Nintendo NX to be released in 2016

[Tanooki]

They're right though. If they go with no power and no third party with another console it'll be the Wii situation yet again. The Wii itself was pretty much that bad too, people just gloss over it because it has a few good third party gems that are unique and well you know those 100M units sold too, but it's still a third party developer flop, just not as obvious as the WiiU due to the lousy sales of the systems.

They're not entirely right either. That's why you can say being weaker can work out, you just need to angle the argument toward a unified scalable system setup so people can choose home or portable, and have that OS on it be something stupid easy to write for and port to, like an Android derivative. If there's one thing they are good at is making people money with eshop games with the indie stuff they've received. Imagine if they could get all those good android games that use a game pad shoveled over with the IAP type garbage removed, like that Shield handheld/console setup. That nvidia device is no PS4, but it doesn't look like a slouch in the least bit either, and it doesn't compete with PS4 too and doesn't need to. Nintendo needs to muscle into that micro-console type market and dominate it as it's the high performance vs lower costs parts market that keeps the things more affordable.

[Leo_A]

There's no point in re-entering the horsepower race to attract third parties with this coming generation of Nintendo hardware. That's because by and large, they're not even ignoring the Wii U because of the lack of power.

It's only in 2015 that we're even starting to see 3rd parties begin to eschew support for the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3, like Codemasters departing with their Formula One franchise that will be an XB1/PS4 exclusive from here on out on consoles and Activision outsourcing Call of Duty this year on the 360/PS3. Yet the minimum 3rd party support that the Wii U had to start with, was largely discontinued a year or two ago when most 3rd party content that the Wii U missed out on was virtually guaranteed at making an appearance on last gen hardware.

Nintendo needs to right their own ship first. Get it correct enough and the 3rd parties will start to return on their own as they chase customer's dollars. Then when they're moving in the right direction again and seeing publishers going out of their way to sell product to Nintendo's install base, they can start considering rejoining the console arms race to again seriously compete on a much more direct basis.

Right now, reaching the horsepower levels of the PS4 and XB1 and taking it a step even further in anticipation of successors to these consoles that could be barely three years away, would just be throwing money away unless Nintendo views such a level of capabilities as key to them delivering their vision of next-gen Nintendo gaming.

But when I look at games like Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8, I honestly don't see the need there.

[Az]

Why not port those games digitally to test the waters then?

Well, technically you can buy a few DS games on the WiiU Virtual Console.

[kupomogli]

There's no point in re-entering the horsepower race to attract third parties with this coming generation of Nintendo hardware. That's because by and large, they're not even ignoring the Wii U because of the lack of power.

This. Third parties ignore Nintendo hardware because the fanbase ignore their games. Why publish a game on a console where it won't sell? It's not like developers didn't try to sell their games on the Wii U and were pretty much met with a middle finger. Resident Evil Revelations was ported from the 3DS to the PS360 and Wii U, but Revelations 2 skipped the Wii U and the Vita is actually getting the game instead. Resident Evil Remake and Zero were exclusives on the Gamecube with a port over to the Wii, but the HD versions skipped the Wii U. EA was one of the early supporters for the Wii U, even releasing with the best version of Need For Speed Most Wanted which happened to get sales so bad that it practically killed the dev. Ubisoft continued developing for the Wii U further, but they've even came out and stated they're no longer supporting the system after Watch Dogs due to consistently low sales figures. With how loud Nintendo fans on the internet are with the port begging, you'd think there'd be a lot more third party sales. Even Vita is getting more multiconsole titles than the Wii U(Revelations 2 for example.)

[Tanooki]

Other than a very select few like RE Revelations, Rayman, and ZombiU, the stuff third parties got the middle finger for they soundly deserved. Go back to the launch, what did they offer? Year+ old games with minimal updates, and even then some were horribly halfassed to cause graphics and frame rate troubles like with Black Ops 2. And while I gave the nod to Rayman, that was exclusive and promised to be, then wasn't and it pissed off the buyers and I saw plenty of revenge talk online of just not buying it. You really can't expect to peddle 1-2 year old games with minimal touch pad support, or in the case of WatchDogs just being lazy and releasing it very late with less stuff to it, and think you're going to have a million seller. I do legitimately feel bad for Capcom and a select few others who put a game out where they actually tried if it sold poorly, but most of them were screw you releases from the get go. By my buying habits I would have as a former WiiU owner looked like part of the problem because I refused to buy that crap.

