform wise.

Namecalling always the first sign of 'getting kinda desperate', don't you think?