Radical Dreamers -Mandarake-

[Kiddo]

I don't really know the collector mindset, but I assume they just treat a 8M Pack with Radical Dreamers as though it were a cartridge (In other words, they may judge it based on physical condition and whatnot, although that might be difficult since a "Sealed" 8M Memory Pack is most certainly empty, while one with Radical Dreamers is certainly not sealed.).
Thus, having a "Real" Radical Dreamers 8M Pack is, in their minds, very much like having a "Real" Sealed Chrono Trigger.

Again, though, this is what makes the scenario of the packs being writable again potentially hazardous. It would wreck the value of the Radical Dreamers data, while at the same time have carts be overwritten (Possibly carts which may have unidentified rare data themselves) with "copy" data.

[Kamigami]

if you ask to me that cart have that value and can have that value since there's a 99% of possibility that the data on it were in from 90'.
Collector side is the original form of that data.

is not like in 2034 you can put your hands on a backup for wii or similar..
but i guess and sure it is.. tha value only take strenght by the fact they can't get reproducted or cloned yet.
So at moment is like you're buying an official release of the game.. sort of. Yes.
is digital delivery but it's not at same time. (for me)
especially when you often have correspondence between mempack and single game.
In a way is having something like Famicom Tantei Club flashed at home direct on you system. They ARE physical (mempack and Sf mem Carts) even the content don't come from a factory

this from a collector point of view go to hell when someone sneak up on a way to reflash a mempack.
loosing unidentified contents would be another shame of this operation

[Kamigami]

There is a LOT of Undumped Satellaview game data that is unaccounted for. We do not even have all the games that could be "downloaded" like Radical Dreamers

is there a complete list of Satella games?
any info about sutte hakkuns game and the selfdestruction thing?

[Kiddo]

I do not think there is any complete list of all the Satellaview content - there are, however, complete lists of certain bits and chunks, and some signs of what's "missing". I tend to highlight these in Satellablog.

For example. This Japanese site has a list of every "Soundlink" Broadcast and it's premiere air date as well as an (incomplete) archive of schedules of Satellaview programming.

Anyway, since you asked about the Sutte Hakkun line, here's what I know about them off the top of my head, the original "Sutte Hakkun BS Event Version" (If I got the title right) was the first of any Sutte Hakkun release. It's a download game which seemed to have degree of a "competition" element to it (You high scores were saved and were able to generate a St.GIGA password - usually the signs of a contest that was held.). This was followed up by the "Event Version 2" and "98 Winter Event Version". Released in the midst of these editions was the "Retail" version, first as a Nintendo Power service release, and then as a standard ROM cartridge These are all archived as ROM dumps, btw, so you don't need to worry about undumped ROM Data there. I have not found any evidence that anything here is "missing".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutte_Hakkun - The Wikipedia article on Sutte Hakkun seems to have most of the relevant info regarding it now.

As for the "selfdestruction" as you've put it (since I don't really know the proper-term, I refer to it as an "Auto-lock", which is the most accurate description of what it does.)... that function kind of works different ways depending on what the software is.

To start with, not every game is designed to auto-lock - although ones that don't auto-lock tend to be the exception rather than the rule. I've heard that the Squaresoft game line (which include Radical Dreamers, Treasure Conflix, Dynamitracer, Koi Ha Balance and the Chrono Trigger Omake series) and the Kirby no Omachahako line are examples of content that does not auto-lock. Also, content which is not gaming, such as Sateillaview-format magazines, don't auto-lock.

On the other hand, Soundlink titles are ALWAYS auto-locked, because a player is not even supposed to know Soundlink data is in an 8M Memory Pack to begin with. This is why a Soundlink game will never boot directly from the BS-X, and why many of these can go undetected and not ROM dumped.

Now, the rest of the content... downloadable games tend to have a limited number of boot-ups before they're set to "Lock". The exact number, I do not know whether it's dependent on the game or not... but the "lock" is done by a single byte in the ROM's header, which also detects the number of times a game has booted up. (I do not know if any other factors can increase this value)
When the game is set to "lock", the BS-X itself will no longer detect it. The only way to salvage data out of a Memory Pack like this is to dump it's ROM contents and try booting it up in an emulator (Note, though, that BSNES will emulate the lock itself, meaning you won't be able to use that unless you can hack the lock out of the ROM - actually a fairly easy thing to do, but not something I'd recommend.)
As an example, I know that the Satellaview download version of "Zelda no Densetsu: Kamigami no Triforce" has a limited number of boot-ups before it "locks". When the game locks, it'll almost look like a "here today, gone tomorrow" situation - like the game just vanished. If you dump the Memory Pack's ROM, though, you should be able to play it on an emulator that can emulate the Satellaview's SRAM functions properly. Unfortunately, there is no way to reverse a "lock" in the 8M Pack itself, and trying to develop a method is potentially just a step away from full-on ROM copying.

[Kamigami]

Anyway, since you asked about the Sutte Hakkun ............ These are all archived as ROM dumps, btw, so you don't need to worry about undumped ROM Data there. I have not found any evidence that anything here is "missing".

Actually i asked for it since i own BS Sutte Hakkun 2 (remake of the event version without ranking system)
i was wondering if the Auto-lock affect it too.
Already played it, so the retail version..
i don't think to return on em soon.. and i could use the emu of course..
just to know.. in case, i avoid to replay it on the original hardware..

As for the "selfdestruction" as you've put it (since I don't really know the proper-term, I refer to it as an "Auto-lock", which is the most accurate description of what it does.)... that function kind of works different ways depending on what the software is.

