That is interesting, I had no idea of it until you mentioned it. It shouldn't be expensive since all it would be is a pin adapter with no need for additional hardware.Originally Posted by Leo_A
If they're going to do that then there's hope they'll make a TG16 adapter, or release a model with wider cart slots for 32x support. I realize 32x is a niche market but being that the emulator already supports it very little effort would be needed to get it running.
I think your best bet would be an unofficial coordinated campaign to get another system added, or just a heap of a lot of uncoordinated complaining and begging could get the TG16 added because it's emulated amazingly well and the documentation is easily out there to do it, plus with 100s of games it makes sense. The 32X is a tough sell.
They're not programming their own emulators, Tanooki. So how well documented that hardware may be, doesn't really matter.
The biggest question in regards to the technical feasibility of adding in TG16 support would be the state of TG16 emulation on Android, since that's where their software would be sourced from to implement this.
If it's satisfactory, hopefully we get a HuCard adapter someday. If the economics justify a Game Gear cartridge adapter, I'm sure that a Hucard adapter would also be justifiable.
Is there an Android based 32X emulator of satisfactory performance?
I assume that there isn't, at least when this system was being developed, since there's otherwise no reason why they wouldn't of supported it out of the box. If it's came about since then, it's a shame that the Retron 5 cartridge slot can't accommodate 32X cartridges, judging by your post.
If there wasn't a physical barrier to the slightly different proportioned 32X cartridges, all they'd of needed then was to update their firmware.
Last edited by Leo_A; 07-17-2015 at 05:58 PM.
Oh I know that, I just don't care, and when I meant documented I meant source they can use, tool for their toy, and add it in nice and clean. You put it out there publicly, you're asking for it, it's just how the internet works unless you have better lawyers than the other guy. TG16 emulation is potent, Mednafen has an Android release and that one is solid, mind you that's a $4 buy and that dude knowing the name if he didn't license it to his benefit would attack hyperkin if they used it. The problem I think is they are the ONLY one, so it would be you deal with him, get tied down stealing it, or just don't do it. The emulator probably is the only one because it's so damn good no one cares to compete since there is a free ad covered one of it by him as well.
There is another choice though, but I will say this, Libretro (retroarch) does cover both the PCE but I'm uncertain what emulator it uses for that frontend, but the 32X uses PicoDrive which has compatibility problems so that would be a NO on that one.
They stole the source code for their SNES emulator. If you get a retron 5 buy a used one. Don't support that shit.
See and to that I would tell anyone to support them and buy it so more products like this come to market because its a nice happy middle ground between emulation and hardware that allows a lot of nice perks. If the SNES9X owner cared that much theyd go after them, and the blowhard libretro doesnt own any of those emulators as theyre just binding public source under a nice front end theyve whipped up so I care to listen to none of that guys whiny grandstanding bullshit as theyre not his emulators either. SNES9x is a hot mess of a lot of people but it comes back to Gary Hendersen I believe the creator was and if he doesnt protest its a moot issue.
I agree to buy one used, The only experience I have had is kind of an isolated test that didn't turn out to well for me. I have a local play n trade that has one hooked up to an hdtv [i do not know if led,lcd,plasma] But If you are a speed runner on fast paced games, your time will be off. It has a noticeable lag to me. Also I do not know if its a video conversion causing this or the controller having an input lag. I know this is not important to most people but if you love fast games on your crt then don't move onto the retron 5. But this is mostly irrelevant simply because most people interested in the retron 5, are looking into it because they dont have a crt and retro consoles. Just a thought. Hope it helps.
You're not much to have a fair opinion if you have only used a used one in an isolated test so it's not fair to really say so now is it? The notable lag is dependent not on the system but the poor quality of the television and its ms lag in refresh time. Something that's over the 30ms mark will appear lagged, but if you play one under that or through a computer screen it's solid. I would not expect a store using a cheapo tv for display to go for quality.
