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Thread: PS3 at 24 million units sold, PSP 57 million

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbid View Post
    the ps2 had well over 50% of the total market share, sony expected to at least hold serve with their language and actions before the ps3 launch

    and i use the term failure relative to a companys expectations, nobody at sega figured the saturn would run away with the 32bit market
    Sony didn't have 50% of the market share right out of the gate with the PS1 or PS2, those achievements required specific variables that the Sony hasn't been able to coordinate with the PS3.

    I think we'll see a pretty dynamic shift once they can knock the price down another $100 and/or get PS2 BC back into the unit.

    I don't expect them to overtake the Wii or 360 in the US market in the short-term, but we'll probably see sales increase by several hundred percent and more devs come on board with 3rd party software at brick & mortar and via the PSN which will help the PS3 subsist in the long-term. And much like the PS1 and PS2, when Microsoft and Nintendo announce their next gen devices, we'll probably see another year or so of PS3 still picking up decent hardware sales before Sony follows suit.

    If the goal is to get on track with a "profitable" console for the next 5-6 years it appears that they're on track.

    Did they "fail" at achieving whatever marketplace "expectations" came with being console king in the last generation brought with them? Sure, that's a fair assessment ... but this generation is hardly over, Sony's still in for the long haul, and with a totally different management team in place for the Playstation brand no less.

    If PSP has proven anything it's that they've learned how to quietly "subsist" alongside an industry juggernaut (DS) and make a profitable go of it.

    I wouldn't call PS3 "failure" until Sony releases some type of press statement informing their loyal user-base that they're discontinuing the Playstation brand and going into 3rd party software development for Microsoft and Nintendo.

    And really ... what developer doesn't at the very least have the intention of succeeding in the marketplace. I'm sure even Sega hoped that the Saturn would be the next big thing.
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    Think it's probably time to bring the Wii HD into the conversation. People already bought the Wii, most of these people will have the PS3 and/or the 360. Once the motion sensing comes out on Sony's and Microsoft's systems, the Wii will have nothing about it that is superior to the other systems as the only gimmick it has is being used by the other two.

    This will be when Nintendo decides to bring out its next console which will probably be a failure. The way things are going I see the PS3 lasting atleast 10 years and if a non RRoD 360 comes out, same thing. However, how many people are going to go and buy the Wii HD with graphics that can be compared to systems like the PS3 and 360 at $400 because it's a new system, only to be pretty sure that when the next gen comes out, there will be another Nintendo system lined up alongside Sony's and Microsoft's systems? I say $400 because the Wii right now at $250 being nothing more than a Gamecube with a gimmick controller is quite a bit overpriced and has been ever since it was announced. You'll be able to get Sony and Microsoft's gimmicks and still play the same games, so why buy another system? The exclusives really won't cut it for how few Nintendo actually releases that are good.

    Also. How many people other than completely die hard Nintendo fans or most casual gamers will buy the system after the complete failure of the Wii when it comes to both third party and first party support. Hopefully people realize that even Nintendo hasn't supported the Wii as much as Sony and Microsoft support their consoles. I'd like to see that shitty company go back to where they belong. Where handheld is the only device worth getting(well, they're already there, but some people don't realize it.)
    Last edited by kupomogli; 08-04-2009 at 09:07 AM.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonicwolf View Post
    The PSP sales figures are pretty impressive. No handheld has ever managed to get that far against Nintendo.
    Yeah that's an impressive feat, but Sony will probably increase their PSP sales quite a bit with the PSPGo. People will bitch about the price, but it'll still sell good numbers I'm sure. Personally I think they should concentrate on releasing more AAA games for the current PSP and not worry about launching a new model, but I guess Sony feels they have to go after the ipod touch now?
    Last edited by duffmanth; 08-04-2009 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Think it's probably time to bring the Wii HD into the conversation. People already bought the Wii, most of these people will have the PS3 and/or the 360. Once the motion sensing comes out on Sony's and Microsoft's systems, the Wii will have nothing about it that is superior to the other systems as the only gimmick it has is being used by the other two.

