Do Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, and Metal Gear matter any more?

[Kid Ice]

What I keep hearing in defense of the PS3 is "ooh wait until the next MGS! Wait until the new Gran Turismo! Final Fantasy exclusivity baby!"

Here's my take on all three franchises:

Metal Gear: MGS 1 and 2 were huge. MGS 3, although a big seller, didn't seem to be an "event" game...it just sort of came and went. Then they started on the PSP with this card game crap. What the hell was that? Then a Gamecube remake of the first game, then some other PSP game...who cares anymore?

Gran Turismo: GT4 was too little (way too little with no online component) and too late (as usual). Microsoft basically stole the GT franchise with Forza and there's not much Sony can do about it. GT5 is a non event.

Final Fantasy: Reached its apex ten years ago. Failed to sell PS2's hard drive. FAILED. Now its supposed to sell PS3s?

[Hwj_Chim]

I think that the gaming world would be a better place if these franchises took a break for a while. In fact most franchises are worn out and need a break.

[BocoDragon]

I think those titles are popular with fanboys... they are still the reason many hardcore gamers are excited about the coming gen.

But are they killer apps that will move significant systems amongst the general populace? Not really. So yeah, your thesis is generally correct.

Every game helps though... and I think this very thread points to the console war being won by diverse software in general..... It seems like NO killer app matters any more.....


Final Fantasy: Reached its apex ten years ago. Failed to sell PS2's hard drive. FAILED. Now its supposed to sell PS3s?
I wouldn't say FFXI failed to sell the Hdd, so much as SONY failed to sell the Hdd....

The original plan was for FFXI to support Sony's "standard" hdd, but when Sony dropped their Hdd ambitions, it was forced into a FFXI/hdd pack that no one really expected to sell well, just so the game could finally come out at all......

On top of that, as an online game, it was expected to be a much, much lesser selling title than other FFs. It wasn't a killer app in the sense of most FFs.....

[PallarAndersVisa]

FF? no
turismo? no
Metal Gear? yes. god yes. The reason is, final fantasy has lost its luster. Sure, it will always sell, but it is no longer the most important RPG, or the ONLY RPG series around that matters. Gran Turismo's shit has been matched, especially seeing how hyped Forza 2 is becoming. The need for speed series is also selling really really well.

MEtal Gear Solid games are still very few and far between. Only three games so far in three generations (soon to be 4). They are not milking this thing for all its worth really, and thats good. The stories are always AAA quality and the games never let up. MGS will probably carry the ps3 on its back for a while untill Sony can muster up God of War 3.

[petewhitley]

Final Fantasy is still HUGE, especially over here in Japan. The PS3 would ultimately be a moderate success if the ONLY exclusive it had were Final Fantasy. That franchise in particular is still, arguably, the most important in gaming. Depending on what market we're talking about.

[theoakwoody]

While I agree most franshises are "played out" there are still several that can be a system seller. The 3 specific examples that kid ice noted are good examples of franchises that need a shot in the arm. These franchises used to be the movers and the shakers but have not followed that same model as of late. Metal Gear has tried to stay fresh and cutting edge but there's so many other quality imitators that Konami really needs to step up with MGS 4. If these franchises can continue to keep their perspective genres new and fresh I think they can matter.

[Aussie2B]

Metal Gear Solid still absolutely matters. MGS4 WILL sell systems, I guarantee that. Maybe MGS3 came and went for you, but from everything I've seen, it was the biggest MGS yet and a monumental game to everyone I know. I still see just about everybody talking about it and playing it on a fairly regular basis. Just a couple weeks ago I was in a computer lab at my school, talking to my boyfriend over AIM and he started talking about the game, and then at the exact same time I overheard some guys in the back of the room talking about the game. Very big coincidence or a very big game? You tell me. I think MGS2 would be a much better choice for a game that came and went. MGS3 was revolutionary and took the series in a much appreciated direction, just as Resident Evil 4 did that same year, and to many people I come across, that time period will be remembered as one of the most impressive in gaming's history (and this is from jaded gamers that have seen it all and aren't the type to be all "Best year ever for games!" every single year).

Gran Turismo, on the other hand, has run its course I think, and it seems to barely stir up more excitement than Ridge Racer these days and that's not a good thing. Too many other racing games have stolen its spotlight.

As for Final Fantasy, I don't think it EVER really mattered, and I mean that in the most kind way possible. If we're talking Japan, then, yeah, it's huge, but in the US? Sure, most RPG fans will buy it, but what percentage of the US consumer base really gives a damn about RPGs? The internet gives off a skewed view of gamers since RPG players tend to be more vocal. Casual gamers don't care to get online and talk about games as much, nor do they need to look up guides and ask questions. They don't need to discuss plots or talk about how much they love/hate any given character. They just play God of War and Madden and be done with it. Final Fantasy wasn't anything but niche before Final Fantasy VII, and even with that title, it's a joke to think it saved the PlayStation or made it what it was. The PlayStation was a massive success because of mainstream stuff like Tomb Raider, Tekken, Twisted Metal, and Crash Bandicoot. Final Fantasy VII helped and opened the doors for more PS1 RPGs, but outside the realm of RPG players, it was nothing. Of course, it created a fair number of new RPG fans, but that's a different story. In the end, yeah, it'll sell PS3s to RPG fans, but it won't be enough to save the PS3 from the state its in now.

