PSP vs DS

[EnemyZero]

Ok guys, whats all your thoughts on these 2? Who do you think will reign supreme? who do you WANT to reign supreme? Im personally goin with the DS and I believe they won't give up there handheld market to sony

[zmweasel]

Ok guys, whats all your thoughts on these 2? Who do you think will reign supreme? who do you WANT to reign supreme? Im personally goin with the DS and I believe they won't give up there handheld market to sony

E3 reaction to the DS was unsurprisingly split almost entirely down fanboi lines. Nintendo cheerleaders (of which there was an embarrassing number at Nintendo's E3 press conference, presumably planted by the company) loved it; everyone else shrugged at it.

I enjoyed my time with the DS, although I was surprised to note that the real gimmick wasn't the dual screens, but the TOUCH-screen, which most of the games and tech demos made heavy use of. I don't know that gamers are ready to accept a PDA stylus as a "controller." Also, I don't see the children who make up the GB's core audience as a stylus-friendly bunch.

The GBA slot on the DS was a cop-out by Nintendo, which had previously claimed the DS was an entirely new and separate gaming experience. It's now quite obvious that if the DS takes off, Nintendo will phase out the GBA and claim that the DS was its next-generation portable all along.

Considering the amount of tech in the DS, a $149 launch price would surprise me, although Nintendo is being extremely aggressive in its last-stand defense of the handheld market. I'm thinking $199 out of the gate, since the first couple million DSes will be snapped up by hardcore gamers who don't care about MSRP.

All this being said, I expect the PSP will grab more market share than the DS, for several reasons: Sony is (as with the PS1 and PS2) marketing to an older crowd than Nintendo, Sony has more third-party support, and the PSP architecture will allow for slightly easier (cheaper) game development. But who the hell knows? I came out of E3 much less skeptical of the DS than I was going in, so we'll see if Nintendo can pull off the upset.

-- Z.

[Kid Ice]

All this being said, I expect the PSP will grab more market share than the DS, for several reasons: Sony is (as with the PS1 and PS2) marketing to an older crowd than Nintendo, Sony has more third-party support, and the PSP architecture will allow for slightly easier (cheaper) game development. But who the hell knows? I came out of E3 much less skeptical of the DS than I was going in, so we'll see if Nintendo can pull off the upset.

-- Z.

I would be surprised if the PSP beat out the DS for a number of reasons, price being the biggest factor. I also think, in spite of Nintendo's denial, that the DS will be perceived by the public as the "new Game Boy", and therefore launch successfully as did the Advance and the SP (especially at a similar price point AND with the backwards compatibility thing going for it). You state that Sony is marketing to an older crowd, which I see as a deterrent, rather than an advantage, to marketing a new handheld.

[sisko]

I think the DS will clearly out shine the PSP.

1) Sideways compatability. We all know the benefits of that
2) Price Factor. At least $50 less at launch? Thats a considerable chunk.
3) PSP has a battery life of not even 3 hours? Please, thats just down right pitiful for a handheld nowadays.

[DEBRO]

I guess I don't understand the purpose of 2 screens. I have a hard enough time focusing on one screen

I need to see it's benefit. I saw Metriod running on it (from G4 I think) and the map is a nice feature but is it neccesary. Is the screen really needed or is it just a new gimic?

[Jibbajaba]

I'm kinda worried about Nintendo's future in the handheld market. I am not at all a Nintendo "Fanboy", as I have chosen playstation over the competition during the last 2 generations, but I have always thought that Nintendo did it best when it came to handhelds. This DS thing seems too gimicky to me. Its going to be bulky as well, and I just dont see the comfort in trying to use a D-pad, buttons, and a touch screen while on the go. As far as I am concerned, the GBA SP is handheld gaming perfection, and I would have thought that they would try to base the next gen handlheld on the SP's basic design, only with amped up graphics. After all this is what was basically done with the GBC and GBA. The SP was a radical design change from those systems, and I think that it has more life in it than 1 generation. I for one am not excited about the DS, but thats OK because I love my SP and I will ocntinue to buy games for it instead. Hell there are plenty of games out right now that I havent gotten to yet.

