Manhunt 2

[leicamaster]

So has rockstar finally decided? I dont mind playing a Ao game on my Wii. The only problem is that if they take the Ao rating and change it to M it takes away all the goodness. Rockstars only choice is to release it on the PC/Mac.

[AMG]

Rockstar will most likely take the game and clean it up some, dropping the rating down to M.

[PapaStu]

So has rockstar finally decided? I dont mind playing a Ao game on my Wii.

You might not mind, but Nintendo and Sony do. They will not release a AO game on their systems. The game is going to get re-worked somehow if they want it to get a release at all. The PC market wont cover all the costs for development on everything else and RockStar is in pretty dire financial straights right now so they can't afford to not get this game out (especially with all the publicity its gotten).

[Promophile]

You might not mind, but Nintendo and Sony do. They will not release a AO game on their systems. The game is going to get re-worked somehow if they want it to get a release at all. The PC market wont cover all the costs for development on everything else and RockStar is in pretty dire financial straights right now so they can't afford to not get this game out (especially with all the publicity its gotten).

Yep Rockstar and the rest of the game industry doesn't want another "Hot Coffee" PR problem. Until the current generation of politicans fade away, and people who grew up playing video games (and still do) come into power, we'll have to deal with the "protect the kiddies, all video games are for kids" stigmata.

[G-Boobie]

the weird thing is, if you listen to any of the gaming mag podcasts or troll the videogame website boards, its pretty clear that Manhunt 2 was less disturbing and violent than its predecessor. We can't be sure without playing it ourselves of course, but it looks like the AO rating may be a political move made by the ERSB to publicly show it has teeth.

This may end up being almost poetic justice form the ESRB perspective, since Rockstar has been the origin point for a HUGE amount of the current negative stigma videogaming has in the political zeitgeist. WHos to say a little payback wasnt a factor? Just a thought :)

G-Boobie, out.

[jajaja]

Until the current generation of politicans fade away, and people who grew up playing video games (and still do) come into power, we'll have to deal with the "protect the kiddies, all video games are for kids" stigmata.


Who decides which rating a game should get?

Each ESRB rating is based on the consensus of at least three specially trained raters who view content independently of one another. ESRB raters work on a part-time basis and are recruited from one of the most culturally diverse populations - the New York metropolitan area. They must be adults, and typically have experience with children through their profession, education or by being parents or caregivers themselves. They are not required to have advanced skills as computer and video game players since their job is to review content and determine its age-appropriateness, not to assess how challenging or entertaining a particular game is to play. To ensure their objectivity ESRB raters are kept anonymous, and they are not permitted to have any ties to or connections with any individuals or entities in the computer/video game industry.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/faq.jsp#14

There are also more info on the page how rating works. Its not just some random politicians who set the rating because they think/mean the games are bad for kids. So it doesnt change anything if new politicians come into the picture, its not they who rate the games anyway.

[G-Boobie]

...take the current debacle in New York for example. If there's enough furor and hype over the supposed 'videogames violence problem', then politicians WILL get involved. The ESRB is only a stop-gap, I think... Much like movies, the government will get involved, and probably soon.

Videogaming as an industry has almost no lobbying power, and only negative stigma in the eyes of the media and 'unwashed masses'. Its a political sitting duck, especially since the laws that bind legal decisions to the first amendment are getting hazier and hazier.

Anyone want to bet money on videogames being government regulated in two years or less?

G-Boobie, out.

[chicnstu]

the weird thing is, if you listen to any of the gaming mag podcasts or troll the videogame website boards, its pretty clear that Manhunt 2 was less disturbing and violent than its predecessor. We can't be sure without playing it ourselves of course, but it looks like the AO rating may be a political move made by the ERSB to publicly show it has teeth.

This may end up being almost poetic justice form the ESRB perspective, since Rockstar has been the origin point for a HUGE amount of the current negative stigma videogaming has in the political zeitgeist. WHos to say a little payback wasnt a factor? Just a thought :)

G-Boobie, out.


Did the first Manhunt have something similar to yanking a dudes nuts off with pliers?

Either I read it wrong or IGN was joking.

EDIT: Here it is:


Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use a saw blade and cut upward into a foe's groin and buttocks, motioning forward and backward with the Wii remote as you go.

