Recent NES black box sales

[Bojay1997]

I agree in part and strongly disagree in part with what you're saying here. The days of game collectors being a small community of people who help each other and share finds and deals seems to be long over. There are tons of flippers and resellers who basically hang out on the leading forums and auction sites and scoop up deals there or use the information they acquire to make more and more money. I think that has seriously hurt collecting in general as it makes it very hard to know who to trust or how much information to post about deals or finds.

Having said all that, I still have a small group of collector friends locally I meet up with regularly and I have a number of long-time collector friends here and elsewhere that I exchange info with through PMs and e-mails. It's just kind of sad that the old days of being able to trust and get along with the majority of collectors and knowing that the majority weren't just looking to turn a profit seems to be a thing of the past. I don't agree that the solution is to sink to the level of the flippers, side dealers and profiteers. Ultimately, like in every hobby, the bubble will burst and those people will move on and the collector population will shrink and things will go back to how they were in the old days or something pretty close to it.

I agree nintendoage is a creepy website, and they basically have a set group of friends that dictate what the overall all opinion of collecting should be. If you don't agree with that or fall into line then you're out. I also find it funny that the main "banning mod" is some kind of Boston tough guy that posts videos of his "boxing matches" yet he's stays skinny as hell because he's sacred to move up in weight and box with the big boys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q30-...m0U7LzYdpblfs=

I mean come on you think because you joined a boxing gym and you participate in there "tournaments" you're a tough guy? You're a collector (allegedly) yet your youtube channel is full of your sparring matches. Do you know how many boxing gyms there are in the country and there all the same you train for 6 months and if you want you can participate in there annual "tournaments"... Go to fighttips or boxingscene or sherdog if you want to show off your "skills" but trying to flex your E-Alphaness on a gaming website... And yes i'm aware that his partner in crime is bagelpuss.

They will be the first ones to "backdoor" someone and the first to justify why when they did it and that it was ok. Yet if someone else does it it's wrong... Him and his brother are part of the reason the community has become creepy and splintered , buying up prototypes and selling them in reproduction form for profit. And there always "Above everyone" like yea there collectors yet there not nerds because they box... Don't get me started on the rest of the creepy dudes over on NA. And no I've never been banned I'm a long time lurker that never felt it was a real community so i rarely post.

This collecting community as a whole has never felt more vapid and empty, most of the time when people post there "finds of the day" there just links to there youtube channels so they can get more hits. And as game collecting has become more popular it's become more empty, everyone and there mom is a re-seller now. Craigslist is a shell of what it used to be.

And from what i have seen as a whole people in this community are becoming much more inverted about what and how they collect, people get very jealous over other peoples finds or collection a lot more so then say 5 years ago. And WTF is with everyone over at NA keeping secrets about what they paid for stuff. It's a video game, they have no problem showing it off but don't tell anyone how much you paid for it what is that all about?

Do you really think people care that you decide to redo your bathroom instead of keeping a game sealed in a case? Does it make you feel better if people know that while you collect games you're not that "hardcore" because you redid your bathroom instead of keeping the Flintstones on your shelf. You and your brother act like you're above collecting but you guys seem to always be the first ones to e-prove yourselves that you're still cool...

The entire collecting community is a shell of what it used to be, more people seem to spend there time bitching about what everyone is paying for stuff and what is "right" or "wrong" ethically. Yet EVERYONE does and will backdoor people on ebay or craigslist given the opportunity or chance. At this point i say do what ever the fuck you want as long as it's legal and don't let anyone convince you what is right or wrong when collecting video games...

[BeaglePuss]

Let me get this straight:
- Mark and I are both skinny
- We both box
- We get eBay side deals from time to time in order to flip for a profit
- I redid my bathroom with the profits from sealed games
- We buy prototypes and release the games as pirates/reproductions
- We flop our e-dicks on the table every chance we get

Well, I would love to correct you, but literally every point you've made is accurate. Eerily so honestly.

While I would love to further talk about myself, this thread has little to do with me. I didn't sell or buy a single title listed by the OP. So why don't we stay on topic?

These are the facts that I can gather:
- Sealed titles are selling for astronomical/insane amounts.
- Some people are pissed about it.

Did I miss anything? Bronies?

[Panzerfuzion]

Let me get this straight:
- Mark and I are both skinny
- We both box
- We get eBay side deals from time to time in order to flip for a profit
- I redid my bathroom with the profits from sealed games
- We buy prototypes and release the games as pirates/reproductions
- We flop our e-dicks on the table every chance we get

Well, I would love to correct you, but literally every point you've made is accurate. Eerily so honestly.

