Recent NES black box sales

[jonebone]

Yeah hoarding is basically a big middle finger to the collecting community, and I find it disgraceful that a "mod" does that, but that's another argument. It's one thing to buy another for an upgrade, or to buy another for tradebait, but at some point it becomes quite excessive. But quite frankly, it's not my business what anyone does with their money (and I don't really care), I just hate to see such a figurehead be all about the money.

However, I don't think that CIB or sealed hoarding has too much of an effect on loose prices. What it does prove, is your point about the "hobby" being more like a business these days. It's sad but true, and it will never revert back to how it was. I can't say that I really remember those days though, as I started in 2008 and things were still pretty "business-like" at the time. Values were just drastically cheaper.

[Buyatari]

Yeah hoarding is basically a big middle finger to the collecting community, and I find it disgraceful that a "mod" does that, but that's another argument. It's one thing to buy another for an upgrade, or to buy another for tradebait, but at some point it becomes quite excessive. But quite frankly, it's not my business what anyone does with their money (and I don't really care), I just hate to see such a figurehead be all about the money.

However, I don't think that CIB or sealed hoarding has too much of an effect on loose prices. What it does prove, is your point about the "hobby" being more like a business these days. It's sad but true, and it will never revert back to how it was. I can't say that I really remember those days though, as I started in 2008 and things were still pretty "business-like" at the time. Values were just drastically cheaper.

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

[Panzerfuzion]

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

Replace Atari with Nintendo or Sega and you have the Nolan's...

[BeaglePuss]

Replace Atari with Nintendo or Sega and you have the Nolan's...

[Panzerfuzion]

Thank you my friend for the response I was looking for, also for showing the collecting world what your modus operandi is. Take Care.

[Bojay1997]

For you personally it may have always been about the money, but having been a collector since 1989, I can honestly say the whole flipping/reselling thing is a relatively new phenomenon, at least in the scale and scope it's happening today and it's still not where most collectors are operating. For most of the 90s and even into the 2000s, there were a number of good on-line small retailers selling old games at reasonable prices, plenty of Ebay auctions that were actual auctions and plenty of collectors who traded or sold stuff at or below cost whenever they met up at various local gatherings or CGE and other regional conventions. I know I have given away thousands of dollars in duplicate games and consoles over the years to new collectors and I know many other collectors have done the same thing. In short, collecting was always a community first and the whole money thing was completely secondary. Similarly, the vast majority of people collecting prototypes and other rare items in the 90s were not doing it for the money. They did it to preserve the games and to build interesting and unique collections. Heck, if everyone was doing it for the money, there would be no museum at CGE or large holdings of rare Atari items like Curt Vendel's collection.

With the rise of NES collecting and grading, the whole flipper/reseller thing has reached alarming proportions. For me personally, it troubles me that these resellers are contributing nothing to the collecting community, using tips and resources from collectors to profit and essentially sitting on Ebay to grab stuff only to have it graded and re-sell it a month or two later at several times the original price. There is no real work going into the process, it's not like these people are going out and searching swap meets or thrifts or scouring distributor warehouses for the stuff, they are simply snagging games before other non-flipper/reseller collectors can purchase them on Ebay and marking up the prices to absrud levels.

I guess my major trouble with all of this is that there seems to be a lack of outrage against these resellers. I have no problem with people selling their excess or even buying lots and breaking it up, removing what they need for their own collection. I do have an issue with people doing the perpetual Ebay flipping and justifying it by saying it supports their collection. Those resellers hurt other collectors by taking away their opporunity to grow their collections at reasonable prices. That should not be commended or accepted. Similarly, these resellers shouldn't be allowed to have free access to the knowledge and advice of collectors who really do care about the games and want to help other members of the community to grow their collections and not profit financially.

I've collected many things over the years and I am very confident that at some point in the near future, the bubble will burst and the resellers will move on like they always do. Until then, there are plenty of collectors out there who care about the games first and preserving history and who will continue to operate in the spirit of the old days of video game collecting.

I've been collecting since the 90's and it is always been about the money.

When DreamTr tracked down every NWC cartridge he could find.
When the race was on to track down every former (Atari,Coleco,Vectrex,etc) company employee before the next guy.
When Atari guys fought for prototypes just so they could be the one to re-release them in qty of 250 at $50 each.
It was always about the money.

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Bragging rights and reselling have always been a big part of this hobby and cash as they say is king. I remember the first time I saw a Atari game rarity list. Instantly in that moment it hit me that videogames were the next big hobby. If you got in early and bought the right stuff you could name your price. Last month I unloaded hundreds of new Atarisoft titles which I horded for 10+ years for $1.50 each to another local just to make room in the house. As you may have guessed not everything I expected to appreciate in value has but somethings have way beyond my expectations. Had I been BuyNintendo instead of BuyAtari I'm sure I'd be able to retire right now.