My interest is that a CRT is an outdated waste of space with no value other than light guns games at this rate. And it is because I don't have time for long to sit on a TV due to having a 3 year old around where I can play an old 80s or 90s game and hope to get anywhere without shutting it off and since this thing hot saves your spot (or can do solid save/load states) it's an asset. The other emulator perks along with the HDMI crispness all count for something. I mostly play old games from the 20th century on the TV, not modern, and I have no regrets having either of my original systems back in their boxes. In the end that'll be the people shooting for this along with those you said, who want to get into old games and want a good solid well priced catch-all solution and this far beats out any of that retrobit and yobo garbage on the market.
This is the post I agree with the most. Instead of buying one of these for so much money, just use any computer produced in the last 10 years. Plus it would save you the hassle of dumping and re-dumping every game you want to play every single time.
Yet again that defeats the purpose of using games you actually paid for. The only want to get there is to get that retrode device, if you can since they don't make it anymore I don't believe, and one for each system you want to play games for which will add up really fast. I agree if you could get them cheaper than the R5 that would be the best way to go bar none, but it's not the case sadly. I'd rather run a line from my laptop to the tv and have a retrode that'll do the NES, SNES, and GBA for all gameboy, so I can fire up stuff via bsnes, fceux, and no$gba but that's just not going to happen.
Having to redump games each time because the system chooses to delete them defeats the purpose of using an emulation box. When DVDs come with digital copies included, it's not expected that the DVD is useless after the digital version is used(it's a bit pointless including a digital copy as you can just rip any DVD yourself but that's a different issue). People who own rare first edition books might still have an ebook version for more practical use. It's just another option available for convenience, just as playing games you own with emulation doesn't mean owning physical copies are pointless. It would be more convenient to just play the games stored in the console rather than having to get up and get the game you want to play, especially if you keep or move your physical copies into storage later on. You can't store your games away with this console, they have to be kept accessible.
You guys are making too much out of it dumping cartridges.
People aren't buying this because they want a clone console that dumps cartridges, nor does it defeat the purpose of a clone system designed to play the libraries of multiple classic systems just because it's setup in this way.
People buy this to play classic games, period. Technicalities with how it's achieved don't enter the equation for almost everyone. And except for a few of the largest games like certain GBA games that have 30-40 second load times, it's almost invisible to the end-user.
It's a near meaningless aspect, outside of someone that happens to be playing a lot of JRPG's on the GBA side and such and are actually affected by the load times, or has a collection of homebrews and other rarities that have spotty identification support at best on the Retron 5. I could side with complaints such as the Retron 5 not maintaining the last dumped cartridge image until a different title is loaded, but I just don't see the issue with its basic operation itself.
It's like the guy that was always saying that SD rom loading "defeats the purpose" of this thing. I thought this was for enjoying classic games? Some people in these threads need to take their blinders off and realize that just because they're not interested in a particular feature, doesn't mean that others aren't. The more well implemented options and features that the Retron 5 has, the better.
It would certainly be nice if they'd allow that feature as well. Rom loading, both with your own cartridge images ripped via the Retron 5 itself and stored on an inserted SD card and those you've downloaded, would be a great addition to the Retron 5's repertoire and help complete the circle and truly make this an all-purpose device for playing the libraries of these systems that they've covered
Sadly, I feel as if Hyperkin doesn't have a solid grasp on the legal side of things, and is overly paranoid while other manufacturers, most notably AtGames, have implemented the feature on some of their Genesis systems without any sign of an issue with major publishers like Electronic Arts that heavily supported the Genesis back in the day.
That or they're withholding what would be a major feature addition for the inevitable Retron 5 follow-up, and are just using this legality claim like they did to explain away support for expensive multicarts that many of their primary market have invested in through the years (Despite the fact that the very way that the Retron 5 operates, is the actual reason why they don't work).
Last edited by Leo_A; 07-20-2015 at 10:37 PM.