[Snapple]

I think those titles are popular with fanboys... they are still the reason many hardcore gamers are excited about the coming gen.

But are they killer apps that will move significant systems amongst the general populace? Not really. So yeah, your thesis is generally correct.


I wouldn't say FFXI failed to sell the Hdd, so much as SONY failed to sell the Hdd....

The original plan was for FFXI to support Sony's "standard" hdd, but when Sony dropped their Hdd ambitions, it was forced into a FFXI/hdd pack that no one really expected to sell well, just so the game could finally come out at all......

On top of that, as an online game, it was expected to be a much, much lesser selling title than other FFs. It wasn't a killer app in the sense of most FFs.....

FFXI has generated a ton of money, thanks not only to sales but due to monthly fees. It's not a failure, I enjoyed it, and I don't really care for anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time playing it judging it. It's not WoW, but considering how about 90% of MMORPGs fail miserably and have to be shut down, it's done very well.

Now, that being said, FFXI for the PS2 cost about $150 or something like that at release, thanks to the HDD. Not only was it expensive, but it wasn't a PS2 exclusive. You could buy it for PC for a small fraction of the cost, and the HD didn't support any other games like it was supposed to.

Now, we can look at the relative failure of the HDD and form two conclusions. Either people are smart and don't want to pay the extra hundred bucks for the same game (we will call this the no-brainer conclusion), or we can conclude that the most successful RPG franchise of all time is dieing (we will call this the stupid conclusion).

Now, Final Fantasy XII. It sold 2 million copies in Japan alone, in its first week alone. It sold 1.5 million copies in the US before Christmas. It's still the best-selling single player RPG. It's one of the only games to ever get a perfect score from Famitsu. It won PS2 game of the year from both Gamespot and IGN.

On GameFAQs, the top four most clicked on PS1 games this year, and every year, are Final Fantasy games. The top clicked on PS2 game is Final Fantasy XII. The most-popular unreleased game for PS3 is Final Fantasy XIII.

And you think Final Fantasy doesn't matter anymore. Because some people didn't want to spend over $100 for a useless add-on for their PS2, that means people don't want to buy FF games anymore? How can you call the best selling single-player RPG franchise unpopular when they are still the best selling single-player RPG?

People won't buy a PS3 just for FFXIII? Maybe they would if the PS3 cost as much as the PS1 did when FF7 came out. Your argument is just... nothing. It makes no sense at all. Just because YOU don't pay attention to FF anymore doesn't mean it's not still insanely popular.

[Kevincal]

GT4 has so much game content it's insane...Plus the physics are insanely realistic, especially with the Logitech wheel. I really don't see Forza comparing...

[Richter Belmount]

I think the few key franchises back then are now outweighed by the franchises of the future.

[Lothars]

What I keep hearing in defense of the PS3 is "ooh wait until the next MGS! Wait until the new Gran Turismo! Final Fantasy exclusivity baby!"

Here's my take on all three franchises:

Metal Gear: MGS 1 and 2 were huge. MGS 3, although a big seller, didn't seem to be an "event" game...it just sort of came and went. Then they started on the PSP with this card game crap. What the hell was that? Then a Gamecube remake of the first game, then some other PSP game...who cares anymore?

Gran Turismo: GT4 was too little (way too little with no online component) and too late (as usual). Microsoft basically stole the GT franchise with Forza and there's not much Sony can do about it. GT5 is a non event.

Final Fantasy: Reached its apex ten years ago. Failed to sell PS2's hard drive. FAILED. Now its supposed to sell PS3s?

Absolutely MGS series is amazing as well as Final Fantasy is still as good as any other RPG series, just look at FFXII it was an amazing game in the franchise, but I do agree with Snapple that FF is still insanely popular

[j_factor]

The successors to last-gen's system sellers aren't guaranteed to be system sellers in the new gen. I remember people predicting that Super Mario Sunshine would sell Gamecubes, and while it sold quite well, it didn't really do that much for the system. Same thing could happen to MGS4.

[Anthony1]

Well, looking at these 3 games, one of them is definitely not coming to any other system. That's Gran Turismo. Of course, of the 3 games, I would say that GT has the least value of the 3 in terms of being a system selling type game. Before Forza existed, GT was really the only game in town. Forza has been a really good imitator, so people that love that type of game have another option. Still, GT is a valuable exclusive for Sony.

