Pretentious indie games- worst of the worst?

[Gameguy]

How far back are you going for "historically unfairly hard" on Japanese games? As an example GamePro gave Final Fantasy III 5 out of 5 back in 1994, EGM gave it 9 out of 10. Everyone loved Nintendo from the 80's through the 90's. While there were North American divisions the best/better console manufacturers during the 90's were Japanese(Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Panasonic, NEC, SNK), the worst ones were non-Japanese(Philips, Atari). During that time the PC was the platform for American games to thrive on, the consoles were a mix and Japanese games were everywhere and usually well loved.

[Tupin]

How far back are you going for "historically unfairly hard" on Japanese games? As an example GamePro gave Final Fantasy III 5 out of 5 back in 1994, EGM gave it 9 out of 10. Everyone loved Nintendo from the 80's through the 90's. While there were North American divisions the best/better console manufacturers during the 90's were Japanese(Nintendo, Sega, Sony, Panasonic, NEC, SNK), the worst ones were non-Japanese(Philips, Atari). During that time the PC was the platform for American games to thrive on, the consoles were a mix and Japanese games were everywhere and usually well loved.

GCN/PS2/Xbox era.

[sfchakan]

We're really going off topic, but the debatable bias against Japanese developed games really started to appear in the last console generation to me (360/PS3). Modern Japanese games, in general, don't seem to fair well with certain crowds.

[Tupin]

One of those crowds happens to be indie developers, despite all the contribution Japanese devs did to the "indie" label.

Think I've mentioned it before, but part of the disconnect between Japanese and Western devs is that the Japanese devs assume Americans are just going to call them a bunch of backward sexists or something similar instead of talking about the game itself. American conventions are multi day "talk about how terrible Japan is" festivals to them.

[The Adventurer]

I don't know what you're talking about. Many indie titles draw heavily from Japanese video games. Everything from classic game elements to art direction to story structures.

You can't look at games like Bastion, Mark of the Ninja, Super Meat Boy, Skullgirls, Shantae Pirate's Curse, and even freaking Shovel Knight without seeing Japanese game inspiration coming out their ass.


And Japan actually has a pretty robust indie scene. Its just the language barrier keeps most of them in Japan. Stuff like Cave Story, Strike Suit Zero, and Liberation Maiden do make it here sometimes.


Also, I don't know where the idea that individuals don't matter in Japanese game development. When so many studios are based around individuals and their vision. Miyamoto, Inafune, Sakurai, Sakaguchi, Kojima, Igarashi, Suda 51... these are the names much of the video game industry are built around.

[Tanooki]

Off topic talking about journalists and not indies, but Polygon is one of many biased journalistsic websites. In my opinion, journalists have no integrity and are the most biased gamers. They don't review scores based on the games themselves, they review games based on popular opinion of a game before it comes out. Based on some private conversations we know journalists have been having on what news to allow the public to see etc, and how we've seen too many great video games get low scores and too many poor ones get high scores, I think most of the major publications are working together to all give similar opinions on games that are released.

Well years ago I worked in the online video game review racket and it was corrupt even a decade ago as bad as it is now so it's nothing new. What you're complaining about there, what a lot of people bitch about there, I made a point to avoid. Sure my reviews ended up being a bit longer than others, but at least I'd get a slow stream of emails thanking for honesty and not spewing out the same crap others did so I know there's a market for it. I just did GBA/DS handheld reviews, but I'd never evaluate a game against another version or system and use that to +/- it as that's a childish cop out. I kind of ripped the old Nintendo Power scoring categories of gameplay, audio, visuals, play control and challenge and dig into those and I'd throw in replay value too. I never slammed immaturely a game, even if it was a turd, maybe a solitary joke (like on a tmnt game I'd joke using a fan reference over a bug that should have never been in there.) Teen Titans on GBA the final boss I pointed out was a buggy nightmare because the collision is broken and most times you fly through the guy taking a hit and not dishing out one. In converse if the game was really a 9 worthy outing I wouldn't verbally felate the developer of the game but I'd point out the strengths in those categories and we need more of that, objectivity and non-bought off or boosted scores. Eventually that style of mine kind of got less appreciated where I was and the reviews started to spread out and it's about time things got otherways dicey internally and I quit around 2006 I think it was.

