The tired old question comes back....recession or what?

[Daria]

Don't forget Sony got backwards compatibility for the PS2 right, which didn't alienate all those who bought and still play/buy PSX games, like Nintendo's done with their GB lines.

Actually, that's true. They did at least do one thing right with the PS2. But as much as people talk about the backwards compatibility, I think that is more of a subconscious thing than anything. The percentage of people that actually play PS1 games on their PS2, is probably below 3 percent.

But for some reason, people like knowing that they can, even if they never use it.

I think backwards compatibility smooths over the transition period between consoles. Imagine your a parent who buys a family PSone, steadily every birthday and christmas your children aquire new games. Then PSTwo rolls along and you trade in the PSOne to buy it (although more likely the PSone gets moved to a child's bedroom because mom doesn't want all those game systems cluttering up her living room and the majority of people are probably buying their new systems at Walmart or Bestbuy as opposed to Gamestop) because it's the hot new thing and your kids have it written on their christmas lists right under "pony", only as everyone knows launch systems always have a skimpy library, but because the systems backwards compaitible you can continue to use Psone games as "filler presents" utill the Ps2 games start churning out. After that their kids will most likely never touch another PSOne game again, but for that first Christmas/Birthday backwards compaitibility is a godsend.

I like it because I can have less systems hooked up at once. But that's just me. I also know when the GBA first came out I bought one, and never having owned a gameboy before went on a GBC spree because not enough GBA games I wanted were out. Of course now I buy mostly GBA games. So the above analogy applies to at least one gamer as well as families. :P

[Anthony1]

But for some reason, people like knowing that they can, even if they never use it.

So imagine player's feelings if the X-Box2 comes out without that compatibiblity.

Personally, I think that backward compatibility is a bad idea. For home consoles anyways. For portables like the GBA and DS, it's a really good idea, but for home consoles, I don't like it.

It adds more cost to the console, and sometimes affects the way the console is designed. Sometimes to get backwards compatibility to you have to give up other technology which would have made a better console. Plus, even though people say they really want backwards compatibility, it's more of a mental thing, people don't really use it. The vast majority of people don't use it, and it just adds unnecessary cost and headache in the design of the system.

I don't mind the controllers and A/V cables being backward compatible. That is actually a very good idea. It saves me money!

But if I'm going to play a PSX game, then I'm going to play it on a real PSX. Not the PS2. I only play PS2 games on the PS2.

[Captain Wrong]

if you had enough time to quote it, and put "tdlr" then you had enought time to read it.

I'm guessing that you grudgingly agree with all my points, and you don't have an argument.

No actually I didn't and if I did I probably wouldn't. I just don't understand why every goddamn topic around here has to turn into yet more pointless system bashing. I don't care to read another thesis length post on why company X sucks/doesn't suck or how company Y has everyone "brainwashed" or what the fuck ever. I thought this was a "will the industry crash?" thread, not a "let's hash out the console wars again" thread.

Oh and Keir, yeah, tldr = too long, didn't read.

[Nature Boy]

Anthony, Anthony, Anthony...

Anybody who uses the words "brainwashed" (previous post) is clearly an anti-fan boy of *some sort,* but I'm gonna comment anyway.

Why doesn't Sony get any credit for putting themself into the positions you've described? Did they just stumble into a position where they had good relationships with publishers and dealers? Were their marketing programs a fluke invented by an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters? No, they were business decisions made by a company who had a good idea of how to succeed. The "coolness" factor you alluded to - that's marketing man. That's their *job.* It didn't just "happen" - they *made* it happen.

[Anthony1]

Anthony, Anthony, Anthony...

Anybody who uses the words "brainwashed" (previous post) is clearly an anti-fan boy of *some sort,* but I'm gonna comment anyway.

Why doesn't Sony get any credit for putting themself into the positions you've described? Did they just stumble into a position where they had good relationships with publishers and dealers? Were their marketing programs a fluke invented by an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters? No, they were business decisions made by a company who had a good idea of how to succeed. The "coolness" factor you alluded to - that's marketing man. That's their *job.* It didn't just "happen" - they *made* it happen.