Final Fantasy and Metal Gear are much more important, but are 3rd party. They've been loyal to the Playstation brand over the last two generations. Of course, during the last two generations, Sony was dominating the industry and it made sense for exclusivity and timed exclusivity. Now, you really gotta wonder. Both of those franchises don't sell as many units in Japan as you would think. They actually are bigger deals here in America. In the USA, the PS3 is selling horribly. Only 82K units in April. That's downright embarassing. I'm sure that FFXIII and MGS4 were planned to be exclusive to PS3, but I just can't see that holding true for much longer. Neither game will get released in 2007, and as the months go by, it becomes more and more obvious that they need a 360 version to try to break even on development. The only question now, is when these games finally are released in 2008, will they be day and date releases on both the 360 and PS3, or will the PS3 have them as timed exclusives? Also, how long will the timed exclusivity be? 90 days? 6 months? Will Sony pay Konami and SquareEnix money to keep quite about the 360 versions as long as possible?

It will be very interesting to see how all this plays out.

[Kid Ice]

And you think Final Fantasy doesn't matter anymore. Because some people didn't want to spend over $100 for a useless add-on for their PS2, that means people don't want to buy FF games anymore? How can you call the best selling single-player RPG franchise unpopular when they are still the best selling single-player RPG?

People won't buy a PS3 just for FFXIII? Maybe they would if the PS3 cost as much as the PS1 did when FF7 came out. Your argument is just... nothing. It makes no sense at all. Just because YOU don't pay attention to FF anymore doesn't mean it's not still insanely popular.

I'm not saying FF doesn't matter AT ALL. I'm saying it is not as important as it once was in terms of system selling power (like FF7 had). Since people would not pay for a $100 add on to play the PS2 game, I doubt that people are going to go out and pay six times as much for a PS3.

As for MGS and GT, of course they matter in the sense that they're big sellers and good games....but I doubt they matter as system exclusives to the degree that Halo or Super Mario will.

[jajaja]

I think those titles are popular with fanboys... they are still the reason many hardcore gamers are excited about the coming gen.

GT4 sold over a million copies the first week in Japan alone. Alot of fanboys out there then :P



Since people would not pay for a $100 add on to play the PS2 game, I doubt that people are going to go out and pay six times as much for a PS3.

PS3 wont cost $599 forever. FFXI was also a different kind of FF, its a MMORPG if i'm not mistaken. FF13 is maybe out for x-mas, MGS 4 is most likely not to make it this year. Question is how fast the price will go down.

[Lothars]

GT4 sold over a million copies the first week in Japan alone. Alot of fanboys out there then :P




PS3 wont cost $599 forever. FFXI was also a different kind of FF, its a MMORPG if i'm not mistaken. FF13 is maybe out for x-mas, MGS 4 is most likely not to make it this year. Question is how fast the price will go down.

That's a big question to, Price is a major factor and I think one that needs to change ASAP

[jdc]

Funny you should mention. I've been playing my PSX pretty much on a daily basis lately...and these 3 franchises in particular. Whether the earliest or the latest in the series, a great game is still a great game.

[gepeto]

At one point final fantasy seem to have everything timing, special titles and classic old ones but there has been a pimping of the series that i believed tarnished the image. Way to many remakes too many crossovers. It really killed the brand. Sorta like castlevania.

I loved the direction of twelve but the should have keep it like the dragon warrior series and kept it an event with limited releases.

Gran turismo I am not a fan of but people love that series. For me the game is too realistic and a pain to run but for the life of me I don't get it.

Here is the funny thing if you would have asked me prior to the release of the first gran turismo if it would sell. I would have said nice game but not blockbuster status. People won't like the difficulty. I would have bet the farm on that one. Who Knew:)

Metal gear is still an event but I think it needs an resident evil 4 type of retooling. I believe consumers have overdosed on stealth genre in general.
I still haven't figured out the acid games but the portable ops was awesome.

FYi trade in value for metal gear acid 2 $1.50

[AMG]

I believe all three franchises are relevant in today's market. Each one has a huge fan base all chomping at the bit for the next entry into the series.

[badinsults]

I believe that all those games matter and will sell systems. The problem is that other than Gran Turismo, there are no obligations to keep them locked to the PS3. SquareEnix has said as much about Final Fantasy, and though the main "FF13" game might be PS3 exclusive, the plenthora of spinoffs will find their way on other consoles. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to have no particular game that is just FF13. Extreme demand might put Metal Gear Solid on the Xbox.

[Kitsune Sniper]

The real reason why FFXII failed is that Sony decided to absolutely KILL hard drive support in places other than Japan just so they could release their slim PS2 systems.

In Japan, Original-style PS2s are still sold. The hard drive is still sold. Because they didn't give up on it right away.

[Chaz From Phantasy Star 2]

Hmm let me think... does the best rpg series ever matter? YES!!!!

