Media Mail... hoo boy.

[Kitsune Sniper]

By now, those of you who know me are aware that my local post office will not let me ship anything via Media Mail. I spoke with one of the clerks yesterday and he told me that the service is only for educational items and music-related things.

So I went to the USPS and looked at the new rules and regulations... and found that, in fact, videogames are most definitely not elegible for Media Mail shipping. In fact, movies, software, or games are not allowed.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm

In case that's too much for you to read, here's a summary:

* Books that contain no ads for anything but other books;
* 16mm films (and film catalogs)
* Printed music
* Printed test materials
* Sound or video recordings (I believe these are not commercial ones)
* Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals and music
* Printed reference charts for educational purposes
* Medical, loose-leaf pages and/or binders containing them
* "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media."

Note that it does not say that videogames, computer games, computer software, DVDs and VHS tapes are elegible.

I also asked why big shops like Amazon can use Media Mail, and they said that it's actually a separate rate called "Standard Mail", or something. It's just as slow, just cheaper.

So everyone who keeps using Media Mail had better stop doing it... or else you may get slapped with extra postage fees when your local post office starts to get anal about this. Well, at least now I can tell people who complain about me not shipping via Media to go read those rules. :p

[ryborg]

I also asked why big shops like Amazon can use Media Mail, and they said that it's actually a separate rate called "Standard Mail", or something. It's just as slow, just cheaper.

They (and many other businesses) set up a deal with USPS (Amazon also has a deal with UPS) and yes, they do use Standard, which is the lowest priority package service. It can be held in any post office for any reason for any reasonable amount of time, unlike Priority/First Class, which has to be transported that day. Hell, with Standard, if the package isn't marked "Address Service Requested" or something similar, and the package is going to an old address, it doesn't get forwarded; it gets junked.


So everyone who keeps using Media Mail had better stop doing it... or else you may get slapped with extra postage fees when your local post office starts to get anal about this. Well, at least now I can tell people who complain about me not shipping via Media to go read those rules. :p

Media Mail is terrible. The real problem isn't that it's against the rules to ship gaming stuff with it. It's obviously slow, and it gets transported in massive thousand-pound pallettes, lumped in with books, so it can get crushed easily. First Class/Parcel Post isn't that much more and it's incredibly faster and safer.

[veronica_marsfan]

* "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media."

Note that it does not say that videogames, computer games, computer software, DVDs and VHS tapes are elegible...... now I can tell people who complain about me not shipping via Media to go read those rules. Hello?

(knock knock knock)

What do you think videogames are? ANSWER: "Computer-readable media." I don't ship cartridges, but I ship everything on CD or DVD (including music/movies) via media mail, because it's clearly allowed. "Sound or video recordings" includes any CDs or DVDs like Britney Spears music, Titanic the movie, or Warcraft the videogame (computer-readable media). Don't sit there and tell me I'm not allowed to use media mail*, when the rules clearly state I CAN for these items.

(angry)

What's next? You going to tell me the Star Trek novel I just sold, I can't ship via media mail? BS.



* I use 1st class mail if it's $1.52 or cheaper
.

[Griking]

By now, those of you who know me are aware that my local post office will not let me ship anything via Media Mail. I spoke with one of the clerks yesterday and he told me that the service is only for educational items and music-related things.

So I went to the USPS and looked at the new rules and regulations... and found that, in fact, videogames are most definitely not elegible for Media Mail shipping. In fact, movies, software, or games are not allowed.

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm

In case that's too much for you to read, here's a summary:

* Books that contain no ads for anything but other books;
* 16mm films (and film catalogs)
* Printed music
* Printed test materials
* Sound or video recordings (I believe these are not commercial ones)
* Playscripts and manuscripts for books, periodicals and music
* Printed reference charts for educational purposes
* Medical, loose-leaf pages and/or binders containing them
* "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media."

Note that it does not say that videogames, computer games, computer software, DVDs and VHS tapes are elegible.

