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Thread: VGA rated NWC Gold cart on eBay

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    Because you both apparently can't read.



    I said IF someone put an NWC Gold up for sale without all of this display case nonsense, then it could probably sell for $27k. The price isn't bad, it's just that this display has obviously reduced the buyer pool.
    Has any Gold NWC ever sold for anywhere near that amount? I thought the highest previous confirmed sale was something like $17K. Are you assuming that the black box negotiate after the fact guy who has single handedly put those specific sealed games into the price stratosphere is interested in an NWC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    Because you both apparently can't read.



    I said IF someone put an NWC Gold up for sale without all of this display case nonsense, then it could probably sell for $27k. The price isn't bad, it's just that this display has obviously reduced the buyer pool.
    Yeah, sorry, second half of your statement is clear, I was just thrown/focusing on your general optimism in your opening statement.
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    I guess we have different definitions of what's considered "released". I assumed you meant you sold a prototype of a game that had seen a regular retail release as opposed to a competition cartridge in a unique case. I could see how someone might be interested in owning that, although I still think $450 was high. Having said that, I agree with several other people who posted that they consider a game similar to a car or other collectible where its functional state provides a considerable proportion of the value even if the owner rarely or never uses it for its utilitarian purpose. I know I would never buy a game sealed or not that I knew wasn't working. If for no other reason, you never know who a future buyer of the game could be and what their intended use might be. I'm sure there are wealthy sealed buyers who open games and actually play them. As far as non-working prototypes, I found plenty of listings on various forums, but not much evidence they ever sold. I know having been here and Assembler for many years, non-working protos for which there is no hope of repair have always gone for small amounts of money. I wish I could poiht to a specific recent sale, but unfortunately most sellers delete their posts or never disclose final prices on things like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaglePuss View Post
    It was a Donkey Kong Competition prototype cart that was in a case similar to that of the SNES Campus Challenge. I was contacted by a member of Atari Age when the game wasn't even being advertised for sale. He must be a big fan of either Donkey Kong, SNES, prototypes, or comp carts. Whatever the reason, I wasn't about to turn down that type of money for a paperweight.

    You mentioned in a previous post that you've seen non-working prototypes sell for next to nothing in the past. Do you happen to recall any of those sale or have any links to such sales? I'm just curious as I don't know of any such prototype sale in recent history, and I tend to be pretty active in those type of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Has any Gold NWC ever sold for anywhere near that amount? I thought the highest previous confirmed sale was something like $17K. Are you assuming that the black box negotiate after the fact guy who has single handedly put those specific sealed games into the price stratosphere is interested in an NWC?
    An outdated price point on a rare item that never changes hands is almost meaningless. It's good data to know, but will likely have little bearing on the outcome of a new sale.

    I've noticed that NWC Grays have gone from $4k to $6k to probably $8k-$10k right now, if you get a nice conditioned copy. Obviously torn labels / worn copies would go less.

    With the prices on almost anything "rare" for NES literally doubling or tripling within the past year or two, the NWC Gold is likely due for a jump.

    But, this is all just my opinion. No, I do not have any sales data to reveal, and I'm sure buyers / sellers of these items want to keep it private for this exact reason. If word got out that someone paid $27k or whatever, then everyone instantly refers to it as worth $27k. If that $27k sale happens but is kept quiet, everyone continues to refer to it as worth $17k. See how it works?
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    Yeah, that makes zero sense. To the buyer who has purchased something at $27K, it makes no sense not to publicize that price as they would want the market to see that as the new benchmark so when they go to sell it will go up from that point. Similarly, other sellers want to know what the market price is at any given point so they can price accordingly. Even the person who sold it shouldn't care if the final price is revelaed since they no longer own the item. The only people benefitted by hiding actual prices are speculators who want to generate so much hype that they pump values up quickly and make the maximum profit. If there really were NWC golds changing hands at above $17K, I'm pretty sure it would have come out by now.

    Just because other rare sealed NES items have gone up in value doesn't mean the NWC stuff has as well. In fact, I would suspect most sealed NES collectors could care less about the NWC gold or gray since it was never a retail release and it was never sold sealed. That's not to say that it has no value, only that $17K is probably still around where it's at if you can even find a willing buyer and seller which is a very big if on both sides of the transaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    An outdated price point on a rare item that never changes hands is almost meaningless. It's good data to know, but will likely have little bearing on the outcome of a new sale.