[WanganRunner]

I still don't think that Forza has reached the level of awesomeness occupied by Gran Turismo.

Final Fantasy definitely still matters, but it will eventually go fully multiplatform.

MGS4 will be HUGE, IMO.

And this is coming from someone who still thinks the PS3 is largely doomed, but the three franchises above are still nowhere near irrelevant.

[Griking]

I stopped playing and caring about Final Fantasy games when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.

Seems to me that Final Fantasy games cater to the same crowd as American Idol does and that doesn't include me.

[Chaz From Phantasy Star 2]

I stopped playing and caring about Final Fantasy games when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.

Do you even mean Barret?!

[djsquarewave]

Hmm let me think... does the best rpg series ever matter? YES!!!!
I find something strangely ironic about this post.

Forza is infinitely more accessable than Gran Turismo is nowadays to people who aren't total car nuts. I've tried to get into both GT3 and GT4 in the last year and never made it past the license tests, but I've got probably dozens of hours logged on Forza and I don't even own the game. Of course, I'm not a car nut, so maybe I just can't appreaciate all the elaborate physics simulation in using another car to ricochet around a corner. ;)

Final Fantasy is a game that will be played by the sort of people who play Final Fantasy, which is 50% of the Japanese population and 95% of the GameFAQs community. They'll buy it on whatever system it's on, even if it's the only game on that system they're going to buy (other than Dragon Quest). Average American Gamer probably couldn't care less, though.

Metal Gear is what Average American Gamer will buy, though. It's got lots of action and shooting stuff. There's a vaguely incomprehensible story about nuclear bipedal tanks and global conspiracies and clones getting too old for this crap that lets people shout "games are art!" but it's mostly action and shooting stuff. If it's a PS3 exclusive I presume most of the people looking for this sort of thing will just get another Tom Clancy game for their 360 instead.

[damerush]

i know this is slightly off topic but Sony really needed to keep the GTA franchise exclusive, that series of games sold many many playstation 2 units. It`s a shame they couldnt really even secure an early release for GTA4. You can`t blame rockstar for cashing in on its most profitable commodity, but Sony will feel it in the wallet. Tbh the GTA games on the xbox didnt feel right to me.

[boatofcar]

I'm not saying FF doesn't matter AT ALL. I'm saying it is not as important as it once was in terms of system selling power (like FF7 had).

FF7 was the only FF game to sell systems. In its previous and more recent incarnations, the consoles already had an existing fanbase. No other FF game had people run out to buy the system just to play it like FF7 did. Maybe MGS2 and GT sold some systems, but FF7 is one of the few games that really did make the system.

[WanganRunner]

Forza is infinitely more accessable than Gran Turismo is nowadays to people who aren't total car nuts..

This is why GT needs to never, ever go away. Sims are for us nuts, let everyone else play "Cruisin' USA".

I realize this makes no sense whatsoever from a marketing standpoint, but I'd just hate to see GT go anywhere. It seems to be the ONLY driving game ever really created by car nuts.

I enjoy the license tests, actually.

When Forza gets cars like 1958 Prince Skyline Sports, then I'll care. Until then, not so much.

[petewhitley]

Final Fantasy ... don't sell as many units in Japan as you would think. They actually are bigger deals here in America.

I think all that warm chocolate pudding has gone to your head man.

[Oobgarm]

I think that all of those franchises still matter. Perhaps they aren't quite as prolific as they were in years past, but they will still move systems.

The main reason why these series aren't as huge as they were in the past is because there is just too much stuff out there. The gamer has a wide selection of titles to choose from, with some coming close to being comparable in quality; especially since those above mentioned franchises have wallowed in their own success for too long, and others have taken advantage of that. There will always be a market for those games, but the hype, as it was once known, is gone-thanks to the widening of the market.

If those franchises can re-focus, they'll make a larger impact. Stop giving them numerical suffixes, for a start.

[Rob2600]

GT4 has so much game content it's insane...Plus the physics are insanely realistic, especially with the Logitech wheel.

Yes, the Gran Turismo series is the most intense and realistic video game racing series ever created...except the cars don't get damaged...and the collision physics are cartoony...and there are only a few cars on the screen at the same time... :)

[j_factor]

Yeah, I've never understood why people called Gran Turismo "realistic". Realistic bumper car sim, maybe. Regular cars don't bounce off walls.

[jajaja]

Many things that can define realistic. When i first played GT4 (on a 480i TV) my dad said that it looked so real.

[Buyatari]

I stopped playing and caring about Final Fantasy games when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.

Seems to me that Final Fantasy games cater to the same crowd as American Idol does and that doesn't include me.


You think thats bad try Enchanted Arms on the 360.

