Anyone here use HDTV's versus CRT's for classic consoles?

[Mangar]

Many high end receivers/amplifiers boast video upscaling. I just bought a house, and hooked up a 65' Plasma on the Wall, with a Denon AVR-X4000. The sound is absolutely amazing, but supposedly their video processor will upscale things similar to an XRGB.... At least if you believe their press release hype. I'm going to test it the next week or so and see how it looks. I'm curious....

I've pretty much gone all emulator nowadays for the classic systems, as it's just the best and most convenient way to play older games. Especially if you have a nice HTPC setup. However, I think there's a certain fun factor of having people over, and popping in an old NES(or whatever) and just playing things with old controllers, old system, etc.. That just can't be matched with emulation.

[Trebuken]

A Retron 5 system would look great on that HDTV. Will not solve your Atari 2600, or TG-16 issues , but it would go a long way.

[Einzelherz]

I've been playing nearly everything on my 42" 1080 Panasonic plasma, but that's because I spend the money earlier this year getting an analog RGB-YUV converter and cables/mods for all/most of my consoles. Of the four you've listed, this isn't the best option though. Maybe there's a good converter out there that works on composite signals though.

The only gripe I have, and it's a small one, is that my tv doesn't like a 240p signal (unless it's from Sega, for some reason) so I get a few lines of curling at the top of my screen. This is because I'm not using a digital upscaler (price in my case, but others would argue lag) so the feed in is the original 240 signal.

Still can't figure out why it doesn't happen with the Genesis and SMS though.

[Tanooki]

A Retron 5 system would look great on that HDTV. Will not solve your Atari 2600, or TG-16 issues , but it would go a long way.

I can attest to that on my 29" LED I have. The clarity, response, the audio, just all of it is crazy good. And check those 2.0betas out the last couple weeks, the features being added for the official 2.0 shortly is nuts. Even the handheld games from the Gameboy family are good solid experiences as well that trumps the official GB Player big time.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

A Retron 5 system would look great on that HDTV. Will not solve your Atari 2600, or TG-16 issues , but it would go a long way.

The solution there is the Ouya. Now that I finally own one, I can say that the Retron5 does a great job most of the time, but the OUya does everything the Retron5 does and in most regards, surpasses it. The Ouya also does far more than the Retron5 with emulation of 2600, C64, PS1, Sega CD, TG-16, CD, Neo-Geo, NGPC and others.

And Ouya's library of android games some of which are absolutely amazing.

If you've got a limited space set up, there's no greater argument for the Ouya. Unlike the rather large Retron5, the Ouya is literally the size of a rubix cube and therefore can be put almost anywhere.

[Trebuken]

The solution there is the Ouya. Now that I finally own one, I can say that the Retron5 does a great job most of the time, but the OUya does everything the Retron5 does and in most regards, surpasses it. The Ouya also does far more than the Retron5 with emulation of 2600, C64, PS1, Sega CD, TG-16, CD, Neo-Geo, NGPC and others.

And Ouya's library of android games some of which are absolutely amazing.

If you've got a limited space set up, there's no greater argument for the Ouya. Unlike the rather large Retron5, the Ouya is literally the size of a rubix cube and therefore can be put almost anywhere.

Certainly true. I just am attached to the physical cartridges with the Retron. Even though the Retron 5 uses emulation it has a more authentic 'console' feel to it as opposed to the Ouya. Ouya is d great option for sure though.

If you went the Ouya route might go even farther and just attach a laptop/PC, add the Hysperspin front-end and have even more options, maybe a little less convenient than the Ouya though.

[Tanooki]

that's kind of my argument. See I have this nice Nexus 7 which is small enough as is, and I have a cable with it so I can just run it through the TV like the Ouya, and then I have a Moga pro for a controller. It negated any useful value of the Ouya so I ditched my interest in it. Either one will due to android introduce some level of slight lag with input especially on emulated old games.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

I'm realy not crazy about the next gen systems' jump to HD tv's. I really don't care if my PS4 games are in 1080p, I just wanna play my games. And I found it annoying that I had to buy a small HD tv just to play it, while everything else works on my CRT. There's just no justice for those of us who own 15 consoles that they wanna hook up at once. Am I asking for too much?

[Tanooki]

Well the thing is, luddites just aren't going to win. CRT is dead and it's time to move along. I find it more odd you feel that CRT looks better. I'm curious what mental process goes into sitting a 20" CRT and a 20" LCD side by side and feeling the soft fuzzy/blurry quality of 480p and under has a more appealing look.

[RP2A03]

Well the thing is, luddites just aren't going to win. CRT is dead and it's time to move along. I find it more odd you feel that CRT looks better. I'm curious what mental process goes into sitting a 20" CRT and a 20" LCD side by side and feeling the soft fuzzy/blurry quality of 480p and under has a more appealing look.

No sample and hold blur.

[Gameguy]

No sample and hold blur.

I agree there's no blur with CRTs or lag, there's better colours too. Just because it's lower resolution doesn't mean it's blurry. No idea where he got that idea unless he only owned shitty TVs or computer monitors. I also like how durable CRTs are, they last for decades. There are some HD CRTs as well, these look better than plasma or LCDs.

I just like playing Duck Hunt, Lethal Enforcers, various Super Scope games, and other light gun games from that era. None of these are compatible with modern TVs.

[Tron 2.0]

For the older consoles,philips 27 inch CRT and a C64 1702 monitor.Modern ones are hooked up to a HDTV.Still in the future i would like to have a XRBG mini or a older model used.If that ever happens the CRT will be sold or given away.

[Leo_A]

No idea where he got that idea unless he only owned shitty TVs or computer monitors.

