Retro Gamer issue 37...top 25 platformers...no Miner 2049er at all

[tom]

As voted for by UK readers. Not actually a bad list of top 25, but omitting Miner 2049er is just a serious crime. Million selling game, one of the first cross-licensed console/computer games. But truthful, not many Brits knew of Miner 2049er, except Matthew Smith's Manic Miner, which he personally said, was a rip-off of Miner 2049er.

Here you go:

25...Castle of Illusion
24...New Zealand Story
23...SMB
22...Tomb Raider
21...Pitfall!
20...Monty on the Run
19...Super Castlevania IV
18...Bruce Lee
17...Super Ghouls & Ghosts
16...Banjo Kazooie
15...Flashback
14...Castlevania Symphony of the Night
13...Sonic
12...Impossible Mission
11...Yoshis Island
10...Rainbow Islands
09...Prince of Persia
08...Chuckie Egg
07...Bubble Bobble
06...Jet Set Willy
05...Sonic 2
04...Super Mario 64
03...Super Mario Bros 3
02...Manic Miner
01...Super Mario World

[FantasiaWHT]

Wow, just the one Sonic game! Kinda sad :( And it's ranked below Rainbow Islands, ouch

[josekortez]

I'm looking forward to that issue, however, it won't hit newsstands here in the States unless next month.

[Kid Ice]

While Miner 2049er would certainly make my top 10, I'm not surprised they left it out. It's often forgotten about for some reason.

Tomb Raider a platformer?

[Snapple]

Wow, they actually included Castle of Illusion. Props for that.

[josekortez]

They let their readers decide, which is why there might be certain games on there that some people wouldn't choose. I remember reading in issue 35 where they said they weren't going to limit the idea of what a "platformer" is to just 2D or 3D, so maybe adventure games counted too.

[Nebagram]

Wow, just the one Sonic game! Kinda sad :( And it's ranked below Rainbow Islands, ouch

Number 2 was also on there in 5th, mate. ;) Bit disappointed that Sonic 3 was left out- it & S&K has always been my favourite of the series- but overall it's a pretty solid list.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I can't really see any reason for more than one 2D Sonic game on a list like this. Sonic Team changed so little in each new game that they're all more or less the same game when it comes down to it. Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble on the 8-bits were the only ones that really broke the mold a bit (and were better for it in my opinion).

It's also an international crime to rank the original Super Mario Bros. at #23 behind pretty much everything else including...Monty On The Run (?) and Bruce Lee (?!).

The list is also kind of short on the great mid-'90s mascot platformers like Ristar and Rocket Knight Adventures. Certainly a Kirby game belongs on any list of great platformers, too.

And while I agree it's nice to see Castle Of Illusion made the list, I think there's even better Disney-based platformers out there, like World Of Illusion or Mickey Mania and also some of the movie licensed ones like Aladdin and the Lion King.

The list kind of seems like a weird mix of obscure computer platformers (which may not have been so obscure in the U.K.) and pack-in and other million-selling console games.


...word is bondage...

[cyberfluxor]

Pretty decent list, don't agree with all the Mario games clustered at the top though.

[Mayhem]

It was a poll taken over a number of UK based retro forums (including the RG forum itself, GamesTM and NTSC-UK)... must admit there were a few surprises and a few non-surprises...

[Melf]

I'm glad to see Castle of Illusion included, but Super Mario World over Mario 3? Mario 3 was leagues better.

[tom]

coming to think of it,
Donkey Kong and Mario Bros should have been included as well.

[Ackman]

WHAT NO DONKEY KONG COUNTRY!? 1 or 2 THIS LIST is blasphemy, feh.

[Kevincal]

I think this list would be in a VASTLY different order if the polls were taken in the U.S... For instance...SMB...23rd?!?!? Are you KIDDING me!? lol Sonic 13th? Everyone knows this and Mario are the greatest platformers of all time and really there is no arguing that...is there? ;) Yoshi's Island most def. should be in the top 5 too... And lastly, Mario 3 and Mario World need to be swapped around! ;) Mario 3 is just such a freaking incredible game.

[Push Upstairs]

I think SMW being listed before "Mario 3" instantly nullifies that list.

[FantasiaWHT]

Why all the strong passion for SM3 > SMW? I've never encountered that before, at least not in such concentrated form. To all of you, what makes 3 better than World?

[tom]

3 was new, exciting, groundbreaking even.
world was just a re-hash of that, even the book Game Over states this.