[Lothars]

Metal Gear is what Average American Gamer will buy, though. It's got lots of action and shooting stuff. There's a vaguely incomprehensible story about nuclear bipedal tanks and global conspiracies and clones getting too old for this crap that lets people shout "games are art!" but it's mostly action and shooting stuff. If it's a PS3 exclusive I presume most of the people looking for this sort of thing will just get another Tom Clancy game for their 360 instead.


The story is what helps MGS, it has such an amazing story, I don't care if your completely clueless about the story just don't say it's not about the story because you have no idea what your talking about. MGS story is what keeps me coming back to those games.

They are just great games altogether.

[Lothars]

Seems to me that Final Fantasy games cater to the same crowd as American Idol does and that doesn't include me.



Not at all, I don't even know where you get that from because it's really two totally different things. you can think what you want but it doesn't cater to anything related to crap like American Idol.

[djsquarewave]

The story is what helps MGS, it has such an amazing story, I don't care if your completely clueless about the story just don't say it's not about the story because you have no idea what your talking about. MGS story is what keeps me coming back to those games.

They are just great games altogether.
They are great games, but the reason I like their stories is because they're complete pseudointellectual bullshit and they make no excuses about being exactly that. Completely over the top, while still maintaining a straight face.

I mean, you can't really expect anyone to take a game where the President of the United States grabs the protagonist in the crotch because he's not sure if it's a man or a woman seriously.

[Sosage]

Here's some handy information ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games) for your on going mental battle to define irrelevance.

I'm not gonna dig very hard for numbers from a better source right this second (like NPD), so this Wikipedia list of the top selling games for each console is gonna have to entertain us. Some of these numbers seem based off of specific regions only, while others could be a total of worldwide sales (and then others could just be fudged by other obvious factors). Anyways, here we go:

Some of the last “Major” releases of said franchises:

MGS3 = 3.7 million
FF12 = 3.6 million worldwide, 1 million outside Japan
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec = 11 million (4 didn't even make this list...hrm)

Some obviously high selling franchises to compare to:

GTA:Vice City (PS2): 13 million
GTA: San Andreas (PS2): 12 million
MGS2 (PS2): 7 million
Gran Turismo (PS1): 10 million
FF7 (PS1): 9.8 million
MGS (PS1): 6.6 million
SMB (NES): 40.23 million

All ten of these games were sitting pretty high on their collective lists. Again, take Wikipedia stuff with a grain of salt.



There's a vaguely incomprehensible story about nuclear bipedal tanks and global conspiracies and clones getting too old for this crap that lets people shout "games are art!" but it's mostly action and shooting stuff.

I hope you're not implying that game play design is not art. I know an entire industry of creative folks that will probably disagree with you. ;)

[Kid Ice]

Some of the last “Major” releases of said franchises:

MGS3 = 3.7 million
FF12 = 3.6 million worldwide, 1 million outside Japan
Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec = 11 million (4 didn't even make this list...hrm)

Some obviously high selling franchises to compare to:

GTA:Vice City (PS2): 13 million
GTA: San Andreas (PS2): 12 million
MGS2 (PS2): 7 million
Gran Turismo (PS1): 10 million
FF7 (PS1): 9.8 million
MGS (PS1): 6.6 million
SMB (NES): 40.23 million

So, if we put aside wikipedia doubt (which I'll admit isn't always best):

MGS 3 sold roughly half of MGS2

FF12 sold less than half of FF7

GT4 didn't rate but the first game sold 10 million.

Even if we count GT4 at 4 million, these three titles combined didn't sell as much as GTA:SA.

So clearly these franchises are on the downturn sales wise. They're "relevant" in the sense that the sequels will likely be at least million sellers, but I sure wouldn't want to stake a systems' future on them.

[Lothars]

They are great games, but the reason I like their stories is because they're complete pseudointellectual bullshit and they make no excuses about being exactly that. Completely over the top, while still maintaining a straight face.

I mean, you can't really expect anyone to take a game where the President of the United States grabs the protagonist in the crotch because he's not sure if it's a man or a woman seriously.



Absolutely I agree with that, they are over the top but that's also part of the charm of the games in a sense as well.

[Lothars]

So clearly these franchises are on the downturn sales wise. They're "relevant" in the sense that the sequels will likely be at least million sellers, but I sure wouldn't want to stake a systems' future on them.

Well I do still think that those games are possible to steak a systems future on it, but it's not all the system should rely on.

[sabre2922]

FF? no


MEtal Gear Solid games are still very few and far between. Only three games so far in three generations (soon to be 4). They are not milking this thing for all its worth really, and thats good. The stories are always AAA quality and the games never let up. MGS will probably carry the ps3 on its back for a while untill Sony can muster up God of War 3.

Agreed although I think your leaving out the original 8-bit games on MSX and NES you know the original METAL GEARS sans the Solid=3-D.