And to be fair NFSMW on the WiiU wasn't that good, it had some serious bug problems and while the developer talked it up as the best release, it may have been but it was less stable. Also if you want to be more fair, you might want to include that EA tried to strong arm Nintendo into helping code the game, then also while getting no publisher credit (or any at all) into advertising it which Nintendo didn't. EA decided to sulk, release it, not advertise it, yet another one released very well later than the other systems, then whined and used it as an example that games don't sell on WiiU. It was a made to fail trap excuse which is sad as it could have been otherwise, and I did own that one.

I get you sticking it to Nintendo, screw them as far as the WiiU went, they deserve it entirely which is why I got rid of mine, but at least be honest if you're going to call out games where the developers set them up to fail on purpose.

Try and make a list of games third parties made where they were not gimped, not released later than other systems at the time, or better yet, were a unique title. It may take a little while, and you'll find the list is sadly very very small.

From memory I had RER, Rayman, NFS, ME3, ZombiU and I think that's it for 3rd party other than I was about to get Bayonetta when I sold it, and the rest were first party titles (I think I had a dozen games.)

[kupomogli]

^Yes, a lot of them were ports, but what does that matter to those who have never owned a PS360 and PC? A lot of the Nintendo fans picking up the Wii U more likely never even owned or gamed on those consoles. In many of these games, the Wii U version received additional content making it the version to own. A lot of multiconsole games that were released on the same day were largely ignored by the fanbase. There were some games that couldn't be released on the same day simply because they didn't coincide with the Wii U release date. Developers wanted to take advantage of the biggest gaming months of the year and already had planned release dates, it's not their fault the game had to be delayed a month or so to be launched on the Wii U in late November.

As for Rayman Legends, they just weren't confident with getting poor sales from their other titles that Nintendo fans would even support this title, and sure, the game was no longer exclusive and it was delayed for release on multiple. The developer did add exclusive content for the Wii U and a Wii U only challenge levels that released for free long before the game did release. Nintendo fans raged because of the game being delayed to be ported to other consoles, but how do you know if this is "it's no longer exclusive for a Nintendo console so fuck them?" or if they would have even bought the game at all, and it was just fuel for Nintendo fans to hate on yet another company was giving them support? Nintendo fans still got the game, they received more content, but ignore the game because it's on other consoles. What a bunch of babies.

Personally, I knew it would have been a bad move to announce that it'd no longer be exclusive and really think that Ubisoft should have released it as planned on the Wii U while silently developing the other releases and announce them at a later time. This would have had more people purchase the game on Wii U for no other reason than it being exclusive, the game would have received constant praise from Nintendo fanboys about it being the best game ever, and with that word of mouth when finally announcing and releasing the game to other consoles, others would purchase the game because of the great impressions that were received. It's kind of like Mass Effect, a game that doesn't deserve all the great ratings it's received, and for no reason other than being exclusive did the game get overhyped and overpraised by an entire fanbase that the series happened to blow up and become a favored series last gen on all consoles.

[Leo_A]

I don't really quite agree with either of you.

Sure, the average Nintendo console owner these days isn't too likely to be supporting major AAA console releases on said console. But the real killer here was and is Nintendo's install base rather than buying habits and technical prowess. You may not be able to rake in record numbers, but if the Wii U was at least selling modestly well and was approaching 20 million units sold today, they'd of had an opportunity to succeed at some level with basic 360/PS3 conversions of the latest titles.

And to be fair NFSMW on the WiiU wasn't that good, it had some serious bug problems and while the developer talked it up as the best release, it may have been but it was less stable.

I've said it before, but Nintendo wasn't at fault for Need for Speed failing. The version shipped late and cost full price at a time when the 360/PS3 versions could be easily had new for half that, and didn't even include all the DLC. And Electronic Arts didn't spend anything to market it to try to get the word out. It's a shame since it really is the definitive version of what is a good game (That most of the few that played it, liked), but this is more on EA than anyone else.

Try and make a list of games third parties made where they were not gimped, not released later than other systems at the time, or better yet, were a unique title. It may take a little while, and you'll find the list is sadly very very small.

Many of the 3rd party experiences on the Wii U have been in fine form. Most of those with issues just carried those problems over from the 360/PS3 versions. And some of these had to arrive late out of necessity, since their multiplatform release predated the launch of the Wii U.

Can hardly fault something like Mass Effect 3. It's a fine experience on the Wii U, but it just never stood a chance. Mass Effect fans already had ways to play the series and ME3 launched ~six months before the Wii U. And porting over all three in a single reasonably priced package was just going to be too risky, even though a Mass Effect Trilogy release would've been its best chance to reach those that somehow didn't own something like a Xbox 360 and were new to this hit franchise.