[Push Upstairs]

What Tom said.

[Mayhem]

I still prefer SMW though...

[diskoboy]

Retro Gamer lost all credibility, to me, when I read their article on the Sega Saturn a month or two ago, and they listed the best games for the system.

They said a bunch of other craptacular Saturn games were better than Panzer Dragoon Saga.

PDS was waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list.

Now back to the topic at hand: Donkey Kong, Metroid, Rayman 1 or 2, Zillion 1, or Jet Set/Grind Radio aren't on that list?? BAH!!!

Partial credit for putting Impossible Mission so high on the list. But I don't think it's better than SotN.

[fishsandwich]

Anyone know when this one will be available at B&N in the States?

[Keir]

As voted for by UK readers. Not actually a bad list of top 25, but omitting Miner 2049er is just a serious crime.Agreed, and I'll also add Jumpman and Lode Runner.

And why Pitfall but not Pitfall II?

Cool to see Bruce Lee on that list though.

[tom]

Agreed, and I'll also add Jumpman and Lode Runner.

And why Pitfall but not Pitfall II?

Cool to see Bruce Lee on that list though.

Lode Runner (C64/Apple][/A800), of course, another classic that should have been added.

[Push Upstairs]

Retro Gamer lost all credibility, to me, when I read their article on the Sega Saturn a month or two ago, and they listed the best games for the system.

They said a bunch of other craptacular Saturn games were better than Panzer Dragoon Saga.

PDS was waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list.


May I ask what "gold" they listed before that game?

[Nebagram]

The top 10 from RG issue 34 (which, as always, is in no particular order)- NiGHTS, Saturn Bomberman, Guardian Heroes, Shining Force 3, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop, radiant Silvergun, Street Fighter Zero 3. be fair now, something had to give (though I agree it shouldn't have been PDS)...

[diskoboy]

May I ask what "gold" they listed before that game?


I didn't buy the issue. If anyone has it, please post it. It was a list of like 100 games. The spread was several pages. I wanna say the first Rayman was before PDS*. I even think one of the original Panzers was before PDS.

(*Rayman is a great game, but it's by no means better than Saga)

I'm in the US, and read it about a month or two ago. I don't know if we get issues later than the UK, or not. Not to mention, it's 15 friggin dollars for a magazine. A bit too expensive for me.

[Push Upstairs]

Yeah $15 is a tad steep....

plus our inferior American minds cannot grasp everything contained in that tome.

[Nebagram]

I didn't buy the issue. If anyone has it, please post it. It was a list of like 100 games. The spread was several pages. I wanna say the first Rayman was before PDS*. I even think one of the original Panzers was before PDS.

(*Rayman is a great game, but it's by no means better than Saga)

I'm in the US, and read it about a month or two ago. I don't know if we get issues later than the UK, or not. Not to mention, it's 15 friggin dollars for a magazine. A bit too expensive for me.

http://www.nebagram.co.uk/images/saturn.jpg (very 56k and table unfriendly so linked) doesn't look like it's in any particular order to me...

[Ackman]

Retro Gamer lost all credibility, to me, when I read their article on the Sega Saturn a month or two ago, and they listed the best games for the system.

They said a bunch of other craptacular Saturn games were better than Panzer Dragoon Saga.

PDS was waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list.

Now back to the topic at hand: Donkey Kong, Metroid, Rayman 1 or 2, Zillion 1, or Jet Set/Grind Radio aren't on that list?? BAH!!!

Partial credit for putting Impossible Mission so high on the list. But I don't think it's better than SotN.


Definately DKC 2 somewhere and what about skull monkeys? I always thought that fat plumber was overrated, smb and smb3 were good but....

SMW and Yoshi Story nah.....

[diskoboy]

Street Fighter: The Movie is #35. PDS is #36. :shudders:

I hope to god it's not in no particular order.

That was it, thanks for posting that nebagram.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Why all the strong passion for SM3 > SMW? I've never encountered that before, at least not in such concentrated form. To all of you, what makes 3 better than World?
I think it's a facet of the immense popularity of the NES right now among collectors. That system just seems to be getting more and more popular every day...it's just like 1989 all over again. In five years, though, most people will be saying just the opposite because by then everyone will be into the 16-bits and then five years after that it'll be the Playstation.


...word is bondage...

[Push Upstairs]

SMW is built upon a lot of ideas that were implemented in some way in SMB3.