Metal Gear Solid still absolutely matters. MGS4 WILL sell systems, I guarantee that. Maybe MGS3 came and went for you, but from everything I've seen, it was the biggest MGS yet and a monumental game to everyone I know. I still see just about everybody talking about it and playing it on a fairly regular basis. Just a couple weeks ago I was in a computer lab at my school, talking to my boyfriend over AIM and he started talking about the game, and then at the exact same time I overheard some guys in the back of the room talking about the game. Very big coincidence or a very big game? You tell me. I think MGS2 would be a much better choice for a game that came and went. MGS3 was revolutionary and took the series in a much appreciated direction, just as Resident Evil 4 did that same year, and to many people I come across, that time period will be remembered as one of the most impressive in gaming's history (and this is from jaded gamers that have seen it all and aren't the type to be all "Best year ever for games!" every single year).

Gran Turismo, on the other hand, has run its course I think, and it seems to barely stir up more excitement than Ridge Racer these days and that's not a good thing. Too many other racing games have stolen its spotlight.

As for Final Fantasy, I don't think it EVER really mattered, and I mean that in the most kind way possible. If we're talking Japan, then, yeah, it's huge, but in the US? Sure, most RPG fans will buy it, but what percentage of the US consumer base really gives a damn about RPGs? The internet gives off a skewed view of gamers since RPG players tend to be more vocal. Casual gamers don't care to get online and talk about games as much, nor do they need to look up guides and ask questions. They don't need to discuss plots or talk about how much they love/hate any given character. They just play God of War and Madden and be done with it. Final Fantasy wasn't anything but niche before Final Fantasy VII, and even with that title, it's a joke to think it saved the PlayStation or made it what it was. The PlayStation was a massive success because of mainstream stuff like Tomb Raider, Tekken, Twisted Metal, and Crash Bandicoot. Final Fantasy VII helped and opened the doors for more PS1 RPGs, but outside the realm of RPG players, it was nothing. Of course, it created a fair number of new RPG fans, but that's a different story. In the end, yeah, it'll sell PS3s to RPG fans, but it won't be enough to save the PS3 from the state its in now.

I really could not have agreed MORE with all of these statements but I do think you may be whitewashing what Metal Gear Solid 2 meant to the PS2 and how BIG that game was even though it might have been a let down to a few of us fans as far as the convoluted storyline and a few other minor things it was everything that it was hyped to be for most gamers be it casual or hardcore MG fanboys.

The fact is most MGS fans loved MGS3 including ME. I thought it fixed everthing that needed to be fixed in part 2 and added whole new elements of gameplay that really pushed the series forward and was amazing for what it accomplished on an already aging game system -PS2- and slightly aging game engine.

Metal Gear is definitely DOES STILL MATTER even though I love the Metal Gears almost as much as my Silent Hills I think the series should end in grand style with part 4.

Gran Turismo is good but I really havent played more than 20% of ANY of the GTs since part 2. Gran Turismo is no longer as relevant as it was back in the PS1 and and early days of PS2.

Final Fantasy is still a strong franchise and for me part 12 was a return to form.
Unfortunately the new FFs on PS3 seem to be a slight throwback to something like FF-X-2 wich i despised.

[sabre2922]

They are great games, but the reason I like their stories is because they're complete pseudointellectual bullshit and they make no excuses about being exactly that. Completely over the top, while still maintaining a straight face.

I mean, you can't really expect anyone to take a game where the President of the United States grabs the protagonist in the crotch because he's not sure if it's a man or a woman seriously.

In all respect djsquarewave you are so off about the Metal Gear series that its painful not that its over the top etc.
Its just that you simply DO NOT GET IT and I highly doubt that you have played all of the Metal Gear Solid games completely through or you would have much more of an understanding of what HIDEO KOJIMA has been trying to accomplish with each installment.

When it comes to games like Metal Gear, Zelda, and Silent Hill I will always defend them to the end. To me these game series are all thats RIGHT with our favorite hobby when compared to all that is wrong with videogames of today.

[djsquarewave]

In all respect djsquarewave you are so off about the Metal Gear series that its painful not that its over the top etc.
Its just that you simply DO NOT GET IT and I highly doubt that you have played all of the Metal Gear Solid games completely through or you would have much more of an understanding of what HIDEO KOJIMA has been trying to accomplish with each installment.
I've played all the way through all three titles, and I own about six different versions of MGS2 in particular. I think you just might have a different idea of what the purpose behind the games is than I do. I do appreciate your namedrop, though, which I counter with a Fumito Ueda.

[Eteric Rice]

From what I understand, Dragon Quest is still the biggest RPG in Japan. And right now, that seems to be going exclusively to Nintendo systems. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon Quest X was on the Wii.

As for Final Fantasy XIII, it's hard to say. I do get the feeling that it's going to be the lowest selling of the series. And really, the series needs to either die, or take a break. It's been milked to death, and now they've put it on a system that the Japanese public isn't buying.