While I would love to further talk about myself, this thread has little to do with me. I didn't sell or buy a single title listed by the OP. So why don't we stay on topic?

These are the facts that I can gather:
- Sealed titles are selling for astronomical/insane amounts.
- Some people are pissed about it.

Did I miss anything? Bronies?

I want you to know that i fully understand the anger, frustration and sadness you have inside over the shame you have brought upon yourselves and the gaming community. What you have done can be forgiven over time but will never be forgotten. I want you to take command over your aura, let your synapse flow with positive energy. Don't allow yourself or your brother to be shackled by the weight of your sins. Never forget how much me or the rest of the community loved you and that we only are saddened by the continually of your arrogance. We have and will always be here for you and that the feelings you harbor are only your self projected fears that you've placed upon yourselves as a Defence mechanism. Take care my friend and may i hope your destination is as rewarding as the journey.

[portnoyd]

I would like nominate panzerfuzion for Internets User of the Century of the Week. Serious win in every post. Where have you been all our lives?

Onto the topics at hand.

Concerning the reselling/flipping trend, 10 years ago, we had these things called TRADEBOXES and we actually TRADED with them! Crazy, I know. Sure, you can make direct bank for more purchases but you give up the true community aspect that builds by trading with people where both parties get something they want out of it and you talk with someone more than you haggle with them. Believe it or not, 10 years ago, we didn't price everything here for a reason. WTT has given way to FS.

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles. The one idiot who is buying up said black box games like very expensive candy, is the reason why. Based on what others posters have said here, since he seems to be one of the uneducated masses who use eBay as the sole metric (likewise, Etler's list as a guide - yes, these people still exist), you have to wonder what motivated him to spend so much on what we, the educated masses, would call a foolhardy investment.

And what's to stop the next person like this one to do the same, but spend more? Or what is going to stop him from using his wallet as a weapon on loose and complete titles? People like this will just follow the ones before them as they don't know any better... and things keep going up. You can't really say that these people will keep blinders on to other areas of collecting as well as be discrete with their purchases especially when they are not as educated collecting-wise as everyone who has posted in this thread. If you don't know any better, and you just saw someone spend $25k on a sealed Baseball (if you're not involved in the community, you'd never know he negotiates down!), would it make sense that you could think the value of baseball is even some percentage of that now?

Next: Why did sealed blackbox man make that decision to go wild with his money?

Due to the recession, traders and investors have moved from stocks and commodities to collectibles. And game collecting has made itself the perfect environment to enter. Prices show strong growth. There is a perfect dispersion of rare titles and popular ones to keep your options open. Nostalgia fuels bringing new collectors (and their disposable income) into the fold. VGA has arrived and made more quantifiable tiers to approach beyond loose, complete and sealed. Not to mention the Nintendo method for sealing games brings an identifiable (H SEEEEAMMM!!11) and relatively easy (compared to Genesis especially) way to confirm legitimacy.

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

As someone who has benefited, and might I say greatly, from the increase in prices, I don't necessarily like it. The entry point to NES is constantly going up and new collectors are constantly having to short change themselves to collect like a lot of us did in the past. I am an old collecting fart, no doubt about it, and I know times change but I would want nothing to stop new collectors from experiencing what I did because it was great. It really has gotten to the point where old timers like myself are the ones who got driven to school and the new collectors had to walk 5 miles in the freezing cold to get there. That just doesn't jive with me and it all goes back to the point of skaar's posts.

Collecting is no longer a hobby. A hobby is for relaxation and enjoyment. Collecting is now an investment. And see how that worked out for the comic book investors back in the 90s. Which is why, if you are concerned with the value of your collection, you should have the trigger finger on Turbolister to sell everything locked and loaded. It's like the Price is Right, as close to without going over. I don't have my trigger finger on anything - I'm just observing now and trying to collect while dodging the insanity. I hope when the dust settles, everyone who posted here is too, fwiw, it'll show me that you were here for the right (that being, what I feel is right) reasons.

I genuinely hope it crashes down so it goes back to being an accessible, fun hobby again.

[Panzerfuzion]

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles.

An extremely educated and astute point, this at it's core is the basis of the frustration over high priced sealed collecting.

[Buyatari]

An extremely educated and astute point, this at it's core is the basis of the frustration over high priced sealed collecting.

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Sure some people overprice their common games. So what. These games don't sell because they are overpriced and the seller is eventually forced to drop the price or hold them forever. Sealed black box games selling for 25k may create some higher asking prices on loose Top Gun carts at the flee market but it won't create higher sales.