I also asked why big shops like Amazon can use Media Mail, and they said that it's actually a separate rate called "Standard Mail", or something. It's just as slow, just cheaper.

So everyone who keeps using Media Mail had better stop doing it... or else you may get slapped with extra postage fees when your local post office starts to get anal about this. Well, at least now I can tell people who complain about me not shipping via Media to go read those rules. :p

The description that you posted above is nothing new. I've spoken to the post master in my state and was told that computer and video games definitely DO fall under the category of "Computer-readable media containing prerecorded information and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such media."

I don't know what else I can say or tell you other than it sounds like they're being pricks in your area.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Hello?

(knock knock knock)

What do you think videogames are? ANSWER: "Computer-readable media." I don't ship cartridges, but I ship everything on CD or DVD (including music/movies) via media mail, because it's clearly allowed. "Sound or video recordings" includes any CDs or DVDs like Britney Spears music, Titanic the movie, or Warcraft the videogame (computer-readable media). Don't sit there and tell me I'm not allowed to use media mail*, when the rules clearly state I CAN for these items.

(angry)

What's next? You going to tell me the Star Trek novel I just sold, I can't ship via media mail? BS.



* I use 1st class mail if it's $1.52 or cheaper
.

All the items mentioned on that list are educational in nature. Videogames and computer software are not educational; well, most of them aren't, anyway. The clerk mentioned that the only items I can ship via Media are sound or video recordings are stuff that -you record yourself-. VHS tapes, CD/DVDRs and whatnot. Nothing commercial. Personal things may fall into this classification.

That Star Trek novel can be shipped via Media, it says so on the first paragraph; but Book Rate is the shipping rate for books, so you should be using that instead.

Griking:
Well, I understood that last heading as recordable media that has educational or musical material in it. I think that originally meant that it should be media that's shipped from a school to another school. You know, research stuff? The rules don't say "games, music, videos are not allowed" but most everything that can be shipped isn't commercial in nature (except for books, which are fine), so it should be assumed that games and movies shouldn't be sent.

I'd like to know why the USPS hasn't bothered updating the description for Media Mail in years. They should've done so when people started complaining... I guess they're too busy trying to see how to raise their rates.

[veronica_marsfan]

The clerk mentioned that the only items I can ship via Media are sound or video recordings are stuff that -you record yourself-. Your clerk is lying to you (and making-up regulations that do not exist). I can mail a Britney Spears CD, or a Titanic DVD, via media mail even though these items are published by commercial companies. I've done it many, many times in many, many post offices ranging from New England to Michigan to Oklahoma.

Next time, try a different post office that DOES allow CDs/DVDs to be mailed as media.

Also of note: "Sound recordings may include incidental announcements [advertisements] of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings." - http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg300/Q370.htm



Where is your post office located? I'd like to go check it out myself (I do a LOT of travel & eventually get to everywhere). I'd like to talk to these clerks face-to-face to see if they refuse to let me ship a Titanic or Britney CD/DVD via media mail.
That Star Trek novel can be shipped via Media, it says so on the first paragraph; but Book Rate is the shipping rate for books, so you should be using that instead. Book Rate and Media Mail are the same thing. (Media is the formal term; book rate is the slang.) If you think I'm wrong, please provide the usps.gov link that describes "book rate" as distinct from media mail. Thanks.

Bottom Line:

You have a lousy, idiotic person running your post office. I've shipped from many, many different offices all across the U.S. and every one of them allowed me to ship CDs/DVD regardless of the content of those recordings (music, video, or games). Repeat: Where is your USPS office located? I want to visit them.

[DreamTR]

Kitsune: I hate to say it, but your clerk is full of it....I don't know how many post offices there are in Calexico...but that one is way out of line.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Your clerk is lying to you (and making-up regulations that do not exist). I can mail a Britney Spears CD, or a Titanic DVD, via media mail even though these items are published by commercial companies. I've done it many, many times in many, many post offices ranging from New England to Michigan to Oklahoma.

