Excuse if an old topic..but a Sealed Chrono Trigger...WTF???

[rhiohki]

I remember like a year or two these games going for like 200-300 sealed, which still seemed a little much.....these ebay prices are utterly unbeleivable.....what's going on??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...125309984&rd=1

The thing about it is...the guy who won the auction in the above link out-bid me on a factory sealed Super Bonk....He won and then e-mails me asking me if I wanted to buy it back from him because he was spending too much money.....

ANOTHER ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...126890777&rd=1

[davidleeroth]

I don't know WTF is going anymore.

Why are people still selling drugs? These SNES games are worth more per kilo than g'ol' smack. I'm calling to Hong Kong to get my first shipment of sealed Chrono Triggers ready. Damn.

Yeah, and that adol guy has lost it.

[Ninja Blacksox]

Wow.

There are some truly dumb motherfuckers out there.

Here's hoping this post doesn't incur the wrath of one "Player-2."

-A Boy

[captain nintendo]

Here's hoping this post doesn't incur the wrath of one "Player-2."

Why would your post do that ?

Seriously. I believe that is the highest amount I have ever seen a sealed Chrono go for. I mean I think Player-2 would agree that it ssems insane

Thats why its posted in ebay insanity :P

[Bronty-2]

That's messed up. $250 is all they used to go for.

What's even more troubling to me than the price is that the pictures suck. These snes rpg games are up there with zelda in terms of reseal targets. I personally got stuck with a sealed chrono that had the vertical seam and looked ok in the pics and was an obvious reseal in person I hope he received better pics via email because adol's obviously been burned before - the FF3 he's selling is a brutal reseal. He probably bought it that way and is trying to get his money back.

[esquire]

I've never understood the rational behind collecting sealed games, other than to ensure that they are complete; however, if you are not going to open them, what is the point? These auctions only confirm my belief that collecting has gone out of control. Seriously, $650 for a game that you could probably get for at least 10 times less that amount (and complete too!). So essentially the bidder paid $600 for some shrinkwrap.

[anagrama]

Not THE Adol? I guess we can expect to see him selling it under under his 'worldgames' ID with a $1000 BIN shortly then...

[Griking]

I've never understood the rational behind collecting sealed games, other than to ensure that they are complete; however, if you are not going to open them, what is the point? These auctions only confirm my belief that collecting has gone out of control. Seriously, $650 for a game that you could probably get for at least 10 times less that amount (and complete too!). So essentially the bidder paid $600 for some shrinkwrap.

I believe that a lot of people who collect sealed games do so because they look at them as investments. Selling prices of some games (especially RPGs) have continued to go up and up and up in the past few years. What some of you may have thought was a rediculous price for a game last year may be considered a bargain today. All investments are a risk and I believe that some people feel that based on history, over paying for certain games today is a risk worth taking.

[-hellvin-]

Yeah it's pretty rediculous...I remember a while ago when someone was selling a sealed CT and Megaman X3 with a 300 dollar STARTING bid and they were bid on pretty fast. God I wish I could find one of these games sealed. It would be sold so damn fast.

[Bronty-2]

I've never understood the rational behind collecting sealed games, other than to ensure that they are complete; however, if you are not going to open them, what is the point? These auctions only confirm my belief that collecting has gone out of control. Seriously, $650 for a game that you could probably get for at least 10 times less that amount (and complete too!). So essentially the bidder paid $600 for some shrinkwrap.

If you're really condition conscious though the only way to get a truly mint game is to get a sealed one. There will be subtle defects on virtually any complete copy.. minor scuffing etc on the box, a light crease line from where the game is opened along the flap, etc. And there's a challenge factor to it as well - loose copies and completes are pretty easy to get.

[rhiohki]

I've never understood the rational behind collecting sealed games, other than to ensure that they are complete; however, if you are not going to open them, what is the point? These auctions only confirm my belief that collecting has gone out of control. Seriously, $650 for a game that you could probably get for at least 10 times less that amount (and complete too!). So essentially the bidder paid $600 for some shrinkwrap.