While I'm sure it'll sell, it won't sell like it's predecessors.

MGS4, I don't know. It'll sell well. Probably over a million copies in the USA.

[petewhitley]

From what I understand, Dragon Quest is still the biggest RPG in Japan. And right now, that seems to be going exclusively to Nintendo systems. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon Quest X was on the Wii.

Famitsu puts the ball squarely in Final Fantasy's court, for what it's worth. In Japan, it's worth quite a bit. Not to undercut the importance of Dragon Quest however.

[m117]

I believe that despite the present unpopularity of Sony's new iteration of the playstation, the MGS, FF, GT and franchises will act as a jump start for sales. I'm not saying that consoles will fly off the shelves as soon as MGS4 launches in '08(or whenever it launches, i'm not keeping up anymore), but momentum for the ps3 will gradually increase with the release of new issues of these solid brands. If MGS4 turns out to be as good as it is purported to be then it may be single handedly responsible for setting in motion a turn-around in sales of the PS3. Good reviews and word of mouth will cast a bright ray of hope on the console, which with a growing repertoire of significant titles will become a definite contender against its competitors.

[heybtbm]

As for Final Fantasy XIII, it's hard to say. I do get the feeling that it's going to be the lowest selling of the series. And really, the series needs to either die, or take a break. It's been milked to death

Give me a break.

Put in 100+ hours on FF12 and then tell me with a straight face that the series needs to die. FF12 is not only the best RPG on the PS2, but one of the best games ever released on the system.

I think we should start an unofficial rule here at DP that if you haven't played a game, you don't get to talk shit about it.

[YoshiM]

I stopped playing and caring about Final Fantasy games when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.

I stopped playing FF when magic attacks took minutes due to the animations and when it just felt like I was hitting buttons just to get to the next FMV.

Kinda the same with MGS. I loved the first but couldn't stand the movi...er...game that was MGS 2. Sorry, I don't have the time to sit through a bunch of movies to play a game. When that big 30 minute whopper came on, that was it.

As for GT- I personally thought it was boring.

It could be me but it's like these titles aren't getting the fanfare they used to. Final Fantasy, like others have stated, seems to be getting worn out thanks to all the remakes that have been coming out. The MGS camp is also kinda quiet, possibly thanks to rival Sam Fischer. As for Gran Turismo-it seems like arcade racers are making a comeback (Excite Truck, Burnout, DiRT, Need for Speed, That-Off-Road-Racer-On-PS3-Whose-Name-I-Can't-Think-Of, etc.).

[Blackcrow]

I stopped playing and caring about Final Fantasy games when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.

Seems to me that Final Fantasy games cater to the same crowd as American Idol does and that doesn't include me.

Ah yeah after Final Fantasy 9 they went down hill for me. Sure I still went and picked them up. Went and picked up Final Fantasy 12, a few months ago. Oh wow, looks and feels just like.. 11. So for me its dead and 6 feet under.

(Oh and your post made me lol. "when it became tough to tell the difference between the males and the females.")

As for the other games, Mgs will always sell, and the GT games were for people who didn't own a car and didn't go out and race friday nights. :fist:

Ps3 is like Windows Vista, it just sucks.

[goemon]

I stopped playing FF when magic attacks took minutes due to the animations and when it just felt like I was hitting buttons just to get to the next FMV.

So, VIII, then?

To me, VII was good, but I never got into the battles like I did in V and VI. Same thing with VIII, where half the game time was spent watching the same GF animations over and over during each battle. I never played IX, but X had a great story and better battles, and the Sphere Grid system was a huge improvement. Haven't played XI or XII, either.

Final Fantasy still matters, though. I could see XIII selling some PS3's. If it does get ported to the 360, from what I read, the port would have to be quite different, since the White Engine was designed for the Cell processor.

[boatofcar]

In all respect djsquarewave you are so off about the Metal Gear series that its painful not that its over the top etc.
Its just that you simply DO NOT GET IT and I highly doubt that you have played all of the Metal Gear Solid games completely through or you would have much more of an understanding of what HIDEO KOJIMA has been trying to accomplish with each installment.


:roll:


HIDEO KOJIMA likes making money. HIDEO KOJIMA can't get a movie deal. So HIDEO KOJIMA keeps making Metal Gear games that are more and more cinematic.

[YoshiM]

So, VIII, then?


Wow, pretty good. I was never a die hard FF player-played FF1 and never got a chance to play anything else until VII came out. I rented VII and couldn't get into it too much. I can't recall what detracted me, besides the combat/main movement graphics. VIII looked more interesting so I think I bought it used. This is where the "press buttons until you get to an FMV" bit comes in. There didn't seem to be much exploration or even a sort of "leveling" like in past faves Phantasy Star games.

I threw in the towel when trying to escape some complex in X amount of time and the spell animations took up WAY too much time, causing time to run out.

