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Thread: Is anyone else here stockpiling CRT televisions ?

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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus Moonsight View Post
    Still on the lookout for a 30ish Widescreen CRT HDTV
    I love my 30" Sony. There are 2 types of widescreen sony tubes though, just so you know. The best of the two has "Super Fine Pitch" stamped on the front of the chassis somewhere. These are usually a dark charcoal color and may be of the XBR line. Most of these don't have a digital tuner built in, so you'll need a converter box if you receive your programming from an antenna. These Super Fine Pitch sets come in 30 and 34 inch sizes only.

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    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) Raedon's Avatar
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    I'm a huge fan of the Sony Trinitron line of TVs. In the last video production studio I ran, there was a small Trinitron from the 1980's that was abused to Hell but still had a fantastic picture.

    I've got a 2001 27" Sony Trinitron ... they all look the same regardless of size. I got it at a pawn in 2002 and it has just a great picture.

    I don't really know if the flat screen FD Trinitrons are any good. I know Sony and JVC were the last to get out of the CRT market and had several HDTV CRT monitors. Sony Trinitrons came in Super Fine Pitch 1440x1080i, Hi-Scan 853x1080i, WEGA 16:9 Enhanced 480i, and WEGA 480i at the very end.




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    Quote Originally Posted by nebrazca78 View Post
    I was under the impression that the government would never allow a product with 4 lbs. of lead (average TV) as well as mercury be produced.
    I don't see why not, there's lead and mercury in compact fluorescent lightbulbs and they're being pushed to replace traditional lightbulbs which don't contain any lead or mercury. Sure it looks good to save on electricity usage, but most people will just chuck them into the trash and landfills will still be polluted.

    What should be pushed if anything are LED lightbulbs as they are lead and mercury free, use less electricity than CFLs, and last much longer. The main reason they're not so widely produced is that they're bad for business. They cost more to produce and last much longer than CFLs so companies won't make as much money if they make LEDs instead.

    This isn't really related to TVs, but it still bugs me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raedon View Post
    I've got a 2001 27" Sony Trinitron ... they all look the same regardless of size. I got it at a pawn in 2002 and it has just a great picture.
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!

    We had the same damn one for six years. It was horrible. Blinking black picture with a permanent green tinge. What a piece.

    I wish it worked right, its just using up space in our house... Also, it weighs a LOT.
    DERP

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    Ryu Hayabusa (Level 16) Raedon's Avatar
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    lol! I shall douse it with holy water when I pull my collection out of storage. First thing!

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    The power of Asian Transvestite Jesus compels you?

    Thanks for the info on the Sony widescreen tubes. I haven't seen a single one yet, but I'll keep that distinction in mind. Last one I came across was the 32" Phillips that many retail stores had a few years back. I balked, because I wasn't sure of the quality. I kinda regret it now though. It was only $200 and it would have been a decent tide over. Oh well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    I don't see why not, there's lead and mercury in compact fluorescent lightbulbs and they're being pushed to replace traditional lightbulbs which don't contain any lead or mercury. Sure it looks good to save on electricity usage, but most people will just chuck them into the trash and landfills will still be polluted.

    What should be pushed if anything are LED lightbulbs as they are lead and mercury free, use less electricity than CFLs, and last much longer. The main reason they're not so widely produced is that they're bad for business. They cost more to produce and last much longer than CFLs so companies won't make as much money if they make LEDs instead.

    This isn't really related to TVs, but it still bugs me.
    they arn't very bright and the light they emmit is very displeaseing. though i have to admit my experence with them is limited.

    my Samsung CRT HDTV gives me the best picture i've ever sceen even with old games. it has the same ghosting and motion problems you get with older games run on a hdtv but in some way i like the sharp vibrant picture more then even on my sony RGB PVM.

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    I don't have much of a stockpile of them (not much extra space to store them) but i do have a 17" Sylvania, a GoldStar, a 25" Samsung, and a 26" HITACHI.

    And truth be told, we have one of those 36" sonys upstairs... It is murderous, but the hitachi actually weighs almost as much

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    Strawberry (Level 2) Compute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    What should be pushed if anything are LED lightbulbs as they are lead and mercury free, ...
    You may want some kind of assurance from the mfr before assuming that the bulbs were assembled using lead-free solder. The few vendors I have asked have been unable to tell me if the bulbs they sold were in fact lead free. Those bulbs were not touted as being lead-free, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    I don't see why not, there's lead and mercury in compact fluorescent lightbulbs and they're being pushed to replace traditional lightbulbs which don't contain any lead or mercury. Sure it looks good to save on electricity usage, but most people will just chuck them into the trash and landfills will still be polluted.

