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Thread: Biggest failure of a console

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    M2 didn't financially destroy a company, though. 3DO sold the design to Panasonic for a boatload of money. Smartest thing they ever did, and probably responsible for keeping the company afloat. Bad move for Panasonic, but it didn't seem to effect them that much, since they're so big.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aswald View Post
    Because it deserved it.
    it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

    The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan View Post
    it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

    The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.
    It's pretty stupid that it has to draw power via the printer as a passthrough. This makes the printer a required part of computer, and it drove up the base cost to over $700. Not everyone wanted a printer. Also, on this side of the pond floppy disks were far more popular than datasettes (in general), but the Adam came with a cassette drive standard and the sold-separately floppy drive wasn't produced in large numbers. Not a great move there. Plus it doesn't have BASIC built-in, you have to load it off a tape. And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.
    This is the main reason I hate it. If you're lucky enough to find a working one, it probably won't be working long after you get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    It's pretty stupid that it has to draw power via the printer as a passthrough. This makes the printer a required part of computer, and it drove up the base cost to over $700. Not everyone wanted a printer. Also, on this side of the pond floppy disks were far more popular than datasettes (in general), but the Adam came with a cassette drive standard and the sold-separately floppy drive wasn't produced in large numbers. Not a great move there. Plus it doesn't have BASIC built-in, you have to load it off a tape. And from what I gather it had a high defect rate.
    yeah, but there was also Expansion Module 3, which was pretty cool, pretty useful, and pretty reliable...

    considering too that the stuff came out in early 80s, the flak it gets isn't sensible to me. Commodore's first wave of C64s and 1541s were pretty problematic too but noone hates on that as much

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    Jaguar. The games looked like 16 bit games, and the attempts Atari did at 3d were hideous. There was little to no reason to own one outside of Tempest 2000 or the later released AvP...But still, just two great titles and a decent Doom release.

    Also it killed Atari, so the Jag earned its position by being known for shitty games and killing its company.

    32x/Virtualboy would be a tie for second place. 32x was a waste of time, Sega would have done better by sticking to its VSP chips to compete with Super-FX than waste piles of money [and split its market] on a second addon. virtualboy was just flawed from the get-go. Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.

    3Do. This one is intermediate to me, it was a flop yes. But it also had a decent library of games, more so than the Jag. It had EA support aswell which showed up with a great version of Road Rash, Madden and Fifa. Aswell as good versions of Sf2, Return fire and Gex. It didnt live up to 3Dos expectations but it wasnt as horrible as the 32x or Jag.
    Last edited by Peonpiate; 06-08-2010 at 12:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peonpiate View Post
    32x/Virtualboy would be a tie for second place. 32x was a waste of time, Sega would have done better by sticking to its VSP chips to compete with Super-FX than waste piles of money [and split its market] on a second addon. virtualboy was just flawed from the get-go. Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.
    The VirtualBoy can't be considered a big failure because it didn't destroy Nintendo. Sure it was a disaster and had a sparse amount a games and very limited sales but so many other consoles have destroyed entire companies. Same for the 32X. Limited game library and sales but Sega was not totally destroyed by it.

    IMO, a console in the category of "Biggest Failure Ever" should have had immediate, devastating and long-lasting effects on the company which produced it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poofta! View Post
    The Dreamcast killed Sega's already damaged reputation AND ruined the company once and for all. I would have to say, because of that, the Dreamcast is the sing biggest company-affecting failure in hte industry, ever.


    That statement seems like it is from somebody who read something about the history *somewhere*....but was not actually there

    Sega's rep was damaged slightly from the Sega CD and 32X...and then the Saturn. The Dreamcast didn't kill Sega's rep. If anything, their rep was sour at the start. But, as the Dreamcast proved itself in the beginning, people started to believe in Sega again.

    As far as I recall, the Dreamcast had one of the best launches in history, and the system saw some of the greatest games ever created.

    People were actually sad that the system was cancelled as early as it was, and people to this day keep petitioning for a "Dreamcast 2" (which will mostly likely NEVER happen).

    If you can call that a failure of a console, I don't know what to tell you.

