Video Game Stores: A Rant by DWJ

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I have become very disappointed in the retail market as of late, have you? As a collector of everything from Atari to PS3 I have noticed a serious lack of classic stuff available in the retail market. All the chains have been bought up by Game Stop (those bastards) and so have all the sweet stops that contained a plethora of NES games, Atari Games, etc. (Rhino, Babbages, etc.)

However, this is not the point of my rant. Recently, with Game Stop trying to takeover the world it has opened up a great possibility for indie stores to open and step up to the plate and fill the void that Game Stops are leaving behind... the classics. I use classic losely, one thing I heard today was PS1 is considered classic ROFL ! I stopped into a new indie store today down the street and they had nothing older than PS2 in the store! I asked why they didnt have anything older.... "We dont think it makes much business sense!" is what they told me. With that I stormed out and vowed I would never go back!

Does anyone else agree that there isnt a need for more of these dime a dozen video game stores that only sells current stuff? Don't we have enough of them around already? Heck, I have 5 game stops within 5 miles of my house. Wouldn't it drum up more business and loyal customers if a new store carried everything old and new? Fill a niche that seems to falling by the way side as unimportant? Or is it up to us, the collectors to share amongst ourselves to keep the old classics alive? I don't know about you, but screw the chains and these indies that forget about the classics... ill buy and sell here when I can.

[Damaramu]

I think the only complaint I have against Game Stop is their policy of "we won't get certain games unless people pre-order it."

There's a GS near a theater I like to go to and the idiot manager there chuckles when people ask about games they don't have in stock. So he goes to mention this out loud and sorta in my direction:

"Hahahaha. If people don't pre-order the game, they're not going to get it! Heheheheh."

*Actual quote*

So I'm thinking to myself (cause I don't really care to argue with this idiot), "What about your walk in sales?" I guess all they care about is pushing pre-orders and GI subscriptions.

Anyway, I only shop there to take advantage of their Buy 2 Get 1 Free deals they always seem to run on X-Box and PS2 games. At least that is a good deal.

[starfox316]

Yeah, it's getting harder and harder to find solid stores that even know what carts look like anymore. I have a few places around that I can shop at (closest is about 20 miles) that actually sell games older than ps2, but I have over a dozen crappy stores within that same radius that sell nothing but current stuff. It's kind of sad about those crappy, low quality chains buying out stores that were actually good. My beloved FuncoLand fell by the wayside and is now a cookie-cutter Gamestop with nothing inspiring or old school in it at all (Gamecube almost seems retro to these people). It's just the way it goes though, i guess.

[ryborg]

I don't even go to chain game stores for classic (N64 and back) stuff. I am lucky enough to have great thrift stores and one or two indie stores in my area to make up for whatever I can't find (or don't want to pay) on ebay.

[Graham Mitchell]

While I agree with your sentiments, DWJ, this is pretty old news. Classic stuff has gotten really gobbled up over the last 3 or 4 years, ever since the EB Games/GS conglomerate decided to stop carrying classic games and systems. The more indie stores that still had stuff left have gotten really picked through, and they don't really make much of an effort to restock; they might be denying trade-ins on older merchandise. But there are still some good stores out there. Pink Godzilla in Seattle is an amazing place, and Joe's new store is supposedly awesome, though I probably won't ever get to see it.

It's been a pretty accepted fact around here that if you want to buy classic stuff, you can't find it in the wild anymore. Ebay or other auction sites are just where the market is now. It sucks because I think in a lot of ways it makes the whole hobby more expensive and less convenient for everybody, but this is how it is now.

Don't forget DP has it's own buying and selling forum. People put quality stuff up there that's been generally well taken care of.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

Thats my point! Why have we become so reliant on the internet?! Why cant any of these stores take the time and get classics in to sell!? While I like the net, and surfing it for good deals... I still like the traditional human interactions at the Video Game store!

We should not have to stand for this!