    What should be pushed if anything are LED lightbulbs as they are lead and mercury free, use less electricity than CFLs, and last much longer. The main reason they're not so widely produced is that they're bad for business. They cost more to produce and last much longer than CFLs so companies won't make as much money if they make LEDs instead.

    This isn't really related to TVs, but it still bugs me.
    I'm not sure if the amounts of contaminents are high enough to pose a threat with the CFL bulbs. The non-compact fluorescent bulbs are much bigger and have been around for decades and are still used for most commercial lighting. Nobody rasied a stink about those. It seems like they would have more toxins in them than a CFL. I know a lot of people who purposely shatter them while throwing them in dumpsters.

    CFL's can actually lower the amount of mercury being released into the environmnet because it takes less coal at the plant to light them. Burning coal releases mercury.

    Your right about LEDs though.

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    What is your opinion of the 34 inch Panasonic Tau? I have always loved Panasonic (I currently have a 1997 Gaoo, still works great but I need "insurance" for classic gaming). It is $275 though (too high a price?).

    Another option I have is a KV-32FS13 FD Trinitron WEGA TV for $200, but as a rule I tend to not trust Sony (I was burned by a Sony CD player back in 1992 and I can't seem to trust them again). Your takes?

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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
    What is your opinion of the 34 inch Panasonic Tau? I have always loved Panasonic (I currently have a 1997 Gaoo, still works great but I need "insurance" for classic gaming). It is $275 though (too high a price?).

    Another option I have is a KV-32FS13 FD Trinitron WEGA TV for $200, but as a rule I tend to not trust Sony (I was burned by a Sony CD player back in 1992 and I can't seem to trust them again). Your takes?
    Working as a corporate A/V technician, I use a lot of professional gear. Sony makes the best monitors out there. 80% of the studio cameras we use are Sony as well. Sony is really ingrained in the professional side of television and video, which a lot of consumers may not realize. Reliability aside, I'd buy a Sony TV. Their audio division may not be worth a shit, but they know their video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet Conscript View Post
    they arn't very bright and the light they emmit is very displeaseing. though i have to admit my experence with them is limited.
    I'm also annoyed with CFLs because someone I know is visually impaired and the light from CFLs give her headaches for some reason, and since traditional lightbulbs are going to be eliminated within a few years this could pose a big problem for her.

    CFLs also emit UV light which can damage art work among other things. There's also potential health problems that can be caused by long term exposure to the UV light, especially if you remain close to the bulbs while they're operating(like in a lamp that's right beside you). That's something else to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Compute View Post
    You may want some kind of assurance from the mfr before assuming that the bulbs were assembled using lead-free solder. The few vendors I have asked have been unable to tell me if the bulbs they sold were in fact lead free. Those bulbs were not touted as being lead-free, however.
    I'll have to check some packaging again, there were a couple of LED bulbs in Wal-mart and I know the packaging said they were mercury free but I'm not sure about lead. I thought they were but I'll have to check again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Pimpdaddy View Post
    I'm not sure if the amounts of contaminents are high enough to pose a threat with the CFL bulbs. The non-compact fluorescent bulbs are much bigger and have been around for decades and are still used for most commercial lighting. Nobody rasied a stink about those. It seems like they would have more toxins in them than a CFL. I know a lot of people who purposely shatter them while throwing them in dumpsters.

    CFL's can actually lower the amount of mercury being released into the environmnet because it takes less coal at the plant to light them. Burning coal releases mercury.

    Your right about LEDs though.
    The thing is not all power generating stations are coal powered, plenty are nuclear or Hydro-electric. If you get power from a plant that's nuclear or Hydro-electric you won't be saving any mercury emissions. But CFLs get worn out and replaced far more frequently than monitors so they'll create a ton more waste. And though most bulbs just get thrown out in the regular trash(as you've mentioned), they aren't supposed to be disposed that way. I'm currently saving up a big box of old CFLs because they're actually supposed to be brought to the local hazardous waste depot to be properly disposed of, just like old paint or old electronics. It's a pain to have to save all that up, but it's not worth a trip to just drop off a single bulb whenever they wear out. Most people just don't care so they throw them out in the regular trash anyway.

