Retro Gamer ALERT!!! - A Revolution in retro game sound!

[Captain Wrong]

Actually farfel is right that a) anything you're getting by running a stereo signal through a Pro Logic set-up is a potentially pleasant but unintentional effect and b) any Pro Logic receiver will also do this. Hell, I have an old quadraphonic set up and it does this too.

Now, many of you are asking how this works. Though I don't know specifically how the Pro Logic IIx works, I do know how Dolby Pro Logic works because it's based on a similar algorythm to one of the old quadraphonic systems (QS, for those keeping score.)

It's a bit complicated, but here goes...what a matrix surround system like Dolby Surround is based on is out of phase sounds. That means if you have two sound waves coming at you the waves are either hitting their peaks and valleys at the same points (in phase) or they are hitting them at different times (out of phase.)

When you encode something for Dolby Surround, there are some sounds that are intentionally out of phase. When you play them back through a stereo setup, you don't notice anything. When you decode them with Dolby, what happens is each of the surround speakers has it's own mathmatical formula for combining the left and right channels and pulling out differences between them which brings certain sounds out and pushes others back based on how they are phased.

One of the simplest surround setups (called a Hafler circuit) adds a third speaker which is hooked up to the positive terminals from both the left and right channel. What this does is just give the difference between the two channels and can sometimes bring out something in a recording that's burried otherwise.

OK, that's a VERY simplistic explination. Hopefully that makes sense, because that's the easiest way I can think of to explain it.

Now, as to why it works for a non-encoded recording, anytime you have a stereo recording, there are natural differences in phase between sounds in the two channels. A decoder, like Dolby Surround, will find these differences regardless of if they are there intentionally or naturally. Sometimes you get a good effect, sometimes you get little or something weird.

Anyway, enough tech talk for today. Sorry if I confused anyone more. Quadraphonic and multi-channel sound just happens to be a hoby of mine, so this is something I know a little about. It's just a little hard to explain how it works.

[hydr0x]

@farfel and captain wrong

sorry guys but it seems you've never heard the difference between DPL 1 and 2, trust me, i worked in the HiFi department of our store for a while and i have heard a lot of stuff through all kind of systems and with all kinds of decodings, between DPL1 and 2 are WORLDS and you'll hear it after a few seconds, just go to your local HiFi expert and try it out, you WILL hear it and it's a vast improvement

btw, a good receiver doesn't cost 500, the good ones start at about 300... i don't own one because i can't afford it, but if i had a few hundred bucks to spend i'd grab one any second, although you also need a decent set of speakers to make it worth the purchase...

[Captain Wrong]

@farfel and captain wrong

sorry guys but it seems you've never heard the difference between DPL 1 and 2, trust me, i worked in the HiFi department of our store for a while and i have heard a lot of stuff through all kind of systems and with all kinds of decodings, between DPL1 and 2 are WORLDS and you'll hear it after a few seconds, just go to your local HiFi expert and try it out, you WILL hear it and it's a vast improvement

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. I know there's a difference. I didn't say there wasn't. What I did say way that you can extract a surround signal from a stereo source using any kind of Dolby Surround decoder, which is true. I didn't say it would be as good or whatever, only that this is not an exclusive feature of DPLIIx.

[hydr0x]

you did make it sound like there is no difference, you know, noone here said DPL2x is the only possibility to do this, he just said that it does it better, so by stating that DPL does it too you made it sound like "who needs DPL2x? it's no improvement to DPL which does the same and is cheaper!", if that wasn't what you were saying than excuse my previous statement

[ianoid]

Anthony1's posts are too long for me to read.

And the 'But wait, there's more' tone made me feel like he was going to sell me something at the end.

Perhaps they are informative messages, but I lost interest after 3 paragraphs.

[Captain Wrong]

you did make it sound like there is no difference, you know, noone here said DPL2x is the only possibility to do this, he just said that it does it better, so by stating that DPL does it too you made it sound like "who needs DPL2x? it's no improvement to DPL which does the same and is cheaper!", if that wasn't what you were saying than excuse my previous statement

You're excused.

