RetroN5: Hands on first look

[stardust4ever]

I've got $75 in Amazon credit I have no idea what to do with

There's a ton of stuff I could buy with a $75 Amazon credit. $25 more bucks buys you an Ouya.

http://www.amazon.com/

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah, if you're American, there's really no reason not to do it. As a Canadian it was considerably more difficult and expensive.

[YoshiM]

Well why not right? The barrier to entry is pretty low at $100, and even if you really don't like it, you can very likely recoup most of your money selling a like-new Ouya on the secondary market. If it were like, $300 or something, I think the situation would be very different, but really, all the people that I've ever spoken to that hate on the Ouya are people that have never owned one.

I forgot to mention I do have one as I got it as part of the Kickstarter. I was disappointed by the controller as it would lose signal and act funky on top of the whole sticky button and plate issue and the games at the time just didn't grab me like I hoped. The most I used it for was "Just Rain" to help my daughter fall asleep on the couch when she was sick. So I boxed it until digital rainfall was needed again.

It's good to read positives from people who don't seem like they are Ouya zealots. And it's easy to get swept up in the negativity when one already has issues with the product.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I totally understand how you feel. The Ouya laugh was rough.

You had people who had donated through kickstarter getting their consoles after several months of delays, and even the early access kickstarter version of the Ouya was inferior to the retail release!

The Ouya launch titles were hit-and-miss, with some truly terrible ports of games that should've been good, like Giana Sisters, ported for the excellent Giana Sisters DS. On Ouya though, Giana Sisters managed to have both visual and audio glitches and replaced all the beautiful sprites with ugly flash animation drawn characters.

And yeah, it took a good while for the Ouya's library to grow into something respectable.

HOWEVER, this is all in the past. Firmware revisions that fix basically everything that was wrong about the Ouya at launch and several quality games being released every week have turned the tables back in the Ouya's favor.

When I first bought my Ouya, I had very little interest in playing the games. It was all about the emulators. But now, there's just so much awesome stuff on Ouya that actually the emulators are the sideshow to the main attraction which are the neo-retro games.

If you own an Ouya, boot it up, update the firmware, browse the Discover Store. There's now a lot of great stuff on Ouya.

[stardust4ever]

I forgot to mention I do have one as I got it as part of the Kickstarter. I was disappointed by the controller as it would lose signal and act funky on top of the whole sticky button and plate issue and the games at the time just didn't grab me like I hoped. The most I used it for was "Just Rain" to help my daughter fall asleep on the couch when she was sick. So I boxed it until digital rainfall was needed again.

It's good to read positives from people who don't seem like they are Ouya zealots. And it's easy to get swept up in the negativity when one already has issues with the product.

I can relate a bit to that. I bought my Ouya pre-launch from a Kickstarter backer who was underwhelmed and disappointed. I had mixed feelings at first. Ouya was awesome, but certain aspects of it sucked at the same time.

My controller had a design flaw where the analog triggers reset their position whenever I pressed a face button. Face buttons and triggers would get stuck. I modded the controller with a Drumel drill to fix the mechanical issues. There were also severe lag issues and signal drops. I ultimately determined that the aluminum case acted as a Faraday cage, blocking the signal. I bought a retail controller at launch that did not exhibit the sticky triggers/buttons.

For the case, I had a custom acrylic case made to increase airflow and allow the wifi/bluetooth an unobstructed signal. My Ouya was now able to get a reliable connection to the router in the next room. I started using a spare PS3 controller with my Ouya, which still gets a better lag-free signal compared to the retail controller I bought at launch. I still use the Ouya controllers to run software that won't work with PS3.

Every couple months an update pops up that makes the Ouya more awesome. Either way, I am glad to have seen this little fun box succeed and become what it is today. I hope you give it another try. I'll be first in line with the 2nd generation Ouya comes out!

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I've never had any problem with the standard faceplates. I like that it's metal and cool to the touch. That said, I'd love to see your modded controller to get a better idea what you're talking about.

Also, until there's any news at all about the Retron5, this is now officialy the Ouya thread.

