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Thread: Retro Freak emulation console thoughts

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    Pretzel (Level 4)
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    Default Retro Freak emulation console thoughts

    I've read a few clickbait articles about this thing and to be honest I'm really left scratching my head as to why people seems so blown away by the thing. If you haven't read about it, it's a console planned by a Japanese company that's basically a Retron5 replacing the NES cart slot with a PCE/TG16 HuCard slot and the original controller ports with standard USB ports. It will also supposedly be compatible with Dualshock 3 and 4 pads.

    The major difference with it is that it allows you to save the ROM dump to internal memory so you don't have to bother physically inserting the cart again. In essence you could spend an afternoon shoving your cart collection in and out of it then have your collection archived, never having to dig the carts out again.

    I was really surprised by the amount of enthusiasm and positive press given to this thing. My first response was "Why would I want this?", which is strange coming from a guy that owns tons of clones and knockoff hardware. The whole pro/con discussion of it just being ROMs played through an emulator and so why bother dropping the cash with the Retron5 has been covered already, but being that this machine doesn't even force you to insert the cart again really drives that point home. Add to that you at least had the nostalgia or comfort factor of using original controllers with the Retron5 and now you don't even have that luxury unless you purchase some additional hardware, I'm really hard pressed to think of any reason to buy/use this over something like an Ouya or a modded Xbox.

    Even if I just limit my archive to the ROMs of the actual carts I own, I have a half-dozen options offhand right now to play these games on an HDTV with a Playstation or generic USB pad, and I'd hazard a guess all these options are cheaper than this new console would cost.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Blitzwing256's Avatar
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    if I could use it to conveniently dump carts for multiple systems? i'd buy it in a heartbeat, I have a ton of un-released stuff i'd love to share but don't want to send to anyone for many many systems.

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    Strawberry (Level 2) retroguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzwing256 View Post
    if I could use it to conveniently dump carts for multiple systems? i'd buy it in a heartbeat, I have a ton of un-released stuff i'd love to share but don't want to send to anyone for many many systems.
    Yes, please do. It's always cool to see stuff like that.
    Social Justice Warrior and proud of it!

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    Pear (Level 6) retroman's Avatar
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    I will stick with the original systems and carts, not this junk, or that retron 5 garbage either.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    Retron 5 isn't garbage, you're misinformed, as it appears if you stick to real carts so the lack of ability to run flash carts on R5 can't be a reason most tend to hate on it for as they like to get their games free.

    I don't see much of a reason to support the retro freak at all.
    - Dumps games, carts made useless
    - Requires purchase of addon module to use classic controllers
    - NO NES slot, Famicom only, so again requires another purchase of an adapter

    Other than that, I think it's just an unknown still, but I would venture it too won't play flash carts since it may or may not know how to read/dump those properly either to its internal storage.

    The only plus I can think of, if you want it, TG16/PCE HuCard support, and that'll be a very small minority of people who have them and would bother. And those who want to dump their games and shelve their carts, but at that point, might as well use the Ouya or any other Android based handheld/console/tablet wired into a TV.

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    celerystalker is a poindexter celerystalker's Avatar
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    It has to be the HuCard slot and ROM dumping. Personally, I don't care about ROM dumping, as I am barely computer literate enough to put up forum posts or type up an Excel document for work. The HuCard slot coupd be cool for a lot of people. I don't really care, as my Duo-R and US Turbografx have me covered. Maybe the upscaling would be nice.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    The upscaling is very nice going by what the R5 does. I think the HuCard thing is being overstated because we're seeing this pop up on classic gaming forums and discussion sites where there are TG fans who being a small minority are usually pretty vocal to get heard. I'd venture most won't give a damn, especially outside of Japan where it really did get proper support. That's why I said the trade-off of the loss of the NES cart slot won't be doing any favors.

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    Pretzel (Level 4)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzwing256 View Post
    if I could use it to conveniently dump carts for multiple systems? i'd buy it in a heartbeat
    Information so far is saying it will dump the carts in a way that the ROM can only be played back on the particular machine it is dumped from. I'm sure their method of protection will be easily circumvented but with this in mind you're also running the chance of getting garbage info thrown in and not a true 1:1 dump like you would with normal equipment that is available right now.

