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Thread: OK,most people don't like resurface discs but what about disc rot? real, fake, sucks!

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    Question OK,most people don't like resurface discs but what about disc rot? real, fake, sucks!

    I have these tiny holes on Maybe 5 to 10 ps1 discs.The worst one is where it made the game disc skip was mega man legends 2 and its not a cheap game. Note: The game disc is flawless and I don't want to sell it to stick somebody else with it like it happen to me.How do you guys feel on Disc rot? selling them, buying them, believing it does not exists?
    If it's not fun? Your not really playing.

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    Humor me. Pics of the PS1 games with light coming through them.

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    Disc/Laser rot is something of a misnomer. Delamination is the only real form of deterioration that you would need to be concerned about with PS1 discs. If delamination is the issue, then don't expect to observe it with the naked eye.

    If you have another PS1 or PS2, then try the disc in another system first. Later gen games can sometimes cause issues in older models consoles. If not, try and pop it in your PC and burn a copy. If your computer successfully makes the dup, then it's probably not unreadable.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) sloan's Avatar
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    I've heard the term "disc rot" used and never understood its use. I have had a couple game discs (Dreamcast, Gamecube) over the years that there was a point in the data layer where light would shine through if held up to a lamp. What caused it, I don't know because I bought the games that way, unfortunately.

    Somewhere, I have been told that writing on CD-R discs with a Sharpie marker is bad because supposedly the chemicals in the marker ink eat through the disc over a period of years. True or not, I do not know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    Somewhere, I have been told that writing on CD-R discs with a Sharpie marker is bad because supposedly the chemicals in the marker ink eat through the disc over a period of years. True or not, I do not know.
    This is true, the solvents in some markers could eventually affect the dye layer. It's best to use markers specifically designed for CDs. I don't have any so I just leave discs unlabeled, I label the case they're stored in. Also don't use adhesive labels on discs as they can affect the balance of the disc.

    What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that different types of discs are manufactured differently. CDs, DVDs, CD-Rs, and DVD-Rs are all made differently and have different layers. The discs can fail in different ways as they have different weaknesses. I have come across Sega CD and PC games that have pinholes in them, if the holes are past the data then the discs can still be playable. It could be caused by manufacturing problems or with poor storage, something has to penetrate the top coat/layer and cause the reflective layer to flake off or oxidize.

    As for how I feel about disc rot, I avoid buying discs if I notice pinholes in them. I also tend to avoid discs if I notice them starting to discolour in the reflective layer, it could mean that the reflective layer is starting to oxidize and will become unreadable. I'd rather not risk it unless it's something really valuable.

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    http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/Dis...uyers-1337.php This is how I've learn about it and my discs look like this too.Do I believe in it? some..
    If it's not fun? Your not really playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    This is true, the solvents in some markers could eventually affect the dye layer.
    The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kedawa View Post
    The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.
    This. I'm glad someone said it. The solvents in most markers are alcohols which evaporate within seconds of writing.
    Ready to print game covers and cart labels: http://www.mediafire.com/?5gm45wyxr3xvv

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    The problem with disc rot is I'm not sure if it really is a manufacturing problem for all the cases I see, or sometimes just a poorly treated disc. I've got several games that look exactly like disc rot, except for the fact that I know about the lot they came from and those have just been terribly abused. Poor Saturn games

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    Quote Originally Posted by kedawa View Post
    The solvents should have evaporated long before they could have caused any damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by djshok View Post
    This. I'm glad someone said it. The solvents in most markers are alcohols which evaporate within seconds of writing.
    http://www.tapeonline.com/articles/u...rs-on-cds-dvds
    http://superuser.com/questions/34533...on-a-cd-r-disc

    It depends on the marker, some contain xylene and toluene instead of just alcohol. While the solvents will evaporate quickly, they could potentially damage the outer coating once applied(within seconds) and the ink that stays behind could continue to eat through to the reflective layer over time, the ink is the stuff that stays on the disc that you can read.

    Does this mean that all markers will damage a disc, of course not. It's like with handling computer hardware, you can handle and install parts without using anti-static equipment. It doesn't mean that the hardware will get damaged, there's just a higher chance that it could get damaged. It depends on the quality of the discs too, some top coatings are better than others. The markers designed for CD-Rs are water based so they're safer to use compared to other markers.

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    "Disc Rot" is real, but the claims that some people make about it are way way overblown. The brief version of the reason for it is that the platter layer containing the data on a CD rots, and it causes an issue with the disc.

    Honestly, real honest-to-goodness disc-rot is extremely, extremely, extremely rare.