[Tanooki]

I can't tell and maybe it's because it's late if you're trying to be rude and condescending or not, but I'm sure it really is as easy as you said, but no I've never rooted anything ever on any device nor have I hacked any console to do anything 'interesting' too. I am from the US, but I'm not sure why being Canadian would be a bad thing on Amazon with $75 in credit.

At this rate as I said, I got that cable and can pop my tablet into the TV which kind of solved the problem. Beyond that I'd really have to dig into the nature of the Ouya to see if I'd find enough utility in it personally between its unique games that don't leave it, other apps too, and perhaps that XMBC media center setup as it could make for a nice MP3 player I suppose.


So you root the Ouya with those steps, then what's it take to fire up Google Play? Is there a rooted app for it, and then you just have it dump the games to the Ouya? Like I said it's not off the table, but I'd just need to go dig some more now that I have that tablet cable. I could definitely see since the controller supposedly sucks(whatever) using the Wii U Pro, PS3 or even the moga pro if that will work right(read conflicting stories.)

[stardust4ever]

Posted in wrong thread. Moved.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...=1#post2000213

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I can't tell and maybe it's because it's late if you're trying to be rude and condescending or not, but I'm sure it really is as easy as you said, but no I've never rooted anything ever on any device nor have I hacked any console to do anything 'interesting' too.

I wasn't trying to sound rude at all. Please don't take it that way. I'm trying to reassure you that rooting an Ouya is anything but complicated or difficult. It is really, really easy. Even softmodding an Xbox (which people commonly say is easy) is difficult compared to the process of rooting an Ouya. Literally, all you do is download a file from the internet, put it on the Ouya, launch it on the Ouya, and then click the giant blue button that essentially says "click here to root your Ouya".

I am from the US, but I'm not sure why being Canadian would be a bad thing on Amazon with $75 in credit.

I brought up the fact that I'm Canadian as a major hurtle because 99% of all Amazon sellers will not ship to Canada. At all. And Amazon.ca has 1/100th the selection of Amazon.com. Hey look the Ouya came out. Can I buy it on Amazon.ca? Of course not! It's not available. Hey look the Retron5 is coming out. Can I preorder it on Amazon.ca? What, are you kidding? Hey look a textbook I need for school. I'll just buy that on Amazon and...have to wait literally four months for delivery. As an Canadian, Amazon is a terrible place to shop. So to get an Ouya, I had to buy one from ebay and pay a heafty import fee that ended up bringing the overall price to $165. Even so, it was money well spent. I love my Ouya.

So you root the Ouya with those steps, then what's it take to fire up Google Play? Is there a rooted app for it, and then you just have it dump the games to the Ouya? Like I said it's not off the table, but I'd just need to go dig some more now that I have that tablet cable. I could definitely see since the controller supposedly sucks(whatever) using the Wii U Pro, PS3 or even the moga pro if that will work right(read conflicting stories.)

Exactly right. Once your Ouya is rooted, you download an installer, which puts the Google Play Store as a sideloaded app. This isn't complicated or difficult either. You click and access it on the Ouya just as you could your tablet or anything else. You can download directly from the Play Store to the Ouya and then the games or apps you download through the Play Store automatically get added to the sideloaded apps list in the MAKE/BUILDS section. Not everything on the Play Store works with the Ouya, but most apps do.

The controller does not suck. Not the current one. The kickstarter one does yes. But here's the great thing about the Ouya - even if you do hate the controller, you don't have to use it for the majority of games. Most things also support the PS3 controller, Xbox 360 conrtroller, or pretty much anything else that's either USB or Bluetooth.

[my video content]

Please delete this. I'll share this on my own, thank you very much, and not in this thread. This content belongs on page 3 of the Super Retro Trio thread, but page 3 hasn't rolled over yet. When it does, I'll post. For now, please delete these links.

it seems strange that Retrobit did not at least have a toggle switch to disable the NTSC CIC and allow most PAL games at least the opportunity to boot.