To start with, not every game is designed to auto-lock - although ones that don't auto-lock tend to be the exception rather than the rule. I've heard that the Squaresoft game line (which include Radical Dreamers, Treasure Conflix, Dynamitracer, Koi Ha Balance and the Chrono Trigger Omake series) and the Kirby no Omachahako line are examples of content that does not auto-lock. Also, content which is not gaming, such as Sateillaview-format magazines, don't auto-lock.

On the other hand, Soundlink titles are ALWAYS auto-locked, because a player is not even supposed to know Soundlink data is in an 8M Memory Pack to begin with. This is why a Soundlink game will never boot directly from the BS-X, and why many of these can go undetected and not ROM dumped.

Now, the rest of the content... downloadable games tend to have a limited number of boot-ups before they're set to "Lock". The exact number, I do not know whether it's dependent on the game or not... but the "lock" is done by a single byte in the ROM's header, which also detects the number of times a game has booted up. (I do not know if any other factors can increase this value)
When the game is set to "lock", the BS-X itself will no longer detect it. The only way to salvage data out of a Memory Pack like this is to dump it's ROM contents and try booting it up in an emulator (Note, though, that BSNES will emulate the lock itself, meaning you won't be able to use that unless you can hack the lock out of the ROM - actually a fairly easy thing to do, but not something I'd recommend.)
As an example, I know that the Satellaview download version of "Zelda no Densetsu: Kamigami no Triforce" has a limited number of boot-ups before it "locks". When the game locks, it'll almost look like a "here today, gone tomorrow" situation - like the game just vanished. If you dump the Memory Pack's ROM, though, you should be able to play it on an emulator that can emulate the Satellaview's SRAM functions properly. Unfortunately, there is no way to reverse a "lock" in the 8M Pack itself, and trying to develop a method is potentially just a step away from full-on ROM copying.

Hack the header is not a problem..
but reading what you said there's a big possibility that Sutte could go in lock

thanks for the info anyway

[Kiddo]

Unfortunately I don't have a good guide on game-by-game "lock" details, and since most carts are owned second-hand now, the exact amount of boots to lock might not be know.

That being said, one way to tell if it -can- lock is by checking the current ROM releases - some verified dumps are "locked" due to how their status was when dumped. These wouldn't be detected to boot and won't load on BSNES without a header modification. If one of the Sutte Hakkun releases are ROM dumped in a "locked" state, it might be a good idea to preserve your legit-owned copy's state, as it's possible the very next boot-up could be it's last. (Very scary, huh, folks?)

EDIT: I decided to do this check myself.

In a hilROM download, the location of the byte which does the "lock" would b FFD5 in a hex editor. the value for a "Lock" is 80. Sutte Hakkun Event Version 2's value is set at "00", which matches the BS Kirby byte in it's header. This leads me to think that Sutte Hakkun Event Version 2 shouldn't expire.

[Kamigami]

ok i checked too and at offset ffd5 the value is 00.
i'm safe fiuuu.

oh i can proof that booting sutte hakkun hundreds of time
what do you think>? XD

[Kiddo]

Um, That sounds a bit dangerous for factors besides the possibility of lockout.
But in the end, it's your cart. And besides, I can't complain about free research ginuea pigs. :P

[Kamigami]

Um, That sounds a bit dangerous for factors besides the possibility of lockout.
But in the end, it's your cart. And besides, I can't complain about free research ginuea pigs. :P

yes it is.
in fact i was joking.. considering what that small cart cost

[vrikkgwj]

This is what I did. Cost a whole lot less, and runs like a dream.

[Jorpho]

This is what I did. Cost a whole lot less, and runs like a dream.

Do you own your own EEPROM burner? And what cart did you cannibalize?

(Not that I'm saying that even the most fanciful calculations could possibly produce a figure anywhere near $500.)

[vrikkgwj]

It didn't cost a whole lot, this was a joint effort and was actually my very first repro cart I made since I could never find a ROM that would work on a computer. Funny enough on my SNES runs it without a problem like I said. I wish I did a better job on the cart label, but for my first job ever I am not upset by it. My Front Mission one is the best I have done.

[Kamigami]

Do you own your own EEPROM burner? And what cart did you cannibalize?

(Not that I'm saying that even the most fanciful calculations could possibly produce a figure anywhere near $500.)

you cand o that with secret of mana USA or japanese equivalent.
Or any other games which have that pcb.

something about 30 or 40 $

it's not like having the real 500$ mempack but hey..
btw it only make sense for the translation

[Kiddo]

Can you make a repro 8M Memory Pack? :P

[vrikkgwj]

Can you make a repro 8M Memory Pack? :P

Don't know, never looked into it.

[Kiddo]

Well, the 1st page of discussion was more or less exploring the subject/possible ramifications.

However, one additional thing I will add is that there IS Known to be the existence of some 8M Packs that had ROM instead of Flash RAM - I believe the Same Game Koma Data and Tengai Makyo Koma data are such. Perhaps it is possible to work with those? Just beware, working with the Satellaview in it's current state is quite a bit more limiting than working with standard SFC.

[Jorpho]

You did see the pic at the bottom of http://bof2.blogspot.com/ , right? It's definitely been done.

[Kiddo]

The description of that picture does not imply any mod to have been done to the 8M Memory Pack itself, which would hold the actual software data for BS-X to boot. It just seems to be a SFC internal hardware mod - as far as I know, the Satellaview set in that picture could be just for show.

(In short: That doesn't seem to be what I'm talking about at all.)

[Jorpho]

Well, like it says:

the stuff connected below and on top of the snes happens to be my satellaview testing rig with a special homebrewn flashcart.

[Kiddo]

Hm. Ok, that line I missed sounds like the interesting/relevant part. It seems to imply he has a flashcart that's customized for this thing (Perhaps able to have it's data written into via USB or somesuch?)