I'm not making too much about it, other people are. The point of the system is to use real game carts, it doesn't matter if it makes a copy before firing it up, most people probably won't even realize it. Just like most won't have pirate carts, bootlegs, bootlegs lied about being repros, multicarts, or flash kits. It's bought to throw in Mario, Mega Man, Zelda, Castlevania, Turtles and whatever else, that's it.
I find it amazing how many game collectors find this entire concept confusing or that it somehow makes the thing an inconvient lesser or useless box. No, people who think that, don't get it, or choose to not get it for the sake of arguing about the thing or the parent company because they have some vendetta against them. Ultimately to the masses which it's intended for, it's a modern console that runs the old games for a lot of systems and does so with HDMI and lots of nice perks, not because it dumps games and sucks because it can't be a warez box storing all of those copies or because it won't fire up roms directly from the SD card slot. Boo hoo.
The load times on the newest beta release are back to negligible because they restored the fast loading, but yes without that 30sec+ load time sucked.
You're right, Hyperkin is very paranoid. When I was talking with the tech all that time it had come up more than once, and the people in both the US and HK offices are paranoid about NOA or NCL suing the crap out of them for having a warez box because it would allowing it to load and copy(dump) roms make it on the level of the R4, CycloDS, and other goodies Nintendo has been good at trying to stomp out of existence. So they while they can do it in their home office, have it disabled for the public out of fear of an injunction getting them barred from being sold in the US retail on/offiline locations. The feature is being withheld entirely over legal paranoia. They feel even if they were in the right, they don't have the money to sit on to ride out a NOA lawsuit that could tie them up for years and bankrupt them along the way. It's not only always what the law says, but if you can afford to keep in business with your product forced off the market while paying a lot of legal fees too.
I'm going to assume like you that they withheld the feature for a possible upgraded version, hoping people will rebuy it later on the same way Nintendo keeps remaking versions of their consoles. Otherwise it's baffling to me that Hyperkin would be so cautious with possible legal issues with people possibly abusing their console to pirate games, yet simultaneously have no problems with stealing the emulators that their console will use to play the games. It's like not wanting to park illegally while you run into a store to rob it.
While backing up games to a removable SD card would be most convenient, even just backing up games to an internal memory storage would be fine. It's like giving the option to install games to a hard drive with more modern consoles, except you wouldn't need a hard drive as the games are so small. If you can only play games backed up yourself, there's no issue of piracy. Having the SD card slot does allow you to apply translation patches, but that's what's allowing people to play pirated games on it right now. Having an internal storage memory instead would eliminate this entirely. What's a more convenient option to have, allowing translation patches or eliminating cart swapping?
As for other possible reasoning with this console as presented by Tanooki, there are several things I just don't agree with. Namely that this is just for "casual players". It's for people who have physical copies of old games, games out of production for over 20 years and not available in regular retail stores anymore. The only way people have games for this console is if they go out of their way to find copies at specialty stores or buying them online. If it's for people who just want to play their old games again, would they be willing to pay $140 on impulse? Most likely these people would only have a few games for one or two systems anyway, why would they pay so much for compatibility with 5 consoles which includes imports? It's not an impulse purchase, especially since it's only available online or at specialty retailers. If people found games for cheap at a yard sale, most likely they'll not want to pay much for the consoles either. Personally I could find all legitimate systems compatible with the same games for less than $140, if it's just about the cheapest option to play actual cartridges.
If it's aimed at actual collectors(the people who actually would care about playing multiple consoles including imports, stuff casual players won't have), I find it a poor assumption to say that most won't care or pay attention to how it actually works. Though it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of people out there collecting games were just ignorant and loose with cash, I'm assuming that's not who this console is specifically aimed at. There's the whole compatibility with HDMI for modern displays, but if you don't care about having an authentic display for the games which includes light gun support, why would you care about running authentic carts? Using it on an HDTV is more convenient, having to access all of your games isn't convenient.