    Atari XE probably gets the spot in my book as the failed console. Not that it didn't have a GREAT library (I am a huge fan of the 800), but it just didn't work as a sell at the time.

    I remember the commercials in which Atari made the attempt to sway people away from the NES with this very dated console. There was no way it could have ever competed (and won) with the NES in those days.


    And if we are talking handhelds:

    Gizmondo

    I actually liked this handheld. I worked on some homebrew projects (launcher) and got some unreleased titles out there for the masses too. But as a retail prospect, what a freakin' failure. It ended in a car crash, jail time, and I am sure some "pocket pool" while he was incarcerated
    Last edited by zektor; 06-08-2010 at 03:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    Come now, that daisy wheel printer was awesome, especially compared to the dot-matrix printers of the time.
    No, not at all actually. The Atari 1027 daisy wheel printer I already owned for my Atari 800 printed twice as fast while doing so at about a quarter of the volume. The Adam printer was average, at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan View Post
    Lies, lies, lies.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSinFyg6Y5Q

    whys the Adam get so much shit man
    Uh, because it was a turd? Did you actually own one or are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhan View Post
    it gets hate for nonsense reasons. I don't think I have ever seen anyone give a GOOD reason for why they hate the Adam.

    The games that were released on it were pretty good, it played Coleco games, and did things comparable to every other computer at the time.
    1) It was rushed out. They literally hammered some plywood tables together and hired anyone off the street to work on the ADAMs. No ultra-clean measures, no anti-static electricity safeguards, no real training- this was why so many were defective.

    2) The stupid tape drive. Not a regualr one, no, you HAD to buy the tape cassettes THEY sold. Large, clumsy, and without the benefits of a disk drive, yet without the cheap readiness of a regular drive (like the Commodore computers- any tape cassette from the store would do). This made it an oddball, and so unattractive to other companies.

    3) Strange programming. The word processor was truly weird.

    4) Apple-like- yet not Apple. So why not just get an Apple?

    5) In order for a computer to stand out in those days, it had to offer something against IBM, Apple, Atari, Commodore, etc. Those were established computers. ADAM was too awkward and oddball to do it, and so it barely got lukewarm attention from other companies.

    6) It drew money and effort from the ColecoVision.

    7) It bankrupted Coleco. Why did they believe the nerds and "experts" who kept on about how "video gaming was dead?"
    Last edited by Aswald; 06-09-2010 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonicwolf View Post
    The Jaguar killed Atari's already damaged reputation AND ruined the company once and for all. I would have to say, because of that, the Jaguar is the single biggest company-affecting failure in the industry, ever.
    Atari was dead long before the Jaguar. The two main people responsible for it's demise were Ray Kassar and Steve Ross.

    Atari became the poster child for poor quality, after Warner Communications took over.

    First came the Pac-Man debacle. Then came Steve Ross paying an astronomical fee for the rights of ET, only to come up with what is now widely known as one of the worst games of all times, only because Atari rushed it to market to cash in on Christmas '82. Then came Swordquest. Then came the flood of poor 3rd party games. Then came the 5200 which spelled the end of Atari as we knew it in the VCS era.

    If you ask me, Atari was killed by the god-awful 5200. The console was just a nightmare to own. Even the Atari enginners didn't want it released. The 5200 had no redeeming qualities, whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent57 View Post
    are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)
    Actually, for 1984 that game looks pretty decent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diskoboy View Post
    Atari was dead long before the Jaguar. The two main people responsible for it's demise were Ray Kassar and Steve Ross.

    Atari became the poster child for poor quality, after Warner Communications took over.

    First came the Pac-Man debacle. Then came Steve Ross paying an astronomical fee for the rights of ET, only to come up with what is now widely known as one of the worst games of all times, only because Atari rushed it to market to cash in on Christmas '82. Then came Swordquest. Then came the flood of poor 3rd party games. Then came the 5200 which spelled the end of Atari as we knew it in the VCS era.

    If you ask me, Atari was killed by the god-awful 5200. The console was just a nightmare to own. Even the Atari enginners didn't want it released. The 5200 had no redeeming qualities, whatsoever.