[vintagegamecrazy]

I work with a former GS employee and he said in its not a preorder or mag subscription they just dont care.

[Graham Mitchell]

Thats my point! Why have we become so reliant on the internet?! Why cant any of these stores take the time and get classics in to sell!? While I like the net, and surfing it for good deals... I still like the traditional human interactions at the Video Game store!

We should not have to stand for this!

Hey, man, so would I. But the shit just doesn't sell well enough for these huge corporations allow it to take up shelf space. On top of that, the collectors bought all the good stuff when the getting was good in the 90's, and they don't resell that stuff, thus the bins get full of Maddens and SMB/Duck Hunts and never get supplemented with any quality games causing the stock to sit there for years. Ebay is probably responsible for killing a lot of retail classic game sales in the first place. I don't think a lot of males enjoy shopping so much, and if they go on ebay they can get what they want and not risk coming home empty-handed because the store didn't have anything of interest.

It bums me out, but our sentimental corner of the internet doesn't set the trends in this country. Money does, and I'd probably bet that classic game sales cannot compete with PS2 shovelware in the large-scale industry these days.

[Mark III]

You don't see a good selection of classic games in independent stores anymore because people are realizing their games are actually worth money and just selling them on ebay. The days when a store owner could offer a buck or two on NES games and flip them for a few bucks more is pretty much dead. If they want a decent selection, they're going to offer good prices for trade ins to compete with ebay and will in turn have to sell the games for market value. This tends to scare off a lot of collectors anyways, as the general consensus seems to be that game stores should have lower than market prices or else they're just greedy. So even though some stores may want to stock classics they either don't bother or else offer next to nothing in trade and inflate the prices so that what little comes in makes an absolutely killer profit. There's two local chains in my city, one has a big selection and does the fair trade in to sell for market value. The other is the buy it for nothing and inlate the hell out of it variety.

[jcalder8]

Its because there is no money in it. I'm sure its possible for everyone to find things in the wild its just not what they want. Nobody wants SMB/DH for the 35th time or Atari Pac-man. Well thats the same for stores. How much can EB/GS sell a SMB/DH for maybe a buck but it'll cost them probably 3. Also how much should you give for one. Anything under a buck and they'll lose money with the cards they use.

If there was money to be made they would still do it but looking at the size of the stores which do you think makes them more money 360 games or NES games. Now there are stores such as DP which specialize in classic games, now I'm sure you're going to say then it proves that there is money to be made. Well in the right location there is some yes. Also as word spreads about your store buying old games you'll attract more. This wouldn't work for chain stores because there are too many of them and the gems that I'm sure come in to DP at least a couple times a week would be spread out across a state when looking at a chain of stores.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

One game store I visit gave me some insight into the "modern gaming" scene... $0.17 profit for every Wii they sell.... some profit margin in the new stuff.

[horseboy]

One game store I visit gave me some insight into the "modern gaming" scene... $0.17 profit for every Wii they sell.... some profit margin in the new stuff.

That isn't the point. Most game systems in the last 10 years sell for MUCH less than they cost to be manufactured. Sony lost hundreds and hundreds of dollars on every Playstation and PS2 sold for the first several years of each. They were both financial successes for Sony though. This is because of the massive profits they make on software. I am pretty sure the same applies to the retail stores in this situation. Software is where the money is.

As far as those stores selling the classics... it just makes no sense financially. They can either use shelf space for the Wii, PS2/3, Xbox/360, etc. games that they sell hundreds of for a big profit, or they can use it for NES and Atari games that they would sell 5 or 6 of a week for a total of $3 profit. The decision is easy. We are a niche market, and like it or not, they have no reason to cater to us.

If you think your local economy could support a classic gaming store, then start one up. The overhead would be pretty low compared to just about any other business. In my hometown we have a place called Game Xchange. They sell everything NES to PS3 (although they have dropped stuff like the Saturn recently and are way too pricey for my taste). We have a Gamestop and an EB games as well, but Game Xchange has survived by catering to the to the old school crowd. The Game Xchange in my hometown is the World Headquarters, and they have expanded to something like 50 or 60 stores nationwide.

