Yooka-Laylee- spiritual successor to Banjo-Kazooie on Kickstarter

[kai123]

I don't preorder so why would I back a Kickstarter? If it gets funded from other people then I still win because I get to just buy it somewhere else. If it doesn't get funded? Oh well I have tons of games I haven't played yet.

[Bojay1997]

No I really don't feel it's a knee jerk reaction at all from me. I've been consistent on the fact I don't back kickstarters and I've seen some of the more broadcast ones end up getting changes that tweaked off some of the backers or end up just being downright hosed over. Reading Rainbow, Ouya, Mighty 09 had some backlash on changes. I'm not saying it's a majority thing, but it is an issue. I don't consider my negative view of the current game industry a bad thing as they've dug their own graves, supplied the wood and the nails for the coffin too. I don't buy a lot of games anymore as the current state of things rightly well sucks other than a few projects a year per system on the whole.

You do realize most people don't care about overpriced trinkets and thank you toys so jsoup does there have a point on why not to back a kickstarter too there. I've rarely bought into the extra box stuff, and so far I've yet to open one up that was worth the money. Maybe whenever I can get to unwrapping FFType0 for PS4 that'll change as I love manga, but we'll see. I'd rather money go right into the game, if someone wants to peddle shirts, books, plastic toys and other crap, then setup an online store for it as that'll help fund the project too. Given the notable lineage of this former Rare employee made project and the cute scale of the characters I would find it very believable if they put out presales/orders for some of the stuff in the kickstarter and delivered it, they'd get some good cash rolling in quick too, including from those who won't pay into kickstarter campaigns.

I strongly disagree. There are lots of great games coming out not only from Kickstarters, but from major and indie studios on a very regular basis. The state of the gaming industry has never been stronger in my opinion and the availability of tools like Unity just keeps opening the door to more and more creativity without requiring a massive up front investment.

This is a site dedicated to collectors and gamers. A lot of us are collectors and being able to obtain exclusive versions of games is a very big deal, especially if they become the only physical version of those games released or the only DRM free versions of the games released. It's fine that you don't care about physical goods or media, but a lot of us do and this whole line about how Kickstarter is somehow begging or shady is just getting old. Yes, there have been some shady Kickstarters and some projects that didn't deliver exactly what was promised. Of course, even some of those projects did right by backers and offered refunds (i.e. Reading Rainbow) or at a minimum tried to provide some alternative to backers that would be more acceptable. Like I said, I'm very pleased with what Kickstarter backed games have been delivered so far and I believe things are only getting better as developers become more adept at working with backers and focus more on delivering great quality games with a well-managed budget and development process.

[Tanooki]

Yeah I know it's a gamer site, but I have a right to voice my opinion that games on the whole thanks to various forces have gone down hill and that the industry is heading into a crossroads because their model is a failure that keeps taking down studios and careers in its wake. It's why you do see stuff like Unity and more freelance projects that do get taken up, they are the dislodged game makers and upset parties that don't have things catered to them anymore, or at least how they want it, so they'll do it themselves, which is good.

And kickstarter is 100% panhandling and begging for cash to get whatever the project someone wants off the ground, that's a fact. If you don't mind begging that's fine, but some people might. I've found some kickstarter games to be nice too, but I wait for them to make retail not in the development phase. Kickstarter is not a sure thing by any means, on the whole going by their numbers as of April 38% of things were properly funded and the rest were not. What they conveniently do not cover is the failure rate of the minority that do end up funded. Given the low true rate of total follow through I have little faith in it.

[Bojay1997]

Yeah I know it's a gamer site, but I have a right to voice my opinion that games on the whole thanks to various forces have gone down hill and that the industry is heading into a crossroads because their model is a failure that keeps taking down studios and careers in its wake. It's why you do see stuff like Unity and more freelance projects that do get taken up, they are the dislodged game makers and upset parties that don't have things catered to them anymore, or at least how they want it, so they'll do it themselves, which is good.

