[no laserdiscs/vcrs] Earliest FMV (prerecorded video) used in a game?

[veronica_marsfan]

[Edit - at home / no laserdiscs or vcrs]

I believe it was 1989 - Dragon's Lair for the Commodore Amiga. The whole game was a prerecorded video of the cartoon (approximately 30 minutes in length). It was stored across 6 floppy disks. ----- It was so popular it was later followed by Space Ace in 1990 which also used prerecorded video.

Anyone know of an earlier example?

[Nicola]

Well, virtually every laser game uses FMV. As for the home market, the RDI Halcyon (1985) is based on laser disk tech.

[Jorpho]

It's not really FMV in those old Dragon's Lair ports, is it? I thought it was something vaguely akin to Flash, with the animation separate from the backgrounds or something.

[Flack]

It's not really FMV in those old Dragon's Lair ports, is it? I thought it was something vaguely akin to Flash, with the animation separate from the backgrounds or something.

Correct. From Syd Bolton's Dragon's Lair page:

One of the questions that people often ask about the early "full screen video" versions of Dragon's Lair is "Aren't some of the rooms missing?" and the answer is YES. Most noticeably, the Burning Ropes, Falling Elevator and Electric Horse rooms are not there. Why? Mainly because of the type of rooms they were. The Visionary team used a technique called Rotoscoping, where you essentially separate the background and foreground imagery in the game. Because those screens contained backgrounds that changed extremely from frame to frame, using delta compression techniques was not possible (saving only the changes from frame to frame).

Also, we've hashed this topic (first FMV) out before. Read here:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18938

[veronica_marsfan]

Why does it matter if the background is static? That's how most cartoons are made (go watch Tom & Jerry.... static background drawing overlaid with moving characters). And since Dragon's Lair was a cartoon using the same techniques, it makes sense the home versions would be too.

(shrug)

Back in 1989, Dragons Lair and Space Ace were the most-impressive graphics I'd ever seen. And they weren't using a laserdisc, but actual "live" images created by the video chip.

[Lady Jaye]

Case closed, Joe answered that question way back when:


I don't see how you can say Sherlock Holmes: Consuting Detective ISN'T a full-motion video game. You can't play the game without the full-motion video, even if you don't have an actual cursor over the screen "controlling" things.

I'm not sure that was the first developed, however. Have you guys ever watched the hidden video on Night Trap where they show the design team working on the game "Scene of the Crime" (which eventually became Night Trap) in 1986? 1986 - years before any home FMV game was released.

Your question wasn't specific but if you're asking which game was developed first, I beleive it's Night Trap - at least that's the earliest proven. If you're asking which one was first RELEASED it was Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective. And FYI also for arcade buffs: Dragon's Lair was NOT the first FMV game in arcades. That honor belongs to Sega's Astron Belt:
http://www.dragons-lair-project.com/games/pages/astron.asp

For a full list of home full-motion video games, check here:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18451

Just nevermind the first link, as it's now dead.

[veronica_marsfan]

Yeah well...

...a game playing a laserdisc is hardly impressive. Although I didn't say it outloud, what I had in my mind were games that use the console's graphics processor /display. Not discs or tapes.

[Flack]

Why does it matter if the background is static? That's how most cartoons are made (go watch Tom & Jerry.... static background drawing overlaid with moving characters). And since Dragon's Lair was a cartoon using the same techniques, it makes sense the home versions would be too.

(shrug)

Back in 1989, Dragons Lair and Space Ace were the most-impressive graphics I'd ever seen. And they weren't using a laserdisc, but actual "live" images created by the video chip.

Well, I would say it "matters" because you are asking about full motion video, and I would not say small digitized animated characters layed over a static computer background qualifies as full-motion video.

And thank you for your suggestion to go watch a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I had no idea cartoons were made using background drawings. I just thought someone had erased the backgrounds from all the animation cells I've collected throughout the years ...

[Jorpho]

...a game playing a laserdisc is hardly impressive. Although I didn't say it outloud, what I had in my mind were games that use the console's graphics processor /display. Not discs or tapes.

That is the case for Night Trap and Sherlock Holmes, isn't it?

[tom]

definitely Interplanetary Voyage on Magnavox Odyssey....joke aside, Ralph Baer wanted to have real TV background for his games, here's from the Odyssey FAQ:

Then, he tried
to use again his "cable TV" games where the overlays were replaced by
constant pictures broadcasted through the TV cable. His idea was better,
since in addition to the "broadcasted overlays", new moving [football] players
were also broadcasted, thus giving the impression of playing with distant
players.

[veronica_marsfan]

Well, I would say it "matters" because you are asking about full motion video, and I would not say small digitized animated characters layed over a static computer background qualifies as full-motion video.

Okay. Reasonable. However they are not "small" animations. Dirk the Daring and the other characters in the foreground often fill the whole screen.