    This will be when Nintendo decides to bring out its next console which will probably be a failure. The way things are going I see the PS3 lasting atleast 10 years and if a non RRoD 360 comes out, same thing. However, how many people are going to go and buy the Wii HD with graphics that can be compared to systems like the PS3 and 360 at $400 because it's a new system, only to be pretty sure that when the next gen comes out, there will be another Nintendo system lined up alongside Sony's and Microsoft's systems? I say $400 because the Wii right now at $250 being nothing more than a Gamecube with a gimmick controller is quite a bit overpriced and has been ever since it was announced. You'll be able to get Sony and Microsoft's gimmicks and still play the same games, so why buy another system? The exclusives really won't cut it for how few Nintendo actually releases that are good.

    Also. How many people other than completely die hard Nintendo fans or most casual gamers will buy the system after the complete failure of the Wii when it comes to both third party and first party support. Hopefully people realize that even Nintendo hasn't supported the Wii as much as Sony and Microsoft support their consoles. I'd like to see that shitty company go back to where they belong. Where handheld is the only device worth getting(well, they're already there, but some people don't realize it.)
    The bottom line is the Wii has been a novelty piece of shit since launch, and that novelty (mostly around the motion sensing) I think has run its course. The Wii's software lineup is complete shit aside from the usual great 1st party games. A cheap sticker price and useless peripherals don't always equal a great console experience, and I think a lot of people are starting to realize that.

    I think what happened with the PS3 was Sony had the best intentions of putting out the most powerful and cutting edge console they could, but I think they got a little over ambitious with the PS3 and costs got somewhat out of control, and hopefully they've learned some lessons from that?! However, I still firmly believe the PS3's best days have yet to come. The PS3 game library is on par with the 360 and destroys the Wii's software lineup, it's a very reliable console, a price drop is right around the corner, and Sony has HUGE games coming in the next 6-10 months along with more kick ass titles going into greatest hits I'm sure.

    I think there's going to be a major change in the balance of power in the console wars over the next 1-2 years because I think the Wii is already starting to burn out, the 360 will probably continue to sell steadily, but it doesn't have the amount of AAA coming that PS3 has coming. As far as I can see, the PS3 is the only system that has the legs and vast software lineup that will be around in 5 years, cuz the Wii sure won't be and MS will have probably long pulled the plug on the 360 by then.
    Last edited by duffmanth; 08-04-2009 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Think it's probably time to bring the Wii HD into the conversation.
    No, it isn't. Straw manning never makes for a good conversation. Jeez, Sony can't even capture 25% of the market of their own threads...


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    Another way of looking at it is, what if in say 3 years time Nintendo and Microsoft bring out "next-gen" consoles and Sony stays with the PS3? from the mass market point of view (who doesn't pay attention or care about the industry) they will see these consoles as new and therefore 'better' then the previous gen. Sony and PS3 could look like they're standing still and are outdated, possibly forcing Sony to release the PS4 early to stay with the competition. Just something to consider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    Jeez, Sony can't even capture 25% of the market of their own threads...
    Forum quote of the year!
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffmanth View Post
    The bottom line is the Wii has been a novelty piece of shit since launch, and that novelty (mostly around the motion sensing) I think has runs its course. The Wii's software lineup is complete shit aside from the usual great 1st party games. A cheap sticker price and useless peripherals don't always equal a great console experience, and I think a lot of people are starting to realize that.

    I think what happened with the PS3 was Sony had the best intentions of putting out the most powerful and cutting edge console they could, but I think they got a little over ambitious with the PS3 and costs got somewhat out of control, and hopefully they've learned some lessons from that?! However, I still firmly believe the PS3's best days have yet to come. The PS3 game library is on par with the 360 and destroys the Wii's software lineup, it's a very reliable console, a price drop is right around the corner, and Sony has HUGE games coming in the next 6-10 months along with more kick ass titles going into greatest hits I'm sure.

    I think there's going to be a major change in the balance of power in the console wars over the next 1-2 years because I think the Wii is already starting to burn out, the 360 will probably continue to sell steadily, but it doesn't have the amount of AAA coming that PS3 has coming. As far as I can see, the PS3 is the only system that has the legs and vast software lineup that will be around in 5 years, cuz the Wii sure won't be and MS will have probably long pulled the plug on the 360 by then.
    You hit the nail on the head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duffmanth View Post
    The bottom line is the Wii has been a novelty piece of shit since launch, and that novelty (mostly around the motion sensing) I think has run its course. The Wii's software lineup is complete shit aside from the usual great 1st party games. A cheap sticker price and useless peripherals don't always equal a great console experience, and I think a lot of people are starting to realize that.

