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Thread: Official Super Retro Trio Review & Preorder Thread

  1. #21
    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    For the record, Retro-Bit has gotten back to me and have mailed me my review unit. Full indepth review and engineering corrections in the forthcoming days. Next week should be exciting as I example this clone. I predict this will be another engineering oddity just like the Gen-X.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViNGaDoRjr View Post
    Please... post for us the quality of the NES games played through S-Video. It will be pointless to buy one if the quality is bad or if the company is using composite passthrough again. Thanks!
    You obviously don't understand the engineering of Famiclones if that's something you're hoping for, so let me explain. In 1983, Nintendo commissioned chip producer Ricoh to produce many of the microprocessors used in their newest product, the Family Computer (NES). The Ricoh engineered PPU for this machine was called the RP2C02. It was capable of rendering 60Hz NTSC video through standard RF and even cleaner composite video, a brand new format at the time.

    The Nintendo Famicom [NES] was first reverse engineered around 1989, using discrete clones of each chip, including the Ricoh RP2C02. This clone of the PPU had defects in it, often rendering incorrect pallets and that sort of thing. Over time, the RP2C02 clones would improve and gradually, these discrete hardware clones were replaced by much cheaper and smaller integrated glop-top circuits commonly called NOACs - Nintendo-On-A-Chip. So it has been for over 20 years now.

    During the mid half of the 80's, Nintendo's games became very popular and so the company also branched out into arcades, using their same Famicom hardware. However, arcade monitors were at the time typically RGB based and could not use the RP2C02. Ricoh specifically engineered a new PPU for this purpose called the RC2C03B, which was only capable of RGB with a modified pallet.

    Since NOACs were of course marketed for the home, at no point did they ever integrate the RC2C03B into their design. Since all NOACs are based on the original hardware and thus the RP2C02, they are capable of RF, and Composite. It is not possible for a NOAC to produce RGB, S-Video, or any other video format besides RF and Composite. Retro-Bit and other clone makers can funnel a composite video feed through the luminance signal so you don't get a black screen, but S-Video support is something that will never happen on a Famiclone unless someone was to produce a custom NOAC from scratch, and that's not exactly high on anyone's priorities.

    Still, when I get my system from Retro-Bit, I of course will try this, but I suspect that it'll be the same composite passthrough with S-Video as the Retro-Duo. I predict the same with the SRA and the RetroGen.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavagePencil View Post
    I'm less interested in the video quality (although that will be nice) and more interested in the audio quality. Both Top Gear and UN Squadron have sounded like garbage with previous clone systems.
    I was originally planning on doing my video review with a CRT (no S-video jack sorry), but...

    My 2006 Sanyo HDTV has S-video jack. Unfortunately, the TV disables composite whenever something is plugged into the S-video jack regarless of whether signal is present or not, however this is beneficial for review purposes. I can just unplug/ replug the S-video jack without changing the input settings hot-swapping S-video and composite on the fly, and any changes reflected on the screen, for better or worse, will be duly noted. As Satoshi has elaborately explained, don't expect miracles to happen.

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    I beat you Satoshi. Youtube video is currently uploading. DSL is slow as crap, sans any errors, my unboxing and Super Mario / Duck Hunt playtest video will be live in a few hours.

    Came with a couple awesome retro stickers, and the duty cycles are not messed up!


    Video link (pending successful upload):
    http://youtu.be/Ll3LSMe1yUU

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Still, when I get my system from Retro-Bit, I of course will try this, but I suspect that it'll be the same composite passthrough with S-Video as the Retro-Duo. I predict the same with the SRA and the RetroGen.
    Satoshi, I think you are right. I have tested the Retrobit a little this morning and I have come to the conclusion that the stock S-Video cable that comes with the system is crap. On NES, the picture is flawless through the A/V on my HDTV, but when I plug the S-Video cable, the screen gets grainy with diagonal jailbars and a small amount of static. Obviously, the S-video cable is a very thin unshielded wire, so I replaced it with a known good premium shielded S-video cable.

    Here's the real kicker: with the shielded S-Video cable, the reception gets even worse! More static, NTSC colors barely show up, and worse diagonal jailbarring. Genesis is not as bad, vertical jailbars using the stock S-video cable. Jailbars are even more pronounced using said premium S-video cable. Genesis audio is definitely cleaner than the A/V multi-out or RF output on my stock VA7 Model 1, but this revision in particular is known to have grungy sounding audio. Both NES and Genesis are bright and vibrant with no static or jailbars when using the regular A/V. SNES displays flawlessly through either cable.