Other than "shit I should have picked up more of these when they were cheap" I just don't understand why anyone would care esp to the degree that people do. If you do meet someone who is convinced that loose NES systems are now worth $500 I like to say "ok buddy I have 20 to spare how about I sell them to you for $50 each?"

If the most you want to spend is say $50-$60 (price of new retail game) and you just want to play the game there is very little in the past 5 years that has gone from affordable to unaffordable. Some loose games have even gone backwards. Hundred dollar games are now several hundred and thousand dollar games and now several thousand but most $10-$30 are still $10-$30

Loose copies of NES Punchout, Tecmo Superbowl, Contra, Zelda 1&2, Super Mario 1&2&3 have all gone nowhere in fact if you ask me they have gone down a bit in price. The only games that have really gone up in price are those that were already expensive anyway.

[Panzerfuzion]

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Sure some people overprice their common games. So what. These games don't sell because they are overpriced and the seller is eventually forced to drop the price or hold them forever. Sealed black box games selling for 25k may create some higher asking prices on loose Top Gun carts at the flee market but it won't create higher sales.

Other than "shit I should have picked up more of these when they were cheap" I just don't understand why anyone would care esp to the degree that people do. If you do meet someone who is convinced that loose NES systems are now worth $500 I like to say "ok buddy I have 20 to spare how about I sell them to you for $50 each?"

If the most you want to spend is say $50-$60 (price of new retail game) and you just want to play the game there is very little in the past 5 years that has gone from affordable to unaffordable. Some loose games have even gone backwards. Hundred dollar games are now several hundred and thousand dollar games and now several thousand but most $10-$30 are still $10-$30

Loose copies of NES Punchout, Tecmo Superbowl, Contra, Zelda 1&2, Super Mario 1&2&3 have all gone nowhere in fact if you ask me they have gone down a bit in price. The only games that have really gone up in price are those that were already expensive anyway.

You have to understand that paranoia is a fear manufactured by the enemies that lie within, unless we decided to stand up for our civil rights as collectors the crimes perpetrated against us will never end. Money is only an object created by the inception into our thoughts, the continued movement forward will only further pixelate our minds. Like a sonic wind thrust upon us by the demons of the past we will only be eternally rewarded when the men whose deeds are unholy are pushed into the streets by the heroine's who have the unadulterated power to do so. This is beginning of a great revolution where the past becomes present and the present becomes clean once again.

[Buyatari]

You have to understand that paranoia is a fear manufactured by the enemies that lie within, unless we decided to stand up for our civil rights as collectors the crimes perpetrated against us will never end. Money is only an object created by the inception into our thoughts, the continued movement forward will only further pixelate our minds. Like a sonic wind thrust upon us by the demons of the past we will only be eternally rewarded when the men whose deeds are unholy are pushed into the streets by the heroine's who have the unadulterated power to do so. This is beginning of a great revolution where the past becomes present and the present becomes clean once again.

Drugs are bad.

[Panzerfuzion]

Drugs are bad.

3 words is all you have, and you insult me with a cliche saying that's been around since before both of us were conceived. Just because my lyrical poetry is to much for you to comprehend in your current state please let me assure you that the clarity of my words will one day rain upon you like a glorious golden shower of extacy. Stay well my friend.

[portnoyd]

I think this is an overly paranoid view that sealed games and NA are somehow behind some plot which affects even loose common games.

Did I mention NA in my post at all?

Funny that you call my post overly paranoid when you come up with a 'plot' that involves something that I didn't mention.

All I'm saying is this. Look at the chart on the right side.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

A 50% jump over 2 years ago, a 37% jump over a year ago. That has to count for something.

[BeaglePuss]

Edit: Fuck it, I couldn't be bothered at this point.

[Panzerfuzion]

Edit: Fuck it, I couldn't be bothered at this point.

Yes my child let the anger flow through your veins like a rouge virus looks to spread it's satanic seamen. Escape from the wonderland that is ignorance and let the truth capture your imagination. Your at the edge of darkness and it doesn't have to be that way, you can join the force's of morality and stop the confidential rampage you have set forth onto yourself and those who surround you. You have the power of influence, so please choose to create a new dawn of an era. One which collectors look out for each other before themselves, where there is no concern over the latest bathroom redesigns because a properly placed toothbrush holder does not make the man. Please no more high BIN's while fielding for the highest offer or backdooring people on ebay because you are concerned over your latest home remodel. You were once one of us and along the way something happen, you lost your innocence and the battlefield over your own morality was to much for your soul to bare. Please we are here for you, change your ways no more evil collecting deeds, come to the light once again. Getting the highest price for a sealed Flintstones 2 will not fill you with joy, the true joy comes from the selfless act of a hometown discount or allowing yourself to help your fellow collector without the concern over the latest piece of Italian marble. Remember my son if it wasn't for us there would be no one to sell to in the first place. Take care my son and may you have continued success through your home remodeling journey.