Here's the thing..... When Sony made the Playstation, they did alot of things right. They did alot of things, very, very right. The playstation was a brilliantly designed console from a technical standpoint, as well as marketing it and everything else. Basically Sony could do no wrong when it came to the original Playstation.

Thats what put them into that position. Everything had to do with the original playstation and all of the success with the original playstation, and I will be the first to congratulate them up and down the street for everything they did with the first playstation.

But what happened, is that all that success with that system, and all that acclaim, etc, etc, went to their heads. They thought they could do no wrong, and that they had this industry by the balls. Which actually is true, no matter how much they did wrong with the PS2, it didn't matter, they did have the industry by the balls.

But make no mistake about it, it was all about the success and dominance that they had with the original PSX. And I give them all the credit in the world for that.


But was the PS2 a comedy of errors? Yes. Did it succed in spite of that? Yes.

[Nature Boy]

Here's the thing..... When Sony made the Playstation, they did alot of things right. They did alot of things, very, very right.

Damn right they did.

But was the PS2 a comedy of errors? Yes. Did it succed in spite of that? Yes.

If the PS2 was a comedy of errors everything they had done for PS1 would be kaput and publishers/developers would be fleeing their sinking ship and heading straight to Xbox. That's hardly the case, and it's not "despite" of anything. They've continued to market themselves well. They've continued to not piss developers off (like Nintendo did). And they continue to sell oogles of product. And they will continue to do so unless and until Microsoft or Nintendo (or someone else) beats them at their own game.

[Anthony1]

Here's the thing..... When Sony made the Playstation, they did alot of things right. They did alot of things, very, very right.

Damn right they did.

But was the PS2 a comedy of errors? Yes. Did it succed in spite of that? Yes.

If the PS2 was a comedy of errors everything they had done for PS1 would be kaput and publishers/developers would be fleeing their sinking ship and heading straight to Xbox. That's hardly the case, and it's not "despite" of anything. They've continued to market themselves well. They've continued to not piss developers off (like Nintendo did). And they continue to sell oogles of product. And they will continue to do so unless and until Microsoft or Nintendo (or someone else) beats them at their own game.

Just because Sony made alot of major mistakes with the PS2, it doesn't mean that the console would fail in the marketplace, and that is why nobody started "fleeing thei sinking ship and heading straight to Xbox". I don't think there is any question that Sony made some significant mistakes with the PS2, but none of it was enough to overcome the fact that they had every developer in the world onboard, and they had consumers mindshare and loyalty.

But the reason that I said it a was a comedy of errors was for these reasons:


1. Extreme shortage of systems at launch, and for the first 6 months of the PS2's existence in the United States.

2. A horrible lack of quality games at launch.

3. Not enough video ram for the PS2 to be able to do progressive scan 480p games without major sacrifices and programming tricks. 95 percent of all Dreamcast gamers were 480p, yet here is a "supposedly" more powerfull system that couldn't do 480p till just recently, and even now so many huge games don't have 480p compatibility.

4. No "in game" Dolby Digital 5.1 support. Although the XBOX is capable of Dolby Digital 5.1 on the fly, during actual game play, the PS2 isn't capable of that. With Sony's background in Home Electronics, it should have been that hard for them to have added this feature.

5. Reliability issues. How many PS2's have had to be repaired? Sony has the worst track record of any company that I can think of, when it comes to "build quality" of their video game hardware.

6. Hard Drive fiasco - They talk about a hard drive, about how it's going to revolutionize things, delay it forever, then finally bring it out, and it only works with basically one game, then they abandon it.


These are just some of the things that come to mind, but I'm sure there were other mistakes that they made with the PS2, but again, I have to give them credit for despite all these problems thuroughly dominating this go round. Marketing was a huge, huge part of it. And they deserve much props for that. Backward compatibility was great for them, from a subconscious standpoint for consumers that think they are going to use that but never do. And all the money they spent on the exclusive windows for the GTA games and Madden only being online for a long time on PS2, had a huge part in it as well.