Can any sealed game experts help me out?

[wiggyx]

That's a real seal.

And Wiggy, you're full of shit.

Nah, beer and pizza mostly. Dropped the kids at the pool earlier.

[Yorkie]

Sorry my post count isn't as high as his, Daria.

Unless you(Wiggy) can post a video recreating an accurate H seam seal on an NES, SNES, GBA, or N64 box you're full of it.

It's 100% not possible at the moment.

[wiggyx]

It's 100% not possible at the moment.

! Based on?

[Daria]

Sorry my post count isn't as high as his, Daria.

You should be! *shakes fist*

No I'm just saying that if anyone could fake a reseal I have no problem believing it could be Wiggy. His customs show a crazy attention to detail and precision. So if he says he can do it I'm inclined to believe him.

[Yorkie]

! Based on?

Based on the fact that I know you're lying out of your ass.

You'd be shipping your consoles out with fresh pseudo H seams if it was so easy for you.

Now, either post a video or admit you can't do it.

Or you could just go around the whole "proving it" thing again(for the third time).

[Tanooki]

Burden of proof is on you, especially with that attitude problem you have there. If you're so damn certain, prove it. Daria's reasoning there is why I'd err on the side of agreeing with wiggy. His work in what we have seen, and also what we haven't considering his background with such stuff. What's your expertise in that makes you so positive it can't be done and why exactly can it not be then?

[wiggyx]

Based on the fact that I know you're lying out of your ass.

You'd be shipping your consoles out with fresh pseudo H seams if it was so easy for you.

Now, either post a video or admit you can't do it.

Or you could just go around the whole "proving it" thing again(for the third time).

How's that going for you?

[ZeroCool]

The Old Man (Robocop 2): BEHAVE YOURSELVES!

[Market Man]

burden of proof this is a court of law order in the court herp

smug queef noises

a shrinkwrap machine could never be used for evil!

Hot damn! Some good old fashioned dick waving in the Digital Press! GENTLEMEN DO YOU MIND IF I UNDULATE UNTO THIS DANCE?

[Market Man's Crotch]

Locked and loaded, Market Man! No shrink wrap's gonna hold ME back!

[Niku-Sama]

Well at least traffic is picking up?

[Tanooki]

Yeah it is, hopefully it stays up, like all those undulating crotches and this place will be a lot more jumping.

[jonebone]

The H-Seam is easy to fake... but fortunately that is just one of the many aspects to consider when verifying a game as legitimate. I've seen plenty of fake H-Seam games, but ventholes, tightness of wrap, texture of wrap and some other factors all come into play as well.

Not only would you need to fake the seal with 100% accuracy, but you also must have an unopened game to apply it to. Once the game is opened, it gets the white crease on the hinge and it is very easy to spot as a forgery. Even if you made a fake box, the box forgeries on eBay still aren't close enough to the real thing to trick a professional.

Baseball cards are infinitely easier to fake than sealed games, yet there are plenty of cards worth thousands, hundreds of thousands and even millions of dollars. People try to fake those all of the time and grading companies continually shoot them down.

As someone who collects a lot of stuff, perfectly faking a sealed game is nowhere near an easy task. Good enough to trick a novice collector sure, good enough to trick an expert, no way.

[jfreakofkorn]

also from what i know the boxes are made of a different material ( grey colour ) and not white

[sfchakan]

Anyone who can fake a seal probably cares enough not to show the whole interest how to do it.

[wiggyx]

Anyone who can fake a seal probably cares enough not to show the whole interest how to do it.

Yeah, asking me to make a video is absolutely laughable, especially when they make sure to insult me within the same post. Just makes me want to grab the camera and get to work on that how-to video for the whiny, angry child who's demanding it, as if I somehow owe it to them or anyone else.

Reminds me of why I haven't been active here in a while...

[Bojay1997]

The major flaw in your argument is that you're obviously ignorant of the process, which is evidenced by the way you describe the details which you think are pertinent and/or controllable and assumption that a machine would be doing the work for me. This is part of why I have no interest in presenting evidence. I'm fairly certain that I could post a factory sealed game and you would incorrectly call out flaws just based on your extreme bias and lack of knowledge. The other reason that I have zero interest in posting samples is the possible and probable backlash. I can already hear the accusations of forgery. No thanks. This is an argument that cannot be proven in my favor, as you have already made up your mind and are so very certain that what I say simply cannot be true, regardless of what information or photo proof I could provide.

The truth is that I have a significant amount of hands-on experience with this sort of thing (packaging. I have LOTS of experience in packaging design both within my own business and as a packaging designer for a handful of other businesses before starting RCG).

If a forgery is accurate, then you'd never be aware that it is a forgery. That's the whole point. Your assumption that forgeries aren't out there in a measurable number is presumptuous at best. If retro game collecting keeps on its current path, then I would expect a lot more forgeries to find their way onto the market. As soon as it's a viable means by which to make money, people will do it, and they'll do it so well that you'll never know.

What you identify as the "major flaw" is actually the greatest support for my argument. The original H seals were done by machine. That means they are all pretty uniform and consistent and that there are tell tale signs that allow those of us that have been doing this for a while to identify legitimate and illegitimate copies. What you are proposing is that you can, using manual means, duplicate all the nuances of a fairly elaborate machine process. People have tried and at first glance they might fool novices, but in every case, more experienced collectors have quickly identified the forgery.

The fact that you have background in very pretty packaging design doesn't make you an expert in shrink-wrap or methods of fooling collectors. Frankly, there are lots of collectibles that have been ripe for forgery over the years (comics, toys, coins, stamps, etc...) and while all of them have had some degree of fakery, it's not something just anyone can pull off. In this particular case, assembling the raw materials, including an unopened or perfectly forged box for the small number of truly valuable sealed games, the proper wrap, the equipment to pull off the twists and uniform seams, the wrap holes, the roller marks, etc...is not something that most people would ever be able to pull off and I just don't buy that you have the capability to do it. Sure, eventually some examples of really elaborate fraud may emerge, but sealed video games are still small potatoes compared to the more lucrative collectibles out there that can generate tens of thousands of dollars a pop and I don't know that very many criminals are going to bother going through all the steps to go after what is still a very niche and volatile market.

People are entitled to their opinions and maybe they have seen your work in shrink-wrap (although I somehow doubt it). Sadly, it seems like the people supporting you are the same few people who are critical of sealed collectors anyway, who feel like 100% accurate scans of every piece of a game should be freely available and who have a vested interest in undermining and criticizing people who have the money and desire to collect in a different way than they do.

[Tanooki]

How cute passing blame on supporting him to people like myself who aren't fans of uptight collectors. I really don't see any merit in attacking him and I'd rather not see him run off the site from posting again for a few more months or for good this time. Is it really worth it to make a point even if you can't back your shit up any better than he can other than words. He won't prove he can do it because it would give proof of concept, and you won't prove he can't because you can't prove it's impossible. Just leave it be.

[sfchakan]

Something is nagging at me and I think it's my belief that Bojay adores VGA...

Bojay, I've got a sealed box of rocks waiting on your money.

[Bojay1997]

Something is nagging at me and I think it's my belief that Bojay adores VGA...

Bojay, I've got a sealed box of rocks waiting on your money.

Actually, I would never use VGA or any other grading service. I also would never pay crazy amounts of money for sealed games. The fact that you can't comprehend that some people choose to collect in a different way than you do and still derive just as much enjoyment and pleasure from collecting is a sad commentary on your lack of sophistication and narrow minded thinking.