I have no idea what polygon is other than a gaming review site, but I'm curious what you all are talking about with so called politics because I doubt I can just go to their site and read through a review and see why they're full of crap. I know what Gamespot is, anyone does after that Gerstmann blowup, surprises me they still get the readership they do being so slimy.


...now what's this deal on picking on Final Fantasy XIII? I thought it was great, not excellent but great. I didn't care it was linear and it was nice not having to piddle around towns too though I did miss that part of it a bit. I loved the areas, the combat system, and a/v package and the story. It just got crappy planet side because it has no sense of direction beyond the first few Cieth markers, and you're grossly underleveled for the next area to hit the next area so I've only gone that far. Castlevania LOD2 I remember getting screwed with but the first one was buggy and annoyed me enough I never finished it, yet I do love that 3DS game and it gets dumped on some stupidly -- it really just is NES CV3 with God of War button tap/combo mechanics for the whip and the 'orbs' to raise the HP/MP.

[sfchakan]

I have no idea what polygon is other than a gaming review site, but I'm curious what you all are talking about with so called politics because I doubt I can just go to their site and read through a review and see why they're full of crap.

Read the two I posted and you'll see plenty of bullshit.

I have similar experiences from a little over a decade ago, Tanooki. Once you start "working" alongside some folks, you see plenty of shenanigans.

I read a post by Kevin Gifford a while ago that I thought summed it up pretty well over here.

[Daria]

Yeah those "reviews" you linked to were terribly biased. They would have made great editorials though if polygon had just ditched the rating system. I think there's a place for that kind of gaming journalism, but certainly not as a rated review.

[Tanooki]

Slanted garbage writing in gaming is fine for a tabloid type gaming article or for an opinion piece, but never for a legit review and that link a couple posts up below my last sadly pretty much hits it. There likely isnt a fix because the game makers can just screw the writers since they can do better with youtube and other free outlets reducing their user value to little. Its like when you see those IGN flashback stories re-reviewing a game months or a year later and that so called 10 is really a 6 or 7 with an apology attached.

[Ackman]

Unpopular opinion time.

Passable:
Battleblock Theater (not as good as Castle Crashers)
Cave Story
Shovel Knight
Skullgirls (Just didn't grab me, I suppose I don't hate it but I definitely don't think it is worth the money it got funded I've had much more fun with Melty Blood and Akatski Blitzkamp (way superior games)

Absolute ****:

Braid (steaming pile of kak)
FEZ
LIMBO
Rouge Legacy
Splunky
Super Meat Boy
Volgarr the Viking (actually a decent game but the difficulty is so damn tedious)
Gone Home
Fist Puncher (looks like they spent a weekend making it)
8bit boy (feels like I'm playing a lobotomized 90s platformer)

And some other terrible ones I've purged from my memory the **** ratio is pretty high though.

I just can't stand it that pretentious **** like Braid gets praised over Ms Splosion Man, Mark of the Ninja, Kung Fu Strike or Samurai 2 Vengeance etc
Also I stongly dislike the we're retro so let's use graphics that are worse than the NES, not because of limitations but because they're too ******* lazy or cheap to put some actual effort into the game. Probably some ****** had to **** **** ***** to get favorable reviews on their **** stain of a game.

[Tanooki]

It's not that bad of a list. I don't agree with Spelunky or Limbo, but the rest of them are pretty terrible and definitely not worth the overkill suckuppery (like Braid) gets. The passable list though I think is a bit harsh calling them only that. The design into those few games I have played on your small list (1/2 of them) are actually quite very good.