If you're really condition conscious though the only way to get a truly mint game is to get a sealed one. There will be subtle defects on virtually any complete copy.. minor scuffing etc on the box, a light crease line from where the game is opened along the flap, etc. And there's a challenge factor to it as well - loose copies and completes are pretty easy to get.

sealed...truly mint?...well that is true and not true depending on what type of game you are getting.

From my experience, buying sealed SNES games can be tricky. Sometimes, a quick photo of a SNES game doesn't necessarily guarantee "mint" condition. On the contrary, sometimes sealed SNES games can have dramatic dents and box folds. And if you are truly a collector, then rips, tears, and holes in the shrinkwrap are also of a concern and such defects are also hard to detect unless specifically asked about. This is all assuming the seller is honest and would be able to provide detailed high-resolution pictures.

One other thing people seem to forget, or not even know about, is ink-stick on the cart-holder box. When the game is packed so tightly and not opened, the ink from the manual, especially black manuals can peel off to the cart-holder, which is basically a piece of card-board painted white. This can lead to ink transfer from the manual to the cardboard cart-holder and vice-versa.

Think of it as having your regular stock white binder with the pockets on the inside flap and filling the pocket tight with paper printed with basic black ink. I guarantee that after a year of just sitting there, the ink will transfer onto the binder if trying to remove the paper.

Same thing will happen with SNES games. I have seen it after opening a couple of factory sealed SNES games.

In any event, I have gotten a lot of better condition OPENED SNES games than factory sealed ones.

Factory sealed or not, a Chrono Trigger is no investment to be making. First, the winng bid is around 6 times as much as an opened & complete one in terms of ebay prices. As we know and have seen, ebay prices are volatile and last minute bid wars don't dictate the collector market value. I am amazed to see most of this ridiculous amount of money being paid by OVERSEAS collectors. It makes sense to pay this amount perhaps if you live in France or the U.K and have an itch for the U.S versions of these games in terms of collectability, but if one lives here in the U.S, with a little searching and effort, one can find this game for a lot less.

Even with ebay, if one takes the time to do multiple searches and check on days where items end at wierd times for the domestic united states, you can get some pretty good deals.

I think I have rambled enough...just some things to think about.....

[Gapporin]

I find it funny because I remember searching eBay eons ago and seeing sealed copies go for $60-80, and saying to myself, "That's kinda high, don't you think?"

[FantasiaWHT]

Hmmmmmmm...

I wonder if I could just seal up a CT box with enough junk inside to make it seem like the same weight as a real game and sell it?

If the person will pay hundreds for something sealed, they aren't going to open it and ruin it lol

You gotta believe it's been done before...

[Bronty-2]

sealed...truly mint?...well that is true and not true depending on what type of game you are getting.

From my experience, buying sealed SNES games can be tricky. Sometimes, a quick photo of a SNES game doesn't necessarily guarantee "mint" condition. On the contrary, sometimes sealed SNES games can have dramatic dents and box folds. And if you are truly a collector, then rips, tears, and holes in the shrinkwrap are also of a concern and such defects are also hard to detect unless specifically asked about. This is all assuming the seller is honest and would be able to provide detailed high-resolution pictures.

One other thing people seem to forget, or not even know about, is ink-stick on the cart-holder box. When the game is packed so tightly and not opened, the ink from the manual, especially black manuals can peel off to the cart-holder, which is basically a piece of card-board painted white. This can lead to ink transfer from the manual to the cardboard cart-holder and vice-versa.
..

rhioki,

Interesting comments! You're right about snes boxes, even when sealed, sometimes having box folds or dents, it's really annoying!! Which is why I think that the condition doesn't just end at sealed... I think we agree on this point.