And kickstarter is 100% panhandling and begging for cash to get whatever the project someone wants off the ground, that's a fact. If you don't mind begging that's fine, but some people might. I've found some kickstarter games to be nice too, but I wait for them to make retail not in the development phase. Kickstarter is not a sure thing by any means, on the whole going by their numbers as of April 38% of things were properly funded and the rest were not. What they conveniently do not cover is the failure rate of the minority that do end up funded. Given the low true rate of total follow through I have little faith in it.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, Kickstarter is no different than any other means of funding something, whether that's a company taking preorders or selling stock or seeking private equity investment or taking out a loan. In this case, in exchange for a contribution, backers are entitled to certain digital and physical items as well as some role in shaping how the project progresses. You may not like it, but a lot of people do and it's not any more or less valid than any other way of funding something.

Similarly, your statistics are worthless. The 38% refers to the percentage of projects out of the total started that have actually funded. It has nothing to do with the success or failure of those projects that were funded. Since you seem to keep throwing out unsubstantiated claims, please tell me exactly how many Kickstarter projects have failed to deliver? Like I said, none of the 80 plus video games I have backed have failed to deliver to date and I suspect you won't be able to come up with more than a handful of projects that really didn't deliver anything.

[Tanooki]

The 38% of them funded was direct from their own website which I googled when I posted that. Not all of that 38% were funded which you're leading into right there too. You're not liking the data I'm pulling from their own site just because 'none of the the 80 games I've backed have failed to deliver.' That doesn't mean on the whole kickstarter stuff is a success, if anything you clearly beat the odds. I'm talking about the entire site, not just gaming so I really don't feel a need to go cherry picking for failed games or those who changed gears after getting paid. I think you're just getting hot because you don't like people who have no faith in donating money into a kickstarter fund.

[Bojay1997]

The 38% of them funded was direct from their own website which I googled when I posted that. Not all of that 38% were funded which you're leading into right there too. You're not liking the data I'm pulling from their own site just because 'none of the the 80 games I've backed have failed to deliver.' That doesn't mean on the whole kickstarter stuff is a success, if anything you clearly beat the odds. I'm talking about the entire site, not just gaming so I really don't feel a need to go cherry picking for failed games or those who changed gears after getting paid. I think you're just getting hot because you don't like people who have no faith in donating money into a kickstarter fund.

You misunderstood their data. Of all the projects that have ever started a campaign on Kickstarter, 38% of them have received enough pledges of support to meet their goals and therefore they have been funded (i.e. the pledges were collected). The other 62% did not meet their goals and therefore nobody was charged anything. That's the beauty of Kickstarter, the marketplace and the backers determine what projects should succeed and which should not. Again, I challenge you to cite more than a tiny handful of projects in any category on Kickstarter that have either been fraudulent or failed to deliver. To date over 84,000 projects have successfully funded on Kickstarter. I am only aware of a tiny handful that haven't delivered. Those are great odds and strong evidence that Kickstarter is a great way to create art that otherwise would never be created.

The only thing that makes me irritated is small minded people who are afraid of innovation and evolution and hide behind made up statistics and risks to make themselves feel better about the fact that they are too scared to do anything positive.

[JSoup]

Not sure what you're referring to, but Double Fine actually went to Steam Early Access for additional funding by selling the first half of the game and pre-selling the second half, thus covering the deficiency. The second Kickstarter was for a completely different game that is wrapping up development.

I was referring to the Double Fine Adventure, but I forgot that they chose the other path on that one. Tim brought up the idea of setting up another Kickstarter on the private backer forums in a topic about the games budget. He apparently only thought of it because there was another project for something completely different going on that started it's second Kickstater for similar money needs. Then that Kickstater failed for all the predictable reasons, so Tim decided it was a bad idea. I had completely forgotten it was tossed into Early Access months later.