Other than a very select few like RE Revelations, Rayman, and ZombiU, the stuff third parties got the middle finger for they soundly deserved. Go back to the launch, what did they offer? Year+ old games with minimal updates, and even then some were horribly halfassed to cause graphics and frame rate troubles like with Black Ops 2. You really can't expect to peddle 1-2 year old games with minimal touch pad support, or in the case of WatchDogs just being lazy and releasing it very late with less stuff to it, and think you're going to have a million seller.

Watch Dogs deserved to fail. It slipped six months after all the other versions (How many Wii U owners interested in major releases from huge publishers like Ubisoft lacked one of the other platforms to play a game like this on?), likely wasn't marketed hardly at all, and shared the severe technical failings of the 360/PS3 versions. And it launched at full price and I bet if there was any DLC, it didn't include it on the disc or even receive it via paid downloads off the eShop.

But Black Ops II didn't I felt, since it was a fine experience on the Wii U. Its biggest issue if there is one is in the area of DLC. I just played the campaign, but I know that it hasn't received DLC in a timely manner and some hasn't appeared at all. Rather unforgivable for a title that is centered so much on multiplayer. But where its price, release date, and technical details are concerned, it was a fine rendition of this multiplatform title.

And while I gave the nod to Rayman, that was exclusive and promised to be, then wasn't and it pissed off the buyers and I saw plenty of revenge talk online of just not buying it.

Rayman is just foolish. It shouldn't matter to Wii U owners that it went multiplatform. Especially when the delay to make it more commercially viable by taking it multiplatform actually benefited the experience with substantially increased content. At least Ubisoft followed through with its release despite it being clear cut at that point that the Wii U wasn't going to be a sales success or lucrative enough to continue pursuing.

[RP2A03]

At this point, I think Nintendo needs to stop trying to court third parties. The only base Nintendo has left, by and large, are those who favor Nintendo's games; and Nintendo's games are so different in style from the rest of the market that it creates a toxic atmosphere for third parties. If Nintendo is to survive, they need to cater to the niche they have and find a way to make more of their own games.

[Tanooki]

Leo I think you kind of in a way agree on both are points, just variations of it. Clearly there were problems. Third parties brought it on themselves, yet Nintendo brought it down on the WiiU equally so. The whole thing is one big screwed pooch basically.


Now what I don't agree is that Nintendo should stop courting third parties. Ignoring physical games, they've done well on the eshop getting game makers on that to put some really awesome download only titles there and reports come out things do nicely there too, and because of Nintendo's better payment policies compared to the Wii era they do fine. Again it's why I say time and again, they need to do an android backed scalable box that works as a choice as a handheld with lower performance but equal smoothness on the go, or a full blown console that uses 1 form of media. Back that up with the eshop, allow even more leniency short of allowing shovelware bloat crap you find on ios/google play and they'd do nicely for it. If you make it brainless to bring a game to it, and it being a choice of system that runs the same media, and having superior potency to the Nvidia Shield console can do currently you can get some really stunning experiences on drastically lower production budgets which means easier profit and lower prices games either download or physical. Much third parties are going towards the mobile aspect, so it would be a good gateway system to rope that cash and interest.

[BlastProcessing402]

From memory I had RER, Rayman, NFS, ME3, ZombiU and I think that's it for 3rd party other than I was about to get Bayonetta when I sold it, and the rest were first party titles (I think I had a dozen games.)

Bayonetta's first party. Nintendo paid for and published it.

[Tanooki]

I was thinking from a development standpoint as it was Platinum wasn't it? I mean I have 3DS games Nintendo published, but I don't consider them Nintendo games in the least bit because Square-Enix or someone else made them.

[PreZZ]

Only thing nintendo needs is decent hardware, solid online service, and a good controller. Add trophies and i can absolutely ditch my ps4 and xboxone. One system to rule them all... i would buy my nhls, cod, etc. on a nintendo console if it wasnt dumb down release, no dlc, and crappy online system.

[Tanooki]

I felt that way for the last 2 cycles. And the wii ended up being a wii, a big shlongy wii. All I've wanted is a return to the pre-3D (or just handheld) era where I can get one system and be happy with all the inside and especially the diverse outside support and Nintendo pissed that away completely. If the NX somehow got that variety back in spades, then I'd be on board day one but I just don't see them wising up.