    Even if it just dumped clean 1:1 images I don't see that being a benefit for 99.9% of end users and it certainly shouldn't be a selling point that those people. Why shit your pants over the fact you can now dump your very own carts when even in the best case scenario you're going through all that expense and effort to produce a file that will be the exact same as you can download for free? In a real world application very, very few people own something that isn't already dumped.

    HuCard support is neat but that is a small selling point for users outside of Japan, and unlike the Mega Drive the predominant chunk of the best PCE games arent on cart format.

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    Insert Coin (Level 0) bootsector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retroman View Post
    I will stick with the original systems and carts, not this junk, or that retron 5 garbage either.
    I despise people who doesn't respect copyrights. Retron has made a dick move by shoving RetroArch inside a closed (in the source code sense) box called Retron5. So I agree with you that their product is garbage and harmful to the open source eco-system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retroman View Post
    I will stick with the original systems and carts, not this junk, or that retron 5 garbage either.
    I'll stick with my android emulators and roms, while still having room in my house, and money in my wallet.

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    I'll stick to just having fun gaming whatever form it takes.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    And in total reverse of that sentiment I was joyed by the filching of parts of retroarch after the fall out. The immaturity and whining that blew up all over it gave me a warm feeling watching all the whining that got it nowhere did so, otherwise I wouldn't have cared in the least bit. It did no harm to any eco-system other than some anal bruising to a few people. It took a useful piece of code, worked with their own code in a nice hybrid mash up of sorts, and gave us one hell of a great home system that runs a hell of a lot of old games better than the original hardware could ever hope to do anymore on a modern entertainment television.

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    Pretzel (Level 4)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsector View Post
    I despise people who doesn't respect copyrights. Retron has made a dick move by shoving RetroArch inside a closed (in the source code sense) box called Retron5.
    Although I do not have the link handy one article explicitly called this "another Retroarch based console". That was likely pure speculation by the author but I'd place a bet that it ends up being correct. Like the Retron5 it's hard to imagine a small unknown company pumping out worthwhile emulators for a dozen plus consoles from scratch.

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    Retroarch uses other developers emulators and just sews them up in one unintuitive app. What the hell copyrights do they own?

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    Given it showed up within a reasonable amount of time since Hyperkin put all that R5 source up on their website, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think they borrowed their code which in turn used the easily had retroarch files. By the fact the retroarch side of things stomped its little feet a bit, blew hot air, and effectively got no one to really care enough to help them sue Hyperkin this group rightly figures they have a blank check to do the same thing too due to that precedent.

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    Alex (Level 15) Custom rank graphic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    And those who want to dump their games and shelve their carts, but at that point, might as well use the Ouya or any other Android based handheld/console/tablet wired into a TV.
    That right there is basically why there's no need for owning the Retron 5, once you're dumping and emulating games there's no need to constantly back up the cartridges every single time. It's like going back in time with cart copiers from the 90's that force you to copy the floppies to the RAM every time because there's no built in memory to store the games.

    Imagine if computer users had to deal with this stuff. Every time you want to use MS Office you have to insert the install disc before you're allowed to use it. Usually with any computer games, once you install them fully, you don't need to keep taking the discs out every time you want to run the software. You don't need to uninstall the software every time you turn the computer off. PC collectors don't seem to mind not needing the original media while playing the game.

    The only main convenience with having cart slots built in instead of just downloading ROMs is saving some time. Downloading each game, transferring the game to portable media, and switching that media between a PC and the console takes more time. If you own the game, just plugging it into the console once would be faster.

    Another convenience to having a console in general with saving games internally is the ability to take it with you while travelling with your entire library of games. No need to take all of your games too, just take the console and you'll have everything. Either to a friends house or taking it to the cottage, taking a small console to plug into a TV makes sense.