    No, that wasn't it.

    What killed Atari was the 2600.

    The problem was this: the 2600 was, by far, the most successful of the early consoles. Nothing came close. Any TWO consoles put together couldn't match it.

    The result was that Atari had a huge success, a great moneymaker, and was #1.

    Problem was, arcade games- the main thing back then for home games- were rapidly evolving in the 1980s. Within a few years we'd gone from Pong and crude driving games to Zaxxon and Robotron.

    As a result, the 2600 could no longer handle it. Traditionally, home consoles are always behind arcade technology, if only because of size and relative costs and the need for home consoles to be versatile.

    This was where the ColecoVision came in. It was a massive success, because it brought home games the likes of which we'd never seen before at home. Cosmic Avenger. Ladybug...graphics and such like never before.

    Atari, if it wanted to put up a fight, had to come up with a new console. Now, some say that originally the 7800 was supposed to have been that console, but the CV forced Atari to put out something FAST, and so the 5200- based on the existing 400 computer- was rushed out. This was why early 5200 games had mainly solid colors, and were not as good as the first batch of CV games. It is also interesting that the 1982 5200 was not backwardly-compatible with the 2600, but the 1984 7800 was. And two years was very significant back then.

    Now, here was where things became interesting.

    Unlike Coleco, Atari had two consoles out. On the one hand, the 5200 was supposed to have been the next step, yet, because the 2600 was still popular, Atari did not want to abandon it. This caused many people to wonder whether or not to get a 5200- if Atari wasn't going to get right behind it, why should they? They could feel the, well, "indecisive vibes" from Atari. That's not quite it, but it's hard to explain- you have to remember that home consoles did not have the history they do now, it was still recent. The whole mentality and atmosphere was different than it is now. If you were there, you know what I mean.

    So Atari was supporting two consoles. And since most of the games for the 5200 were also being made for the 2600, there was less reason to make that move up to the 5200.

    Coleco did not have this problem.

    They also failed to come out with announced games- Tempest being the prime example. Atari needed popular games that were solidly 5200; "...ONLY for the 5200!"

    Atari, already reckless with its spending- the E.T. fiasco is an example- then made the worst move ever: they dropped the 5200 after just less than 18 months.

    Now, I've tried to make this point at Atari Age, and maybe the mentality is different today, but back in those days, you didn't dump one system in favor of another that quickly and expect customers to trust you. Especially when the first batch of games for the 7800 were pretty much the same as for the 5200 and 2600!

    Some still insist that the 7800 was originally meant to take on the CV, since at that time the CV was the only player in town, really.

    But each time Atari came out with a console, it did more poorly than the one before it.


    The 5200 was not a bad system. It was a really good one. True, the controllers were a bad joke, but it was so easy to get around that, had Atari wanted to. That left the games, and it had many good ones, and was capable of many more. Tempest, for example. Scrolling games. Xybot-style games. RPGs. It just never got a chance.

    As for Ross- no argument. But remember that Kassar was outranked by Ross, and even though he knew that E.T. could not be done, he had no choice. So don't blame him too much for that and other things as well.
    Interesting stuff, here (COMPLETELY unbiased opinion, hehhehheh):

    http://griswaldterrastone.deviantart.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTERWEEDO View Post
    the 360 is definitely a failure. i ont even want to buy one until i know it'll last a few years.
    I thought about going this route, but it's hard to call the 360 a failure when, even though they've left money on the table because of their hardware problems, they've *got* to be very financially sound. Games on 360 sell like hotcakes (mmm, hotcakes), so in the end I disagreed with this idea.

    I thought about and dismissed the N64 too. It's commonly known that Nintendo didn't lose any money with the N64, but their stubbornness sticking with the cartridge platform opened the door for Sony and Microsoft and two generations of hardware that didn't sell the way NES and SNES sold. But it still made money and it sure hasn't hurt them anymore now, so I disagree with this too.

    The Dreamcast argument presented is flawed, because I think it was the Saturn that killed Sega's hardware ambitions. Which brings me back to the 360: If I posit that the Saturn killed the Dreamcast, I wonder if the 360's well known hardware problems could spell similar problems for the next generation Xbox. Time will tell.

