NES classic series VS. original carts

[Nero 99]

Of the classic nes series i have Metroid, Zelda 1, and zelda 2. I also have them all in their original versions and I dont know if it's just me but the Nes classic series just dont play anywhere close to as good as the originals. does anybody else feel this way or is it just me?

[miaandjohnrule]

It's just you.

[DefaultGen]

.....

[GizmoGC]

My Players Choice version of Luigi's Mansion is crappy compared to the original version.

[dlopez9069]

THe newer versions are "improved" but it takes away if you ask me. You really have to pay attention but if you really like the original you will see the difference. my vote yes the carts are better!

[roushimsx]

I'd trade for one to post comparison screens NES vs. Gameboy Player but i'm sure it's been done *hmm*

Emulation for both systems is at a level where it'd be perfectly fine to just go that route, with the added bonus of generating cleaner screenshots (as opposed to poor quality digicam pictures) and even videos (YouTube fodder!).

I'd love to see a nice, in depth breakdown of the differences between the original releases and the NES Classics releases.

[retroman]

i like the Nes Carts better...if not just for the controler alone.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Of the classic nes series i have Metroid, Zelda 1, and zelda 2. I also have them all in their original versions and I dont know if it's just me but the Nes classic series just dont play anywhere close to as good as the originals. does anybody else feel this way or is it just me?

It's not just you. The official NES emulator works well but it sometimes slows down. Not to mention, since the GBA's screen is slightly less tall, you get this really weird effect on the screen. It's hard to explain, but it looks like... trying to run a PAL game on an NTSC TV. That's as close as I can get.

[DefaultGen]

.....

[Nero 99]

thanks DefaultGen for the side by side comparison but i dont see how having bleached out colors ,a stretched screen and uglier sprites make the gba version better lol! i go with the original carts all the way!

[Mobius]

Are you sure the color difference with the GBA version isn't just because of the emulator? Though I suppose they could have upped the brightness with consideration for the original GBA's really dark screen...

[sharp]

Ok so this wasn't like the most in depth test ever:

Screenie 1: The NES version is about 10 million times brighter than the GBA version. The GBA version also is stretched to fit the GBA screen. Eww. Also the little black story screen appeared way faster on the GBA version than on the NES version.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7199/zelda1wn0.png

Sceenie 2: The graphics are indeed better on the NES but comparing a console to a handheld in terms of graphics isn't fair, the only reason the GBA version is limited is because the GBA screen isn't a TV screen.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8176/zelda2ak3.png

Sceenie 3: The old man is ugly on GBA, it looks like a different sprite but it could just be GBA hardware sucking again. The flames are animated in the GBA version unlike the NES version. I'm sure there's tons of little crap like this throughout the game.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/345/zelda3dm7.png

Conclusion: Lol GBA.

As sson as I have my GB Player I'm gonna check this out with grabbing screenshots from dc and NES with my TV-card. I think it can also be bad emulation from the emulator.

[Aussie2B]

I don't know if every game was handled exactly the same, but I know that for at least some of them it isn't a matter of stretching the graphics. Rather, they removed every third or so horizontal row of pixels.

[Lady Jaye]

How about the emulation on the GCN Zelda Collectors' disk? How does it compare to them?

[8bitdude]

You can't get better than the original carts.

[XYXZYZ]

You can't get better than the original carts.

The original carts will always have that certain something that no clone can reproduce. But sometimes the clones have added value, Classic Series Metroid for example has a save feature in addition to the password system.

And I don't really like the idea of comparing an NES emulator to a GBA emulator. Someone take pictures of a TV with an NES running Zelda, and a GBA running CS Zelda. I'd do it, but I'm out of webspace to host them. That, and they'd be real dark and blurry and stuff.

[Jorpho]

But sometimes the clones have added value, Classic Series Metroid for example has a save feature in addition to the password system.

Technically, the FDS version of Metroid did that first.


My Players Choice version of Luigi's Mansion is crappy compared to the original version.

Er, what?

[fergojisan]

Jesus, I thought this thread was about the original NES carts vs. the reissue carts with the red stripe. I need to get out more. :P

[roushimsx]

As sson as I have my GB Player I'm gonna check this out with grabbing screenshots from dc and NES with my TV-card. I think it can also be bad emulation from the emulator.

For the hell of it, I decided to do a second opinion using a slightly different setup. Nestopia was used for the NES (TV aspect ratio turned on, no additional filters, AspiringSquire's NES Palette) and VirtualBoyAdvance was used for the GBA (1x screensize).

http://images.roushimsx.com/Zelda_01_Title.png
http://images.roushimsx.com/Zelda_02_Register.png
http://images.roushimsx.com/Zelda_03_OldMan.png
http://images.roushimsx.com/Zelda_04_Overworld.png

Not sure why No$'s palette is so much darker... I'm reasonably sure the game uses a bright palette to compensate for the shitty screen on the non-SP GBA.

[bangtango]

Hmm. I remember reading somewhere during the dying days of the Game Boy Color that Nintendo was supposed to release The Legend of Zelda on the Game Boy Color but they cancelled it because they couldn't get it to look right on the screen. Considering there were Zelda fans who griped about that, it was a smart move to put it on the GBA and I am sure they did the best they could.

[idrougge]

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7199/zelda1wn0.png
Screenie 1: The NES version is about 10 million times brighter than the GBA version. The GBA version also is stretched to fit the GBA screen. Eww. Also the little black story screen appeared way faster on the GBA version than on the NES version.