    I think what happened with the PS3 was Sony had the best intentions of putting out the most powerful and cutting edge console they could, but I think they got a little over ambitious with the PS3 and costs got somewhat out of control, and hopefully they've learned some lessons from that?! However, I still firmly believe the PS3's best days have yet to come. The PS3 game library is on par with the 360 and destroys the Wii's software lineup, it's a very reliable console, a price drop is right around the corner, and Sony has HUGE games coming in the next 6-10 months along with more kick ass titles going into greatest hits I'm sure.

    I think there's going to be a major change in the balance of power in the console wars over the next 1-2 years because I think the Wii is already starting to burn out, the 360 will probably continue to sell steadily, but it doesn't have the amount of AAA coming that PS3 has coming. As far as I can see, the PS3 is the only system that has the legs and vast software lineup that will be around in 5 years, cuz the Wii sure won't be and MS will have probably long pulled the plug on the 360 by then.
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    I think there's going to be a major change in the balance of power in the console wars over the next 1-2 years because I think the Wii is already starting to burn out, the 360 will probably continue to sell steadily, but it doesn't have the amount of AAA coming that PS3 has coming. As far as I can see, the PS3 is the only system that has the legs and vast software lineup that will be around in 5 years, cuz the Wii sure won't be and MS will have probably long pulled the plug on the 360 by then.
    My friend, I know the kool-aid can be strong, but objectively, nobody but Sony "fanboys" are going to have that kind of "glass-half-full" analysis based on the reality of the numbers. If you think the Wii is a "novelty" that is "already starting to burn out" (right -- just watch the sales numbers for "Wii Sports Resort"), and that in 5 years Sony is somehow going to have a free road to reclaiming its market share with a console that continues to languish against its competitors right now, I think you're way off-base. In 5 years Nintendo will have a "Wii HD" -- good luck trying to outsell that console with a PS3 that's been on the market for many years and has shown few signs of life compared to what Nintendo and MS have done. Also, the 360 is supposed to be around more than 5 years (didn't someone just come out and claim 2015 as the approximate start point of the next MS console?), it already has a deeper game lineup than the PS3 and costs less. I don't really have a horse in this race but Sony is up against it, no question, and they've dug themselves a hole that's going to take a long, long time -- and likely huge missteps by their competitors -- to get back to where they were positioned last-gen.
    Last edited by phantomfriar; 08-04-2009 at 11:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duffmanth View Post
    The bottom line is the Wii has been a novelty piece of shit since launch, and that novelty (mostly around the motion sensing) I think has run its course. The Wii's software lineup is complete shit aside from the usual great 1st party games. A cheap sticker price and useless peripherals don't always equal a great console experience, and I think a lot of people are starting to realize that.

    I think what happened with the PS3 was Sony had the best intentions of putting out the most powerful and cutting edge console they could, but I think they got a little over ambitious with the PS3 and costs got somewhat out of control, and hopefully they've learned some lessons from that?! However, I still firmly believe the PS3's best days have yet to come. The PS3 game library is on par with the 360 and destroys the Wii's software lineup, it's a very reliable console, a price drop is right around the corner, and Sony has HUGE games coming in the next 6-10 months along with more kick ass titles going into greatest hits I'm sure.

    I think there's going to be a major change in the balance of power in the console wars over the next 1-2 years because I think the Wii is already starting to burn out, the 360 will probably continue to sell steadily, but it doesn't have the amount of AAA coming that PS3 has coming. As far as I can see, the PS3 is the only system that has the legs and vast software lineup that will be around in 5 years, cuz the Wii sure won't be and MS will have probably long pulled the plug on the 360 by then.
    Way I see it, the "bottom line" is not usually 12 lines of one-sided, half-educated, social media-fed observation combined with wild, baseless speculation.

    Nail on the head, not so much. You've done something more along the lines of smashing the piece of wood as loudly as you can to make everyone think you hit the nail.