    I should point out that most of the vaporized mercury becomes fused with the glass by the time the bulb wears out, but if you accidentally drop a bulb that's new, then you'd have a bigger problem of contamination in your home. It may not be all that much, but it's more than with traditional lightbulbs.

    I'm convinced that the main reason why CFLs are being pushed is because municipalities can't keep up with increased demand for electricity, and rather than find a way to produce more, they find ways for people to use less. It's not really because of environmental reasons.

    There's articles on Wikipedia that go into further detail with the pros and cons of CFLs and LEDs, I don't want to read through them again but most of the info is there with references.

  15. #65
    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    CFLs are hopefully just an intermediate step towards better devices. Lead joints in LEDs are an issue I didn't know of.

    Of course, both of these are still better solutions than lightbulbs, from a pure pollution standpoint - IF you dispose of them properly. CFLs have a much longer lifespan than lightbulbs and so you won't be tossing nearly as many units. LEDs have a longer lifespan still. You just have to be able to recycle them. With any luck, you'll be able to take them back the day you go get some more to help replenish your stocks.

    The light can indeed be bad. I have seen some CFL lights with terrible light wavelength output, very blue. CFL light that's more blue than an incadescent is fine; nowadays when I walk into a room with incadescent it feels rather too orange and dim. As has been said before - the shorter wavelength of the blue light makes it easier to see things. In the summer it's also nicer because they aren't creating the sheer amount of heat of incadescents (too bad we don't have any bulbs appropriate for a chandelier).

    What designers really need to do is create bulbs with varying wavelengths, and some with light closer to the sun than we've seen before. In a ground-floor room in my house, there are small incadescents in a chandelier and a LCD monitor with its color temperature set low (more orange, more "warm" like the sun). This is a decent color setup for that place because the artificial light doesn't contrast with natural light. However, the CFLs don't currently replicate it (and one strange-sounding, but perhaps understandable, objection to CFLs is that the bulbs aren't found in as pleasing shapes as you can find incadescents - CFLs in a chandelier look strange).

    Back to CRTs for a moment:

    Sony Trinitron tubes were made with a resolution at least as high as 1920x1440 (yes, you read that right - that's the resolution of the P992, a Dell-branded Sony Trinitron from early this decade).

    Trinitrons that have a color tint may just need to be adjusted. Now, the Sony / Dell P992 is a computer monitor, so it may be different than a TV, but its settings can be adjusted via WinDAS (Digital Alignment Software) software by plugging an ECS cable into your computer's RS-232 port and then into the (usually hidden and covered) data port of the monitor. The P992 has this; I found mine (although still waiting on the cable sold from this place; they also have instructions on doing this).

    Basically, instead of complaining that your television has a terrible picture, hunt down the service manual and see how you can adjust the output to be more correct.

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    I've got a 32" Panasonic 16:9 which I bought new about 4 years ago. It's a pretty good TV, it's just that it weighs so much (and takes up a lot of space) I have no idea if I'll be able to take it with me once I move. I also prefer LCDs in terms of power usage. If only they'd scale better :/
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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Most CFLs you buy in the store anymore aren't blue in the slightest. In fact our house is entirely CFL (or just flourescent) and none of the lights have a blue tint to them. With the exception of the "warming up" some of the bulbs require to get at full brightness, everything looks just as it did back in the incandescent days.

    In fact here's an article from NPR while detailing the dangers of CFL mercury, shows that the energy savings over a standard bulb contribute to overall less mercury in the environment.

    Here's the link.

    Here's the quote

    She says that even though fluorescent bulbs contain mercury, using them contributes less mercury to the environment than using regular incandescent bulbs. That's because they use less electricity — and coal-fired power plants are the biggest source of mercury emissions in the air.

    "The compact fluorescent light bulb is a product people can use to positively influence the environment to… prevent mercury emissions as well as greenhouse gas emissions. And it's something that we can do now — and it's extremely important that we do do it," Reed says. "And the positive message is, if you recycle them, if you dispose of them properly, then they're doing a world of good."
    And if you're concerned about the color temperature here's a quote from the same article that shows how to avoid the bluer bulbs.

    MYTH: CFLs have a harsh, cold light quality.

    Increasingly, this is less of an issue. Over the past few years, manufacturers have worked to provide a warmer color. Some people say they still notice a difference, but the gap is narrowing. For a warmer, white light, look for a color temperature of 2,700–3,000K on the package.
    According to this website here are average color temperatures of an.