This is why people shouldn't use emulators seriously, at least if they don't know anything about the original system.
Do you really think that the NES display is almost square on a TV screen? It is in your emulator, but it certainly isn't on a TV.

[idrougge]

Jesus, I thought this thread was about the original NES carts vs. the reissue carts with the red stripe. I need to get out more. :P

Actually, I thought exactly the same thing.

[roushimsx]

Do you really think that the NES display is almost square on a TV screen? It is in your emulator, but it certainly isn't on a TV.

I used to criticize this point a lot, but it has really been completely moot for a while now. Sure, the pixels were non-square and need to be stretched to 4:3 to achieve an aspect ratio equal to what we had on a TV, but in the day and age where a large number of people have widescreen tvs and care more about filling the empty space than maintaining a precisely accurate aspect ratio, it's become apparent that only the anal people are concerned with maintaining the game's presentation exactly as they remember it. Hell, there's a good number of different methods used to stretch the images to minimize distortion in various points in the frame, too.

That's what makes emulators so great; you (generally) have the option to manipulate the image any damn way you want. If you don't know the difference between 4:3 and whatever aspect ratio the game is kicking out, then who cares? Plenty of CPS2 kiddies believe and support the idea of playing CPS2 games in widescreen, and if that's what makes 'em happy then let 'em. You're free to use alternate palettes, adjust scanlines to your liking (or eliminate 'em!), add simulated NTSC noise, or do a super clean upscaling to any resolution you want. Add HQ4x if you don't like those hard edges or don't if you like counting individual pixels. Go crazy.

The important thing in the above screenshots is that all of the pixels are represented. That's another great thing about emulation, you get everything (which catches some people off guard, such as with Super Mario Brothers 3 and various Neo Geo games) and you get them (depending on the emulator) without any interference that'd be generated from the junky output (and without having to do an RGB mod). If you want to change the aspect ratio on one then go for it and post another comparison (save in PNG ftw, though!).


Actually, I thought exactly the same thing.

If it weren't for carefully reading and rereading DefaultGen's reply, I probably would have said something like GizmoGC.

[MarioMania]

Hmm. I remember reading somewhere during the dying days of the Game Boy Color that Nintendo was supposed to release The Legend of Zelda on the Game Boy Color but they cancelled it because they couldn't get it to look right on the screen. Considering there were Zelda fans who griped about that, it was a smart move to put it on the GBA and I am sure they did the best they could.

I heard the 3rd Games in the Oracle Series would be the Orinagal Zelda ..But it got canned, The GBA Zelda is like playing the game on a HDTV

[Kitsune Sniper]

Those No$GBA screens are using the original GBA brightness level, aren't they? That's why they look like crap.

Try using the GBA SP level. I own Metroid and it does NOT look that washed up.

[idrougge]

I used to criticize this point a lot, but it has really been completely moot for a while now. Sure, the pixels were non-square and need to be stretched to 4:3 to achieve an aspect ratio equal to what we had on a TV, but in the day and age where a large number of people have widescreen tvs and care more about filling the empty space than maintaining a precisely accurate aspect ratio, it's become apparent that only the anal people are concerned with maintaining the game's presentation exactly as they remember it.

Don't get too philosophical here. This thread is decidedly anal already, and when someone tries to demonstrate that the picture is stretched on the GBA, by having a side-by-side comparison with a picture that is stretched in the opposite direction, he's making an untrue argument.

[roushimsx]

Don't get too philosophical here. This thread is decidedly anal already, and when someone tries to demonstrate that the picture is stretched on the GBA, by having a side-by-side comparison with a picture that is stretched in the opposite direction, he's making an untrue argument.

Well ok then, let's have some fun with this instead of bitching about the aspect ratio of screenshots!

It appears that they trimmed off a bunch of pixels from the top (10 pixels removed from the dead space above the map) and a few from the bottom, resized the status icons up there (the key is now 6 pixels tall instead of 8 and there's no space between it and the bomb, for instance) and used a smaller font (5px instead of 7px). It looks like the tiles for the background received touchups and were readjusted while the character sprites seem to be either the same ones or oh-so-slightly altered. Changes like that and the palette are positive ones that they obviously spent a good deal of time on hashing out (rather than just doing a quick and dirty emulate+stretch to fill screen).

...anyone bored enough to count the tiles to see if there's the same number of tiles horizontally across the screen?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Well ok then, let's have some fun with this instead of bitching about the aspect ratio of screenshots!

It appears that they trimmed off a bunch of pixels from the top (10 pixels removed from the dead space above the map) and a few from the bottom, resized the status icons up there (the key is now 6 pixels tall instead of 8 and there's no space between it and the bomb, for instance) and used a smaller font (5px instead of 7px). It looks like the tiles for the background received touchups and were readjusted while the character sprites seem to be either the same ones or oh-so-slightly altered. Changes like that and the palette are positive ones that they obviously spent a good deal of time on hashing out (rather than just doing a quick and dirty emulate+stretch to fill screen).

...anyone bored enough to count the tiles to see if there's the same number of tiles horizontally across the screen?

I think they just squished the screen a bit so it would fit. It doesn't look as horrible as Pocketnes, though.

[idrougge]

I also did some messing around. I found a screengrab from Zelda, and it does have virtually the same aspect ratio as the one posted before. I admit defeat, since apparently the NTSC NES has such a square aspect ratio. Being grown up with a PAL system, I'm used to seeing the display reduced to a thin strip in the middle of the screen.

The GBA version seems to have cut 16 pixels at the top and bottom of the screen.