Next time, try a different post office that DOES allow CDs/DVDs to be mailed as media.

Also of note: "Sound recordings may include incidental announcements [advertisements] of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings." - http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg300/Q370.htm



Where is your post office located? I'd like to go check it out myself (I do a LOT of travel & eventually get to everywhere). I'd like to talk to these clerks face-to-face to see if they refuse to let me ship a Titanic or Britney CD/DVD via media mail. Book Rate and Media Mail are the same thing. (Media is the formal term; book rate is the slang.) If you think I'm wrong, please provide the usps.gov link that describes "book rate" as distinct from media mail. Thanks.

Bottom Line:

You have a lousy, idiotic person running your post office. I've shipped from many, many different offices all across the U.S. and every one of them allowed me to ship CDs/DVD regardless of the content of those recordings (music, video, or games). Repeat: Where is your USPS office located? I want to visit them.

Media Mail is not the same as Book Rate / Bound Printed Matter.

Media Mail:
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm

Bound Printed Matter:
http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/363.htm

Media Mail cannot contain advertisements, so you can't send magazines or similar stuff that way. Books can be shipped Media, as long as they're educational in nature, and they can't have anything but incidental ads for other books (like a list of the published works of the author, or other books in the series, I bet). Bound Printed Matter items can have advertisements: Magazines, comic books, and other types of books can be shipped this way. Anything that's bound, from the Bible to Mein Kampf, can be shipped.

(Did I just invoke Godwin's Law? :p)

Many clerks don't know the distinction between Media and BPM; One clerk at my location knows about BPM and chooses that when I ask, but another chooses Media instead.

Media Mail is also a bit more expensive than BPM; Media costs $2.13 for the first pound, while BPM can cost up to $1.70 for the first pound. There's also a fifteen pound limit on BPM.

If you want to know my post office's address, it's the 92231 office in 1101 Ollie Ave, Calexico, CA. Good luck convincing them.

[y-bot]

Media Mail is not exclusively for educational items. Maybe your post office is confusing Library Rate with Media Mail.

http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/senditwithintheus/libraryrate.htm

USPS employees are wrong all the time. Many times we've had to print out the rules from the USPS website and show them to the clerks at a post office. Some of them are totally clueless. Videogames, music CDs and DVDs are computer readable media and can be shipped via Media Mail. Unless they change the rules and specify those items I don't see what the problem is.

y-bot

[veronica_marsfan]

Media Mail is also a bit more expensive than BPM; Media costs $2.13 for the first pound, while BPM can cost up to $1.70 for the first pound. TOTALLY WRONG. Media does cost $2.13 for the first pound, but Bound Matter costs up to $2.46 (your link states).

Furthermore:

There is NOTHING in the media mail rules that says "education only". Not one damn thing to that effect. (If you believe there is, show me the link where it says "only" for education; it doesn't exist.)
it's the 92231 office in 1101 Ollie Ave, Calexico, CA. Good luck convincing them.

I searched. There are *6* post offices within 20 miles distance of your home. Why don't you go use one of the OTHER post offices that DOES allow shipping CDs/DVDs as media mail? Go try one of them; you might be surprised to find yourself mailing CDs/DVDs for less than what you've been paying.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I searched. There are *6* post offices within 20 miles distance of your home. Why don't you go use one of the OTHER post offices that DOES allow shipping CDs/DVDs as media mail?

As for my Star Trek novel, the link you provided clearly states I can NOT ship that novel as bound-printed matter.

Would I pay $20 for a round trip taxi to any of those post offices? Or do I go to my local one, which costs me $2 for a round trip bus ride? All of those other post offices are -outside the city-, and there are no bus routes that go that way, except for the Heber post office... which is smaller than my room. Taxi cabs charge a lot for trips out of the city.

And is your Star Trek book in a binder or something? Why can't you ship it via BPM?

[veronica_marsfan]

"bound printed matter" is intended to ship stacks of newspapers or magazines wrapped with string or plastic bands. NOT single books. It says it right there in your link. ----- AND I already showed you how shipping the Trek novel by media mail is *cheaper* than bound mail, so media makes more sense.