[Ed Oscuro]

You don't need a 7.1 setup for Pro Logic IIx. You need a 5.1 setup. 5 speakers and a subwoofer.

If you have six speakers and a subwoofer, like I do, it's even better.

And if you have seven speakers and a subwoofer, it's even better than what I have.

But the bottom line, is that if you already have a 5.1 setup in your house, then you simply need to upgrade your reciever to hear this.

I have a low/medium grade pair of Sony headphones, and a nice pair of Sennheiser 'phones that I'm always wearing.

So, I still can't use this. I'll start caring when they make better headphones.

Still, your point is well taken.

[farfel]

2- not worth the 500 dolllars - 30 hours work investment
3- my PL1 converts even old stereo records to surround - good enough for now

30 hours of work? Are you talking about the amount of work you have to do at your job to pay for it

yes

I hate work. I don't want to spend 30 hours working just to buy a new PL2 stereo. I can live without. I rather spend those 30 hours playing games

[JR]

hmmmm Ide love to hear how it sounds when coding a non 5.1 signal or any format to do it properly. Having the rear l and r signal seperated is worlds of a difference. It makes the actual experience sooo much better. Thats what I want it to really do and do it well!

[JR]

farfel wrote:
yes

I hate work. I don't want to spend 30 hours working just to buy a new PL2 stereo. I can live without. I rather spend those 30 hours playing games

Heh I wish my next reciever would be that cheap. My next bump up would be a Denon AVR-5803, from my Kenwood VR-3090. Ill accept donations for my new reciever if anyone is interested! [/quote]

[Anthony1]

OK, I need to respond to some of the replies to this thread, because there are some big misconceptions, and people either a.) Aren't reading my entire posts or b.) Aren't believing what I'm trying to convey to them.


LET ME RESTATE WHAT I"M TRYING TO CONVEY


Here is the bottom line.


You might currently have a reciever that has Pro Logic. You might be perfectly happy with it. You might have a reciever with Pro Logic II, you might be perfectly happy with that. You might thing that what I'm talking about is just another surround simulation or something like that.

But the reality is that Pro Logic IIx shatters everything that came before it. Are you reading this? I said SHATTERS.

I'm not a audio junkie by any means. I'm not a audiofile type person. But I can assure you, that Dolby Pro Logic IIx will absolutely blow you out of the freaking water.

Do you remember that movie with Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan? You know the one where Chris Tucker says, "Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?"


Well, then I need to freaking say it. "DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT I HAVE TYPED IN THIS POST!"


I'm sorry to have to go all psycho on this, but some of you are totally not understanding the message that I'm trying to present to you.

What I'm saying to everybody is that Dolby Pro Logic IIx is something that is a huge freaking improvement in two channel sound. I gigantic improvement in two channel sound. I'm talking about Nobel Prize type of achievement.

Those of you that say that you already have Pro Logic and that you already have Pro Logic II, and that you don't want to spend a ton of money on a reciever and all of that. You must not believe what I'm saying. You must think that I'm just going on and on about something, that isn't really that big of a deal.

Let me tell you, this is a big freaking deal. It must be heard to be believed. I'm not playing around. This has to be heard.


By the way, I got my Onkyo reciever for $221.99. Not exactly $500 bucks. Also, I believe that there is Kenwood that has this for $149.99. So the whole, "It's too expensive, I don't need that" take isn't accurate. It's not too expensive, and if you have 5.1 speakers or better, then you definitely do need this.

You need this if you play any 2 channel sources. The difference is night and freaking day with certain sources. Like all the Sega Saturn games that I've tried it with so far.

Just take my Panzer Dragoon test. If you actually try Panzer Dragoon for the Saturn on a Pro Logic IIx reciever, with Pro Logic IIx Music activated, if you aren't totally blow away by the sound, then I will freaking eat this keyboard.

EOM

[JR]

Ohhhh someone go buy a new reciever. Test it out. Then come back here unsatisfied! I need vodeo of Anthony eating his keyboard!