At any rate, I don't think a little caution is a bad thing when dealing with hypothetical products. In all likelihood, I'll be tossing whatever it was to secure a copy of the game at it, but I'm still going to wait for that invisible "a-ok" to be tossed up.

[Tupin]

Using Broken Age isn't the best thing to do when you want to measure Kickstarter success.

[Bojay1997]

Using Broken Age isn't the best thing to do when you want to measure Kickstarter success.

I don't know. The project had its share of problems and was very late, but ultimately, they delivered a fully formed game that most backers seem satisfied with.

[Tupin]

I don't know. The project had its share of problems and was very late, but ultimately, they delivered a fully formed game that most backers seem satisfied with.

Wasn't the new chapter of the game really underwhelming and reused a lot? Plus the project as a whole showed how incompetent Schafer is, especially with money.

Honestly, Kickstarter was the medium that showed how he and Inafune were bad at what they tried to be famous for, which especially hurt in the latter's case.

[The Adventurer]

Wasn't the new chapter of the game really underwhelming and reused a lot? Plus the project as a whole showed how incompetent Schafer is, especially with money.

Honestly, Kickstarter was the medium that showed how he and Inafune were bad at what they tried to be famous for, which especially hurt in the latter's case.

Both projects have shown that video game development might be a bit more complex then the average gamer might suspect. Usually delays and money problems are kept behind closed doors, these projects have aired their situations publicly. and for that alone, they have been a rousing success.

Also the games are pretty good/look solid. So that's nice.

[JSoup]

I don't know. The project had its share of problems and was very late, but ultimately, they delivered a fully formed game that most backers ,and pretty much only backers, seem satisfied with.

Had to edit that a bit.
The private backer forums had repeated refund request topics following the early backer release until the put their foot down and said to contact support personally about this. At least one guy was called out directly in the documentary, or so I've read (I've not watched all of them yet).
To say this project has been anything greater than an 'ok success' is rather pushing it.

Edit: While I am parroting what people have been on about for the last few weeks, my personal opinion of the game is "I expected a tad more, but what I got is pretty good and I feel fine about my purchase." Balance this against me being one of the $100 backers.

[YoshiM]

A new support character has been announced: Trowzer the sales-snake:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...rpent_salesman

It's innuendo that has a couple people on NintendoLife rattling their sabers on how it's inappropriate for kids but I'm of the mind set that if the kid doesn't get the innuendo, who cares? Things get a bit too PC- just don't SAY it's a trouser snake.

I think I might back this. I loved Banjo Kazooie (even with the collectathon gig) and Conker's and this is sounding like it'll be along the same lines.

[Tanooki]

Wow before I even read beyond the first line of your post I was laughing -- trouser snake, very subtle. I post on and off at NintendoLife, they need to grow up. Whining about that is pointless, no kid will get that. It's just like Sponge Bob or even old Looney Tune cartoons. Some of the stuff they say, show, or two is just plain awful and adult if you get the joke, but to the kids it's funny or ignored as a pun because it's made that way to appeal to all groups. PC crybabies need to jump in a river.

[Nebagram]

The whole 'Trowzer Snake' gag has got me hoping that we're gonna see some subtle Conker-esque humour in the game- the very thing (in addition to sublime gameplay) that made Rare so great in the first place.

[BetaWolf47]

Wow before I even read beyond the first line of your post I was laughing -- trouser snake, very subtle. I post on and off at NintendoLife, they need to grow up. Whining about that is pointless, no kid will get that. It's just like Sponge Bob or even old Looney Tune cartoons. Some of the stuff they say, show, or two is just plain awful and adult if you get the joke, but to the kids it's funny or ignored as a pun because it's made that way to appeal to all groups. PC crybabies need to jump in a river.

If you see anyone else whine about Trowzer, just show them this. That's case in point as to kids not getting the adult humor. Look how much we missed as kids!

[JSoup]

So, yeah. Similar to Bloodstained, I feel like enough "we've thought this out" has been presented that I felt comfortable backing. Just enough for a console version.