    100-watt incandescent 2870
    40-watt incandescent 2500


    And as far as LED technology goes, it's way more expensive right now than standard CFLs or incandescent. And most of the home use ones produce the same bluish tint that people still accuse CFL's of producing. If you get a chance go to wal-mart and compare the lumen output of their LED bulbs compared to a CFL. They're nowhere close considering the price.

    Anyway what was this thread about again?
    Last edited by TheDomesticInstitution; 12-18-2009 at 05:26 PM.

  18. #68
    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Great digest of the facts TDI!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDomesticInstitution View Post
    Most CFLs you buy in the store anymore aren't blue in the slightest.
    I can corroborate that they've been improving greatly over the last year. My CFL horror story was from a random pack found at Goodwill (that somebody had opened and then promptly donated, no doubt because of the horrid color temperature) from Feit Electric that had very inappropriate color. Ironically the package touts the bulbs as "simulating natural light" inside a little orange sun graphic. Either a bad model or a bad sample. I have no idea how old those are, either, which may contribute to it.

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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Beware: Any bulb simulating natural light will be blue(ish). Sunlight is blue, although a lot bulbs that simulate natural light are not really near the 5000k range of real sunlight.
    Last edited by TheDomesticInstitution; 12-18-2009 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDomesticInstitution View Post
    I love my 30" Sony. There are 2 types of widescreen sony tubes though, just so you know. The best of the two has "Super Fine Pitch" stamped on the front of the chassis somewhere. These are usually a dark charcoal color and may be of the XBR line. Most of these don't have a digital tuner built in, so you'll need a converter box if you receive your programming from an antenna. These Super Fine Pitch sets come in 30 and 34 inch sizes only.
    The last Sony SFP sets as far as I know were:

    KD-34XBR960 (and kd-34xbr960n has extra screen shield making tube darker, 16:9 tube, 28ish" 4:3, 34" 16:9)

    KD-36XS955 (naturally N style, 4:3 tube, 36" 4:3, 33" 16:9)


    I personally own the KD-36XS955 as I got it on sale($999) for half the XBR(2k monies) at J&R and I was willing to give up PiP and firewire the XBR offered over the XS. I gain 8-9 inches on 4:3 content over the XBR and I only lose 1 inch on 16:9 content. I believe I purchased it right before the Xbox 360 launched in USA.

    They are sister televisions of each other and both 1080i sets (1440 red to red if you want to get technical, a lot better than the 800 on similiar samsung sets at the time). It's an amazing CRT television and I hope it lasts me for a long long time. Infact I'm about to go use my SNES PowerPak on it ^__^

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    That's pretty interesting, TDI. According to this it's actually around 5600, but yeah - very interesting. The main point of that page and this one is that florescent lights have an interrupted spectrum, i.e. it's not simply a single color. The spectrum is spread over a further range than with other sources of light (i.e. combustion of a single type of material). So lol, then you start talking about "color rendering index" or "apparent color temperature." Oh fun! So much for florescent - no wonder the film and photography industry has so much trouble with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jupitersj View Post
    The last Sony SFP sets as far as I know were:

    KD-34XBR960 (and kd-34xbr960n has extra screen shield making tube darker, 16:9 tube, 28ish" 4:3, 34" 16:9)
    There's one marked as a 34XBR970 on eBay for $200 right now. Still spendy for my tastes, considering that CRT won't be the last word in color reproduction at home forever, and the stuff I use 'em for gets by just as well (and even better) on smaller 4:3 tubes.

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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jupitersj View Post
    The last Sony SFP sets as far as I know were:

    KD-34XBR960 (and kd-34xbr960n has extra screen shield making tube darker, 16:9 tube, 28ish" 4:3, 34" 16:9)

    KD-36XS955 (naturally N style, 4:3 tube, 36" 4:3, 33" 16:9)


    I personally own the KD-36XS955 as I got it on sale($999) for half the XBR(2k monies) at J&R and I was willing to give up PiP and firewire the XBR offered over the XS. I gain 8-9 inches on 4:3 content over the XBR and I only lose 1 inch on 16:9 content. I believe I purchased it right before the Xbox 360 launched in USA.