Furthermore:

There is NOTHING in the media mail rules that says "education only". Not one damn thing to that effect. (If you believe there is, show me the link where it says "only" for education; it doesn't exist.)

[Kitsune Sniper]

"bound printed matter" is intended to ship stacks of newspapers or magazines wrapped with string or plastic bands. NOT single books. It says it right there in your link. ----- AND I already showed you how shipping the Trek novel by media mail is *cheaper* than bound mail, so media makes more sense.

Furthermore:

There is NOTHING in the media mail rules that says "education only". Not one damn thing to that effect. (If you believe there is, show me the link where it says "only" for education; it doesn't exist.)
Bound Printed Matter refers to anything that is, uh, bound and printed. Books bound with glue, staples or string, count.

About the rates, I was looking at the second table, not the first one. My mistake.

Perhaps the postal workers are confusing Media with Library, but the Media guidelines say that several of the items that can be shipped through it are for educational purposes. Check 3.2.a: "Books, including books issued to supplement other books, of at least eight printed pages, consisting wholly of reading matter or scholarly bibliography, or reading matter with incidental blank spaces for notations and containing no advertising matter other than incidental announcements of books." Then there's sheet music, printed -test materials-, playscripts and book manuscripts, educational reference charts, and medical information. ALL of that can be considered educational. I think the movie reel thing is a throwback to the 1950's or so when schools used to show movies in classes with reel projectors.

I still think Media can't be used for games and software, but until the USPS gets off its ass and clears this up, we'll never know for sure.

[ryborg]

Media Mail arguments are awesome.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Media Mail arguments are awesome.

Well, all those fights regarding RugalSizzler's $30 shipping fees were boring. :p

[veronica_marsfan]

the Media guidelines say that several of the items that can be shipped through it are for educational purposes. Yes they CAN be educational, but they don't have to be. They could be a Madonna CD. They could be a Titanic DVD. They could be a copy of Stargate the novel. ----- None of which is educational.


I still think Media can't be used for games and software, but until the USPS gets off its ass and clears this up, we'll never know for sure.

They DID clarify the rules. Around 6 years ago they added the phrase "computer-readable media". Prior to that, you couldn't mail computer discs (floppies). Now you can.

[geelw]

games sent via media mail (unless they're packed to survive the trip) WILL MOST LIKELY ARRIVE DAMAGED. period. i took note of the last ten games i'd gotten that were shipped via media mail in either plain manila or crappy "bubble" packing (on and off of ebay) and nine out of that ten arrived in worse shape than originally pictured or described.

as a seller, i refuse to send any game via media mail no matter how far it's going. i've sent out satacks of vhs tapes in the past via media in one of my crazy frankenboxes (patent pending), but games i'm picky about. i send stuff out the same way i'd want to get it, as opposed to some ebay sellers who overcharge just to recoup listing, closing and paypal fees while they stuff games in the cheapest packing possible and claim that paying for insurance will somehow keep your game safer.

granted, i pack games to the point where they could survive an explosion, but as another poster reported, stuff isn't gently sorted as much as it is mashed together when shipped media mail.

g.

[Darth Vader]

If you can't ship video games via media mail, why does half.com specify sellers to ship it exactly that way? Your post office is full of shit, Kitsune.

Danny

[geelw]

i USED to ship out media mail. i don't for a few reasons. the p.o. footballing media packages is one, here's another: a few years back i go to the p.o. with three boxes, one had CD's in it, two had games. there's a new clerk at the counter. i walk up and she asks the usual "anything hazardous, etc..." "nope, games and CD's" i say. she looks at me like i just beat her cat to death and says "you know you can't ship games as media mail, right?" i look at her like she shot my cat (and i don't even have a cat) and tell her i've been sending games out by media mail for years. she says "well, that's wrong - you can only send books, videotapes and printed matter via media mail." she's trying to push my two boxes back at me and i tell her she might want to go read whatever manual comes with that uniform and rubber gloves she's wearing.