I have to equally say that I am not all that excited about the PSP. I am really curious to see one in action, but it certainly isnt a "pocket" system. 3 hours of battery time can kiss my ass. I cant even remember the last time I recharged my SP. I am tired of these Swiss Army knife style handhelds that are coming out, like the Ngage or that zodiac thing. Do one thing and do it well. Thats what the GBA SP does. If I want a palmtop computer, ill buy one. Fanboys will suck up both systems, but I really can't see either one hanging in there for the long haul. These bugger bulkier systems are throwbacks to the days of the Lynx and Game Gear, which although portable, did not have the convenience of the smaller GB. I'll take ueber-portability over powerful graphics and superfolous (sp?) features any day.

OK my rant is over.

[IGotTheDot]

Without knowing exactly what the PSP will be able to provide (everything shown at E3 was theoretical and not running real time) I will still vote for both.

The PSP will be really cool if Sony can provide what they are promising. The unit was very comfortable to hold and it had a style that was very appealing to me (I am a sucker for cool looking hardware). The graphics power (from what I understand) will be comparable to a Dreamcast so we should see some good-looking games. The only thing I am wondering about is will people kick down the money to buy movies for the thing? I doubt it.

The DS was very cool. The gimmick of the touch screen (almost every game shown supported it) was interesting. The games I played that used the touch screen were novelties that would get old after a few hours. I don't see it being used as a PDA (Nintendo showed a video that suggested that people would use it all day every day for all sorts of things), but I do see Nintendo making enough fun games to justify buying it.

[crashdummycow01]

i kind of want both, but i will more than likely get PSP before DS.

i dont really like the look of the DS.. also having 2 screens seems somewhat pointless and like it was only added to look like something ground breaking.

i really dont see the point in the touchscreen either.. it might be useful in a game or two to have that option over whatever you may have to do if you didnt have it, but it just seems like another thing added to the handheld to boost sales.. i can see a smudge getting on the screen and me forgetting its a touchscreen and i try to wipe it off, and then i screw up everything i've been doing in the game.

right now the only thing i like about the DS is the fact that u can play DS, GBA, GBC, and GB games on it.. and the fact that there will be a good number of cool games coming out on it.

i really like the look of the PSP, especially the widescreen. I wish it had 2 analog sticks instead of one... that kinda limits the games that can be put on the psp.. most of the PS2 games use the analog sticks now so they really wont be able to use any of those.. alot of playstation games did too..

i also like the fact that PSP will play movies... especially with the widescreen

i'm stil waiting to see what all games will be on the PSP, and as of right now PSP has my vote.

[zmweasel]

3 hours of battery time can kiss my ass.

The PSP's battery life depends on what you're using it for. Games will (should?) be the least battery-draining, since they'll hit the UMD drive least often, holding the majority of program code in RAM. Movies will be the most battery-draining, since the UMD drive will be constantly streaming data. Of course, we won't know for sure 'til the Japanese early adopters give us the 411.

I don't recall Nintendo giving a battery-life figure for the DS, although I might've just been distracted by the icky pep-rally atmosphere of the press conference, or the creepy new marketing guy.

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I would be surprised if the PSP beat out the DS for a number of reasons, price being the biggest factor.

Neither company has dished out MSRPs yet, but the general consensus is $199 for the DS and $299 for the PSP, at least for their North American launches. Nintendo might go crazy and launch in NA at $149, taking a hardware loss to build a bigger hardware base before the PSP hits.

You state that Sony is marketing to an older crowd, which I see as a deterrent, rather than an advantage, to marketing a new handheld.

