Since yer askin, here are a few answers for ya son:Originally Posted by Emuaust
Yes, interest was in fact polled five months ago.
Android was the lead/winning platform in the poll.
Every single response was positive and receptive to the concept of a paid app.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...wpost&t=151173
Can't blame a guy for asking for feedback from COMMUNITY MEMBERS and then running with the results of that feedback, can you?
Well, yeah, obviously you can.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Someone needs to relax.
Thank you for your response Frankie, this is your first productive post of the thread, thanks for clearing up quite a few of the unanswered questions.
I also don't see me "blaming" anyone, I was simply highlighting the concerns of some of those who posted in the thread, questions that hadn't been clarified in this thread, I really appreciate your response, its clear and precise and has zero negative undertones.
PS. I would ask you to refrain from calling me "son" I find that rather derogatory coming from yourself.
Last edited by Emuaust; 07-20-2011 at 09:41 PM.
$5 is fairly expensive for an android app, a store where 70% of all apps are free. What kind of sales do you expect?
Look.
I support this project as it has been proposed and I take tremendous TREMENDOUS OFFENSE at that support being called "blind" loyalty by you or anybody else.
You're totally entitled to your opinion but you can not speak for me or any other community member that supports this project on any level.
What you can do though, is voice your lack of support by simply not donating.
This really is a pretty democratic process.
If you don't support the app - don't donate.
If the majority of the community doesn't support the app it won't reach its financial goal.
If it doesn't reach its financial goal it won't get produced as fast or possibly at all.
My money is in the coffer and that's all I have to say about it.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I think kicking money towards dev costs and modest payment for the dev is totally reasonable. I think where a lot of people are getting hung up is the (to me) very strange idea of paying someone's living costs for app development directly.
I get it's a fairly inexpensive cost for development but this could just as easily be someone's school project... not a full-time gig. And for the record, I'm involved with the funding or development of a half dozen current Android projects, so this isn't just baseless opinion.
I think the idea is sound of having an application to remotely access the valuation database, I just think the way this project is presented is what's ruffling feathers. I'd expect the programmer to work for salary and profit sharing on app sales, or entirely for costs up front... this has some weird charity/profit mix that would be hard to resolve... particularly since it's selling access to volunteer generated content.
This isn't meant to attack anyone or ruffle feathers, but I feel better having said my piece.
Picture not related.
<Sothy> its the internet <Sothy> who cares
I think a new Rarity Guide should be put out, and a version be available for Android ($5 sounds reasonable). I know there are things amiss about the current rarity guide; for example, Plumbers Don't Wear Ties for the 3DO is listed as Rarity 3 and worth $12. I haven't seen it much - it's probably rarity 7, not 3 now - and the pricing is much higher; I got my copy for $75, but I'd seen it cheaper a couple months back (about $40). But to its credit, this game has probably gotten much rarer since the AVGN review; those that own it are probably holding on to it more often and selling it for more money when they do sell it. Most games I'd say haven't changed more than about 50% from their value, and haven't changed in rarity more than a point or two at most.
Real collectors drive Hondas, Toyotas, Chevys, Fords, etc... not Rolls Royces.
This sounds almost like a paid version of what I started years ago. I made collection software on a website, and then I updated it (the code is still behind the scenes), so that it would be more functional and not look like ass on a smartphone.
Had I been given permission to use the online rarity guide (and I fully understand reasons for me not getting permission at the time, so please do not see it as me saying anything negative), that I would have had game collection software and the rarity guide all in one on a website.
I guess the thing I am saying is that there are people out there, and I know I am not the only one, more than willing to setup an all-in-one free website that will handle your collection and the rarity guide if ever given the chance.
I am not saying it is wrong to charge for an Android app, sure, do what you have to do. I am just saying that there are some of us out there willing to make a website with pretty much the same functionality for free and give it out for free.
I am only weighing options here. No, $5 is not very much for an app, but at the same time, free is cheaper.
I mean, if you are downloading an app that says Digital Press on it, hopefully the people using it are smart enough to do a Google search for Digital Press and find the website right away to report issues in the rarity guide. I think allowing people to edit their own will only cause problems and inflation later on.
Person A: I will sell you item X for $100
Person B: well the DP rarity guide app says I should only pay you $25 (i.e. people just going in and editting their own rarity guides and then taking it for the game being that value that they personally set to either sell something for too much money, or try to lowball when buying)
Last edited by SegaAges; 07-21-2011 at 12:55 AM.
Your point is reasonable, not hostile/personal and well stated.
I think that it is obvious why people are frustrated/take offense to the way that nz17 has proposed his financial outline and detailed his need for personal expenses/profits. Frankly, they've made that abundantly clear in their responses.
However, regarding your above point, I'll bring this up again since people seem to have completely ignored it -
The guides in their analog form have always been sold for what I assume to be "profit". (I don't believe that each guide cost $25 to physically print.)
The notion that just because individuals volunteered their time/effort to produce data for the guide doesn't mean that a prior precedent has not been set regarding the sale/profit of that work.
First and foremost the printers who made those guides got paid for their work and that payment surely went to supporting the business/lives of those individuals, not DP. Unless, was the printing, binding and delivery of those guides done by a DP community member? If it was, I'm unaware of that fact.
Secondly, can any of us say with 100% certainty that each and every penny that the analog guide made went directly back to supporting the website and community?
While we all know that Joe TIRELESSLY pours his own personal money into the community, the store, the website, NAVA, CGE and eventually the Videogame History Museum, did Joe ever commit to that notion that 100% of guide profits would go back to the community?
