Why No TG-16 Knockoffs?

[FieryReign]

Go ahead and include some popular preloaded games, as well as a hu-slot. Just like these Genny clones. Include a clone Turbo controller, AND PUT 2 FUCKING CONTROLLER PORTS on the thing(something NEC/TTI greedily failed to do). I would buy and might actively seek out turbochips. If only to piss off High-Horse collectors and scalpers. Let em cry about authenticity, it makes me laugh. Especially the fleamarket dreamers who think their copy of Alien Crush is worth more than a fucking PC Engine console itself.

If it shakes up the corny elitism of videogames and collecting, I'm all for it. If your penis rises because you own or know someone who owns Magical Chase, good for you. That's all you're going to get. No praise, no victory dance. It's not that great of a game. Rare doesn't mean great...

[celerystalker]

yes definitely great points and a lot what you guys say makes good sense. Just think about this point tho.....

for example, just throwing a number out.....47773 people buy the clone of PCE/Turbo. There is a large percentage of those people who bought the clone because they either a. never played these systems b. don't have the originals of these systems c. bought it to try it out because they heard it was good...

now look at this scenario.......8359 of those people now MUST have the original units PLUS original games and money is not the issue..What does this do???? This keeps raising Ebay prices.

So I still don't get how can possibly clones be good for retro gaming??? All clones do is drive up prices on original stuff.

I'll take a stab at this scenario. First, these projections are based on... a random guess to try and make a point? Even assuming that initial projection was somehow accurate, what science said that 20% of those buyers would turn into collectors? Either way, let's just give those numbers accuracy they don't deserve and say they're perfectly accurate. So, now Magical Chase will cost me $9000 instead of $5000? Keith Courage suddenly costs $15?

The assumption that a clone will produce 8000+ new Turbo collectors with bottomless pockets is silly, but even if it did, I just don't care. It's collectors who drove the prices bananas to begin with. In the last 7 or so years, a TON of collectors started trying to snap up the libraries of systems with a small number of games so they could have complete collections. Sensible people wouldn't pay more than $1 for Color A Dinosaur. They blew up the Virtual Boy, they blew up the 32X, the Jaguar and Jaguar CD, and eventually they got ahold of the Turbografx, and they blew it up, too. It is not a secret. It's a fairly mature market at this point.

I don't hate collectors. I have probably 2500 games myself, and that doesn't happen from a passive interest. I pay good money for AES games even though I have an MVS, because I enjoy playing the console I'd always wanted as a junior high schooler. Some games are out of my reach now, and I can live with that. I don't buy it because it's valuable, it's because I want to play it, share the experience with friends who are enthusiastic but less fortunate, and so I can let my son and niwces and nephews play the stuff that captured my imagination.

You wanna have secrets? Go find them. Start digging up offbeat Game Boy, Wii, or DS games. Start finding PC Engine or Famicom oddities. Get ahead of the collector curve and find something. If you feel really nice... share what you find with others who might enjoy it.

To collectors, Turbografx is old news, and new players are more likely to turn away at the already silly prices than cash out on them. Bring on the clones, or at least some compilation discs... maybe if enough people actually play Keith Courage instead of watching videos or libelous reviews, it'll finally get some credit for being fun instead of somehow killing tge system before it got off the ground like some "historians" would have you believe.

[WoodyXP]

You'll notice nobody is rushing to clone SMS card game compatibility.

It would be cheap and easy to produce a card reader. The problem here is most of the card games are horrible. There's only so many copies of "My Hero" to go around.

[bb_hood]

To collectors, Turbografx is old news, and new players are more likely to turn away at the already silly prices than cash out on them. Bring on the clones, or at least some compilation discs...

Eh, I disagree with that. Alot of people collect TG16 and I think alot more people will collect for the system in the future. The Turbo Grafx/PC engine is an awesome system, and considering how good, unique, and legitimately rare many of the games are, prices really arent that silly.

Clones might drive up the demand for original hu-cards, but any hardcore collector is just gonna choose an original system anyway.
You can play all the hu card games off flash carts anyway so you dont have to pay collector prices to enjoy turbo games.

[o.pwuaioc]

I was going to say that it was because it wasn't popular, but then the SMS wasn't at all in the U.S., and there were still All-in-1 handhelds at least like the Coleco one that features several pre-installed SMS games. I don't see why that sort of thing can be released at least.

The SMS was more popular in Europe and Brazil than the Turbo was world-wide.

Eh, I disagree with that. Alot of people collect TG16 and I think alot more people will collect for the system in the future. The Turbo Grafx/PC engine is an awesome system, and considering how good, unique, and legitimately rare many of the games are, prices really arent that silly.

Clones might drive up the demand for original hu-cards, but any hardcore collector is just gonna choose an original system anyway.
You can play all the hu card games off flash carts anyway so you dont have to pay collector prices to enjoy turbo games.

Prices are downright retarded right now.