[ryborg]

One game store I visit gave me some insight into the "modern gaming" scene... $0.17 profit for every Wii they sell.... some profit margin in the new stuff.

That's a bad example because software is incredibly more profitable than hardware for stores.

[Blackcrow]

I work with a former GS employee and he said in its not a preorder or mag subscription they just dont care.

Maybe at his store. The one I worked at thats all we did was to get people to preorder and subscriptions, I always liked to walk into the gamestop see they were sold out of "x" game and head over to wall-mart and find 10+ copies sitting there.

As for finding a store that has the classic games. Good luck, I drive 40 miles just to get to an area that has a flea market that doesn't just sell fruit, and western wear, or the music.

So if anyone knows any places I can look in Northern California that isn't Denio's, would be great help. :) Thanks in advance

[CartCollector]

One game store I visit gave me some insight into the "modern gaming" scene... $0.17 profit for every Wii they sell.... some profit margin in the new stuff.

Yes, but each (just-released $50/$60 US) title they sell brings in about $10-$15 in profit. (Secrets of the Game Business p. 22). And retailers have about 200%-300% mark-up on used games. So it's not really hardware sales that are keeping chains afloat, it's the game sales.

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

While its not a representative example, it is still one to say the least.

As far as starting my own store, I have a career already that I am pretty happy with (Submarine Officer in the Navy).

I think that the profits for the classics are higher than most people are giving the market credit for. A few motivated people could have a very successful run with the classics, Game Over! in Yulee Florida is a prime example. A good selection of commons, uncommons, and rares for the classics as well as next gen stuff and they are always busy. For everyones info, Yulee is in the middle of BFE in North Florida.

[Trebuken]

The stores do not pay enough for older games. They'll give you $.50 or less for most Genesis and SNES games for example (if they take them at all)> People will not sell at that point, but instead keep it. Even preowned DVD"s are starting to fall into this rutwhere they just won't pay you enough. YOu either trade it in cheap or you keep it as you have very few choices of where to sell it. They then sell it for ten times what they paid you for it and blame it on overhead, shrink, etc.

The only way is to do it yourself. Take out an add in the paper, buy everything you can and then resell it yourself online. I'd do this but my current job keeps me too busy.

I've considered having a business card created and asking the stores to give it to anyone wishing to offload some classic stuff, but I've got too much to do already...

[Rob2600]

I worked for a major video game chain for several years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. There is very little profit margin on new video games and practically no profit margin on new consoles. That's why we were trained to always push used games, used consoles, extended warranties, accessories (controllers, memory cards, etc.), player's guides, and magazine subscriptions. Those items have a much higher profit margin.

If a customer wanted to buy a game, I had to ask if he wanted the player's guide. I was supposed to offer him 20% off the price of the guide, but first I'd see if he'd buy it at full price. If he did, then great...my store's sales figures would be a tiny bit higher. If he didn't, I'd offer him the 20% off and make it seem like I was doing him a favor. That trick usually worked because customers like to feel special and like to receive special treatment...and the profit margin on player's guides was so high that it still worked in the store's favor.

I also had to ask him if he needed any memory cards. Also, if the game featured a two-player mode or four-player mode, I'd offer additional controllers. On top of that, I also had a quota of Game Doctors, so I'd let customers know that if they had any CDs, DVDs, or video games that were too scratched to work properly, they could spend a mere $30 on a Game Doctor and fix them all instead of spending hundreds of dollars replacing them with new ones.

As an incentive, we received a dollar or two for every extended warranty or Game Doctor we sold. Some months, I'd sell over two dozen Game Doctors and over 50 extended warranties, which would result in an additional $100+ in my paycheck.

Is this interesting? Do you want me to write more?

[James8BitStar]

Ya know what?