    I've noticed that NWC Grays have gone from $4k to $6k to probably $8k-$10k right now, if you get a nice conditioned copy. Obviously torn labels / worn copies would go less.

    With the prices on almost anything "rare" for NES literally doubling or tripling within the past year or two, the NWC Gold is likely due for a jump.

    But, this is all just my opinion. No, I do not have any sales data to reveal, and I'm sure buyers / sellers of these items want to keep it private for this exact reason. If word got out that someone paid $27k or whatever, then everyone instantly refers to it as worth $27k. If that $27k sale happens but is kept quiet, everyone continues to refer to it as worth $17k. See how it works?
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 04-25-2012 at 12:09 PM.

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    If you have the money to buy a game for $27k, why not just buy 2 working, and one non working cart, display the front and back of the working carts, gut the last one, and give me the shell. You'd have the same display and i'd have a NWC shell. Win win.

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    Gold NWCs have definitely changed hands for over 17K, I've been involved with two of those. The reasons the buyers don't want the prices revealed is because they just don't want people taking advantage of them as "having money" if they need other stuff and you can't blame them. Private sales = private transactions. I can understand the need for public but this game sells for more privately than publicly.

    Earlyworm's gold NWC on ebay was probably hurt by this VGA setup more than anything. There are buyers looking for the cart right now but offers ranged from 17-28K but lots of stipulations come with that.

    Gray NWCs under 10K are a buyer's dream these days. I can tell you I have 2 people interested in mine at 16K when they get the money together although my label is really nice. I don't really want to sell it but for that much money I will.

    People are going to pay whatever they feel the game is worth and verification on these is important but there really has never been too many running auctions for NWCs in the grand scheme of things, a lot of these are private and I've sold 6 of these (one being a friend's) all privately and at the time the perceived value was well below what I was asking for it....

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    Thanks Jason, I was wondering when you'd chime in. Considering he has been involved in more NWC transactions than anyone, hopefully the valuation argument can be laid to rest. $16k seems high for an NWC Gray, but if you're willing to wait for the right buyer, someone will probably come your way eventually.

    As I said, $17k for a Gold seemed awfully cheap. It has nothing to do with sealed games, I'm talking about NES values in general. Samson cart only went from $125 to $300 in a year, Flintstones 2 cart only went from $250 to $500 in 6 months. You can look at other platforms where a MUSHA Genesis CIB went from $100 to $250 also. There is legitimate money coming into the hobby on anything rare.

    If the NWC Gold was $17k a couple of years ago and still $17k today, red flags should be going off. There is no way that the rarest of all things rare stays the same in value while everything else is spiking. Anyone should be able to read that writing on the wall.
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    While I have respect for Jason as a collector, I hardly think he's a neutral party in the valuation issue. I see this same thing come up all the time on NeoGeo.com as there is one moderator who also generated the price guide that constantly prices his stuff above what most people agree the fair value to be and well above his own price guide. He always points to the alleged secret transactions of high value cart sales as his excuse for why his asking prices are so high. Simply put, someone with a vested interest in maintaining or increasing the value of something they buy and sell is not a reliable source.

    I understand that personal transactions may occur and I certainly understand people wanting to remain private, but there is no reason that the price something is sold for should remain a secret. It's not like the name of the buyer has to be revealed. Frankly, as much as people complain about Ebay, it remains the appropriate means of determining the fair market value of items over time as it's a regulated public marketplace and there isn't a whole lot of room for slippy valuations and alleged transactions.

    On your other point, equating games in the hundreds of dollars with games in the tens of thousands of dollars is ridiculous. Lots of collectors can afford spending a few hundred dollars on something and many do. With new games retailing at $60 nowadays and the MSRP on collector's editions going for hundreds in some cases, it just isn't much of a stretch. Paying $17K for something that is uncertain to be able to be resold for that much quickly is a whole different thing. I'm not saying it can't or hasn't happened, but it takes a very specific kind of buyer and a willing seller, neither of which are necessarily common. As such, items at the higher end are always much slower to appreciate in value and in every collectible market are the first to be hit when the economy goes bad. It's like any other asset that just isn't very liquid or capable of ready valuation. I realize you're a newer collector, but I have been through this cycle many, many times not only in video games, but in other collectibles like comics and coins. Just because a particular market is hot doesn't mean the most expensive or rarest items will share that heat, especially if there aren't a mass of rich collectors actively seeking those items out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    Thanks Jason, I was wondering when you'd chime in. Considering he has been involved in more NWC transactions than anyone, hopefully the valuation argument can be laid to rest. $16k seems high for an NWC Gray, but if you're willing to wait for the right buyer, someone will probably come your way eventually.