    They are sister televisions of each other and both 1080i sets (1440 red to red if you want to get technical, a lot better than the 800 on similiar samsung sets at the time). It's an amazing CRT television and I hope it lasts me for a long long time. Infact I'm about to go use my SNES PowerPak on it ^__^
    Yeah, I believe they discontinued the 30 inch widescreen version late in the SFP incarnation. But they did make a 30. Looks like there were 2. Here's the chart detailing the models with Super Fine Pitch.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA


    I worked at Circuit City during this time, but we never got any of the SPF 4:3 sets in, so I never got a chance to play around with them. I would guess for gaming a 4:3 would work best for a lot of games. But some of the newer stuff you may want to pick up a 16:9 (again only in a 30 and 34).

    And as always children you need to remember Light Guns will not work on any of these CRT HD sets. No matter how hard you try.
    Last edited by TheDomesticInstitution; 12-18-2009 at 07:28 PM.

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    ServBot (Level 11) TheDomesticInstitution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    That's pretty interesting, TDI. According to this it's actually around 5600, but yeah - very interesting. The main point of that page and this one is that florescent lights have an interrupted spectrum, i.e. it's not simply a single color. The spectrum is spread over a further range than with other sources of light (i.e. combustion of a single type of material). So lol, then you start talking about "color rendering index" or "apparent color temperature." Oh fun! So much for florescent - no wonder the film and photography industry has so much trouble with it.

    That's why I said 5000k(ish), depending on which site you go to you'll get a slightly different answer. But yeah, while it may not be a "constant" light output, it's really really hard for a human eye to tell the difference. We even had to mix and match an incandescent and fluorescent in a fan recently, and you were hard press to tell the difference which was which.

    And as far as film and video goes, it's not that big of a deal. A lot of times the biggest thing is maybe getting a flicker from a light, but that's usually adjusted by changing the shutter speed. I use video quite a bit, and it's never really that much of a problem. And if you white balance properly (usually) the color looks fine.

    10 years ago when I was in film school, it was a little different though. There was a specific type of light called a KinoFlo, it was a flourescent and had a really greenish hue. It was only used in specific applications and we did have to watch our shutter speed when shooting 16mm or 35mm. In fact, here is a link to a student film I wrote(and helped design the set on) where you see these older style fluorescent lights and how they showed up on 16mm film. They're above the sinks and these particular lights are more blue. If you don't care to watch much of it you see them in a close up around the minute and twenty mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post

    There's one marked as a 34XBR970 on eBay for $200 right now. Still spendy for my tastes, considering that CRT won't be the last word in color reproduction at home forever, and the stuff I use 'em for gets by just as well (and even better) on smaller 4:3 tubes.
    The 970 was a marketing ploy by Sony to get people to spend more on an inferior tube using the XBR line's "prestige" success. It's not a true XBR or SFP. It is actually a replacement for the HS420 and has neither a SFP or memstick reader. It was really an underhanded move...


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDomesticInstitution View Post
    Yeah, I believe they discontinued the 30 inch widescreen version late in the SFP incarnation. But they did make a 30. Here's the chart detailing the models. Looks like there were 2.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA


    I worked at Circuit City during this time, but we never got any of the SPF 4:3 sets in, so I never got a chance to play around with them. I would guess for gaming a 4:3 would work best for a lot of games. But some of the newer stuff you may want to pick up a 16:9 (again only in a 30 and 34).

    And as always children you need to remember Light Guns will not work on any of these CRT HD sets. No matter how hard you try.
    Even though mine is 4:3 it's still a 1080i tube so you just get black bars on the top and bottom with highdef...works out to be 33" during widescreen content. Yeah, unfortunately gun games will not work on these SFP crt hdtv's because even though a tube is analog it is digital processing hardware.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Rickstilwell1's Avatar
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    I've got 3 CRTs. An 13" Amdek AV color monitor w/ mono speaker from probably the early 80s, a 19" Philips TV from around 2001, and a large woodgrain Magnavox console with stereo speakers from probably the late 70s or 80s. This one was my dad's and forget the screen measurement probably 32" or so.

    The smaller ones are chiollin' in my friend's shed and the big one I just brought home from there yesterday. I'm loving the new setup. I have my smaller Magnavox 15" HD flatscreen on top of it along with other pieces of equipment.

    My big screen Sharp 52" HD TV is being used by my friend.
    Last edited by Rickstilwell1; 12-20-2009 at 05:33 PM.
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
    I'm a collector, but only to a certain extent.
    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]



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