i'm about three breaths from yanking her skull through that little slot when she calls a supervisor over (guess she saw the veins bulging in my eyeballs) who not only says "it's ok" he ends up processing my order and apologizing. the crazy thing was a few days later, i'm back again and she tries to pull the same thing on me. supervisor was at lunch. i took my packages to another post office (that was a hike) and haven't shipped any games media since. the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at the post office and some of these folks know NOTHING about online shipping in regards to stuff like airmail or what to do when they don't need to process customs forms that were printed online... but that's enother story.

i use carrier pickup for anything going out these days - saves me grief.

[Kitsune Sniper]

i use carrier pickup for anything going out these days - saves me grief.

Some of us don't have that luxury. :(

In other random inanity by my local clerks, they've tried to stop me from shipping stuff via Bound Printed Matter because I include receipts... I'm a member of a book club and they send me books whenever I forget to cancel an order. They ask me to put the receipt and a note inside the box and ship it back to them via BPM.

The clerks keep asking me if the package includes a note... and I tell them no, even though it does. They say that including a note changes the item from BPM to Parcel.

Well I started looking over the rules, and I found this (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/363.htm#wp1019956), which says they're full of shit. I can include an invoice, a receipt, or a small note with the package and it doesn't change anything, it's still elegible. So if they try to tell me that again, I'll just tell them, "Get the mail manual and check points 3.3.1 to 3.3.3. I'll wait."

[geelw]

Some of us don't have that luxury. :(

go to usps.com, sign up for a free account and select carrier pickup. you can have a driver come by to pick up your priority, express or other mail (as long as there's priority mail as part of the shipment) for free. heck, if you use paypal, buy a postal scale and get free boxes from the site as well. you can print labels through paypal's multiorder shipping and not have to leave your house.

er, or is it possible that you live somewhere they won't pick up?

[veronica_marsfan]

she asks the usual "anything hazardous, etc..." "nope, games and CD's" i say. she looks at me like i just beat her cat to death and says "you know you can't ship games as media mail, right?" You can save yourself a lot of trouble (when speaking to any gov't agent) by giving as little information as possible. "Oh just some CDs and DVDs." Which is the truth, because games come on cds and dvds. I've never had anybody press harder, but if they did I would say, "You know... computer-readable media. Software," which again is 100% the truth.

games sent via media mail (unless they're packed to survive the trip) WILL MOST LIKELY ARRIVE DAMAGED.


You answered the flaw: "If packed to survive the trip". If the seller is lazy and using NO padding of any kind, it doesn't matter if he used media, 1st class, or priority*. The game inside the padded envelope will get damaged.

I've even received damaged games inside priority boxes, because the game bounced around until it literally shattered (the jewel case).

Me I use media all the time, and never have any problems. That's because I use lots and lots of extra padding to protect the game inside the envelope.


*
priority using a regular envelope
nine out of that ten arrived in worse shape than originally pictured or described. Have you thought that maybe the seller LIED about the condition of the game? "Like new" even though the seller knows it's scratched or broken? The game may have been lousy condition before it ever left the seller's home.

[Kitsune Sniper]

er, or is it possible that you live somewhere they won't pick up?

That's right. I live in Mexico. :P

I actually have a legitimate shipping address in the US, but I run my business from my home in Mexico. :)

[Griking]

games sent via media mail (unless they're packed to survive the trip) WILL MOST LIKELY ARRIVE DAMAGED. period. i took note of the last ten games i'd gotten that were shipped via media mail in either plain manila or crappy "bubble" packing (on and off of ebay) and nine out of that ten arrived in worse shape than originally pictured or described.

I'd say it was more of a case where the shipper did a shitty job of packaging their product then anything to do with media mail. I ship and receive items via media mail and haven't had a problem yet that I'd blame on the post office. If someone ships a game via ANY shipping method in only a manila envelope the odds are its gonna be damaged.