You don't understand. They couldn't have done that. The PAL SNES uses a TX0003812530 CIC, which is completely different from the TX0003812529 required to run NTSC games. These cannot be swapped, these cannot be disabled. Disabling them would render the system bricked. The PAL SNES market is a small one, so just like Yobo and Hyperkin, it's also unlikely that Retro-Bit will make a PAL version of the Super Retro Trio, although they could.

[stardust4ever]

Please delete this. I'll share this on my own, thank you very much, and not in this thread. This content belongs on page 3 of the Super Retro Trio thread, but page 3 hasn't rolled over yet. When it does, I'll post. For now, please delete these links.

Sh**, posted this in the wrong damn thread. Moving over. Page 3 is still a virgin. Take her now before it's too late!

You don't understand. They couldn't have done that. The PAL SNES uses a TX0003812530 CIC, which is completely different from the TX0003812529 required to run NTSC games. These cannot be swapped, these cannot be disabled. Disabling them would render the system bricked. The PAL SNES market is a small one, so just like Yobo and Hyperkin, it's also unlikely that Retro-Bit will make a PAL version of the Super Retro Trio, although they could.

Funny how "region free" clones run 98% of NTSC and Jap games, and many PAL games. Retrobit added the CIC technology so that it can run the remaining 2% (SA-1 games) but completely disable 100% of PAL titles as well as many bootlegs. There are mods to disable the lockout on an NTSC or PAL SNES, but it's complicated. Still, there's no reason Retrobit couldn't have built in some sort of CIC bypass.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Funny how "region free" clones run 98% of NTSC and Jap games, and many PAL games. Retrobit added the CIC technology so that it can run the remaining 2% (SA-1 games) but completely disable 100% of PAL titles as well as many bootlegs. There are mods to disable the lockout on an NTSC or PAL SNES, but it's complicated. Still, there's no reason Retrobit couldn't have built in some sort of CIC bypass.

Gahh man its so frustrating when you say dumb things.

A. There is no such thing as a "region free" Super Famiclone. You either have an NTSC clone, or a PAL clone.
B. The PIC microcontroller Retro-Bit uses only bypasses the CIC check SA-1 games do to thwart floppy diskette copy devices of the late 90's. It's not actually a region checker.
C. The SRT like other clones will play PAL SNES games - up unto the 1993 cutoff. PAL games after Super Mario All-Stars won't work on NTSC hardware, and vise versa.
D. Most unlicensed Hong Kong originals (what you call 'bootlegs') are PAL, but they do indeed work on NTSC hardware.
E. Yes, there IS a reason they didn't make a CIC bypass - it can't be done in any existing clone because a clone cannot have both a TX0003812530 and a TX0003812529. Also, once again, PAL support is not important to Retro-Bit or any other clone maker because the region produced very few exclusive games and the PAL market is much, much smaller than the NTSC one.

[Tanooki]

Well if I end up with one which is possible, thinking may wait out E3 if they have an Ouya2 coming a few months later with more power to it and then decide to cash in on an cheaper old one or the new. If I do I'll go digging for the google play ouya app so it can fire up the store. I'm aware that not everything works, but most things will, it just depends on what. I'd bet a few of my touch only games would hate the thing even if the controller has that panel like Galaxy Legend and Out There. I've never looked much into the Ouya controller beyond a mix of the bitching about the kickstarter and the launch controller still having delay input problems screwing up gameplay and everyone howling how the PS3 pad was better.

[Drclaw411]

Shouldn't be long now before mom&pop shops start getting them.

http://hyperkin.com/retro/retron-5.html

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Well if I end up with one which is possible, thinking may wait out E3 if they have an Ouya2 coming a few months later with more power to it and then decide to cash in on an cheaper old one or the new. If I do I'll go digging for the google play ouya app so it can fire up the store. I'm aware that not everything works, but most things will, it just depends on what. I'd bet a few of my touch only games would hate the thing even if the controller has that panel like Galaxy Legend and Out There. I've never looked much into the Ouya controller beyond a mix of the bitching about the kickstarter and the launch controller still having delay input problems screwing up gameplay and everyone howling how the PS3 pad was better.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Wait a few more weeks and let's hear from Ouya at E3. If you do decide to pick up an Ouya, send me an email and I'll help you get google play set up on it.