I like videogames but I can't pay the rent with them nor can I feed my family with them without converting them into cash. When long time collectors find themsleves in a rut they sell off the games they collected. In a way for some it is a part of growing up and setting priorities. It is selfish to keep a game that is now worth 10k when your family could use a new car?

The only difference today is that the money is bigger which happens in time with all hobbies that do not fade away and the transactions are more public. In the past many high dollar sales were private and not made public but now that they have become more obvious I can tell you that they have always been there and that money has been a factor for as long as I have been collecting.

That doesn't mean is has to be the hobby for you. You can just collect what you enjoy and there is plenty out there which is cheap.

[treismac]

I've collected many things over the years and I am very confident that at some point in the near future, the bubble will burst and the resellers will move on like they always do. Until then, there are plenty of collectors out there who care about the games first and preserving history and who will continue to operate in the spirit of the old days of video game collecting.

Let the bubble burst, and burst soon. Let the resellers move on to other pastures. But most of all, let us who love video games continue to play, collect, share, and preserve our beloved hobby long after the money has left our scene.

[Kevincal]

You all know the real culprit in all of this, that enabled the explosion of video game collecting craziness..

EBAY.

without ebay most video game values would be insanely lower. But ebay put video game collecting in the limelight and its only grown stronger since ebay came around in the mid 90's.

[Buyatari]

You all know the real culprit in all of this, that enabled the explosion of video game collecting craziness..

EBAY.

without ebay most video game values would be insanely lower. But ebay put video game collecting in the limelight and its only grown stronger since ebay came around in the mid 90's.

The internet has made the world a smaller place. Without it videogames would have taken a much longer time to mature as a collectable but comic books and baseball cards were able to do so prior to the interent and videogames would have done so without it as well.

[Griking]

You all know the real culprit in all of this, that enabled the explosion of video game collecting craziness..

EBAY.

without ebay most video game values would be insanely lower. But ebay put video game collecting in the limelight and its only grown stronger since ebay came around in the mid 90's.

Yup. and I remember clearly when the people around here would deny that eBay sets the value of what a game is worth. Almost EVERYONE who resells items will check to see what an item sells for on eBay before selling it in their local store. Pawn shops do it, consignment shops do it, Goodwills do it and you know damned well that most of the people at flea markets do it. Now you can argue that the prices that they reference aren't accurate, (I like to point out to my local Goodwill when they put a print out of an eBay auction to show an item's value that nobody actually bid on the auction that they're referencing) but they're what people base their prices on.

[Buyatari]

Let the bubble burst, and burst soon. Let the resellers move on to other pastures. But most of all, let us who love video games continue to play, collect, share, and preserve our beloved hobby long after the money has left our scene.

Somethings fall fall in price but the most desirable pieces in top condition will continue to rise. Baseball cards and comics both had huge collapses but the top material is worth more than ever. Videogames are a part of our culture and have replaced just about every toy known with kids today. Never before has one item been such a force with children. In the 60's,70's and even the 80's there were several items that each held a share of children and their playtime. Today videogames hold a larger share of that playtime than any other item ever. Love it or hate it, I don't see big prices ever going away and for the top items it will only get worse.

[Bojay1997]

Somethings fall fall in price but the most desirable pieces in top condition will continue to rise. Baseball cards and comics both had huge collapses but the top material is worth more than ever. Videogames are a part of our culture and have replaced just about every toy known with kids today. Never before has one item been such a force with children. In the 60's,70's and even the 80's there were several items that each held a share of children and their playtime. Today videogames hold a larger share of that playtime than any other item ever. Love it or hate it, I don't see big prices ever going away and for the top items it will only get worse.

We'll just have to disagree on this point. You're talking about mass market items that had print runs in the millions in many cases. People will be finding stashes of games for many, many years to come. Unlike old comics and baseball cards where distributors and to a greater extent regular people would have thrown them out because of the perception they were worthless and just had no purpose taking up space in a home or warehouse, it's a lot harder for someone to throw away old consoles and games. You can go to any swap meet or thrift store in the US and I guarantee you will find old video games. You can't say the same thing about baseball cards or comic books. Another part of it is that the general public is now aware that baseball cards and comics can be valuable. Despite Pawn Stars and a few other sources promoting the idea that video games are super valuable, I would argue that the general public has no idea of the current values and as such, they aren't digging through closets and attics to dump this stuff on the market just yet. Once video game collecting really gets mass publicity, there will be massive amounts of new stock discovered, I guarantee it.