    As I said, $17k for a Gold seemed awfully cheap. It has nothing to do with sealed games, I'm talking about NES values in general. Samson cart only went from $125 to $300 in a year, Flintstones 2 cart only went from $250 to $500 in 6 months. You can look at other platforms where a MUSHA Genesis CIB went from $100 to $250 also. There is legitimate money coming into the hobby on anything rare.

    If the NWC Gold was $17k a couple of years ago and still $17k today, red flags should be going off. There is no way that the rarest of all things rare stays the same in value while everything else is spiking. Anyone should be able to read that writing on the wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buyatari View Post
    WTH does this have to do with anything?

    If you are worried about creepy go hang out in the Brony thread you won't have to go to another website. It is over here in the off topic section.
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    Alright bojay we'll agree to disagree. I'm not "that" new, I got about 4 years of heavy buying / selling / pricing / collecting knowledge at this point, but new compared to you old-timers, yes. Also, I've collected Ripken cards on / off for about 15 years, so I do have some experience with analogies by comparison. Don't know much about coins / comics though.

    Let me put it another way. If I had an opportunity to buy an NWC Gold at $17k, I'd really give it some thought. I'm pretty tight with my money though, and I would probably decide to just keep the cash, as that's a lot for a game. I'm not at the stage of collecting where I need a fire-proof safe for high end items, and if you have something like that, it should be safeguarded.

    As far as pricing, things are usually kept on a need-to-know basis. Exactly two people need to know the value of an item, the buyer and the seller in a transaction. Everyone else is irrelevant. I don't reveal buying or selling data on my private transactions, and they are usually only a couple $100 dollars or $1,000 at most. I can certainly respect keeping $10,000+ transactions in private.
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    Yeah I mean, I definitely think there is a difference between perceived "market" value and that someone is willing to pay for something. I try and stretch the boundaries on things but on items like these "market value" can change pretty dramatically. It's precisely why people believed the Blockbuster Genesis cart was only worth $2000 for so many years, because the last public one sold 3+ years ago previously...

    I definitely think 16K is more than the gray NWC is worth, but the buyer also has to wait for one to show up on a public auction site and sometimes that does not always go so well, better to not take your chances on something like that going towards a reputable dealer. It's exactly why car sales are different from "Dealer" to "private owner" as well.

    I am certain the gold NWC would easily hit 20K on open market as there are buyers looking for it.

    I do have a vested interest in these, yes, but I do admit I would charge "above" possible ebay value to eliminate any possibilities but again, we're questioning what the prices "might" reach when there are only a handful of buyers all competing with the same amount of money. Also, realize that payment plans help with these; I have been very open to those and you can always open the door for more buyers with that and it also changes the value...

    I definitely believe that like many Sotheby's auctions for rare antiquities the buyer chooses to remain anonymous but the value is publicly displayed whereas in private sales the buyer doesn't want the "amount" known. Nothing wrong with that any of that in my opinion especially when it really shouldn't concern anyone else....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonebone View Post
    Because you both apparently can't read.
    Yeah yeah yeah, details details.

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    I'm not too familiar with the VGA but couldn't the eventual buyer of this cart send it back to them, pay the grading fee, and have it reassembled and installed in a new case? The $100 or so is pocket change compared to the five figures being spent on the cart.

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    EEPROMS can be easily rewritten if there's data damage. The EEPROM isn't unuseable, just corrupted. Once rewritten (the ROM is freely available for this game), problem solved.

    I worry more about bitrot for all the UN-backed up games out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbudrick View Post
    EEPROMS can be easily rewritten if there's data damage. The EEPROM isn't unuseable, just corrupted. Once rewritten (the ROM is freely available for this game), problem solved.

    I worry more about bitrot for all the UN-backed up games out there.