Really? Marketing to teens and twenty-somethings has served Sony very well so far. Or do you not think that demographic is as significant in the handheld market as in the console market?

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

I guess I don't understand the purpose of 2 screens. I have a hard enough time focusing on one screen LOL

I need to see it's benefit. I saw Metriod running on it (from G4 I think) and the map is a nice feature but is it neccesary. Is the screen really needed or is it just a new gimic?

The air-hockey tech demo used both screens for gameplay, with the player on the bottom screen and the AI player on the top, and the stylus used to control the, uh, puck-hitting thing. That one rose above mere gimmickry.

Another demo had the player drawing lines of clouds on the bottom screen which scrolled onto the top screen and guided the path of a falling baby Mario. That was neat, too.

And I really enjoyed the 3D Pac-Man in which the touch-screen acted as a Trak-Ball of sorts, although I can anticipate many more players being frustrated than delighted with that particular control scheme.

Honestly, the dual-screen display isn't the big gimmick; it's the touch-screen. My crackpot theory is that Nintendo made the DS's D-pad and button cluster as small as they are to place that much more emphasis on touch-screen interfaces.

-- Z.

[kai123]

Ok guys, whats all your thoughts on these 2? Who do you think will reign supreme? who do you WANT to reign supreme? Im personally goin with the DS and I believe they won't give up there handheld market to sony

E3 reaction to the DS was unsurprisingly split almost entirely down fanboi lines. Nintendo cheerleaders (of which there was an embarrassing number at Nintendo's E3 press conference, presumably planted by the company) loved it; everyone else shrugged at it.

I enjoyed my time with the DS, although I was surprised to note that the real gimmick wasn't the dual screens, but the TOUCH-screen, which most of the games and tech demos made heavy use of. I don't know that gamers are ready to accept a PDA stylus as a "controller." Also, I don't see the children who make up the GB's core audience as a stylus-friendly bunch.

The GBA slot on the DS was a cop-out by Nintendo, which had previously claimed the DS was an entirely new and separate gaming experience. It's now quite obvious that if the DS takes off, Nintendo will phase out the GBA and claim that the DS was its next-generation portable all along.

Considering the amount of tech in the DS, a $149 launch price would surprise me, although Nintendo is being extremely aggressive in its last-stand defense of the handheld market. I'm thinking $199 out of the gate, since the first couple million DSes will be snapped up by hardcore gamers who don't care about MSRP.

All this being said, I expect the PSP will grab more market share than the DS, for several reasons: Sony is (as with the PS1 and PS2) marketing to an older crowd than Nintendo, Sony has more third-party support, and the PSP architecture will allow for slightly easier (cheaper) game development. But who the hell knows? I came out of E3 much less skeptical of the DS than I was going in, so we'll see if Nintendo can pull off the upset.

-- Z.

More developers huh? http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05...s_6098199.html

Why do you assume that the psp is going to load an entire game into memory? The ps2 has to stop to load all the time depending on the game. Besides wouldn't a game be just as cpu intensive as a movie would? Has sony said anything about how they will handle movie releases? I still have too many questions about the psp to crap my pants about it...yet

[link1110]

Really? Marketing to teens and twenty-somethings has served Sony very well so far. Or do you not think that demographic is as significant in the handheld market as in the console market?

I don't worry too much, but my cousin sees being seen playing aportable system as "childish," so there may be more to marketing to children than everyone thinks. If adults like the games (I'm not too sure about ANY of those next-gen portable games I saw there Card game Metal Gear, 4 player only Mario) then the adults will buy and enjoy them too. I buy almost every Game Boy Advance game that comes out and am not embarrased to be seen playing it, but many adults are.

[zmweasel]

More developers huh? http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/05...s_6098199.html

Interesting! Of course, devkits don't equal games; there are plenty of third-party companies with dust-gathering GameCube devkits.

I'm curious how Sony's 99-developer figure was derived.

