Odyssey 2 KTAA is awesome....but...

[Ruffie]

Ok, I got Soren Gust's amazing Kill the Attacking Aliens last month, the first homebrew game I've ever bought. It's an incredible achievement, but there was one little thing that bothered me about it.

No box?

If folks are going to be making brand new games for classic systems, then certainly it is reasonable to expect them to come in a box. As collectors, I'm sure we all have enough "loose" cartridges around.

So.....I went ahead and designed one in my spare time. A "homebrew" box for a "homebrew" game. I made it the same size and design as a classic Odyssey 2 game box. I think it looks pretty cool, although I've only printed out and constructed 2 prototypes so far.

I put it on my new Odyssey 2 page here. It's just a startup page for a site I'm working on, so it's by no means complete.

I just wanted to run it past my fellow collectors. What do ya think? Will Packrat or Soren Gust be offended in any way? Do I have too much time on my hands? Is there a valid point in making homebrew boxes for these homebrew games?

Thanks,

Ruffie

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

If folks are going to be making brand new games for classic systems, then certainly it is reasonable to expect them to come in a box. As collectors, I'm sure we all have enough "loose" cartridges around.

Hi Ruffle,

Cool idea on the box. As far as expecting boxes to come with new games...I don't expect it, really. They've very expensive to produce. I remember being impressed by one of the homebrew boxes at CGE last year, and asked the dealer about it, and he said that the boxes were, by far, more expensive than the cartridges, labels and manuals put together - if anything, the box upped the price.

Maybe this is just me being cheap, but I'd rather pay just a certain amount for the game instead of just a certain amount + printing and material and production costs for a boxed game. And especially when you're dealing with an Odyssey2 game, or an early gatefold-style Intellivision game, where there was more box to deal with than the cardboard shells that most Atari and Colecovision games came in.

Boxes are really cool...but on the balance of it, I can see why they're not more common on the homebrew scene. I'd thought of designing and printing out some large stickers and transforming a decent old Speedway-Spinout-Cryptologic box into a KTAA box at some point. The real advantage KTAA has right now is that it doesn't need a box at the moment - it hasn't left my O2's cartridge slot since I got it.

[o2william]

Hey, that's pretty cool! For MS Paint graphics, those are quite good.

I kind of doubt that Packrat Games or Soren would care, although I can't speak for them of course. It might be good to put the XYPE logo on there somewhere.

I'm speculating, but I'd guess that no box was produced because making cardboard boxes is expensive; I seem to remember reading that it is by far the most expensive part of producing a homebrew game. I can't imagine how expensive it would be to produce an Odyssey2-style box, with its thick cardboard and fancy folds. But to stay true to Soren's label design for the game, KTAA really shouldn't have a cardboard box anyway. It should have a G7400-style box, like this. This would have been even more of a pain to produce though; Packrat would have had to buy a bunch of junk Videopac games and cannibalize their plastic boxes, then make a cardboard insert for the back, and rework the manual considerably.

Aside: wow, you have an Odyssey2 Adventure Club certificate? Congrats! Wish I could get my hands on one.

[Edit: once again Phosphor Dot Fossils posts a similar reply while I'm composing mine, making me appear sadly unoriginal. Curse you, PDF, and your fleet fingers! (Just kidding! )]

[Ruffie]

Thanks for the replies. I never thought that making a box would add that much to the cost of a game, but I can see how that would be the case with the design of the classic O2 box. Hey, I'm just glad that people are making the actual games, because if they are all as good as KTAA, then my O2 will never sit in a dark attic again.

I had originally considered the sticker-coversion idea, but never pursued it. I really envisioned a sturdy, printable version of the box and have pretty much achieved that.

I'll be sure to add the XYPE logo in there too. By the way, what is the story behind that? It's clearly the old EPYX logo in reverse, but why? They never made O2 games. Is it Soren Gust's idea as a tribute to EPYX (well deserved I admit)?

And finally, good news for you William. A co-worker sold me his old O2 and games a few weeks ago (it was a treasure trove, and I think I posted about it at the time). Inside, however, was an O2 Adventure Club certificate, unsigned, in really good shape. Since my original one is signed and framed and hanging on my wall, I don't really need the extra one and would be happy to send it to you free of charge. Just let me know where to send it via private message or whatever..

Ruffie

[o2william]

You better believe a PM is coming your way! Thanks!

About XYPE...

Xype is an informal organization with the purpose of recognizing and promoting exceptional modern video games for retro console systems (often called "homebrews").