[Tanooki]

Calling the prices retarded insult the retards. :P They're nauseating and unfounded other than the fact collectors decided to turn it into the ultimate e-peen system to screw up catagorically across the board. When games as bad as Deep Blue can get something like $30 loose, you got problems. That's like a warped reality where a game as bad at Back to the Future or 2+3 on NES would regularly pay out at that rate or higher for a loose cart and every other awful LJN and Acclaim game on there.

It is true though there is no special chips or voodoo magic with NEC, so if you just pony up for a flash hucard for the system, and then just burn discs, you can combat the asinine behavior on the system and just enjoy it uniquely enough that way without getting wallet molested other than buying the system if you don't already have it.

[celerystalker]

Eh, I disagree with that. Alot of people collect TG16 and I think alot more people will collect for the system in the future. The Turbo Grafx/PC engine is an awesome system, and considering how good, unique, and legitimately rare many of the games are, prices really arent that silly.

Clones might drive up the demand for original hu-cards, but any hardcore collector is just gonna choose an original system anyway.
You can play all the hu card games off flash carts anyway so you dont have to pay collector prices to enjoy turbo games.

My intent wasn't to deride the Turbografx there... I love it to death. I was mainly just saying that the prices are already blown up. Just a few examples of recent sold listings:

Magical Chase: $3999
Dynastic Hero: $999.99
Bonk 3: $735
Super Air Zonk: $625
Terraforming: $550
Soldier Blade: $507
Cotton: $399.99
Legend of Hero Tonma: $375
Beyond Shadowgate: $350

That's just a small sample, and none of those were sealed to try and show inflated value. The only point I'm trying to make with that is that collectors have already gone crazy here. Ten years ago, Magical Chase was a $75 game. I passed on it back then, thinking it seemed awful high, and chose to buy a Neo Geo game at that price... I think it was Super Baseball 2020. Good thing I really like Super Baseball, because it sure as hell doesn't go for thousands.

[bb_hood]

My intent wasn't to deride the Turbografx there... I love it to death. I was mainly just saying that the prices are already blown up. Just a few examples of recent sold listings:

Magical Chase: $3999
Dynastic Hero: $999.99
Bonk 3: $735
Super Air Zonk: $625
Terraforming: $550
Soldier Blade: $507
Cotton: $399.99
Legend of Hero Tonma: $375
Beyond Shadowgate: $350

That's just a small sample, and none of those were sealed to try and show inflated value. The only point I'm trying to make with that is that collectors have already gone crazy here. Ten years ago, Magical Chase was a $75 game. I passed on it back then, thinking it seemed awful high, and chose to buy a Neo Geo game at that price... I think it was Super Baseball 2020. Good thing I really like Super Baseball, because it sure as hell doesn't go for thousands.

Magical Chase is pretty much the holy grail for the US hu-cards. So yeah thats gonna be expensive sure. The rest are some of the rarest for the system, so go figure. Everything was cheaper 10 years ago.

[Tanooki]

The stupidity around Magical Chase is global, and also cross platform. Look what the GBC version from japan gets by association. It's sick.

That list of TG games there, I had like 5 of those a decade ago when I had to sell off the duo/games and I only bought TG card or disc games complete too. Bonk 3, Zonk, Cotton, Tonma, Shadowgate. The first 2 +1 puts it in excess of what I bought Pinbot for of all things, and all 5 of them would put me with both my tables and with $200 to spare. That's disgusting. I mean they're good games, but they're not $2500 worth of awesome and being what they are, they're finite, short, and will lead to being bored with them to sit disused on a shelf.

Those prices when you couple it even with the common stuff like Bonk 1 and 2, Ys Book, Gate of Thunder disc (which has the 2 bonks and bomberman on it too) and a few others there is NO way this is an under the radar system and definitely it is not a system fucked up and over by scalpers and collectors alike. The system is right in there neck and neck with the SNES which had a crap ton more games released in variety and quantity. As bad as the prices are now, no clone system would make it any worse because newbies wouldn't be mad enough in large enough numbers to blow cash on this level. The clone would work for existing owners of games to have something to supplement what they have, maybe so they can put it up and preserve it (like me with the Retron5, and my DK Super Set is boxed back up and the toploader I had modded is up too.) The clone/emulator box also could have the R5's extra perks of HDMI, save/load, patching, etc. There would be a market albeit limited for it.

[bb_hood]

That's disgusting. I mean they're good games, but they're not $2500 worth of awesome and being what they are, they're finite, short, and will lead to being bored with them to sit disused on a shelf.

Some people like to collect rare games, even if they wont be playing them. Some people have no qualms about paying high prices on ebay. If you find that disgusting, then I am sorry, and you should probably just stay away from ebay altogether. The reality is you really wont find those games anywhere else, too many people want them, and all those game on that list (except for shadowgate and soldier blade) are very rare. Its just to be expected that those titles are gonna get super expensive. Dont like prices on these games now? Just wait 10 years.

[SparTonberry]

Don't SMS games just run on Genesis clone hardware any way? All you need is some kind of pass through and you're good to go. You'll notice nobody is rushing to clone SMS card game compatibility.

Weren't all card games (except for maybe a couple Japanese-exclusives, which I don't know if they even work on an SMS anyways) released on cart in Europe, at least? So if you really wanted to play, you could just buy those.