Devil's advocate time - ask yourselves, is it possible that Joe hypothetically bought himself some groceries, a case of MGD for NAVA or in part paid a utility bill at some point in time with some incremental amount of profits from the analog guides?
And while we're on the subject, did any of you who had a red guide ever sell it on eBay or on the buying/selling forums for some measure of profit when it went out of print? I've seen those go for well over their original price. If so, how can you possibly live with yourself for profiting off of the work of others?!
I take things like that into consideration in my view of this entire proposal.
A part of a community like this is that there's some level of symbiosis where people supplement their income or livelihood based on the Digital Press name or the channels that this website provides. Whether or not this is an appropriate means of appropriation of DP's time/money is up to you the individual to decide.
If this is the way that it's proposed to be done, I'm fine with that. Historically where DP projects are concerned it's a bit unorthodox but I'm not personally offended by it and I'm more than willing to toss a few bucks into the project to see where it goes.
There's much MUCH to take into consideration when attempting to shame somebody for coming up with a plan like this. It can't be as black and white as people want it to be.
The expectation that this either be a 100% charitable act or that profiteering in any small fashion is some horrible shameful thing deserving of hostility I find to be most unreasonable and I won't participate in it.
And, while I'll gladly personally defend myself and other supporters when highly personal shots are made across my bow, I see no reason to be hostile to those who don't support it.
If you're opposed to the project as it has been proposed, just don't be a part of it. Since it's largely dependent on your support - you'll clearly do more damage to the progress of it with your own personal reluctance to donate.
Last edited by Frankie_Says_Relax; 07-21-2011 at 09:06 AM.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Bur? The database query is an open API.
I was not aware that the Digit Press Guides had been released on vinyl or cassette. Did I miss an audio book somewhere?
Here's an observation though, to help put things in perspective and could actually silence a bit of the critics here and let the supporters back down a bit.The notion that just because individuals volunteered their time/effort to produce data for the guide doesn't mean that a prior precedent has not been set regarding the sale/profit of that work.
Having just flipped through the Advanced Guide, there's 4 pages of sponsors, 10 businesses in total. Considering the pages do say SPONSORS and not FRIENDS, it is safe to assume that these businesses paid money for their space in the book - money of which went to the publication of said book. What if the same approach was taken with the App?
It would go like this:
a. Sponsors are sought out to help pay for the development of the app - if $4600 is needed, at 10 sponsors, each would only need to pony up $460. Less if you have more sponsors. In return for their sponsorship, the App is programmed with a Sponsor page with links to the sponsors web-pages (i.e. gamecollector, game gavel, etc).
The App then, as a FREE download, would have a Nag Screen for a few short seconds that randomly shows one of the sponsors while it loads.
b. With this set-up, the user can then have the option of donating through the App to the Project or the Museum ($5 minimum to whatever they want). If a donation is made, the Nag Screen goes away completely. The Links / Ad page stays regardless.
The Ad Page works in both directions - it give attention to the sponsors, gets them potential customers, and it gets the production costs paid for "in-house." You can even add / remove sponsors as you go.
This way, there's no money out of pocket for the App from the reader, the app is made and paid for, and everyone can go relax* and we can all get back to doing what we love.
*Not a Stab at Frankie. My vocabulary is limited.
I'd pay for an audio book version of the guide.
This is precisely the kind of productive constructive discussion I was trying to elicit earlier.
If we disagree with how something is proposed, instead of rallying against it, come together with ideas to help make it work better/more effectively.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Read by Ben Kingsley.
<Sothy> its the internet <Sothy> who cares
Wouldn't matter. Joe put his own money at stake getting the guides printed in the first place. There was no "fundraiser" to pay for his medical expenses and computer.
The "cost" is too high, the demand is too low (the oft-linked thread of 10 or so posts and 19 votes confirms this, but for some reason it is supposed to be evidence of the opposite), and the kickstarter thing is an embarrassing, tacky disaster.
I personally would love to have the app, and would pay for it, up front or after the fact. Unfortunately I don't think there are another 500 or so who would do the same, at least not at this time. A good start would be for someone to develop a prototype on his own dime (like Joe put together the guides on his own dime), let people check it out and decide if it's worth paying for.
That's how it works, not how it SHOULD work or how some of us WANT it to work. You create a worthwhile product then people pay for it, not the other way around.
That's Sir Ben Kingsley, to you!
Good point.
<Sothy> its the internet <Sothy> who cares
You know what would be cool? A free app where any time you find a game in the wild you add one copy of it to the database, and if you sell it online, you put down what you payed for it. Eventually you could get a good average rarity & price rating from the entire community if it were a group effort.
Here here kid ice . I agree with your sentiment. I think that'd be the right way to go with it.
Imho, a beta and/or basic version with the basics, ie title, rarity, price, etc for free with ads would be a good starter with this kind of app.
Also, an alternative to money contribution: what are the items the developer would need, ie specifications of the devices needed and why. Because someone can just as well donate that way.
The developer can get things done with a cheaper and more advanced computer or device than what he can find, thus saving money and avoiding some of the problems with their vague monetary contribution list.
I mostly agree with Kid Ice's post. Well said!
I'll also add that I hate hate hate paying for data updates, esp. when it is a significant percentage of the original cost, doubly esp. when it is unclear to me who is doing the work for those data updates. This is a major impediment to my donating or future potential purchase.
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