[j_factor]

Didn't FF8 and X have an option to greatly reduce the spell/summon animations?

[heybtbm]

Didn't FF8 and X have an option to greatly reduce the spell/summon animations?

FF9 and FF10 did. FF8 did not.

[Lothars]

Ps3 is like Windows Vista, it just sucks.

:roll:

Man you really are clueless that's all I am gonna say about that.

[Lothars]

FF9 and FF10 did. FF8 did not.

I am almost positive that FF8 has something like that, mainly because I remember that the first time you watch them they are long but I believe there is a place to change the option

Though I might be wrong, it's all good.

[heybtbm]

I am almost positive that FF8 has something like that, mainly because I remember that the first time you watch them they are long but I believe there is a place to change the option

Though I might be wrong, it's all good.

FF8 didn't have a way to bypass the cutscenes. The outcry from annoyed fans prompted Square to include the feature in FF9 and FF10. I don't know how many times I had to sit through the Diablos summon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r13p46xS0Os)...but I still have the damn thing memorized.

[RugalSizzler]

MG1 was the return of Snake. MG2 had that Free Willy commercial...Really have to see it on a big screen. MG3 was not on the GCN and that makes GCN fans who like MG not want to buy into it.

The GCN is not a remake but a revision of the original with GCN graphics. Very diffrent from the original game. The PSP game is basic return of the NES game only enhanced. There is also a movie on the PSP that is really nicely done.
The PSP also have Two variations of Card battle games.

Nobody cares about Gran Turismo. I never even played this game once.
That is the truth about this game. Racing game wow.

Final Fantasy just stop focusing on art and more 3d which pretty much ended with 8 which is probably the last original Final Fantasy game. Ever other game afterwords went mainstream and was repeatitive. The games are still great and just as original as the previous ones. Also Sqaure is more then just about Final Fantasy. The same problems they are having now with repetitive attitudes is the same problem that lead to there current status.

A great example is how the Matron Machine in Chrono Trigger also appears in FF8 and Treasure Of the Rudras as diffrent enemies.

[Eteric Rice]

Give me a break.

Put in 100+ hours on FF12 and then tell me with a straight face that the series needs to die. FF12 is not only the best RPG on the PS2, but one of the best games ever released on the system.

I think we should start an unofficial rule here at DP that if you haven't played a game, you don't get to talk shit about it.

*looks at you with a straight face*

It needs to die. Or at least get revisioned, because it's becoming so... Err... Hard to say. Well, I'll just say that it's lost it's charm with me. Especially the latest ones. I wish they'd hire some new people (especially a new artist, Nomura needs to go) and come up with some fresh ideas, and a fresh style.

And I've played Final Fantasy 12, thanks for pulling the conclusion that I haven't out of your butt. :mad:

[goemon]

It needs to die. Or at least get revisioned, because it's becoming so... Err... Hard to say. Well, I'll just say that it's lost it's charm with me. Especially the latest ones. I wish they'd hire some new people (especially a new artist, Nomura needs to go) and come up with some fresh ideas, and a fresh style.

I agree that the character and world designs have gone downhill. They need to bring back Yoshitaka Amano as the character designer and possibly in other roles. If there was a FF game where the whole thing looked like an Amano drawing... that would be unimaginably awesome.

[djsquarewave]

It needs to die. Or at least get revisioned, because it's becoming so... Err... Hard to say. Well, I'll just say that it's lost it's charm with me. Especially the latest ones. I wish they'd hire some new people (especially a new artist, Nomura needs to go) and come up with some fresh ideas, and a fresh style.
Tetsuya Nomura is a man with a palette of belts and improbable hair. Not even Final Fantasy should be subjected to such horror. It's sort of funny in Kingdom Hearts, though.

Wasn't FF12 supposed to be a reinvention of the RPG anyway, at least in the sense of the systems? I remember reading that, and I was interested in it until Matsuno left Square halfway through its production.

[DigitalSpace]

the GT games were for people who didn't own a car and didn't go out and race friday nights. :fist:

Ps3 is like Windows Vista, it just sucks.

So, what corner of GameFAQs did you come from?

Anyways, even with how the PS3 and PSP are doing, I think the next installments of GT on both systems will be the top sellers for both consoles at some point, unless Sony and Polyphony Digital really fuck something up.

[RugalSizzler]

I'll just say that it's lost it's charm with me

I know how feel last three or four years ago but the problem is the creativity in the FF series.

Now it feels like a way to get your money for nothing. Also I miss acting out the vioces and singing to the tunes. Now they get these crum bum vioce actors and try to make everything look too real.

[Ed Oscuro]

Final Fantasy: Reached its apex ten years ago. Failed to sell PS2's hard drive.
I have that. $40, overpaid - but I have something to use HDLoader on, I suppose (or will I be able to do that in the PS3? Heh, heh).