[dendawg]

IMHO, Nintendo's in a no-win situation. If the NX is under-powered again, the haters will immediately dog pile it. If it's on-par spec-wise with the PS5 & XBOX Two, the "Nintendo's for kiddies, fuck Nintendo." bullshit will start up yet again.

[Tupin]

Nah, Western third parties just immediately want to dump Nintendo. It goes like this:

1. Make a bad game for Nintendo system
2. No one buys it because it looks bad
3. "Well we'd love to make games for Nintendo systems but people just aren't buying them!"

Third parties hate Nintendo systems because their owners are "biased" towards Nintendo games, which is true. They don't buy no effort third party junk when they can get Nintendo stuff, so instead of trying to make a quality product up to those standards, they just half ass it and use that as an excuse to never touch Nintendo again.

[FieryReign]

It's their own fault. Being the arrogant company they are. They have their fanboys who think they can do no wrong, living in a fantasy world. That ain't enough anymore.

[Tupin]

Yeah, just go ahead and blame fans and say that nothing pleases them. That will make them want to buy your games that you totally don't half ass.

[Tanooki]

They're both equally to blame.

Nintendo feeds into the bullshit of the 1st party only zealot fanboys by not trying to support third parties with their passive aggressive behavior towards hardware development and courting game makers. Nintendo will see the zealots and figure they'll just buy it because they do, and it has been a pattern going strongly throughout this century so far. Because of that they will go cheap and get artsy trying new stuff as they have a good league of essentially suckers who will jump in because they made it (as does SOny and MS too.) Secondarily passive aggressively they'll act like they care more and talk about pulling in this or that group and it either wins major sales like the Wii or it blows up in their face like the WiiU. Then you have the fanboy tools on the consumer side who see such great things graced upon them with the unique hardware from Nintendo just 'getting how cool' that stuff is while others just don't get it, and they eat it up and are fine with months of wait between games because they'd rather wait on quality over quantity because Nintendo just rains down gems like a thunderstorm in their little world. When someone outside sees this they get pissed. They either ignore Nintendo, shit on Nintendo, 'test' the market (disingenuously or honestly) to see if they can break the wall, and regardless if it's a 8-10/10 game or sad piece of mediocrity at best they tend to oddly sell about the same -- shitty, so then they point fingers, and bail. But because the third parties never want to come out and dump on game buyers as it could harm them, they'll call out Nintendo being the sole problem when they're just half of the mess. Nintendo and blind fans (not the smart ones) are like pisces, ying and yang,..one cyclically turns on the other and screws themselves in a dog running in a circle to eat tail moment that never ends.

I saw the writing on the wall with that early on with the Wii but felt stuck with my purchase and barely used it if ever the last 2 years I had it. When third parties actually did show they had games and seemed to care and talked up licenses up into and through the WiiU's launch I thought the problem was resolving itself and bought one (big mistake) and instead it got far uglier and faster than the spotty wii support ever was. That's why I've dumped on the thing and won't be rushing into the NX if it's just another console. I was pissed at the game makers because it seemed like they set Nintendo up to fail, but the more I looked at the rabid shit spewed online versus the posted sales data with the griping, I couldn't blame them nearly as much as I did before as they did have a hand with year old shitty ports, but beyond that it was all Nintendo and their fans circle jerking third party games into the waste basket.

[FieryReign]

Didn't help releasing 2 underpowered consoles in a row with stupid gimmicks. With the goofiest names in existence. They're better off sticking with portables and silly plastic figurines. And maybe making the portable comfortable/ergonomic to hold for more than 10 minutes, instead of making them for their homeland people. They must not have a clue about hand size outside of Japan. Learn how to implement a 2nd analog without the need for an extra peripheral or redesign(another stupid name) with a useless nipple. They shouldn't expect people to be finger contortionists.

[kupomogli]

Even though the Wii U was as powerful as the PS3 and 360, it's having to compete against consoles that have sold 80 million units a piece. The die hard Nintendo fans are well known not to purchase much more than first party Nintendo games and the rare exclusive, and those that are multiconsole owners already have dozens of games on the other two consoles so they use them as their primary consoles.

If the NX is a console only and it's as powerful as the PS4, they're going to be up against two consoles that have sold 40 million and 20 million. The only plus side is that the games on the Xbox One and PS4 are finally starting to pick up so in terms of quality games, the NX won't be too far behind. Atleast with the portable console hybrid with the power of the Wii U, they can sell to two markets, a market that wants handheld games, and a market that wants console games. The developers will be able to develop one game and capitalize on both markets.