Why do you assume that the psp is going to load an entire game into memory? The ps2 has to stop to load all the time depending on the game. Besides wouldn't a game be just as cpu intensive as a movie would? Has sony said anything about how they will handle movie releases? I still have too many questions about the psp to crap my pants about it...yet ;)

I'm not assuming the PSP is going to load entire games into memory at once, a la Ridge Racer. I'm assuming that developers will do whatever they can to minimize UMD loading and maximize battery life.

Your comparison to the PS2 is irrevelant, since battery life obviously isn't a concern for that console.

A movie isn't CPU-intensive at all, but it's UMD-intensive, since it's constantly streaming data from the disk. Playing MP3s on the PSP won't be as battery-draining, since it won't need the screen or the UMD, just the Memory Stick slot.

Sony has stated its plans to release music and movies on the UMD format, although without naming specific properties. On a related note, the PSP will have regional lockout similar to DVDs.

-- Z.

[Nature Boy]

I'm assuming that developers will do whatever they can to minimize UMD loading and maximize battery life.

Interesting idea. Do the developers really care about battery life though?

I will admit I know nothing about how accessing data in any of the formats (cart/UMD/whatever DS uses) affects power. But you've got me wondering if a developer is looking at battery power as they're building their game.

And, to that same line of thinking, how much do they look at minimizing load times? There are some *atrocious* load times for the consoles out there - and I don't believe they couldn't be dealt with (although I do believe the cost to do so would cut into their profits).

Thoughts?

[Jasoco]

As I've said before, the DS will dominate. For all the reasons already mentioned.

But I eagerly await both of them. Just to see which ones get bought the most.

I wonder, though. From the many pics of the DS, it appears there will be color choices. But apparently only on the screen covers. I wonder how they will really turn out, especially after how the two GBA (Non-SP) prototypes had cool color choices, but when it actually got released, all we got was White, Purple and clear Purple. Then later clear Pink. What happened to the cool Aqua blue and the Orange? That really got me. I just wish there was a real final official date.

[zmweasel]

Interesting idea. Do the developers really care about battery life though?

Very good question. Some developers might "address" the issue with a robust save-anywhere system, so they can hit the UMD whenever they want without worry. Some developers might be more careful with their code structure. It's even possible, but unlikely, that Sony will establish technical guidelines that require developers to meet certain battery-life requirements: if your game hits the UMD too often and kills the battery too quickly, it won't be approved. That would be damn difficult to test for, however.

Sony didn't seem too concerned about the battery-life issue at its E3 press conference, but you could tell the crowd wasn't thrilled by the comparisons to portable MP3 and DVD players.

And, to that same line of thinking, how much do they look at minimizing load times? There are some *atrocious* load times for the consoles out there - and I don't believe they couldn't be dealt with (although I do believe the cost to do so would cut into their profits).

Data optimzation is usually one of the last steps in the development process, unfortunately. Some developers are simply concerned with stuffing all of the game data onto a DVD, never mind load times. Some developers have been spoiled by PC hard-disc access times, and so don't bother to optimize. And a precious few developers realize the importance of keeping the flow-interrupting access to a minimum. Game Developer's "Postmortem" on Jak & Daxter talked a lot about Naughty Dog's efforts to eliminate loading pauses via clever game and level design.

-- Z.

[petewhitley]