[Icarus Moonsight]

This topic could go somewhere. If only you slightly change the focus and scope a bit. First has been determined until new information comes to light. However, FMV was disasterous to Sega yet later became in-demand and prolific since FFVII. What I'm trying to say is there is room for discussion about early FMV vs FMV as it exists today. Just my 2 coppers.

[veronica_marsfan]

The answers provided were laserdisc or vcr-based games..... I wanted to specifically exclude them.


FMV was disasterous to Sega

Sega was disasterous to Sega.

- First they had the extremely-popular Genesis.
- then they created the 32-bit addon
- then they sold the CD addon
- then they said, "Never mind; they're all dead; go buy the new Saturn."
- then they said, "Forget Saturn; it's only two years old but we've already decided you should go guy Dreamcast."

People grew tired of throwing their money (~$800) at Sega devices that were barely used & quickly abandoned. People were tired of wasting their money.

[j_factor]

This topic could go somewhere. If only you slightly change the focus and scope a bit. First has been determined until new information comes to light. However, FMV was disasterous to Sega yet later became in-demand and prolific since FFVII. What I'm trying to say is there is room for discussion about early FMV vs FMV as it exists today. Just my 2 coppers.

FMV games and FMV sequences are two very different things. FMV games backfired because they cost too much (despite seeming low-budget, they were the biggest budget games of the time) and people just plain didn't like 'em.

FMV sequences began with Out of This World (if I'm not mistaken), and that game was pretty well-received at the time.


People grew tired of throwing their money (~$800) at Sega devices that were barely used & quickly abandoned. People were tired of wasting their money.

How can people be tired of doing something they never did? Less than 2 million Saturn systems were sold in North America. 32x didn't even break a million. Sega CD sold okayish but not great. If people had thrown their money at Sega devices, things would've been quite different, and they probably would've lasted longer. Don't get me wrong, Sega still deserves blame for 32x and Saturn and Dreamcast (Sega CD, not so much; it did its job, lasted as long as it needed to). But part of their fates was that too few people bought into them (which is, of course, largely Sega's own fault for mishandling them).

[Icarus Moonsight]

FMV games and FMV sequences are two very different things.

Hence, changing the scope of the discussion. ;) Just a suggestion anywho. Somehow I feel veronica won't be satisfied regardless.

[hbkprm]

ma played dragon's lair years ago
thats what she told me

[rbudrick]

definitely Interplanetary Voyage on Magnavox Odyssey....joke aside, Ralph Baer wanted to have real TV background for his games, here's from the Odyssey FAQ:

Then, he tried
to use again his "cable TV" games where the overlays were replaced by
constant pictures broadcasted through the TV cable. His idea was better,
since in addition to the "broadcasted overlays", new moving [football] players
were also broadcasted, thus giving the impression of playing with distant
players.

Oh, owned. I forgot all about this, The man was truly ahead of his time! There's a good section on this in his book. Would have been really cool if it caught on....

-Rob

[j_factor]

Hence, changing the scope of the discussion. ;) Just a suggestion anywho. Somehow I feel veronica won't be satisfied regardless.

Fair enough.

To address the original topic, though, Dragon's Lair for Amiga most certainly is not FMV. It's just normal sprite-background graphics animated nicely enough to pass as a cartoon. I believe the first non-laserdisc (I don't get why we're excluding laserdisc games, but whatever) FMV game was It Came From the Desert. Including laserdiscs, the first was Astron Belt, and the first for a home system was whatever was released for the Halcyon (Shadoan?).

[ASSEMblerEX]

If it's non laser / vcr then it's probably "it came from the desert" for turbo duo.


Fair enough.

To address the original topic, though, Dragon's Lair for Amiga most certainly is not FMV. It's just normal sprite-background graphics animated nicely enough to pass as a cartoon. I believe the first non-laserdisc (I don't get why we're excluding laserdisc games, but whatever) FMV game was It Came From the Desert. Including laserdiscs, the first was Astron Belt, and the first for a home system was whatever was released for the Halcyon (Shadoan?).

[Jorpho]

Including laserdiscs, the first was Astron Belt, and the first for a home system was whatever was released for the Halcyon (Shadoan?).

I thought the Halcyon was never actually released, though.

There was that VHS Viewmaster thing, though. What was that called again...?

[idrougge]

If it's non laser / vcr then it's probably "it came from the desert" for turbo duo.

How does that differ from the Amiga original?

[j_factor]

Wasn't the Amiga version of It Came From the Desert a completely different game? I haven't played it myself, but I was under the impression that the two were very different, and the original didn't use FMV.

[idrougge]

Wasn't the Amiga version of It Came From the Desert a completely different game? I haven't played it myself, but I was under the impression that the two were very different, and the original didn't use FMV.

That's why I'm asking.

[CRV]

Wasn't the Amiga version of It Came From the Desert a completely different game? I haven't played it myself, but I was under the impression that the two were very different, and the original didn't use FMV.

Yes, the Amiga version does not have FMV. (http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/it-came-from-the-desert/screenshots)

[j_factor]

Thanks for clearing that up.