Right now for me, I don't have shelves full of games. They're stored in boxes because I don't have a lot of space. I don't play my games as often as I'd like because I'd have to unpack them and pack them back up afterwards, looking for specific games would take time too. The Retron 5 won't help me with that, I would still need to dig out my carts every time I want to play them. Makes no sense when you can just play them all on a PC in the same quality, just more conveniently. Or you can burn games to disc with emulators and play them on consoles, or more modernly with USB sticks.
As for Hyperkin fearing a lawsuit from Nintendo as it would sink them, it's the same reason they feel it's ok to steal the code from emulators. They know the creators of the emulators can't afford the legal costs to take them to court, so Hyperkin has no problem with stealing from them.
I agree
I debated this quite a bit in earlier threads, but I feel strongly that they've all but priced themselves out of the casual marketplace that past clones like the Retro Duo likely derived a significant percentage of their sales from.
This thing is primarily aimed directly at us. That said, I don't agree that the fact that it dumps cartridges is relevant for most, nor do I think it's pointless that it has cartridge support.
But I certainly agree that they've missed the boat by also not allowing us the option to store the images that we've ripped (And either allow us to load it up without the cartridge inserted by selecting it from a menu, or perhaps near instantly load it up without bothering to fully dump it yet again or messing around with a menu when the original cartridge is loaded and identified).
That and support for rom images loaded by the user to their SD card should've been basic functionality. This is no more illegal than any MP3 player is. There are fully legal uses for it, but if we don't kid ourselves, the majority of their use is centered on copyright infringement. Yet they're fully legal and acceptable devices to design, manufacturer, sell, and use.
Last edited by Leo_A; 07-21-2015 at 06:18 PM.
You'd be amazed at the power of nostalgia or those who have none that find the classics interesting and have money burning a hole in their pockets.
The term "specialty store" makes a game store sound like it's some rare thing that's not for the unwashed heathens of casual gamer. The city I work in, which has about 50K people, has three stores that carry pretty much all generations of games along with other items of interest. A smaller city 30 some miles north has TWO. In these areas of Wisconsin, that's huge compared to even five years ago. And in both places, these stores are not "out of the way".
Back when Gamestop (or was it EB?) started carrying NES and such older games again, some adults would see the titles and get excited and would buy the old with whatever new they were getting. Some would chatter about going online to get a system or more games. This was probably a decade ago. Now with retro being even more en vogue, what would be the big deal dropping $130 on a Retron that can play a bunch of popular games folks may already have on their big screens? NES may look like creamed corn on a 52" LCD and play worse but with the Retro it can be a grand experience.
Also, and I may be dated, would the casual gamer go out searching for ROMs and know what to do with them? I still run into people, young and older, that use their devices like one uses a car- they use it but don't know a lick on how it works or what to do under the hood. If it runs, they are happy?.
And when they see a $50 clone that offers support for most of the software that's covered here, guess which one usually wins out for this segment?
They're casuals and few are going to do their homework to understand what the strengths are for this. They're going to see a much cheaper option that will play NES, Genesis, and SuperNES games and go for that choice instead.
The Retron 5 marketplace is primarily folks like ourselves.
Last edited by Leo_A; 07-21-2015 at 06:22 PM.
Perhaps so for some, but not others. They'll see a NES clone a SNES clone another one, the price of a gameboy advance sp and so on and it's cheaper to get an all in one box that does HDMI so it works the best on their HD TV. Those garbage $50 boxes are just RCA only and most places I've been that sell them the employees talk them down as garbage and upsell the real hardware for another ten bucks or something. The R5 marketplace is for anyone who isn't just isn't only one console, and the more they're into the more likely it's a money saver with perks.