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    Yet another post incorrectly using EEPROM....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I wish I could poiht to a specific recent sale, but unfortunately most sellers delete their posts or never disclose final prices on things like that.
    Followed by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Yeah, that makes zero sense. To the buyer who has purchased something at $27K, it makes no sense not to publicize that price as they would want the market to see that as the new benchmark so when they go to sell it will go up from that point. Similarly, other sellers want to know what the market price is at any given point so they can price accordingly. Even the person who sold it shouldn't care if the final price is revelaed since they no longer own the item.
    And still later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    I understand that personal transactions may occur and I certainly understand people wanting to remain private, but there is no reason that the price something is sold for should remain a secret. It's not like the name of the buyer has to be revealed.
    Seems logical enough...

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    Wow, impressive use of selective quoting to take two completed unrelated arguments out of context. To clarify, "things like that" was a very specific reference to non-working prototypes. I'm not aware of too many situations where a seller of a non-working prototype does anything besides asking potential buyers to make an offer because the seller just assumes the item is pretty worthless and doesn't want to look like a fool setting some unrealistic price for an item that is very hard to sell even in the best of cases. In fact, I have yet to find an example on Assembler or Nintendoage or Atari Age of someone advertising a non-working prototype for sale with anything other than make an offer. As such, you're not going to see lasting price information because the post gets deleted and nobody ever thinks to ask or report what it sold for because few if any people care.

    On very expensive items, there is no reason to hide the ball. I'm pretty sure you're one of the guys that is looking to pump prices on Nintendoage and you've been very cagey about what your items finally sold for, no doubt because you're looking to maximize your profit and not because buyers are asking you to protect the pricing information.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmark0673 View Post
    Followed by...



    And still later...



    Seems logical enough...
    Last edited by Bojay1997; 04-26-2012 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bojay1997 View Post
    Wow, impressive use of selective quoting to take two completed unrelated arguments out of context. To clarify, "things like that" was a very specific reference to non-working prototypes. I'm not aware of too many situations where a seller of a non-working prototype does anything besides asking potential buyers to make an offer because the seller just assumes the item is pretty worthless and doesn't want to look like a fool setting some unrealistic price for an item that is very hard to sell even in the best of cases. In fact, I have yet to find an example on Assembler or Nintendoage or Atari Age of someone advertising a non-working prototype for sale with anything other than make an offer. As such, you're not going to see lasting price information because the post gets deleted and nobody ever thinks to ask or report what it sold for because few if any people care.

    On very expensive items, there is no reason to hide the ball. I'm pretty sure you're one of the guys that is looking to pump prices on Nintendoage and you've been very cagey about what your items finally sold for, no doubt because you're looking to maximize your profit and not because buyers are asking you to protect the pricing information.
    Sounds like a smart man to me. Private business transactions are private for a reason.

    There are many valid reasons for "hiding the ball". From taxation concerns to privacy concerns, there are countless reasons why you would not advertise a high-dollar transaction of any kind. You're only thinking in the scope of the gaming market itself but there are real-world reasons for not disclosing exact or near exact numbers. I find it disturbing that you would automatically assume he's withholding pricing information to "maximize profits". Besides, even if that's the only reason, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart business practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaruff View Post
    Sounds like a smart man to me. Private business transactions are private for a reason.

    There are many valid reasons for "hiding the ball". From taxation concerns to privacy concerns, there are countless reasons why you would not advertise a high-dollar transaction of any kind. You're only thinking in the scope of the gaming market itself but there are real-world reasons for not disclosing exact or near exact numbers. I find it disturbing that you would automatically assume he's withholding pricing information to "maximize profits". Besides, even if that's the only reason, there's nothing wrong with that. It's smart business practice.
    Actually, as a collector and as a law abiding tax payer, there is something very wrong with that from my perspective. I hope you're not suggesting that it's ok to commit a felony by failing to report gain from video games sales, are you? On the general subject of maximizing profit, I have equally strong objections. It raises prices for everyone on the things most of us enjoy and collect. If you want to be in the video game resale business, by all means be my guest. But please stop using forums like this one to get free information and advice so you can maximize your profits. Stop going out and representing yourself as a collector and getting people who own rare items to sell them to you for next to nothing under the false pretense that you will preserve those items as opposed to flipping them for many times what you paid. Most importantly, stop spreading lies and misinformation about what things are worth on a forum so you can try to trick others into buying into your pricing theories.

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