[sfchakan]

Yeah, I'd be 100% okay if it was an op-ed and not those outlet's official reviews for those games.

[Flojomojo]

I just tried Nidhogg (http://nidhogggame.com) for the first time on Vita and was immediately reminded of this thread. I think it's brilliant, it's like Bushido Blade on Atari 2600 on crack, but I'm sure some of you would find it a "pretentious indie game" and not worth your time or the good press it has received.

Guess what? That's just your opinion, and the Gamergate-like nastiness towards anything different is not how all of us feel.

Pretentious indie games are my absolute favorite genre, and in my opinion, this kind of game is the single best thing about Vita and PS4. Don't Starve, Fez, TxK, OlliOlli, Nidhogg, DokiDoki, Dustforce, Mutant Mudds, and many others ... are so much more interesting to me than Destiny and Batman Arkham part 4.

If you don't like them, you certainly don't have to buy them, but that's no reason to piss on the preferences of people with different opinions and tastes.

[Tupin]

At least Destiny and Arkham Asylum don't pretend to be changing gaming with concepts that they didn't even create. GG comment was not needed.

Are some of those games you listed fun? Absolutely. Are they all original, something that couldn't/wouldn't be done by AAA? Definitely not.

[FrankSerpico]

Not surprising that TC is a flaming #Gamergate neckbeard, as he's also a flaming brony. Keep proving Gawker and their ilk right about you people, it's been a treat to see this entire joke of a "movement" heckled into oblivion. Chris Kluwe's piece on y'all was spot on:
https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-...f-a7e4c7f6d8a6

[Tupin]

Gawker is being ground into dust because of their poor ethics, advertisers are pulling out and whining. Who in the hell would ever call INTEL "craven idiots?" Almost assuredly typed on a Mac, ironically.

Glad I could do just one more thing to be able to piss you and everyone who supports you off. Stay mad. You seem to have some issues about what other people do that doesn't directly involve you.

And have fun playing Gone Home 3: Check Your Privilege GOTY Edition after playing the newest Dewrito-linked Call of Duty. Because that's all you're going to have. Never complain that people tried to change things, or that you don't know how it got this bad. People recognized it was bad and tried to change it, but you had nothing but ad hominem bullshit. So when you're paying $70 for the newest heavy-handed political statement of a "game" designed desperately to convince people that you're "not like those OTHER gamers," remember how fun this all used to be.

[FrankSerpico]

I"m not the one who's mad, I'm happy as hell. Stay thinking you losers accomplished shit other than getting intel to pull ads from some no-name site 95% of America doesn't know exists. You may have put a dent in Kotaku's hits but deadspin, jezebel, jalopnik etc. are still going strong and will continue to do so. There's a reason the only news sources who haven't either outright ridiculed or completely dismissed #gamerGate are infowars and Breitbart.

[Tupin]

Yeah, and that's the whole damn point? That these sites work together to decide which things to give coverage and what not to? Yeah, and Mercedes, BMW, and many other companies getting to pull ads doesn't help either. They admitted that they've lost thousands and have the potential to lose millions. But pageclicks are apparently worth not even being able to have a basic relationship with your advertisers.

Again, no one to complain to when "art games" that are attempts to show SEE VIDEO GAMES ARE TOTALLY ART, GHOST OF ROGER EBERT and brown military shooters are the only basic options.

[Tanooki]

Ugh gamergate scumbaggery is not needed here. There's the real pretentious problem from what I've dug into about it so far. Totally grow up, get out of mommies basement and find a real purpose in life.

[FrankSerpico]

^Typical rambling, disjointed and demonstrably wrong nonsense from someone ridiculous enough to support this "movement". Great to see the Elliot Rodger clones who bought into this nonsense having a collective meltdown. How deluded do you have to be to think a company like Mercedes-Benz even knows #GamerGate exists, or that if they did they'd give a flying fuck about what a bunch of 15 year-olds and basement dwellers living off Mom have to say about their product?