But I'm very interested about this ink-transfer business. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, because black ink (the kind you're saying transfers the most easily) is apparently created by recycling all other colors of inks, so impurities get in the ink, even after filtering. Which means that the ink doesn't 'stick' to the paper that well, which is why black boxes will get color flakes more easily, and why black covered instruction books will smudge with fingerprints more than other colors. So what you're saying makes a ton of sense! I've only opened four or five sealed snes and never had a problem. I assume in your experience that the games packed the most tightly, like rpgs with a lot of maps, are the most susceptible to this?

[rhiohki]

sealed...truly mint?...well that is true and not true depending on what type of game you are getting.

From my experience, buying sealed SNES games can be tricky. Sometimes, a quick photo of a SNES game doesn't necessarily guarantee "mint" condition. On the contrary, sometimes sealed SNES games can have dramatic dents and box folds. And if you are truly a collector, then rips, tears, and holes in the shrinkwrap are also of a concern and such defects are also hard to detect unless specifically asked about. This is all assuming the seller is honest and would be able to provide detailed high-resolution pictures.

One other thing people seem to forget, or not even know about, is ink-stick on the cart-holder box. When the game is packed so tightly and not opened, the ink from the manual, especially black manuals can peel off to the cart-holder, which is basically a piece of card-board painted white. This can lead to ink transfer from the manual to the cardboard cart-holder and vice-versa.
..

rhioki,

Interesting comments! You're right about snes boxes, even when sealed, sometimes having box folds or dents, it's really annoying!! Which is why I think that the condition doesn't just end at sealed... I think we agree on this point.

But I'm very interested about this ink-transfer business. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, because black ink (the kind you're saying transfers the most easily) is apparently created by recycling all other colors of inks, so impurities get in the ink, even after filtering. Which means that the ink doesn't 'stick' to the paper that well, which is why black boxes will get color flakes more easily, and why black covered instruction books will smudge with fingerprints more than other colors. So what you're saying makes a ton of sense! I've only opened four or five sealed snes and never had a problem. I assume in your experience that the games packed the most tightly, like rpgs with a lot of maps, are the most susceptible to this?

exactly, the SNES boxes that I did open were in fact RPGs. These were games that had been factory sealed and stored away for years as well.

As was stated earlier in this thread, I know there has also been a great deal of fraud with sellers posing their games off as factory sealed, when in fact, it has been re-sealed. Sounds quite tempting to re-seal an empty SNES box with junk an sell it, especially to someone living in Germany who is never going to open it, but I live my life resisting temptation so........

[Iron Draggon]

What I don't understand is why it only seems to be happening with SNES games. Why not all the other consoles too? And why only RPG's? Why not any other genres? I know that it's happening to a lesser degree with some other consoles, and other genres like old school shooters, but why so much insanity over sealed SNES RPG's? They're the most common games on ebay. There's something seriously messed up about a market where the rarest of sealed games sell for original prices while the most common of sealed games sell for 10 times the original prices. And it's messing up all the other markets too. You can say that ebay prices don't reflect the true market value, but the sad fact is they do. As soon as all the other markets get wind of what things are going for on ebay, their prices go up too. So it's just delusional to say that ebay insanity has no effect on the sanity of the rest of the hobby. We can quote DP values for the rest of our lives, but that isn't gonna get everyone else to lower their bids and lower their prices for what we want. That's why auctions like this one are so scary. It'll just keep getting worse.

[esquire]

I've never understood the rational behind collecting sealed games, other than to ensure that they are complete; however, if you are not going to open them, what is the point? These auctions only confirm my belief that collecting has gone out of control. Seriously, $650 for a game that you could probably get for at least 10 times less that amount (and complete too!). So essentially the bidder paid $600 for some shrinkwrap.

If you're really condition conscious though the only way to get a truly mint game is to get a sealed one. There will be subtle defects on virtually any complete copy.. minor scuffing etc on the box, a light crease line from where the game is opened along the flap, etc. And there's a challenge factor to it as well - loose copies and completes are pretty easy to get.