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    the only time a console has ever made a comeback was the snes over the genesis. sega outsold nintendo in 91, 92, and 93. nintendo managed a comeback with aggressive pricing, a barrage of exclusive software, and missteps from sega. Even after the alleged 70% reduction in production cost of the PS3, i do not see a 70% price drop... nor a 50% drop to put them in line with the 360 and wii. the exclusives are coming in at a trickle. the missteps from MS and Nintendo are there to take advantage of, but sony will likely not take advantage of the openings

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    I'm not saying the Wii is tanking right now, or will in the near future, but it's starting to level off and really level off in Japan. Most of the people who are buying Wii Sports Resort are probably already existng Wii owners, and I doubt that game alone has resulted in a bunch of people going to buy a Wii solely for that game. Of course the 360 has a deeper game lineup and costs less, it's got a year head start on the PS3 and has sold more as a result.

    All I'm saying about the Wii is that people are getting sick and tired of waiting around for good games to come out for it. I know several people who have turfed it, or don't even touch the thing anymore.
    Last edited by duffmanth; 08-04-2009 at 12:42 PM.

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    Man, who the heck cares about this crap? It's not going to make a big difference in a few years when we're buying everything for cheap?
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    More personal opinion than speculation. BTW I never claimed to be hitting the nail on the head!

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    If you're going to get every good game, Wii does actually have plenty to offer. When I see people discussing Wii, all they discuss is the shovelware and the Wii _____ series, turning a blind eye to everything else.
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    I like the Magnavox Odyssey best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbid View Post
    the only time a console has ever made a comeback was the snes over the genesis. sega outsold nintendo in 91, 92, and 93. nintendo managed a comeback with aggressive pricing, a barrage of exclusive software, and missteps from sega. Even after the alleged 70% reduction in production cost of the PS3, i do not see a 70% price drop... nor a 50% drop to put them in line with the 360 and wii. the exclusives are coming in at a trickle. the missteps from MS and Nintendo are there to take advantage of, but sony will likely not take advantage of the openings
    I don't think that they'll overtake Nintendo or Microsoft in this generation in the US in terms of lifetime console sales.

    While they're close to MS by a decent margin, and they may overtake them in the short term (month by month) once the gap in price difference between systems normalizes, they're too far in the hole since launch numerically to pull ahead. It'll be a shock to me if they overtake MS long-term and a downright impossibility for them to catch the Wii.

    What I DO think that they're absolutely capable of doing is beginning to manufacture a profitable system and over the course of the next 6-7 years (or however long they keep the unit in the market) make up for the money that they've willingly lost in the early years of hardware sales.

    Remember, Nintendo trailed in console hardware sales last gen, but avoided bleeding money in the manufacturing costs ... they wound up rather comfortable (healthy DS and GBA sales notwithstanding) despite coming out in last pace with units sold.

    Microsoft are going to be in a hole financially from hardware sales this gen due to the reported billions already lost in extended warranty/repair/re-design/replacement programs.

    Sony is very good at re-designing hardware to minimize cost - PS1, PS2, PS3, and PSP have all seen numerous hardware profiles specifically designed to lower the production cost of the unit, and Sony has generally done an excellent job of passing along those savings to consumers.

    Again, I see no reason why a profitable PS3 in the market for the remainder of this console generation isn't possible. Sony is trailing but they're healthy enough to stick it out and make the best of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetaWolf47 View Post
    If you're going to get every good game, Wii does actually have plenty to offer. When I see people discussing Wii, all they discuss is the shovelware and the Wii _____ series, turning a blind eye to everything else.
    I agree with this.

    Coincidentally the same seems to happen to the PS3 and on a regular basis, but worse, people say the system has nothing good which is a load of crock.

    The minute one system starts doing better than the other everyone jumps ship to the other console. It would really be best that all do well and we reap the benefits of competition.

    I must admit though, I wouldn't mind seeing Microsoft go belly up as I think they have nothing good to offer the gaming community. A couple of years ago I would have been agreed with, but not really anymore.

    Compare the free content you get with all systems and you will see why I don't care for Microsoft's stance of "charge for EVERYTHING, closed architecture".

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