    But shy the bloody hell is the NES S-Video actually worse viewed through a premium shielded S-video cable than using the stock POS cable? I'll have to get a video of the craptastic effect later.

    Also I tested the drum synth on the NES using track 7 (Money) of my MOON8 cart by Brad Smith (8-bit Pink Floyd DSOTM tribute). The sampled cash register sounds a little muted and doesn't ring right compared to the real NES or A/V Famicom. All in all, the slightly off samples aren't nearly as bad a deal breaker as the swapped duty cycles that plagued clone systems for years. Bass is definitely audible when played back on HiFi speakers, comparable to my NES and stronger than the A/V Famicom.

    One more thing to add, Stereo separation is flawless on both the SNES and the Genesis. NES is dual mono, as it should be.

    EDIT: Sorry for the triple post...
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-04-2014 at 10:34 AM.

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    Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

    Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

    Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?

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    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavagePencil View Post
    Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

    Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

    Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?
    Hang on a few days. Once I get mine, I'm going to record a review and stress test of dozens of games.

    The Super Advance Adapter does require it's own AV feed, but there's a chance it might passthrough the composite leads on the back. I'll confirm when I can.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavagePencil View Post
    Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

    Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

    Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?
    I'm going to be conducting audio/video tests for SNES and Genesis later. Right now, there are glaring issues with the NES controller port that need to be addressed.

    Upload complete.......
    http://youtu.be/VZdUgfTOHvQ

    Sattoshi, I also did some continuity tests with the Retrobit clone. P1 D3 and D4 are not connected at all. Unless you're a huge fan of playing Chiller with dual lightguns, or select hombrews, this shouldn't matter as no other commercial game ever used those inputs. Famicom doesn't use these inputs either. P2 D3 and D4 bypass strait through to the clone board, which explains why the Zapper works perfectly. D0 channel appears to go through some type of switching apparatus. I have not confirmed this yet, but I believe the Gen / NES-SNES switch uses a logic converter to translate the signal when in Gen mode, and apparently uses logic to pass signal from the stock controllers for NES/SNES when not in Gen mode. NES ports cannot be used to play SNES games and SNES ports cannot be used to play NES, despite using nearly identical protocols. Something is getting messed up in translation between getting the signal from the NES P1 controller port (D0) to the clone board, because my NES controller is not behaving properly at all. The P1 port appears to be very loose, and the controller ports are glued into the Retro Trio housing preventing me from completely removing the PCB for more thorough troubleshooting.
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-04-2014 at 11:00 PM.

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    EPIC BUMP!

    Got a video uploading to YT right now. I stuff three Everdrives into the Super Retro Trio, and they all work!

    I hooked up the Famicom Everdrive through a Gyromite Adapter, and I got Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse running on it!!!

    Link will be updated when the video is live...
    http://youtu.be/Lud4z0_NYFM
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-08-2014 at 08:09 AM.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Leo_A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    The Super Advance Adapter does require it's own AV feed, but there's a chance it might passthrough the composite leads on the back. I'll confirm when I can.
    You've said before that it does.

    http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/?p=4895&preview=true

    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    As is, the included cable is required when using an actual Super Nintendo or Super Famicom. However, this is only true of the original Nintendo hardware and older, non Retro-Bit clone consoles. Newer Retro-Bit clones such as the Retro Duo Portable and the upcoming Super Retro Trio will pass the video feed directly to it’s own video output jacks without the need of the additional cable.

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    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

    Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

    Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.
    Satoshi, you may want to check this out. Not all Super Retro Trios are equal. My first unit came with a defective NES port. I posted a video about it, and was contacted by a Retrobit representative. They send me a replacement console. Good news, the NES ports work. Bad news, the NOAC is inferior design. Have a look:


    Sadly, I have to keep my promise to the Retrobit rep to box up and return the unit with "good" audio but defective NES ports. Such a waste...
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-09-2014 at 01:18 AM.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Rickstilwell1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stardust4ever View Post
    Satoshi, you may want to check this out. Not all Super Retro Trios are equal. My first unit came with a defective NES port. I posted a video about it, and was contacted by a Retrobit representative. They send me a replacement console. Good news, the NES ports work. Bad news, the NOAC is inferior design. Have a look:


    Sadly, I have to keep my promise to the Retrobit rep to box up and return the unit with "good" audio but defective NES ports. Such a waste...
    You should complain about the weaker audio and have them send you one with both problems fixed and send both back. lol
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
    I'm a collector, but only to a certain extent.
    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickstilwell1 View Post
    You should complain about the weaker audio and have them send you one with both problems fixed and send both back. lol
    Ugg. It's not bad that the second console isn't perfect. Had it been my first console, I'd of been happy with it. Truth is, the rest of the games still sound fine on the second Trio clone. Just the fact that I have to send back the one with a superior NOAC; it feels like such a downgrade...

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    That's because it is one. Shame you can't chop shop the parts together to get the system you want.

    All this is in the end is a huge buyer beware warning to anyone wanting one that no two systems are alike and it could just be a hot turd in a box until you get one that works and that's a hassle.

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    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

    Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

    Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.
    Satoshi, did you see the second half of that video where the MMC5 audio is messed up on the second unit?

    It's just a "glop top" on the bottom of the NES daughter board like all the other NES clones. For the record, I don't actually own Castlevania III; I played it off the Everdrive, so there's still a chance the real cartrige may or may not work. The first unit with messed up controller ports had clean MMC5 audio; the replacement unit had messed up audio when playing the game. It sounded fine on the other games I've tested. Sadly, I am sending the first one (with good audio) back to Retrobit today.

    I'm just throwing this out there, because if some reviewer reviews a clone system and says "game X works" or "the audio is nearly perfect", then a customer goes out and buys the console based on what a reviewer said, they may not have the exact same experience. Now having first hand experience with two Super Retro Trio clones that are not identical, I mention this fact at the end of my review of the replacement Super retro Trio unit.

    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-09-2014 at 01:01 PM.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) MaxWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

    Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.
    I think the Super Retro Advance is exactly the same thing as the AD adapter. And it is incapable of outputing anything else than composite. This being said it has very good composite and awesome scaling. It is better than the official GameCubeGB player. I am curious how the SRA sounds out of the box on the retro trio, as the AD adapter sounded like shit and required extensive modding to fix.

    http://www.assemblergames.com/forums...NES-AD-Adapter

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

    Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.
    Satoshi, the first unit has been mailed back to Retrobit/Innex. The new unit I'm stuck with now fails hard at playing the MC5 audio, as previously demonstrated. There may be other differences which sadly I cannot document. When you get yours, load Castlevania III on the Everdrive as well as the actual cartrige. I want to know if your MMC5 audio is messed up, like my second unit, or plays cleanly like the first. I don't have an original cart for Castlevania III, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the real cart doesn't work but Everdrive + CVIII ROM does.

    Also, feel free to tear down your system and scan the chips if you want. If it's anything like the unit I recieved from DasCheap, you may find it difficult to do a full teardown and completely remove the PCB without breaking the unit. There are screws that hold the front panel to the bottom panel. Some of those screws are masked by the Genesis daughter board. The Genesis daughter board has the controller sockets soldered to it, and those same controller sockets are glued to the front panel. Your best bet for a complete teardown is to use a hobby knife to sever the glue that bonds the controller ports to the front panel. Slide the knife into the front panel along the edges of all six controller ports to sever the glue seams. Once the glue is severed, it should be possible to completely remove the PCB. Then you can document all the chips, measure traces with a continuity tester, etc...

    Also the NES daughterboard has a "glop top" NOAC on the underside, so there are no part numbers on it. What you get under the "glop top" is what you are stuck with.

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    Key (Level 9) Satoshi_Matrix's Avatar
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    Yeah yeah, forget about it. I ran my own tests and contacts and found the info I was seeking. Don't mean to sound rude but all that you just said was a pile of nothing useful. I've already dismantled and examined what I needed and am using that analysis towards my full review.
    check out my classic gaming review site: http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/

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    Cherry (Level 1) stardust4ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satoshi_Matrix View Post
    Don't mean to sound rude but all that you just said was a pile of nothing useful.
    "nothing useful" ???
    Oh boo-hoo...

    Still looking forward to your review. I'm not experienced doing this sort of thing.

    Please, by all means do the Everdrive / Castlevania III test. I wanna know if the Trio you got has good or crappy MMC5 audio.
    Last edited by stardust4ever; 05-10-2014 at 06:16 AM.

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