Personally, I've always kinda thought that the problem with "finding stuff in the wild" was more due to the prevalence of selling online. I've always honestly accepted that Gamestop is a new-games-only place--though all I've bought from them recently is used copies of the James Bond Ultimate Edition boxed sets ($30 apiece!)

Near where I live, there was this store called Sue's Pawn Shop. First time I went in there, I was totally blown away by their selection of NES, Genesis, SNES, and even a few Sega CD and Saturn games (they also had a Master System game mixed in with the Genny titles). In fact, this store is where my first Sega CD and selection of games (including Lunar) came from. It was, basically, old-school heaven if you liked the systems they featured (they also had a limited selection of GB and GG games by the way). It was like, I could go there and always find something awesome, rare, or both. Including a whole lot of AVE games for the NES.

Almost as good was a once-a-month flea market held a little ways down the street. When I first discovered that place, every month when I went there they would have a whole lot of people selling games for nearly every system imaginable. Once, during holiday season, my dad took me there and they had this huge booth of games with a lot of VHS movies besides (lots of 80s cartoons!) This was the first time I had ever seen a TurboCD game. That, too, was heaven, and gave me something to look foreward to.

Then things started to change. Sue's brought me a lot of good hauls, particularly allowing me to round out my RPG collection (got a complete Phantasy Star II there, among a bazillion other things), but as time passed I noticed their games selection seemed to be shrinking. After awhile, they no longer carried Sega CD or Saturn games. Then their Genesis games hit the crudder--they still carry them, but now their selection consists almost entirely of Sports games now. Last time I was there, this was true for the SNES as well. The NES still has a wide selection of genres, but now they simply don't have as many games--they used to have so much that they had to put a few in with the Genesis games, but now the top of the NES shelf is taken up by movies.

And that Flea Market? Months down the road, me and a friend noticed that there seemed to be less and less game sellers, and the few times we did spot one they were only selling modern stuff, with maybe a pitiable selection of older games on the side. It got to the point where anyone selling games at all was a once-in-a-blue-moon occurence. Finally the building was bought, shut down, and converted into a college or something.

The last place I felt in heaven at was this store in Jacksonville called Gamez 4 Less or something like that, but its a long way away from where I live so I can't really go there often--in fact I've only been there once. And I don't know if that place is even still there or whether or not its become part of the GameStop conglomerate.

Anyway, I mentioned to a guy at Sue's that they have less games than they used to. He answered, "I guess they just realized they can get more money selling them on Ebay!"

Curse that Ebay. Its now become my one source of sustainence.

[8-bitNesMan]

FUCK EBAY! There, I feel much better now.

[Player-2]

As a gamestore owner for fifteen years...of a half-dozen stores....let me tell you bluntly: the worst customer is the collector.
I promise you that he knows more than you, will tell you for hours how much he knows, and will get offended when you have to get back to work to try to make some money. He will also quickly feel cheated when you charge a market value price for an item that has been professionally tested and warrantied....even though he has been looking for that item for years. Or he will play with it at your store, only to run to the net to save $3. Almost without exception, he will go to great lengths to prove that he is much more knowledgable (in his tiny little area of collecting) than are any of the employees (those people who must know about ALL the stuff).
Part 2: there are many fewer "collector customers" per square mile than casual customers. A casual customer is one who buys easily available items for a regular price.....without hours of time involved. They are much more common and much easier to please, and hence, mandate that a store owner meet their needs.
For those offended.....have a good day!

[erehwon]

I haven't been collecting for very long. It started at the same time that I started garage saling. That is the main source for classic games. My area is very bad for classic gaming. The only thrift stores are the several goodwill and salvation army stores. The Gamecrazy stores have been pretty well picked clean. The only independent game store is McVans. Their stuff is pretty expensive, but my main beef with them is that they charge you to trade games.

[XYXZYZ]

As a gamestore owner for fifteen years...

That reminds me, any idea when that North Memorial Parkway store is going to open up again?