[stardust4ever]

Gahh man its so frustrating when you say dumb things.

You said so yourself, "All PAL games will not work", in your video. I repeat what you said in your video and you call me "dumb". I assumed this statement also included the pre-1993 games that check the hardware refresh rate / CPU timings and display an error message on NTSC hardware. Now you have changed your story and admit that PAL games released before SMAS will run on the Trio, and the CIC lockout is only activated when an SA-1 chipped game is detected. Make up your dang mind or add annotations to your SNES video to correct this error.

Yes, it would be possible to disable the region lockout with a toggle switch. Mods exist to do this on real hardware so I assume it can be done on clones as well, although it is a bit more complex than the NES region mod (cut pin #4 on the lockout and forget).

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Wrong again. At no point did I say that "All PAL games will not work".

What I actually said:

"Now, the first thing I should note is that this system [the SNES portion] is region locked. It is NTSC, so if you live in a PAL country, you're not going to be able to play the majority of your PAL games. …PAL games simply won't work on this, for the most part."

This cuts off PAL games made from 1993-1999. Prior to that, PAL games will run, although with visual glitches.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Getting back on topic for once, Hyperkin has released one of those dreaded unboxing videos, but turns out we get some pretty cool new info here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mSm7h3wyo

Here's what's new that Hyperkin hasn't revealed before:

-Retron5 controller is pre-charged when shipped.
-RetroN5 controller microswitches are loud, at least as loud as a Neo-Geo CD controller.
-RetroN5 controller has a battery life of 5-6 hours on a full charge. (personally, that sounds really, really low, considering other bluetooth controllers such as the PS3 controller lasts around 40 hours on a full charge! Hyperkin must be using a tiny battery. I'll have to see what would be involved in upgrading it to something with a higher capacity)
-Includes an HDMi cable, USB charge cable for the controller
-AC adapter includes variable heads for all regions - NTSC, UK, Europe
-The system has a boot-up splash screen. Moreover, it doesn't appear to be a super annoying one.
-The power button is a two state switch and not a push button like the NES-001.

[stardust4ever]

Nice writeup Satoshi! (let's put past disagreements behind us, 'kay?)

Some thoughts on the video review; I could hear the clickies as he rotated the digital thumbstick around. That doesn't bother me provided the force required to activate the switches is light enough. The clickiness don't bother me, as I am a fan of microswitch joysticks/buttons. I find the responce more tactile than mushy buttons, since you get instant feedback when the switch is actuated, something not possible with traditional gamepads like NES. And those are good btw. I predict the Hyperkin gamepad will be awesome in my large man hands. The squareness of the original NES pad never bothered me, and it appears the larger and more ergonomic pad will be comfortable... for me. Obviously some will hate it, but those people still have the option to use original game pads.

I'm a little disappointed that the Hyperkin guy did not insert a game, and someone on NA thought it was arrogant of Hyperkin to do their own unboxing, but with all the endless delays, it was necessary to instill confidence in buyers.

Retron5 is done; the final revision is here, and units will begin shipping out shortly.

Between my Super Retro Trio and the Retron5, I've got two of the best clones ever made, and better things are surely to come. Add the upcoming RetroUSB HDMI NES to the mix, and my pentultimate collection of SD and HD clones will be complete... Until someone releases a high definition HDMI N64! Or a highly compatible 2600/7800 clone with an A/V or HD output that doesn't look and sound like total ass...

[Satoshi_Matrix]

http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php

[stardust4ever]

http://retroactive.be/tech_n64_hdmi.php

While I'm sure the retroactive HDMI mod will have nicer than stock video output, it's still just a fancy 480p line doubler. I remember playing Mario 64 in 1600x1200 HD resolution on my circa 1999 PC. It was breathtaking and I could see every brick in Peach's Castle! N64 games can be really beautiful when rendered natively in HD. As it stands, the retroactive HDMI mod is still technically line-doubled 240p at native resolution; as such the display will be inferior even to the native 480p Wii-U Virtual Console. I may still give the HDMI modded N64 a try pending review if it isn't stupid expensive.