[Tanooki]

Some people like to collect rare games, even if they wont be playing them. Some people have no qualms about paying high prices on ebay. If you find that disgusting, then I am sorry, and you should probably just stay away from ebay altogether. The reality is you really wont find those games anywhere else, too many people want them, and all those game on that list (except for shadowgate and soldier blade) are very rare. Its just to be expected that those titles are gonna get super expensive. Dont like prices on these games now? Just wait 10 years.

Yeah I do find the amount of money being tossed around senseless wrecking yet another of my hobbies disgusting and I have every right to feel that way about it. I don't feel like it's some protected class of goods either, but the whole mess has turned into nothing but sheer madness and nonsense. I know you won't find the games much around, especially TG16 stuff and because of that the ones who still can buy are the ones willing to pay at least retail if not 3-10+ times the value at this rate due to the limited stock (compared to say the NES.) I don't have a like or dislike of them, I decided I'm never touching the Tg16 again because of it some years ago when it first turned bad (not to worse.) I resolved if I ever found the hardware at a reasonable local price (not likely) I'd just warez the crap out of the CDs and get a flash kit. TG16 and its assets are all pretty much dead, no one is going to care, and if they did, they should re-release the stuff cheap to undercut this stuff but since there's so little grand scale demand that isn't happening. As far as ebay goes I quit looking at NES, SNES and TG16 stuff on there for years now, other than to research selling stuff off I don't want anymore and to randomly keep up on stuff in case I accident into something. I'd rather piss a grand on a pinball machine or more that'll last me a long time due to the random nature of it and retained value than a couple of carts I could legally emulate (virtual console) or warez(rom, bootleg cart, everdrive.)

[retroguy]

For what it's worth, there are at least a couple of online stores that operate out of Japan but ship internationally and you can get a Duo from them for a somewhat reasonable price compared to what they go for on ebay, so it's not totally a lost cause.

[bb_hood]

but the whole mess has turned into nothing but sheer madness and nonsense.

Exaggerate much?

[Tanooki]

No honestly I feel that's pretty accurate completely. Go back 4 years ago and look up prices, now see where they've shot to. It fits very well. I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm not.

[bb_hood]

No, Im being serious. I fail to see how people spending $$$ on turbo grafx games qualifies as 'sheer madness'.

[celerystalker]

The point from me wasn't that it was madness. I get how this works. It was about the people talking like it's some kind of secret that's going to explode if a clone came out. My point was that the explosion has already happened. I don't care that it's gotten so high; it is what it is. My question is, given that the prices are already so high, why worry about a few extra collectors, and more importantly, why deny them the opportunity to play the games?

[Tanooki]

That was the whole point originally, said the same thing too. They've already made the price terrible, so why not have a clone as the secret has long been out there and the price proves it. The system would be welcome to most with the games already as odds are it likely would be some android core and have all those nice perks like the R5 has. The other stuff came up when it went in another direction.

[turboexpress]

I just disagree with clone systems because they sometimes act like introductory vessels to clueless gamers, waking up those gamers and creating collectards out of them. Not ALL of them, but some of them for sure.

I am not against any of this by any means, my point was simply to emphasize the possibility of prices going up with more gamers entering the market that want to own the ORIGINAL units and games.

It's not rocket science. common guys.

[celerystalker]

It's possible that new collectors could pop up from such a thing, but it's also not rocket science to observe that prices are already astoundingly high. A new group of collectors isn't going to make Turbo collecting much tougher than it already is. It's not a fertile ground of unknown, low-priced games, and it hasn't been for a long time. I'll go a different direction this time.

Last time I named off a bunch of the rare, highly sought after Turbo games and recent sold auction prices. Copies of Timeball... yes, freaking TIMEBALL, have been selling for $30-$60. Timeball. That game is easy to find and plays like crap. Moto Roader... a fun, yet extremely common racer, goes for $20-$30. Drop Off, a fourth-rate Arkanoid clone, $20-30. The cheapest, most common games for the system are now $10-15 at best... people have been paying over $20 for loose HuCards of games like Vigilante... I mean, it's a decent game, but that's like paying $20 for a copy of Kung Fu on NES.

I love the Turbo, and there are a handful of games I'd still like to pick up for it, even though I have about 3/4 of the US library and about 60 PCE games. I have to accept, though, that unless I stumble on a genius deal, I'm probably not getting all of them. Prices are that high, because it's already a hot ticket with collectors, not a protected secret so long as those damned kids don't hear about it. The lid blew off years ago, so why worry about it? It's not your secret and it's not mine. It's a well-known and thoroughly documented collection among video game circles. The "hidden gems" have been dug up and polished already, and new people are always gonna notice the sparkle.

Turbografx is not a secret, it was just under-appreciated in its time, and a kick-ass system. Neo Geo is not a secret. Virtual Boy is not a hidden gem. Hidden gems are only that until they catch on, they don't stay that way forever. They become grails and collector's items. If you want "hidden gems," you have to keep adapting and digging for them, you can't just sit on 25-year-old knowledge and expect that it will stay a secret garden.