As long as there are interested collectors, it's possible that prices will increase or at least remain stable. The problem right now is that stuff that really isn't all that rare is going for crazy amounts of money. Older and rarer stuff on platforms like the 2600 is either stable or has decreased in price. I believe it's because just like toys, video games are cyclical and depend on the personal experiences of the people who collect them. As more and more 2600 collectors age and loose interest, prices will continue to fall. The same will happen with the NES because the reality is that Nintendo has carried forward very few of its older IPs other than the obvious ones like Mario, etc...There is simply little current connection to much of the rest of the NES library, so right now demand is being driven almost exclusively by adults who owned the NES as kids. That generation will age and die out eventually and the cycle will repeat.

[Buyatari]

We'll just have to disagree on this point. You're talking about mass market items that had print runs in the millions in many cases. People will be finding stashes of games for many, many years to come. Unlike old comics and baseball cards where distributors and to a greater extent regular people would have thrown them out because of the perception they were worthless and just had no purpose taking up space in a home or warehouse, it's a lot harder for someone to throw away old consoles and games. You can go to any swap meet or thrift store in the US and I guarantee you will find old video games. You can't say the same thing about baseball cards or comic books. Another part of it is that the general public is now aware that baseball cards and comics can be valuable. Despite Pawn Stars and a few other sources promoting the idea that video games are super valuable, I would argue that the general public has no idea of the current values and as such, they aren't digging through closets and attics to dump this stuff on the market just yet. Once video game collecting really gets mass publicity, there will be massive amounts of new stock discovered, I guarantee it.

As long as there are interested collectors, it's possible that prices will increase or at least remain stable. The problem right now is that stuff that really isn't all that rare is going for crazy amounts of money. Older and rarer stuff on platforms like the 2600 is either stable or has decreased in price. I believe it's because just like toys, video games are cyclical and depend on the personal experiences of the people who collect them. As more and more 2600 collectors age and loose interest, prices will continue to fall. The same will happen with the NES because the reality is that Nintendo has carried forward very few of its older IPs other than the obvious ones like Mario, etc...There is simply little current connection to much of the rest of the NES library, so right now demand is being driven almost exclusively by adults who owned the NES as kids. That generation will age and die out eventually and the cycle will repeat.

I'm not saying the mass produced items of today will go up and up. What I am saying is that because there are mass produced items a market will exist for the rarest most desirable items of the past. Few people want Action Comics #1 because they remember reading it as a child. They want it because Superman has become an icon and the character lives on in movies and popular culture. I would argue that videogames today have a bigger impact on children and society than combic books ever had. They have a huge share of the marketplace and you will meet few people young or old who will have no idea who Mario or Sonic are.

Many 2600 items have fallen in price and I'd expect to continue to see some of this except for the rarest and most desirable items in top condition. I wouldn't ever worry about losing value on a complete Eli's Ladder.

[M.Buster2184]

Let the bubble burst, and burst soon. Let the resellers move on to other pastures. But most of all, let us who love video games continue to play, collect, share, and preserve our beloved hobby long after the money has left our scene.

Well put treismac. I can't imagine I'll ever collect sealed games. There are plenty games I'd like to have CIB, but too much trouble it seems to deal with collecting sealed games. Plus I'd want to play them and feel bad about opening them. Or I'd open them out of spite.

[Buyatari]

For you personally it may have always been about the money, but having been a collector since 1989, I can honestly say the whole flipping/reselling thing is a relatively new phenomenon, at least in the scale and scope it's happening today and it's still not where most collectors are operating. For most of the 90s and even into the 2000s, there were a number of good on-line small retailers selling old games at reasonable prices, plenty of Ebay auctions that were actual auctions and plenty of collectors who traded or sold stuff at or below cost whenever they met up at various local gatherings or CGE and other regional conventions. I know I have given away thousands of dollars in duplicate games and consoles over the years to new collectors and I know many other collectors have done the same thing. In short, collecting was always a community first and the whole money thing was completely secondary. Similarly, the vast majority of people collecting prototypes and other rare items in the 90s were not doing it for the money. They did it to preserve the games and to build interesting and unique collections. Heck, if everyone was doing it for the money, there would be no museum at CGE or large holdings of rare Atari items like Curt Vendel's collection.

With the rise of NES collecting and grading, the whole flipper/reseller thing has reached alarming proportions. For me personally, it troubles me that these resellers are contributing nothing to the collecting community, using tips and resources from collectors to profit and essentially sitting on Ebay to grab stuff only to have it graded and re-sell it a month or two later at several times the original price. There is no real work going into the process, it's not like these people are going out and searching swap meets or thrifts or scouring distributor warehouses for the stuff, they are simply snagging games before other non-flipper/reseller collectors can purchase them on Ebay and marking up the prices to absrud levels.