    That isn't to say that games don't get those pinholes in them, but that is actually a different problem. If you take out your discs and look at them, you'll notice that one side is screen printed. If the problem was disc-rot, the color of the hole should be the same as the color of the screenprint on the other side... but you'll notice that it almost never is. Instead, what you've got is a disc that at some point in it's life was mishandled -- maybe by you, maybe by the person that owned it before you, maybe at the factory. The side that is screenprinted is pretty fragile, and I believe the data is actually nearer the surface there. If you scratch it deep enough, you'll gouge the data layer right off.

    A *lot* of people store discs upside down, so as to combat them from getting scratched, but a scratch on the other side of the disc can lead to the pinhole problem, and can definitely render a disc unplayable. Sometimes, it is hard to see that a little irregularity even occurred, as the screen printing combines right into it.

    The problem with disc rot ultimately usually comes from air being sealed into that layer of the disc. This is not common for professionally printed CDs at all to get. My oldest CD is from 1986, when manufacturing was much crappier on them, and it still works fine. Does it exist? Yeah. It is overblown? Yeah -- because it is often misunderstood.

    I don't know if that will help anyone, but I hope that it does
    Dan Loosen
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    yea, you maybe on to something there. I took one of the worst of my discs[ rare one] and look at it with the flashlight, there was 4 or 5 holes group together. Then I turn it over in the same spot on the printed side of the disc there was these very tiny scratch marks in the same place they were hard to see.This disc did skip a couple times in the game... So, if its a deep scratch on the printed side its wreck forever then? But won't get any worst which is good in a way? You know I've never look that hard on the printed side maybe that's why people are careless into thinking it won't hurt them?
    If it's not fun? Your not really playing.

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    Thanks for the explanation, goatdan. I, too, have been under the impression that the dot of light syndrome is, indeed, a particle of missing label from the screen printed side of the disc. In my own experience, some discs with dots of light showing through will operate fine, and others will not. Really depends on what part of the data layer was lost.

    As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.
    True the data is sandwiched between layers of plastic, but the laser has to have something to reflect off of to be able to read the data. This is where the oxidation comes in, with the layer of foil on top rotting off. The foil could be protected with some kind of varnish, or not protected at all from oxidation.
    Don't go away mad....just go away!

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    My copy of Grand Theft Auto IV for the Xbox 360 had pinhole problems, rendering the game unplayable. Sounds like they cheaped out on the manufacturing process. I'm angry because I paid $15 for it, and it doesn't work.
    <Evan_G> i keep my games in an inaccessable crate where i can't play them

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    I have a Windows 98SE disc that has a black cloudy spot near the edge of the disc, it installs and works just fine so I'm not sure if this is true disc rot or some strange stain. I haven't encountered it on anything else, but I don't have any CD-ROMs older than the mid 90s, and I put every disc I might potentially buy up to a bright light source just to check.

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    I've only gotten pinholes on CDRs, and I've yet to experience actual bit rot on anything other than tapes and floppies.

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    This sucks. Our carts will probably last much longer than any of our discs. I seriously hope that gaming switches to flash carts soon.
    Selling gaming accessories. Click

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shulamana View Post
    I have a Windows 98SE disc that has a black cloudy spot near the edge of the disc, it installs and works just fine so I'm not sure if this is true disc rot or some strange stain. I haven't encountered it on anything else, but I don't have any CD-ROMs older than the mid 90s, and I put every disc I might potentially buy up to a bright light source just to check.
    It's de-laminating and oxidizing (rotting).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloan View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, goatdan. I, too, have been under the impression that the dot of light syndrome is, indeed, a particle of missing label from the screen printed side of the disc. In my own experience, some discs with dots of light showing through will operate fine, and others will not. Really depends on what part of the data layer was lost.
    Discs read from the inside out, so the further out that the damage has occurred, the more likely you are that the damage doesn't affect anything. In a *lot* of cases, the data on a disc takes up surprisingly little space, so you can often have a disc that has the pinhole problem but it plays fine.

    As for "rot", doesn't there have to be oxygen present for something to rot? With the data being sealed within plastic laminated layers, I just don't understand how there could be oxygen present to rot anything.
    Well, the theory is that when the disc is produced, you are essentially sandwiching your data layer between two layers of plastic. On some discs, if you look at the edge you can even see the sandwich of the two platters. The idea is that at some point, oxygen will be able to get in between the layers which will lead to the metal oxidizing and rotting. I think though many people who thought this would be a big issue in the beginning didn't expect data discs to actually seal that layer very well, which they apparently do.
    Dan Loosen
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