Ability to fly? Check
Overworld map? Check
Beat up Koopa kids? Check

Aside from, Yoshi, multiple exits, able to return to a level, the simplified power-up system, the spin jump (which I would argue is a variation of the raccoon tail spin attack), and some tweaks to how Mario swims and jumps....you have essentially Super Mario 3 but without all the cool power-ups.

Yoshi was a concept that was thought up long before SMW, but the rest of those "ideas" are more SMB3-evolutionary than all the ideas that went into making SMB3 a huge revolutionary jump over SMB.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

SMW is built upon a lot of ideas that were implemented in some way in SMB3.

Ability to fly? Check
Overworld map? Check
Beat up Koopa kids? Check

Aside from, Yoshi, multiple exits, able to return to a level, the simplified power-up system, the spin jump (which I would argue is a variation of the raccoon tail spin attack), and some tweaks to how Mario swims and jumps....you have essentially Super Mario 3 but without all the cool power-ups.

Yoshi was a concept that was thought up long before SMW, but the rest of those "ideas" are more SMB3-evolutionary than all the ideas that went into making SMB3 a huge revolutionary jump over SMB.
You're right, but none of that has anything to do with which game is actually better. In my opinion, Super Mario World is far more polished, cohesive and compelling over the long run than Super Mario Bros. 3 and those are the things that make a game better, I think. I don't think either of them are as good as the original Super Mario Bros., though.


...word is bondage...

[Nature Boy]

I think this list would be in a VASTLY different order if the polls were taken in the U.S

That really should go without saying. To be honest I don't think you'd see nearly as many 8-bit computer games on a US list.

They do love their Willy though, don't they? Jet Set that is :)

Miner 2049'er was defnitely an absolute classic that should be considered for a list like this. And I'm personally happy with Bruce Lee up there - both are games I still play when I fire up the ole 8-bit Atari.

What I enjoy the most about a list like this is it's regionality though. It gives you some insight into which systems were popular there that weren't over here, like their Speccy :)

[Mayhem]

Street Fighter: The Movie is #35. PDS is #36. :shudders:

I hope to god it's not in no particular order.

That was it, thanks for posting that nebagram.

That splash of games is indeed in no particular order, or any particular quality. It's just a representation of the games available for each platform, old or new, good or bad.

[Push Upstairs]

I don't think either of them are as good as the original Super Mario Bros., though.


SMB might have been first, but I'll never find it to be better.

The control is way too stiff.

[djsquarewave]

The control is way too stiff.
I lack the ability to comprehend this statement in a meaningful way. SMB is one of the most fluidly-controlling games ever designed. Most 2D platformers made even today control nowhere near as well.

Mario 3 always felt more lively than SMW to me. Maybe it's an artifact of me not owning an SNES until five years or so ago, but...polish or not, there's just something "off" about SMW. But then, I also think Sonic 2 is a bit crap whereas Sonic 3 is the greatest platformer ever made.

Glad to see no DKC on that list -- those games are amazingly overrated.

[Zap!]

As voted for by UK readers. Not actually a bad list of top 25, but omitting Miner 2049er is just a serious crime. Million selling game, one of the first cross-licensed console/computer games. But truthful, not many Brits knew of Miner 2049er, except Matthew Smith's Manic Miner, which he personally said, was a rip-off of Miner 2049er.

Here you go:

25...Castle of Illusion
24...New Zealand Story
23...SMB
22...Tomb Raider
21...Pitfall!
20...Monty on the Run
19...Super Castlevania IV
18...Bruce Lee
17...Super Ghouls & Ghosts
16...Banjo Kazooie
15...Flashback
14...Castlevania Symphony of the Night
13...Sonic
12...Impossible Mission
11...Yoshis Island
10...Rainbow Islands
09...Prince of Persia
08...Chuckie Egg
07...Bubble Bobble
06...Jet Set Willy
05...Sonic 2
04...Super Mario 64
03...Super Mario Bros 3
02...Manic Miner
01...Super Mario World

I'm bothered more that the original SMB is only 23. And I put Alex Kidd in Miracle World ahead of all those games, and it's not even on that list.

[Zap!]

I'm glad to see Castle of Illusion included, but Super Mario World over Mario 3? Mario 3 was leagues better.

I put World ahead of 3. The save feature helped put it over the top.

[Zap!]

3 was new, exciting, groundbreaking even.
world was just a re-hash of that, even the book Game Over states this.