His experience with classic consoles on his HDTV is also just about as accurate. I have no doubt that he's happy, but very few will ever be as pleased as he seemingly is just by hooking up their range of old consoles directly up to their modern HDTV. He got pretty lucky, I'd say.

If it were that easy, we'd have threads at every classic tv forum stickied at the top about what the best tv models are rather than the emphasis being on things like aftermarket video modification circuits, external scalers, sticking with SD CRT technology, etc. Most HDTV scaling chips are rather poor for this use, their quality varies greatly depending on the source being sent to it, etc. It's very hit or miss what works well from one set to another, the gist of my original reply in this thread.

It's not all about getting the HDTV with the least input lag (Something that has been greatly eased in recent years as an issue). You could research input lag for months on end and get the one with the best response time, and still find that it's killing the picture quality on many of your classic games, isn't displaying anything at all in other cases, etc.

Stargate, the thread creator, will be well served by going the premium route with an XRGB Mini and his research to hook his systems up to it in the most optimum manner will pay dividends.

[Niku-Sama]

What about hd crt's?
I picked one up dumpster diving the other day, Panasonic "Tau" 32" hd crt. Some animal chewed off the power cord and it's an easy fix

[Leo_A]

Discounting computer monitors, I've never owned an HD CRT (Came close once with a nice Trinitron that was 36" or so before I started taking measurements).

But my impression from following threads like this over the years is that all of those are also fixed resolution displays with scaling chips that have to process any non-conforming signal being input to the tv that's different from the set's native resolution.

So you'll enjoy the benefits of CRT technology like the absence of motion blur, but they can still be problematic for classic consoles since a scaling chip is still involved since you're outputting resolutions like 240p to the tv that obviously won't match. That image processing is where input lag is mostly introduced and is also what matters most where picture quality is concerned since it's the component that is adapting the resolution of your classic console to match the set's native resolution.

Generally though, HD CRT's were high end displays. So that technology has that going for it. And SD support wasn't the afterthought it is today. But the most important aspect for classic gaming on a HDTV is the scaling chip and not all scaling chips are created equal and they all have their strengths and weaknesses, so it's hit or miss even with this style of HDTV.

That's why I urged the thread creator to hook some systems up to his own television and see for himself since the experience I've had or the experience that Tanooki has had don't necessarily reflect what he would experience.

[Tanooki]

Leo/Gameguy I gather I got lucky up front, researched the best in range the second time last March.

Pre-HD I came off a 32" Sony Wega, 100lb beast it was. Before that was a non-flat glad death weight box, a normal RCA or Sony whatever it was 90s television. Once the Wega blew a chip I ended up having this 26" Panasonic Viera LCD up until my kid broke the screen early this year. It had no input lag issues at all, even the guitar hero calibration tolerances were well within CRT levels reading peoples comparisons online and that buy was sheer luck, just a solid 60hz 720p tv. The LED I have now matches or exceeds it, used displaylag.com to find something that'll do pre-HD without the lag and that's how I ended up with my 29" viera. I get equal performance to my CRT I had and still do (Nintendo/Sharp TV) and the clarity of a solid computer monitor/lcd-led screen.

On both of the LCD/LEDs I've had the NES has displayed full screen or near that with about an inch border on the sides and sharp, same with the SNES. The N64 just hates LCD in general due to cheats in doing lighting effect, but display wise the 3D is super sharp but usually due to the mud filter on the thing the 2D stuff looks even softer than a CRT yet due to the lighting I keep it on the CRT.

[RP2A03]

Discounting computer monitors, I've never owned an HD CRT (Came close once with a nice Trinitron that was 36" or so before I started taking measurements).

But my impression from following threads like this over the years is that all of those are also fixed resolution displays with scaling chips that have to process any non-conforming signal being input to the tv that's different from the set's native resolution.

So you'll enjoy the benefits of CRT technology like the absence of motion blur, but they can still be problematic for classic consoles since a scaling chip is still involved since you're outputting resolutions like 240p to the tv that obviously won't match. That image processing is where input lag is mostly introduced and is also what matters most where picture quality is concerned since it's the component that is adapting the resolution of your classic console to match the set's native resolution.

Generally though, HD CRT's were high end displays. So that technology has that going for it. And SD support wasn't the afterthought it is today. But the most important aspect for classic gaming on a HDTV is the scaling chip and not all scaling chips are created equal and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

That's why I urged the thread creator to hook some systems up to his own television and see for himself since the experience I've had or the experience that Tanooki has had don't necessarily reflect what he would experience.

It is also worth noting that only Sony's XS955 and the XBR960 come close to being able to fully resolve the horizontal resolution.

[Greg2600]

HD CRT's tend to be far too big, plus 3d glasses and light guns won't work on them. IMO, it's wise to keep a 27" Sony Wega CRT around, or similar. Something that takes component input and S-video. I personally don't care for the PVM's, because they are too small. 19 or 20 inches to me doesn't cut it.

[Zap!]

Well the thing is, luddites just aren't going to win. CRT is dead and it's time to move along. I find it more odd you feel that CRT looks better. I'm curious what mental process goes into sitting a 20" CRT and a 20" LCD side by side and feeling the soft fuzzy/blurry quality of 480p and under has a more appealing look.

I find it odd that you don't feel that CRT's look better when playing systems meant for them.

[Tanooki]

I just never was a fan of the image bleed cheapy RF and RCA cables did on the old sets is all. I don't mind the softness so much, it's just that I got lucky with the new TV I have and it has a sharp image with no input lag problems so I get the best of both worlds of good needed response time and a sharp picture.