[Vinnysdad]

I worked for a major video game chain for several years in the late 1990s and early 2000s. There is very little profit margin on new video games and practically no profit margin on new consoles. That's why we were trained to always push used games, used consoles, extended warranties, accessories (controllers, memory cards, etc.), player's guides, and magazine subscriptions. Those items have a much higher profit margin.

If a customer wanted to buy a game, I had to ask if he wanted the player's guide. I was supposed to offer him 20% off the price of the guide, but first I'd see if he'd buy it at full price. If he did, then great...my store's sales figures would be a tiny bit higher. If he didn't, I'd offer him the 20% off and make it seem like I was doing him a favor. That trick usually worked because customers like to feel special and like to receive special treatment...and the profit margin on player's guides was so high that it still worked in the store's favor.

I also had to ask him if he needed any memory cards. Also, if the game featured a two-player mode or four-player mode, I'd offer additional controllers. On top of that, I also had a quota of Game Doctors, so I'd let customers know that if they had any CDs, DVDs, or video games that were too scratched to work properly, they could spend a mere $30 on a Game Doctor and fix them all instead of spending hundreds of dollars replacing them with new ones.

As an incentive, we received a dollar or two for every extended warranty or Game Doctor we sold. Some months, I'd sell over two dozen Game Doctors and over 50 extended warranties, which would result in an additional $100+ in my paycheck.

Is this interesting? Do you want me to write more?



Not interesting one bit. This is the reason I try not to go to big chains unless a good sale is happening. I hate being bombarded with crap like this. If I wanted a controller or guide or any other crap I would ask for it or bring it up to the register with my other stuff. I have to stand there for 5 minutes while they make a sales pitch before they ring my stuff up. Ridicolous.

[Player-2]

That reminds me, any idea when that North Memorial Parkway store is going to open up again?

Was supposed to open June 1. Our signs are up, but an SUV ran through the front of the builiding to twenty feet inside....glass, bricks, two stores of doors all destroyed. Could be a couple months now. Next time you drive bt, check out the 8 4x8 sheets of plywood. Whata a mess!! Reopens ASAP.

[XYXZYZ]

Was supposed to open June 1. Our signs are up, but an SUV ran through the front of the builiding to twenty feet inside....glass, bricks, two stores of doors all destroyed. Could be a couple months now. Next time you drive bt, check out the 8 4x8 sheets of plywood. Whata a mess!! Reopens ASAP.

Awsome, I'll keep an eye out.

[Rob2600]

Not interesting one bit. This is the reason I try not to go to big chains unless a good sale is happening. I hate being bombarded with crap like this. If I wanted a controller or guide or any other crap I would ask for it or bring it up to the register with my other stuff. I have to stand there for 5 minutes while they make a sales pitch before they ring my stuff up.

I know, you're right. That's why I wanted to see if anyone was interested in more of my behind-the-scenes insider information.

[The_4th_Survivor]

As a gamestore owner for fifteen years...of a half-dozen stores....let me tell you bluntly: the worst customer is the collector.
I promise you that he knows more than you, will tell you for hours how much he knows, and will get offended when you have to get back to work to try to make some money. He will also quickly feel cheated when you charge a market value price for an item that has been professionally tested and warrantied....even though he has been looking for that item for years. Or he will play with it at your store, only to run to the net to save $3. Almost without exception, he will go to great lengths to prove that he is much more knowledgable (in his tiny little area of collecting) than are any of the employees (those people who must know about ALL the stuff).
Part 2: there are many fewer "collector customers" per square mile than casual customers. A casual customer is one who buys easily available items for a regular price.....without hours of time involved. They are much more common and much easier to please, and hence, mandate that a store owner meet their needs.
For those offended.....have a good day!

Wow.

It seems like you only experienced the 'jerk' type of game collector.

I feel that I'm more of the 'happy' game collectors that does not feel offended when you or your employees have to get back to work, or has to mark up prices on games ($0.25 'credit' paid to a customer for a cart only SNES Super Mario RPG with a re-stickered, marked up price of $34.99?! I saw this once).