World was also the first 16-bit Mario, and first with a save, and introduced Yoshi. That still a re-hash to you? To be, SMW was far more fun too. I couldn't stop playing it in '91. Then again, SM3 came out when I already had the TG-16 and Genesis, and 8-bit games (no matter how good) were starting to bore me at the time.

[Zap!]

Aside from, Yoshi, multiple exits, able to return to a level, the simplified power-up system, the spin jump (which I would argue is a variation of the raccoon tail spin attack), and some tweaks to how Mario swims and jumps....

That's an awful lot to put aside if you ask me.


Yoshi was a concept that was thought up long before SMW...

Really, that I didn't know. When was Yoshi thought up?

[Push Upstairs]

Its enough to put aside considering it wasn't hard for even a 10 yr old gamer to come up with these ideas. Minus Yoshi and the stupidly simplified power-up system.

Speaking of Yoshi:

As is stated in the Nintendo book/guide "Mario Mania" the riding a dinosaur/lizard "Yoshi" concept was first conceived for the original SMB but was dropped due to memory limitation...or something like that.

If this is true or BS I don't know.


I lack the ability to comprehend this statement in a meaningful way. SMB is one of the most fluidly-controlling games ever designed. Most 2D platformers made even today control nowhere near as well.

If others can claim that SMW is better because of some minor refinements over 3, then I sure can say I enjoy the more refined and smoother controls 3 offers over SMB.

[Ackman]

Glad to see no DKC on that list -- those games are amazingly overrated.

Yeah, your mom was amazingly overrated.

[djsquarewave]

If others can claim that SMW is better because of some minor refinements over 3, then I sure can say I enjoy the more refined and smoother controls 3 offers over SMB.
You sure can! Just as I can disagree and think that SMB plays just as smoothly.


Yeah, your mom was amazingly overrated.
How relevant.

I'll admit DKC had some great music, though!

[Ackman]

How relevant.

I'll admit DKC had some great music, though!

Well you don't have to because the reviews of DKC were mostly 90% scores and a lot of people put DKC2 in their top 10 lists, It's awesome and it aged very well.

[Lost Dream]

Retro Gamer lost all credibility, to me, when I read their article on the Sega Saturn a month or two ago, and they listed the best games for the system.

They said a bunch of other craptacular Saturn games were better than Panzer Dragoon Saga.

PDS was waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on the list.

Now back to the topic at hand: Donkey Kong, Metroid, Rayman 1 or 2, Zillion 1, or Jet Set/Grind Radio aren't on that list?? BAH!!!

Partial credit for putting Impossible Mission so high on the list. But I don't think it's better than SotN.We didn't cover Panzer Draggon Saga because it had four pages in the same issue... In fact, I#m pretty sure that was mentioned in the actual text as to why it wasn't included.

As for the list. Well it's voted for by the readers. The next one will probably be done internally...

[djsquarewave]

Well you don't have to because the reviews of DKC were mostly 90% scores and a lot of people put DKC2 in their top 10 lists, It's awesome and it aged very well.
I didn't like it much back in the day, and I still don't like it much. I think it's ass ugly with those low-color prerendered sprites, and the collossions and physics are way too slippery. And being a Rare platformer there's way too much to collect.

Just because it's highly rated doesn't meant I've got to like it. There's no need to try to convince me that I should like it.

[Ackman]

I didn't like it much back in the day, and I still don't like it much. I think it's ass ugly with those low-color prerendered sprites, and the collossions and physics are way too slippery. And being a Rare platformer there's way too much to collect.

Just because it's highly rated doesn't meant I've got to like it. There's no need to try to convince me that I should like it.

You don't have to like it lots of other people do, so no need to badmouth it as much as you have just sit in the back of the bus with rest of the old folks and slow kids.

Actually you don't have to collect everything, nothing in the game forces you to do that, I find it best when I just play the levels again at my leisure.

[Nature Boy]

As for the list. Well it's voted for by the readers. The next one will probably be done internally...

Which hardly matters. No list is really any better than any other list. Just different.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

I didn't like it much back in the day, and I still don't like it much. I think it's ass ugly with those low-color prerendered sprites, and the collossions and physics are way too slippery. And being a Rare platformer there's way too much to collect.

Just because it's highly rated doesn't meant I've got to like it. There's no need to try to convince me that I should like it.
I think that if the Donkey Kong Country games had come out on the Genesis, they wouldn't have been popular at all.