The problem is that if you never open the box, how do you know the condition of the item inside? There are many scammers out there today because people are paying ridiculous prices for these things. People are reshrinkwrapping games, and for those people who are collecting these as "investments", they may never know unless they open them. But at the same time, if you open the game it loses its alleged value. Hence a Catch-22

I think the majority of the people who are buying the sealed games are doing it for a perceived investment as stated by Griking above. Why else would you pay $650 for a SNES cart. Like I said above, for those collectors who will actually play the game (as opposed to keeping a sealed copy) and who are concerned about the condition of the cart, they can save themselves over $500 by buying a complete near mint opened copy.

The problem with the whole investment idea is that eventually these things will hit a price ceiling at some point where the market will say "enough" These prices on ebay are not based on rarity of the game, but rather on demand. The reason is simple, there is simply no way to determine the number of sealed games out there, as opposed to determining the rarity of a game by numbers produced. And as I stated above, as these prices continue to go up, I think you'll see more and more of suspect "sealed" games available for sale.

I think the reason why the SNES RPGS go for so much is the fact that they include instructions, maps, hint books, etc., which over time get lost or thrown away with open versions. Just take a look on ebay and you can always find people selling loose instructions, maps etc for games like Chrono Trigger.

I don't recall if Genesis games were sealed. i don't think so. There weren't many other consoles with the amount of RPGS that the SNES and Genny had. Maybe the NES. Surely not the N64 or even the SMS.

Another reason is that Genny and SMS carts were easier to keep complete due to the hardshell case you could store the game and instructions in. Even the NES games had those black sleeves you could keep the instructions in with the cart. The SNES didn't have anything comparable. A lot of people threw out their SNES games boxes.

[Bronty-2]

Genny games came sealed. I've seen some, and have a sealed herzog zwei, although I don't generally collect genesis.

"The problem is that if you never open the box, how do you know the condition of the item inside? There are many scammers out there today because people are paying ridiculous prices for these things. People are reshrinkwrapping games, and for those people who are collecting these as "investments", they may never know unless they open them. But at the same time, if you open the game it loses its alleged value. Hence a Catch-22 "

-----it's tough at first, but once you've seen enough legit games and enough reseals you can tell the difference. I definitely feel confident about it.

"I think the majority of the people who are buying the sealed games are doing it for a perceived investment as stated by Griking above. Why else would you pay $650 for a SNES cart. Like I said above, for those collectors who will actually play the game (as opposed to keeping a sealed copy) and who are concerned about the condition of the cart, they can save themselves over $500 by buying a complete near mint opened copy. "

-----I'm sure the investment thing is part of it for some people. Personally I enjoy having a sealed copy for display/aesthetic value and a loose copy to play.

As far as the scammers go, well, video games are hardly the first collectible where this issue has cropped up. Sportscards have been trimmed for profit, coins have been secretly cleaned, comic books have been color touched and trimmed, artwork has been forged, loose action figures have been glued onto loose card backs to make them appeared to be a sealed whole, antique teddy bears have been faked, antique furniture has been artificially aged and knock offs produced etc etc etc ad nauseam. Name a hobby and there's a related scam as soon as the money gets to a certain level. Not much you can do about it except educate yourself.

I suppose it's possible that if the market continues to grow there might be a grading/authentication type service sprout up in five or ten years like there is in coins, comic books, sport cards, and action figures, which will help out the fakes should it ever occur.

[scorch56]

You can say that ebay prices don't reflect the true market value, but the sad fact is they do. So it's just delusional to say that ebay insanity has no effect on the sanity of the rest of the hobby. We can quote DP values for the rest of our lives, but that isn't gonna get everyone else to lower their bids and lower their prices for what we want. It'll just keep getting worse.

You know? I was just thinking this very same exact thing myself yesterday; and you put the whole thing so eloquently.

[grimbal]

You can say that ebay prices don't reflect the true market value, but the sad fact is they do. As soon as all the other markets get wind of what things are going for on ebay, their prices go up too. So it's just delusional to say that ebay insanity has no effect on the sanity of the rest of the hobby.

There are used game stores in my area that base their prices off of Ebay. They will look each game up one at a time and average out what the bidding prices are and base their store price off that average.