[Buyatari]

Did I mention NA in my post at all?

Funny that you call my post overly paranoid when you come up with a 'plot' that involves something that I didn't mention.

All I'm saying is this. Look at the chart on the right side.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

A 50% jump over 2 years ago, a 37% jump over a year ago. That has to count for something.

According to that chart the average loose NES game is now worth about $12. Where do I cash in?

The expensive have gotten more expensive and the affordable are still affordable. If you average those two for sure the average has gone up but in reality only a few have gone nuts. The popular games people ask for at my store to play have gone nowhere in price.

http://videogames.pricecharting.com/game/nes/contra

[Buyatari]

I would like nominate panzerfuzion for Internets User of the Century of the Week. Serious win in every post. Where have you been all our lives?

Onto the topics at hand.

Concerning the reselling/flipping trend, 10 years ago, we had these things called TRADEBOXES and we actually TRADED with them! Crazy, I know. Sure, you can make direct bank for more purchases but you give up the true community aspect that builds by trading with people where both parties get something they want out of it and you talk with someone more than you haggle with them. Believe it or not, 10 years ago, we didn't price everything here for a reason. WTT has given way to FS.

You can't look at black box sealed games as a secular bubble that won't affect general loose prices. Anything that increases the perception that NES is valuable and a worthy investment will bleed out to loose and complete titles. The one idiot who is buying up said black box games like very expensive candy, is the reason why. Based on what others posters have said here, since he seems to be one of the uneducated masses who use eBay as the sole metric (likewise, Etler's list as a guide - yes, these people still exist), you have to wonder what motivated him to spend so much on what we, the educated masses, would call a foolhardy investment.

And what's to stop the next person like this one to do the same, but spend more? Or what is going to stop him from using his wallet as a weapon on loose and complete titles? People like this will just follow the ones before them as they don't know any better... and things keep going up. You can't really say that these people will keep blinders on to other areas of collecting as well as be discrete with their purchases especially when they are not as educated collecting-wise as everyone who has posted in this thread. If you don't know any better, and you just saw someone spend $25k on a sealed Baseball (if you're not involved in the community, you'd never know he negotiates down!), would it make sense that you could think the value of baseball is even some percentage of that now?

Next: Why did sealed blackbox man make that decision to go wild with his money?

Due to the recession, traders and investors have moved from stocks and commodities to collectibles. And game collecting has made itself the perfect environment to enter. Prices show strong growth. There is a perfect dispersion of rare titles and popular ones to keep your options open. Nostalgia fuels bringing new collectors (and their disposable income) into the fold. VGA has arrived and made more quantifiable tiers to approach beyond loose, complete and sealed. Not to mention the Nintendo method for sealing games brings an identifiable (H SEEEEAMMM!!11) and relatively easy (compared to Genesis especially) way to confirm legitimacy.

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

As someone who has benefited, and might I say greatly, from the increase in prices, I don't necessarily like it. The entry point to NES is constantly going up and new collectors are constantly having to short change themselves to collect like a lot of us did in the past. I am an old collecting fart, no doubt about it, and I know times change but I would want nothing to stop new collectors from experiencing what I did because it was great. It really has gotten to the point where old timers like myself are the ones who got driven to school and the new collectors had to walk 5 miles in the freezing cold to get there. That just doesn't jive with me and it all goes back to the point of skaar's posts.

Collecting is no longer a hobby. A hobby is for relaxation and enjoyment. Collecting is now an investment. And see how that worked out for the comic book investors back in the 90s. Which is why, if you are concerned with the value of your collection, you should have the trigger finger on Turbolister to sell everything locked and loaded. It's like the Price is Right, as close to without going over. I don't have my trigger finger on anything - I'm just observing now and trying to collect while dodging the insanity. I hope when the dust settles, everyone who posted here is too, fwiw, it'll show me that you were here for the right (that being, what I feel is right) reasons.

I genuinely hope it crashes down so it goes back to being an accessible, fun hobby again.

I just don't see it. Sure certain items have gone up in value WAY up in some cases but the vast majority of videogames are very afforable. For someone starting videogame collecting today there are so many games to collect under $50 or even under $20 that most will never reach the end of say a complete collection of every videogame priced under $20.