I wasn't at E3, so I have zero hands-on time with either system. I've watched just about every video I could find on the 'net for both systems, that's as close as I've got to either. As a lifelong game fan, who has played just about every system (and owned just about every system), I'm far more excited for the PSP. Brilliant screen, seems very ergonomic, and "adult" games that are going to be *close* to the same quality I play at home on my TV (for years I've ached for handheld games that can more closely resemble the home experience). Watching the PSP videos, I was genuinely excited at the prospect of sitting on the train using this thing.
Honestly, my two cents are that the DS is going to a BIG disappointment for Nintendo, and not only because of increasing competition. Nintendo is becoming far too gimmicky for my tastes, E-readers, GameBoy Players, GC-GBA linking, Dual Screens, Virtual Boys, etc... They remind me of Sega in the Genesis, 32x, Sega CD days. Who's buying all this crap? Just sell me the system and some cool games. Touch-screens exist already (see Tapwave Zodiac), and not alot has come out of them. While the Big N is surely gonna come up with some cool apps, how are they (and more importantly, any 3rd party developer) gonna keep coming up with novel uses for a touch screen? Prove me wrong Nintendo, please, cause I'd like for you revolutionize games again. But I don't see it happening. The PSP uses 1.8 GB discs, the DS uses 128 megabyte carts. No Gran Turismo killers on the DS, that's for sure. I love Nintendo, but I want them to get with the times and start building a future. My GC gathers dust because I don't have 3 friends close by ALL with GBAs to play Zelda: Four Swords with.
Sorry, I'm just so disappointed in Nintendo these days, and I'm concerned that this board in particular is looking through some pretty rose-colored glasses in regards to their fiscal future. It reminds me of the last days of Dreamcast, where all these "hardcore" fans proclaimed it to be the "best" system. Hey, it was cool. But most everyone I knew had a helluva lot more fun with their PlayStations. We're always saying "it's about the games," but I worry that it's all to often about rooting for the underdog, irregardless of the games. <End rant>

[Kid Ice]

You state that Sony is marketing to an older crowd, which I see as a deterrent, rather than an advantage, to marketing a new handheld.

Really? Marketing to teens and twenty-somethings has served Sony very well so far. Or do you not think that demographic is as significant in the handheld market as in the console market?

-- Z.

Right. I see the handheld market as a kid-driven thing, which is one of the reasons I think Nintendo has held off (read: crushed) competitors like the Nomad and NeoPocket.

[Ed Oscuro]

one of the reasons I think Nintendo has held off (read: crushed) competitors like the Nomad and NeoPocket.

When did Nintendo crush the Nomad? The Nomad was a handheld Genesis, and was marketed as a specialized item. I can't comment if they sold as many as they wanted to, but pretty much everybody who really wants to have one will get one these days.

Back on topic...I also saw an embarrasing amount of fanboi foolery on various forums, but the majority of intelligent people seemed to really "get" the DS and were in awe of its capabilities. I'm sure the Bluetooth and WAN capabilities are nothing at all to the jet set, but add on voice recognition (wondering how good it'll be and training times?) and at that price you've almost got a product all by itself.

Graphics? I was impressed by Death Jr. until I saw it in action - this stuff doesn't seem much more advanced to me than a generic PSOne (grr, I really burns me to write that, I want to write "PSX") game. Metroid Prime: Hunters, on the other hand, looks alright, but I couldn't make out any details in the video and it looked to me like our player's Samus ran through another Samus, ala Corridor 7...I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been just a camera flying around.

While the new Metroid's use of one screen for map and menu isn't that startling or exciting, the touchscreen and other capabilities do get me excited. I think a lot of people are happy with Macromedia's Shockmachine and their Flash games - Nintendo's apparently looking to get a little bit of that market back.

I'd like to make a crack about the game journalists who weren't carried away (though I also had the suspicion some of the folks in the crowd were planted :P) being wannabe movie reviewers and that they've forgotten what games are about, but I really shouldn't. Sony's approach is just as valid as Nintendo's and I have always viewed games in the neo-traditional fashion, as things you play in front of a TV or at the arcades. However, I think Nintendo's done well to try to get a grip on this new segment. I think they've got a chance to draw female gamers back, get the attention of the aforementioned "twitch/non-epic/easy-to-pick-up and understand" group that just wants some entertainment in the dead minutes that's more diverse than the GBA lineup (that they know of, anyhow...but you really have to admit the GBA is dominated by RPGs and 2D action games, with a couple neat titles and ports here and there).