Add Scanlines to HDTVs with New Device

[wingzrow]

http://retro.nintendolife.com/news/2...n_of_scanlines

http://arcadeforge.de/?page_id=745

It's hard to believe but there you have it. Someone has created a device that, through VGA, adds scanlines to LCD tvs. Needless to say this has my interest piqued.

Here's a video of it in action. The second it supports composite, s-video, component jacks, etc, this looks like an instant buy for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzPqw...layer_embedded

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Unclear from the links,

will this only create a visual "simulation" of real scan lines, or will this actually allow the use of light guns on modern flat screens?

[Greg2600]

Looks like a complete waste of money if it doesn't allow for light guns (which I very much doubt it does). Firstly, who in their right mind would want a worse picture? Second, even if you were that off the wall, run an emulator on your PC, and output it to the big screen. Most newer PC's can, most emulators have the option to add scanlines or similar effects.

Third, the reason old guns don't work on HDTV's is not lack of scanlines, it's the entire process for displaying the video. LCD's use progressive scan, CRT's used interlacing. Now for instance, you can set your cable STB to output 480i, but your HDTV actually then deinterlaces that signal. It's automatic, you can't turn it off, otherwise you'd get no picture at all. So even if this device somehow interlaced the picture, your TV is just going to convert it to progressive scan. Even beyond that, there's an issue of timing as well. The flicker rate would have to be close to what CRT's used, as well.

I personally think it's impossible to get original guns to work. It is however very possible to make a new gun that works on an LCD, perhaps with sensors, and then communicates with the console. The drawback is that you'd need a new gun per console (NES, SMS, SNES, GEN, PS1, PS2, etc.). Or the manufacturer would have to program code to talk to each of those consoles into the gun, and then build an adapter that would fit each of those consoles, like a Radioshack power supply with multiple, swappable connectors.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Looks like a complete waste of money if it doesn't allow for light guns (which I very much doubt it does). Firstly, who in their right mind would want a worse picture? Second, even if you were that off the wall, run an emulator on your PC, and output it to the big screen. Most newer PC's can, most emulators have the option to add scanlines or similar effects.

Third, the reason old guns don't work on HDTV's is not lack of scanlines, it's the entire process for displaying the video. LCD's use progressive scan, CRT's used interlacing. Now for instance, you can set your cable STB to output 480i, but your HDTV actually then deinterlaces that signal. It's automatic, you can't turn it off, otherwise you'd get no picture at all. So even if this device somehow interlaced the picture, your TV is just going to convert it to progressive scan. Even beyond that, there's an issue of timing as well. The flicker rate would have to be close to what CRT's used, as well.

I personally think it's impossible to get original guns to work. It is however very possible to make a new gun that works on an LCD, perhaps with sensors, and then communicates with the console. The drawback is that you'd need a new gun per console (NES, SMS, SNES, GEN, PS1, PS2, etc.). Or the manufacturer would have to program code to talk to each of those consoles into the gun, and then build an adapter that would fit each of those consoles, like a Radioshack power supply with multiple, swappable connectors.

Ah, I thought the scanlines worked in some way with the monitor's interlacing.

I do know that there are a lot of arcade enthusiasts that like the authenticity of scanlines, however, as you stated, MAME and other emulators can simulate that just fine.

I guess that this would only be a must-have if you have a supergun setup on a modern flat-screen that didn't display scan lines?

[ccovell]

Check out this link: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4422.0

The OP posts a link to the SLG3000, and the next poster points out a much cheaper DIY solution. Worth a look, if scanlines on plasma monitors are your thing.

[Greg2600]

Frankie, actually after further reading I'm not 100% positive it won't work in theory. By "adding the scan lines," the assumption is you're forcing I'd hope every second line of the image to be blank. That's what interlaced video does. However, you'd have to switch from say odd lines shown to even lines shown in the next frame, to be correct/accurate. So I guess technically this "might' achieve actual interlacing effect. Now if it does, there's still the question of whether the refresh rate on HDTV's is too high for the old guns/3D glasses.

I did a weird test where I loaded SMS Missile Defense 3D into Fusion and turned scanlines to 100%, then simultaneously switched on my SMS, which has MD 3D built in. I got it so that both the emulator and the real game were almost totally in sync. Turned scanlines up in Fusion, nothing, turned my LCD brightness/contrast all the way up, nothing. Now I am running 60 mhz rate on my monitor, which is the proper USA NTSC rate, but it's not interlaced. Oddly this monitor can do interlaced, but it's at a much lower rate of 30.

[Zapf]

Here's a video of it in action. The second it supports composite, s-video, component jacks, etc, this looks like an instant buy for me.

Its doubtful it will ever have composite/svideo support added, as this was primarily designed to be fed from a line doubler like the XRGB, or a device that already outputs via vga (like a dreamcast, xbox 360, etc). Most game consoles can be output

Looks like a complete waste of money if it doesn't allow for light guns (which I very much doubt it does). Firstly, who in their right mind would want a worse picture?

That's completely subjective; most people are using this on stuff that was originally displayed in 240p on a crt (15khz arcade games, early consoles). Many would say just straight upscaling them to 1080p on a modern LCD is the worse picture.

some more info

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/