I don't understand why things are no longer fun because of this. Times have changed for sure but as some older games go up in price lots of newer games are going down in price.

[portnoyd]

So here are people like Braveheart69 (complete black box hoarding and prices), Mario's Right Nut (complete copies of SE hoarding) and gwyidion (homebrew prices and hoarding) with large bank accounts and opportunity to take hold of and so they did. And they are still around and not going anywhere. Also, this blackbox guy is proof more are on the way.

I'm quoting this because everyone passed it off, especially buyatari as an 'overly paranoid' view but no one countered it. So here we go:

Braveheart69 is shilling like crazy any black box auction to boost prices to make what he has even more valuable.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sort=3&guest=1

Note the feedback: 3283 (as of 4/15). Now look at this infamous DK Jr Math lot auction:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290690633965

Do you see a familiar number? e***r (3283)? Also look at the bids. He made half of them.

This is clearly braveheart69, someone who owns a ridiculously mint copy of DK Jr Math from TheFrisbee. He's either trying to hoard these, boost prices or both.

How is my assertion overly paranoid again? And don't say you can't counter it - I mean, "fuck It, (you) can't be bothered at this point" if you're going to reply at all.

[Buyatari]

I'm quoting this because everyone passed it off, especially buyatari as an 'overly paranoid' view but no one countered it. So here we go:

Braveheart69 is shilling like crazy any black box auction to boost prices to make what he has even more valuable.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sort=3&guest=1

Note the feedback: 3283 (as of 4/15). Now look at this infamous DK Jr Math lot auction:

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290690633965

Do you see a familiar number? e***r (3283)? Also look at the bids. He made half of them.

This is clearly braveheart69, someone who owns a ridiculously mint copy of DK Jr Math from TheFrisbee. He's either trying to hoard these, boost prices or both.

How is my assertion overly paranoid again? And don't say you can't counter it - I mean, "fuck It, (you) can't be bothered at this point" if you're going to reply at all.

So what, this still doesn't affect loose carts.

I still stand by what I said. Most loose carts worth $30-20 and under five years ago are still worth $30-20 and under. A few may have become pricey but for the most part only the games worth more than $50 five years ago are worth more than $50 now. Some have fallen in price.

I don't understand how a few titles in a certain condition selling for big bucks changes anything if you just want to collect videogames for fun. I would bet you that there are still thousands of games worth under $20 that you still do not own if you look across all platforms and all regions.

[portnoyd]

So what, this still doesn't affect loose carts.

I still stand by what I said. Most loose carts worth $30-20 and under five years ago are still worth $30-20 and under. A few may have become pricey but for the most part only the games worth more than $50 five years ago are worth more than $50 now. Some have fallen in price.

I don't understand how a few titles in a certain condition selling for big bucks changes anything if you just want to collect videogames for fun. I would bet you that there are still thousands of games worth under $20 that you still do not own if you look across all platforms and all regions.

Nice deflection. You are proving to be quite the expert at dismissing people's claims.

How is it overly paranoid when I cite the evidence above?

[Buyatari]

Nice deflection.

You can count on this in just about any hobby. Comic,cards,coins,stamp whatever. The rare most desired expensive items in top condition will continue to go up and up and will continue to go up so long as there are people out there collecting them. Some people who recognize this may take advantage but without rarity and demand it wouldn't be possible. Having the forsight to take advantage of such a situation doesn't mean you created it single handedly. Without new buyers willing to shell out more and more it just wouldn't happen no matter how many you tried to put away.

Still none of this should matter if you just want to collect games and enjoy collecting videogames cheaply. There is plenty out there that is cheap and that will stay cheap for a long long time.

[BeaglePuss]

Evidence that Braveheart bid on a black box title he already owns? What does that have to do with the price of loose black box games (over even sealed black box games that the thread was originally about)?

[jonebone]

Yeah hoarding is basically a big middle finger to the collecting community, and I find it disgraceful that a "mod" does that, but that's another argument. It's one thing to buy another for an upgrade, or to buy another for tradebait, but at some point it becomes quite excessive. But quite frankly, it's not my business what anyone does with their money (and I don't really care), I just hate to see such a figurehead be all about the money.

However, I don't think that CIB or sealed hoarding has too much of an effect on loose prices. What it does prove, is your point about the "hobby" being more like a business these days. It's sad but true, and it will never revert back to how it was. I can't say that I really remember those days though, as I started in 2008 and things were still pretty "business-like" at the time. Values were just drastically cheaper.