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    Kirby (Level 13) Tanooki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryReign View Post
    Retroarch uses other developers emulators and just sews them up in one unintuitive app. What the hell copyrights do they own?
    They own their own code, but they're getting all butthurt acting like the emulators themselves were theirs and they got robbed. R5 specifically doesn't really use the retroarch menu. R5 has its own menu system and it is based upon a plugin system, plugin format that retroarch uses, and in turn uses the emulators OTHERS made in their time (not retroarch's) that work within. Most of them were GPL and that implies terms, which at first Hyperkin didn't honor but then did making the source open on their site, but the SNES emulator has no right to be publicly used for money. The problem is that is SNES9X and the original pair of makers don't even have a thing to do with it anymore, yet retain control, and all the people who took it up since do their own updates under the original program. Hyperkin would have had to find the original duo and all the others likely to and get permission which probably wouldn't even be possible, so I imagine they just said screw it and let it fly as is. It's kind of why I totally poo poo the whole whinfest over it because with all the begging for lawyers to help them sue Hyperkin, they couldn't find one that would take them to court which to me says a lot as Hyperkin isn't exactly loaded with a big wallet and a team of lawyers like a Nintendo or Sony would be.


    Gameguy I find your post amusing, but wrong. Sure they're similar, but the Ouya isn't even using a game you own in most cases, it's just people grabbing warez off emuparadise or wherever and throwing it on a SD card or something to use it, at least the R5 requires proof of ownership and due to how they rigged it, you have to keep the game too, it's not a one and done copy solution. You're right in a way it is like 90s copy devices. I'd rather not imagine a computer, because the R5 isn't a PC, it's a 80s/90s cartridge device so I don't see the parallel. I mean I get where you're going, but you're 100% missing the point of the Retron5. It serves a good many useful purproses and this argument has been had many times before back and forward already in the years old R5 thread so why drag this one down going over old crap no one is going to agree upon that didn't then as they won't now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Gameguy I find your post amusing, but wrong. Sure they're similar, but the Ouya isn't even using a game you own in most cases, it's just people grabbing warez off emuparadise or wherever and throwing it on a SD card or something to use it, at least the R5 requires proof of ownership and due to how they rigged it, you have to keep the game too, it's not a one and done copy solution. You're right in a way it is like 90s copy devices. I'd rather not imagine a computer, because the R5 isn't a PC, it's a 80s/90s cartridge device so I don't see the parallel. I mean I get where you're going, but you're 100% missing the point of the Retron5. It serves a good many useful purproses and this argument has been had many times before back and forward already in the years old R5 thread so why drag this one down going over old crap no one is going to agree upon that didn't then as they won't now.
    I was mostly talking about the Retro Freak console rather than the Ouya, mostly because that's what this thread is about. The Retro Freak is including cart slots. The Ouya would be convenient to use though, even if you don't own the games you're playing on it. Complaining about copyright violations with games but being ok with copyright violations with the emulation software being used is pretty much hypocritical.

    You can't see a parallel with two hardware devices both capable of playing old games by running emulation software? Mostly baffled by your opinion that this Retro Freak is missing the point because it can back up the games internally, while the Retron 5 is better because it's intentionally more limited. They both play games the same way through backing them up, and playing them with emulation software. Really not sure why the Retron 5 would be the better of the two by being crippled. If you really want to use your cartridges every time then you can delete your games whenever you're done playing.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Emperor Megas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gameguy View Post
    If you really want to use your cartridges every time then you can delete your games whenever you're done playing.
    I've got nothing.

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    The difference with the RF over the R5 I have an issue with where I don't agree is the lack of the NES slot, that'll hurt it outside of Asian markets (and also charging extra for spare parts that should be part of it allowing the use of normal controllers. And then the game issue, you dump it to the box, that's the same as using an Ouya to me, you're removing the physical media and just using an oversize flash kit in a box. Once you load it up with a bunch of warez you lose the value of the game because no longer does the game matter, it's just another computer loaded with ROMS. When you have the game, buy the game, place it in there each time, you're invested in using it. The RF is just another ROM runner even if it comes with the ability to dump your game to run the ROMS, it's still just a flash kit. The only way the R5 is crippled is if you're into piracy or laziness because it won't allow rom dumps (without hacking) and it makes you have the effort of using and owning the actual game to use it.

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