I guess my major trouble with all of this is that there seems to be a lack of outrage against these resellers. I have no problem with people selling their excess or even buying lots and breaking it up, removing what they need for their own collection. I do have an issue with people doing the perpetual Ebay flipping and justifying it by saying it supports their collection. Those resellers hurt other collectors by taking away their opporunity to grow their collections at reasonable prices. That should not be commended or accepted. Similarly, these resellers shouldn't be allowed to have free access to the knowledge and advice of collectors who really do care about the games and want to help other members of the community to grow their collections and not profit financially.

I've collected many things over the years and I am very confident that at some point in the near future, the bubble will burst and the resellers will move on like they always do. Until then, there are plenty of collectors out there who care about the games first and preserving history and who will continue to operate in the spirit of the old days of video game collecting.

There might be too much here to comment on for this thread.

-Collect for whatever reason you want. Money is still a factor and has always been a factor in transactions. Give things away but the value is always on your mind. Easier to give away a system and some loose games than it is an NWC cart when one just sold for $20k+ You might still give it away but it is a factor in your decision.

-Curt is one of the best you will find. He is a great guy with an amazing collection. If anyone can claim to not be in it for the money it would be him. Still he has sold things because people made incredible offers. He is not in it for the money but money was a factor in selling. There are things he would still own today if the offers he recieved were not exceptional.

-Money has always been a factor. Even if you don't resell and are just a collector you base the price you pay on recent.past and even projected future selling prices. No one pays 5-10k for something they believe is worth $50 to the rest of the world.

-There is nothing wrong with collecting for the enjoyment of collecting.

-There is nothing wrong with buying something with the intent to resell it for a profit at a future date. Should you instead put $1000 of your family savings in the bank making 1-2% if you just know you can double up in a month or two on a particular purchase? Would you honestly fault someone if they did either way?

[jonebone]

Collectors pick which systems to collect not based on what they enjoy or had as a kid but what everyone else is collecting. What is hot and what is not. The N64 is the best example of this. The N64 was the worst of the generation but it is Nintendo and has Mario and Zelda and many guys who never touched the system when it was available collect or resell for it today. I know a long time local collector who has never played a single game of Mario on any system. He played Doom and then Halo and COD but for right now at least Nintendo is where the money is.

Well you can speak for yourself there. I would part with every single item in my collection before parting with a few N64 games, it was my favorite system by far, and will always be my favorite system to collect for. With such a small library though, you run out of things to collect and eventually have to branch out, or stop collecting. So many of us branch out.

You favorites get you into the hobby, but at some point value does influence your purchases. I would collect Sega Genesis / WWF Wrestling VHS / and a few other things if value was all created equal. But it's not, so as you mention, I tend to focus on most things Nintendo.

So after you finish your favorites, most people continue to collect instead of stopping entirely. At that point you realize that your time is worth money, so you might as well collect things that have value associated with them. I don't think that makes it "all about the money though". When I think of "all about the money", it's the people who are a slave to eBay every single day in and out, with a continuous rotating stock of items for sale. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there are definitely more people like that now, than 4 years ago when I started. And probably even less back in the 90s.

[Buyatari]

Well you can speak for yourself there. I would part with every single item in my collection before parting with a few N64 games, it was my favorite system by far, and will always be my favorite system to collect for. With such a small library though, you run out of things to collect and eventually have to branch out, or stop collecting. So many of us branch out.

You favorites get you into the hobby, but at some point value does influence your purchases. I would collect Sega Genesis / WWF Wrestling VHS / and a few other things if value was all created equal. But it's not, so as you mention, I tend to focus on most things Nintendo.

So after you finish your favorites, most people continue to collect instead of stopping entirely. At that point you realize that your time is worth money, so you might as well collect things that have value associated with them. I don't think that makes it "all about the money though". When I think of "all about the money", it's the people who are a slave to eBay every single day in and out, with a continuous rotating stock of items for sale. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but there are definitely more people like that now, than 4 years ago when I started. And probably even less back in the 90s.

Perhaps you were a kid when N64 was released.

I owned retail gamestores when this system was current if you weren't a kid this was not your main system. Playstation was king. Of course I speak in general terms and there are always exceptions but when teenagers ,20 something or 30 something year old males walked into the store you just knew they wouldn't be asking for the latest N64 games. Now those same customers are asking if we have Harvest Moon and Conkers and I know they don't own the system. They played one system and collect/resell something totally different.

It will be curious to see if all these COD and Gears of War nuts ask about rare and expensive Wii games one day.