I also feel that I don't have the need to show everyone my 'expertise' in my 'little' area of collecting, as I know better than to share a passionate feeling with people that are pretty much there to work their shift at a store.

I used to work at a game retail/rental store myself and I specifically remember one of my 'holier-than-thou-I'm-better-than-you' managers regretting hiring me as well as another 'game collector', because we were deemed to be too 'geeky' and we didn't take the job serious enough.

Forget the fact that I hardly ever made mistakes with the register totals, always had a high sales/rentals record and treated the customers like gold, no matter what kind of a day I was having.

The store manager still regretted hiring me and my co-worker because he thought we weren't 'cool' enough. I mean, isn't it a great idea to hire someone that actually knows what your products are about?

Yes, stores are in business to make money, I can understand that. I also witnessed many of the instances you pointed out, such as the differences between the 'casual' and 'collector' types of gamers.

I guess it just boils down to human character, since there's really no such thing as bad or good in this world.

What I'm saying is that a person that looks like a saint in one's eyes could be a demon in another's eyes.

[smork]

As a gamestore owner for fifteen years...of a half-dozen stores....let me tell you bluntly: the worst customer is the collector.
I promise you that he knows more than you, will tell you for hours how much he knows, and will get offended when you have to get back to work to try to make some money. He will also quickly feel cheated when you charge a market value price for an item that has been professionally tested and warrantied....even though he has been looking for that item for years. Or he will play with it at your store, only to run to the net to save $3. Almost without exception, he will go to great lengths to prove that he is much more knowledgable (in his tiny little area of collecting) than are any of the employees (those people who must know about ALL the stuff).
Part 2: there are many fewer "collector customers" per square mile than casual customers. A casual customer is one who buys easily available items for a regular price.....without hours of time involved. They are much more common and much easier to please, and hence, mandate that a store owner meet their needs.
For those offended.....have a good day!

Yep, collectors can be a lot of know-it-all dicks. I know I try hard to repress my dickish impulses when visiting stores :)

Casual gamers have to be the focus of stores -- there are more of them by leaps and bounds! And look at the raw numbers of amount of consoles sold for recent generations. There are TONS more PS2s and XBOXes out there than Genesis systems. Not to mention by a large margin people prefer newer games. We're just a loud minority.

Some people like antique radios, most prefer a high capacity MP3 jukebox with an FM tuner. Time passes!

[James8BitStar]

Hey, question. I never get why some people tend to think that Gamestop and EB are "so evil" in the first place. What's up with that? I've never had the "Sales Pitch" issues people here are describing.

[CartCollector]

Every time I enter one GameStop near me, they always say, "Hi! Welcome to GameStop! Brought any trade-ins?" They do this to EVERY CUSTOMER that enters their doors. Even if you don't have a game in hand or a bag that could be carrying games, they ask you. Would someone be stupid enough to forget their trade-ins in their car?
Also, if you bring a used game up to the counter, they say, "You could get 10% off every used game with a membership to (whatever-it-is). Would you like to sign up now?"

[jcalder8]

Every time I enter one GameStop near me, they always say, "Hi! Welcome to GameStop! Brought any trade-ins?" They do this to EVERY CUSTOMER that enters their doors. Even if you don't have a game in hand or a bag that could be carrying games, they ask you. Would someone be stupid enough to forget their trade-ins in their car?
Also, if you bring a used game up to the counter, they say, "You could get 10% off every used game with a membership to (whatever-it-is). Would you like to sign up now?"
Why does that make them evil?
Its not like they do this by choice. They are trying to keep their jobs.

[horseboy]

Why does that make them evil?
Its not like they do this by choice. They are trying to keep their jobs.

It isn't evil either way. You can hate the place because it annoys you, but saying it is evil is just not correct.

[CartCollector]

Should we split this side topic? It would probably get a lot of posts.