I don't want to turn this discussion into a flame war from 15 years ago because really I love both systems (I'd even give the dge to the SNES if I had to decide), but the SNES was really lacking in hop'n'bop style platformers compared to the Genesis. I mean, obviously the Mario games (including Yoshi's Island) were great and Kirby, too, but those and Donkey Kong Country were really all the SNES had while the Genesis had Sonic, Ristar, Rocket Knight Adventures, Sparkster, half a dozen A+ Disney platformers and so on. Compared to any of those, DKC really lacks, but they filled a hole in the SNES library and also looked very good so they got attention and plus Nintendo pushed them really really hard going up against the 32-bit systems. I think those things account for Donkey Kong Country's popularity rather than the games themselves.


...word is bondage...

[Flack]

Agreed, and I'll also add Jumpman and Lode Runner.

I just read the list and these two omissions popped out at me, along with Impossible Mission.

(Duh, I just reread the list -- there's Impossible Mission, right there.)

The 2D platformer is my favorite genre of all time, hands down. I think the list is pretty good, overall. There are lots of other ones I liked (Toy Bizarre, Dark Castle, Wizard/Ultimate Wizard, etc) but those were all a bit more obscure than the ones that made the list.

[tom]

if you wanna look further, another classic is 'The Castles of Dr Creep', which inspired 'Prince of Persia'

[josekortez]

Just for the record, when Retrogamer lists an assortment of games available for a certain retro system (i.e. the Saturn, or Wonderswan which they did in the retro-spective that was in the last issue that came out in the States), the games listed are not necessary the best games for the system, but what is available for the system. It's supposed to be helpful to people who aren't familiar with the games for the system.

[megamaniaman]

Once again it seems the Atari 2600 gets no love from people. How on earth is Pitfall 21st? Did people forget that this was the first platform game ever made? Other cool Atari 2600 platform games that got ignored. Pitfall II, H.E.R.O, and Montezuma's Revenge.

[tom]

the VCS didn't have a long successful period in the UK, once the 16k/48k Spectrum hit the market, and kids could buy games on tape for GBP 1.99, GBP 2,99, instead of GBP 29.99 (VCS prices), cartridge based consoles became obsolete, only to recover in 1989 with the Sega Master System.

Nevertheless, the VCS was supported until 1992 from companies like Atari (UK), Palan, Activision, Salu, HES.

[Gradius]

Donkey Kong Country would be an excellent addition to that list, not to mention Kirby's Adventure. Both are excellent platformers with fluid controls and great gameplay that can keep someone hooked for a long period of time. I also agree that Miner 2049'er should be on there, as well as Montezuma's Revenge...

[diskoboy]

Donkey Kong Country would be an excellent addition to that list, not to mention Kirby's Adventure. Both are excellent platformers with fluid controls and great gameplay that can keep someone hooked for a long period of time. I also agree that Miner 2049'er should be on there, as well as Montezuma's Revenge...


Yes! Montezuma's Revenge was a really great platformer. Like Pitfall, but a little better.

And I'm sure I'm the only person who thinks Pick Axe Pete! Belongs on this list, too.

[Nebagram]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/top10/1139.html

By happy coincidence look what today's top 10 on gamefaqs is. This one has a lot to commend it IMO, though the #1 is a bit of a cheat.

[Mayhem]

Once again it seems the Atari 2600 gets no love from people. How on earth is Pitfall 21st? Did people forget that this was the first platform game ever made? Other cool Atari 2600 platform games that got ignored. Pitfall II, H.E.R.O, and Montezuma's Revenge.

First platformer? Erm what were Space Panic and Donkey Kong then before it? :P

[Keir]

Once again it seems the Atari 2600 gets no love from people. How on earth is Pitfall 21st? Did people forget that this was the first platform game ever made? Other cool Atari 2600 platform games that got ignored. Pitfall II, H.E.R.O, and Montezuma's Revenge.Do you think H.E.R.O. can be classified as a platform game? I don't know exactly what genre I would put it in, but it’s missing a lot of main characteristics of a platform game (such as ladders and the ability to jump).

[diskoboy]

Do you think H.E.R.O. can be classified as a platform game? I don't know exactly what genre I would put it in, but it’s missing a lot of main characteristics of a platform game (such as ladders and the ability to jump).

Yes.

H.E.R.O is most definitely a platformer.