That's from XYPE's web site. They've made some awesome homebrews, mostly for the Atari 2600. One of their best designers, Thomas Jentzch (Thrust), posts here from time to time.

I never made the Epyx connection before. I guess that explains their odd name!

(Edited to correct spelling mistake.

[Scoots]

I work in the packaging industry making exactly the kinds of boxes we're talking about here. About the only way you could expect homebrewers to get offset printed boxes for a reasonable amount would be if several of them got together and did a "gang run," ie 6 or 8 different homebrewers would each have one copy of their box printed on a common sheet (like we print up to 36 x 49" sheets here). This would decrease a lot of the costs (cutting die for instance would be around $1000, so divide it amongst however many guys got their box on that run; same goes for the cost of producing the films to print from, and makeready times on the cutting and gluing equipment). Since we're talking small runs this kind of planning would be a great factor in reducing price for the individual creators involved.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

No box?

Manuel Rotschkar (XYPE founder) already suggested PVG to pack the game into European G7000 boxes. Those are made of plastic and quite durable. But I don't know if that has been decided yet.

[mikecronis]

I'd gladly pay $10 or $15 for that box for my KTAA, but only if it had the "Challenger Series" blue and silver on it, because it was a 4k cart.

Ted made a Planet Lander cart that was a 2k game and is in dire need of a box. I'd buy one off ya!

Now if we can only get that prototype Spiderman game ROM for the O2 and burn a cart!

[Ruffie]

Yeah, I just got Planet Lander last week and thought about making a box for it. Fortuantely, the cover art is already done thanks to the inclusion of an absolutely perfect instruction manual.

I'm getting ready to make prototype #3 for KTAA. A few issues:

1. I have yet to find the exact quality of printer paper and construction techniques to make a good looking, sturdy box. I have a pretty low-end printer. Printing white on black, such as the white letters on the back of the box, has proven a bit difficult. The black runs into the white a little, making them seem gray or dirty.

2. I have been reminded here that, technically, the game is a G7000 game if one goes by the front label. So should I also create and print out a new label sticker to convert it into an Odyssey 2 game? I am not a G7000 collector and I want KTAA to look good on the shelf with my other O2 games.

3. And yes, the Challenger Series issue. I had originally thought of making the same blue bar as those challenger games, across the bottom since KTAA isn't voice-enhanced. Instead of "Challenger Series", though, I was going to put "Homebrew Series". Instead of the little silver circle with two arrows, I was going to put a small house. Maybe, though, I'll just add the standard Challenger Series to KTAA and make Planet Lander a standard design box.

4. I am still trying to figure out where and when to give credit for KTAA. Soren Gust, Xype, and Packrat Video Games should all be mentioned, but where and how is still a little fuzzy for me.

5. The manual included with KTAA is great, but not the standard size of an Odyssey 2 manual. I need to convert it.

6. Time. I have very little time to work on all of this. If there is some interest, though, I'll find more time.

So, let me know what you all think. By the way, is Amok still available for the Odyssey 2? I remember reading about it a few years back but never picked it up. Can anyone post a link please?

Thanks,
Ruffie

[PackratVG]

Nice work on the box Ruffie. I'm always happy to see fellow gamers go out of their way for homebrews. This is actually a good opportunity to pose a question for everyone. We're currently working on a system in which we could make one-offs of boxes at a decent price. Instead of offset printing, though, the boxes would be printed with a wide-format inkjet printer. It's a process that CPUWIZ of AA has helped us with. My question is, are people really willing to pay an extra $15 just for a box? The biggest cost with our setup is the labor involved on each box. Everything is hand-cut and each box takes between 30 and 45 minutes to construct. This doesn't include the printing time, nor all of the time invested in the design of the box.

We would like to work backwards a little on our homebrews and make boxes for Skeleton+, Okie Dokie, and several others. We would then sell the loose game, the box only (for collectors that already have a loose copy), and a complete boxed game. Thoughts? I would really like to see this happen, but I'm a bit hesitant to ask $15 for just a box.

Thanks,
Jarett

P.S. We're also considering putting up templates for everyone to use so that we could do custom one-offs for people.

[Ruffie]

I can't speak for anyone else, but yeah, I'd pay the extra for the box.

There's a long-term consideration here, too. Keeping these collections intact and well-maintained is a part of what we are all doing. I think it would be best if this amazing homebrew phenomenon were also preserved as well as possible, which means in boxes.

Heck, I bet there would be a market out there for box reproductions of classic games, too. Imagine being able to purchase new boxes for all of one's loose cartridges? The mind (and wallet) boggles.

Ruffie