[Anthony1]

Ohhhh someone go buy a new reciever. Test it out. Then come back here unsatisfied! I need vodeo of Anthony eating his keyboard!

Believe me, if somebody really takes my challenge, and they legitimately don't agree with me, then I really will eat my keyboard. Well, maybe just a few loose keys. I don't think I could digest this damn keyboard very well.


Here is the challenge:

1. You must hook a Sega Saturn up to a Audio Reciever that features Dolby Pro Logic IIx.

2. You must have 5 relatively good quality speakers and a relatively decent subwoofer hooked up to this reciever.

3. You must have the Speakers positioned in the correct locations. Center Channel speaker is supposed to be directly above or below the TV. The left main to the left of the TV, the right main to the right of the TV. The right surround to the right and somewhat behind you, the left surround to the left and somewhat behind you, and the subwoofer wherever it gives a nice solid tight responce.

4. You must put in Panzer Dragoon for the Saturn.

5. You must have the reciever in the Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music mode if the reciever offers it.

6. You sit in the right spot and see the full intro, then the start game screen, then the actual game.

7. You must have the volume relatively high to really experience it properly.


If you do all of that, and you honestly don't think that this is the most amazing advancement in sound, to take 2 channel sound to 5.1 or beyond, then I will eat several keys from my keyboard. I will take photos of me eating the keys. If you need proof I can also take photos of something else...he he.

[farfel]

You might have a reciever with Pro Logic II, you might be perfectly happy with that. You might thing that what I'm talking about is just another surround simulation or something like that.

But the reality is that Pro Logic IIx shatters everything that came before it. Are you reading this? I said SHATTERS.

In-home demo! Okay everyone, we're going to Anthony's this weekend. Be prepared to be shattered.

[Kamino]

I want to play games at anothony1's house. he has the big screen and the sound system... my girlfriends 13" hello kitty tv is killing me

But anothony1's set up isn't as CUTE. ;P

I was borderline suicidal dealing with a 19" until i could afford a new 27" a year and a half ago.
If i had a 13" Hello Kitty, i'd strangle myself with a NES controller cord.

@ Anthony1 and this actual thread; meh, if I upgrade to surround sound from true stereo, my led zeppelin LP's won't sound right.....i used to have a CD surround sound system until i traded it for my parents' 2 giant stereo speakers, stereo reciever, and a turntable. LONG LIVE VINYL

[SoulBlazer]

It's not that I don't believe you, and I know all about the glory of 5.1 speaker system with Dolby Surrond Sound and Pro Logic II.

But I just spent $400 on my receiver less then 20 months ago, and I'm NOT going to rush out and buy a NEW one when I have warrenties on this one lasting me for another 5 years.

But thanks for rubbing it in for the rest of us. :P

[hydr0x]

@kamino

you don't have to use the 5.1 function for your record, you can play them in stereo with just two speakers or add an subwoofer, whatever you want...

[slip81]

For all non believers I have to say that Anthony is right. I recently just got a 7.1 reciever (Sony STR-DE698) with DPLIIx and games an movies sound fantastic. I haven't tried it out with older stereo only systems yet, but I will real soon.

For all those who don't think that audio really matters in a game, don't knock it untill you've heard crap completely surround you in an Xbox FPS

[mattmcgrath25]

wtf is up with you anthony???

do you REALLY need to make such a huge post just to inform us about a technology that anyone interested in HiFi should know of for about a year??

This comment is for hydr0x and other people that feel the need to crap all over A1 after one of his technical posts:

Anthony1's technical posts are very informative; if you don't like the didactic tone, then don't read them.

I admire the fact that he has an almost little child-like enjoyment for stuff such as RGB and better sounding equipment - so much so that he immediately wants to tell everyone about it.

Now pointing out factual errors is an entirely different matter. But to just make a pointless negative comment is just straight up stupid.

[Jibbajaba]

I want to play games at anothony1's house. he has the big screen and the sound system... my girlfriends 13" hello kitty tv is killing me

Well he freakin lives in Sacramento. Lets go over there!

Chris