Yoshi is also right about that last part -- smart enough to turn on the car, but don't know crap about the rest. There's plenty of people that have no clue ROMS or emulators are online, or they may see it in a passing google search after some old games and just blow it off as it's not a sales site or understand how that even works and let's it go. Stuff like the R5 or even a trashy yobo that's a 1/3 of the price is for people who want and have no clue how to get or set it up over than a couple of wires, a controller, and the game thingy that goes in the top to make them happy. Throw them in front of a browser, windows explorer, and say go for it, find an emulator for .... and then games for it, they'll be likely screwed, and even if they did find it, would they be able to even configure it let alone fire up a game? Probably not.
And how many people that have their curiosity piqued outside of the dedicated classic gaming fan, actually have an interest in taking advantage of the Retron 5's full range of compatibility? I doubt many of the few casual buyers they've lured have purchased it with an eye towards enjoying the library of more than two or three different platforms.
Again, we're talking casual buyers. Some of which will be buying simply out of impulse.
Not the type of person that's likely to investigate to see how it's connected, why one method is more desirable than the other, etc. They see a clone system that plays some favorite games of their childhood and if they're hooked, they buy it on the spot. The Retron 5's price just makes it all that much harder for someone that notices this in the store to make that leap since they won't see much past the price and what platforms that it supports.
And if they're interested and actually look around to do some basic investigation of their options, chances are that it won't go much past price when making their decision on which to purchase. The cheapest option that plays the games that they're interested in is a tall order to beat for the Retron 5 in this marketplace.
There's little doubt I think that the casual buyer represents the minority of Hyperkin's business here.
Last edited by Leo_A; 07-21-2015 at 09:30 PM.
I was never against including cartridge support. Basically if it allowed you to plug in a cartridge and back it up internally, that would be all the convenience really needed. There would be another use of the console as a cart dumper for protos if you could transfer the dumps later on, but even without that feature available it would be usable with internal storage. If you're planning on visiting an old buddy that now lives far away and you want to play your old games with him like back in the day, it would be easier to just take along a single console with everything saved rather than be forced to drag along your games too. As you've mentioned with your example of an MP3 player, it's something more convenient than listening to MP3s on a computer or laptop.
It's similar to why I kept Gameboy multicarts over a decade ago, I had the individual games included on the carts(at least the ones I enjoyed playing) but it was just easier to carry around one cart rather than a bag full of loose games, less of a chance of losing any games too. With a home system, it's easier to just play everything off one box rather than keep going to a shelf or through boxes to swap out the games. If we're not going with pure authenticity, then it would be pure convenience.
Specialty stores are just stores that specialize is certain items for a niche target market, it doesn't mean they're necessarily rare. Bicycle shops are like this, they're common but more specialized than any department store selling basic/low end bikes. Or stores dealing with high end audio equipment, plenty of people are interested in this but not the majority of people. Most casual consumers will shop at general department or big box stores, look at what's carried in Wal-Mart, Target, or Best Buy. Gamestop isn't really a specialty store, they just carry current modern consoles and games, not even PS2 stuff anymore at most locations. I don't believe the Retron 5 is available at Gamestop either.
Not the specialty store I'm thinking of;
I'm assuming that by using a car, they still know how to operate it along with most of the features like the radio or Bluetooth. Repairing or maintaining it would be different. The same way knowing how to use a computer is different from upgrading or repairing a computer.
Emulators for computers have been around for well over a decade, it's not like they're something new and unfamiliar. Plus, if someone would know how to use a Retron 5 with all of it's features, including savestates, filters, cheats, ROM patching, and essentially mandatory firmware upgrades, how could they also not figure out how to get and use emulator software on a computer?
Plus there's a bit of a difference with casual gamer and casual consumer. I'll use movies as an example. A casual general consumer would just watch whatever is playing in theaters and buy current releases on DVD, mass marketed common stuff. A casual movie enthusiast would look into more obscure films, but is happy to just download them or watch them on a streaming service. A serious movie buff would collect physical copies, search for variants and alternate versions, and care about a high image quality with correct aspect ratios and proper framing, essentially wanting everything to be as perfect as possible.
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