    My vote would go to the 3DO. Way too pricey. FMV was an interesting idea that just totally failed to work. And no real game support (though I did love FIFA and Road Rash back in the day)
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent57 View Post
    Uh, because it was a turd? Did you actually own one or are you actually impressed by that version of Dragon's Lair? (I wasn't)
    I own one. I own that game too.

    Compared to the C64 version (yknow the computer everyone goes OMG ITS SO GLORIOUS etc. etc.), it is superior on all fronts.

    The animation is smoother,the control are more responsive,the colors are brighter, and the overall presentation is better.

    the music is better on the Adam one to me, but some may prefer the C64 one. I think the C64 sounds thin, the sfx are kinda podunk, and the music isn't as upbeat and epic.

    If you aren't impressed by that game on that set of hardware, from 1984, what DO you like from back then in that time frame/for that hardware? That game is pretty kick ass, and has alot of unique elements and game sequences.


    as for the tape drives, eh, most companies from back then are guilty of trying some new, eventual disaster of a storage medium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peonpiate View Post
    Any device that has a slight chance, no matter how small, of blinding you is a horrible system.
    Oh come on. If the device was actually capable of blinding people it would have never been sold. You might as well say that all video games should be taken off the market because they might induce epileptic seizures.

    Quote Originally Posted by agent57 View Post
    No, not at all actually. The Atari 1027 daisy wheel printer I already owned for my Atari 800 printed twice as fast while doing so at about a quarter of the volume. The Adam printer was average, at best.
    Can't say I've heard of that device before. Was it common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aswald View Post
    3) Strange programming. The word processor was truly weird.
    Back before conventions were well-established a lot of word processors were pretty weird, no?

    5) In order for a computer to stand out in those days, it had to offer something against IBM, Apple, Atari, Commodore, etc. Those were established computers. ADAM was too awkward and oddball to do it, and so it barely got lukewarm attention from other companies.
    This does not differentiate the ADAM from the whackload of other computers coming out at the same time.
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    NGPC?

    It never got a real chance to go. It was destroyed by the GBA and its death killed SNK America and brought SNK to its knees in Japan. SNK did come back, but once aquired by Playmore it was never the same.



    The Dreamcast wasn't a Sega Killer, the poor support/cost of a Sega CD, 32X and Saturn that all fell so quickly painted Sega into a corner. The Dreamcast when it launched was already facing the 'Sega is going to screw you over' rumors. Because of that, consumers didn't bite in as big of droves. The PS2 then launched and though many of the DC games looked better than any of the launch PS2 games the buzz behind the PS2 was almost too big to overcome. Sega didn't think they could compete and pulled support of the system (when at least here in America the DC was holding its own at the time, Japan was a different story). The PS2 also got real lucky with the release of GTA 3 and GT3. If those hadn't launched when they did and Sega actually kept pushing and fighting, it might have had a chance. The lack of EA didn't help things, but their biggest titles at the time (Madden, NBA Live, MLB) all had major competition from the then smoking 2K lines.

    The VB just wasn't a great system. Is it a portable? Is it a tabletop/home unit. It didn't know what it was and that made it hard for the consumer to know what to do with it. Besides, why get that big ol clunky thing when you've got a GB that can actually be carried around w/o needing a suitcase. It was by no means the biggest failure though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorpho View Post
    Back before conventions were well-established a lot of word processors were pretty weird, no?
    Yeah. Pretty much all word processors up til Amiga were pretty weird. The Commodore had plenty of crap ones too, so did apple. Rose Tinted GlassesTM

    This does not differentiate the ADAM from the whackload of other computers coming out at the same time.
    yeah. There were far worse ones out there.

    Also it did offer something the Commodore, etc. didn't.

    You could get the EM #3, and turn your game console into a computer. It played all your Coleco games. talk about incentive to upgrade


    not to mention depending how you slice it, the games were just as good and the unit was as expensive as an Apple.

    I think they just got unlucky and the computer didn't catch on like they had hoped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    Actually, for 1984 that game looks pretty decent.
    I was actually VERY impressed!

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