LINK (http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html)

[G-Boobie]

...Did you play the first Manhunt? The entire game form beginning to end was utterly twisted. Killing guys by throttling them with plastic bags, THROWING a badguys severed head into view of another bad guy to freak them out, the whole gimp thing... If that game wasnt AO, then NOTHING is.

I suppose that I should have better elucidated... The violence in Manhunt 2 is pretty twisted, yes... But I would argue that there are HUNDREDS of games with violence equal to or greater than what we've seen in Manhunt 2.

There is no reason that Manhunt 2 should have gotten an AO rating outside of political reasons and media hype. There were parent teacher groups and politicians going after the game before anyone had even seen it.

[chicnstu]

...Did you play the first Manhunt? The entire game form beginning to end was utterly twisted. Killing guys by throttling them with plastic bags, THROWING a badguys severed head into view of another bad guy to freak them out, the whole gimp thing... If that game wasnt AO, then NOTHING is.

I suppose that I should have better elucidated... The violence in Manhunt 2 is pretty twisted, yes... But I would argue that there are HUNDREDS of games with violence equal to or greater than what we've seen in Manhunt 2.

There is no reason that Manhunt 2 should have gotten an AO rating outside of political reasons and media hype. There were parent teacher groups and politicians going after the game before anyone had even seen it.

I have played Manhunt, but not all the way through. I'll be getting to that game after I finish Disgaea 2, Star Ocean, and Radiata Stories.

I'm not saying it does or doesn't deserve a certain rating but could you list at least 10 games with violence at the same level as Manhunt 2? It surprises me that I can't think of even one game as violent or more violent than Manhunt/Manhunt2 and you can think of HUNDREDS.

[hbkprm]

y'all still debating bout this mess

[G-Boobie]

You want ten games as violent as Manhunt? Sure.

1) Crusader 1 and 2
2) Mortal Kombat and its fifty million sequels
3) Condemned: Criminal Origins
4) Doom 3
5) Infernal: The Generic Hell vs. Heaven shooter
6) Fallout 2
7) Legacy of Kain
8) Vampire: Bloodlines
9) Quake 4
10) Hell Knight
I've got more, too.... GTA, Fatal Frame II, Gears of War, Bloodrayne(ugh, but still)...

Heres a far more entertaining quiz: Name ten games WITHOUT violence that aren't puzzle games. Good luck.

My point here is even though there's apparently a nut cutting scene in Manhunt 2, it got an AO rating, whereas apparently setting fire to a town of innocent civilians in Legacy of Kain is OK for Mature, and beating hobos to death with a pipe in condemned is OK for Mature, and killing angels and eventually God in Infernal is OK for Mature, and so on and so forth.

[jajaja]

You want ten games as violent as Manhunt? Sure.

1) Crusader 1 and 2
2) Mortal Kombat and its fifty million sequels
3) Condemned: Criminal Origins
4) Doom 3
5) Infernal: The Generic Hell vs. Heaven shooter
6) Fallout 2
7) Legacy of Kain
8) Vampire: Bloodlines
9) Quake 4
10) Hell Knight
I've got more, too.... GTA, Fatal Frame II, Gears of War, Bloodrayne(ugh, but still)...

Heres a far more entertaining quiz: Name ten games WITHOUT violence that aren't puzzle games. Good luck.

My point here is even though there's apparently a nut cutting scene in Manhunt 2, it got an AO rating, whereas apparently setting fire to a town of innocent civilians in Legacy of Kain is OK for Mature, and beating hobos to death with a pipe in condemned is OK for Mature, and killing angels and eventually God in Infernal is OK for Mature, and so on and so forth.

Alot of these games you mention arent half as violent as Manhunt. Its the detail and method of the killing thats being used and the theme around the game that makes Manhunt rather unique to put it like that, not because of the general killing like tons of other games have. The point in the Manhunt games is to kill in the most horrible ways, what other games is like this? Maybe Postal 2, thats all i can think of right now (altho i've heard its possible to finish the game without killing, dunno if its true, i havnt played it).



Heres a far more entertaining quiz: Name ten games WITHOUT violence that aren't puzzle games. Good luck.

I can list tons of driving games, platformers and adventure games ;)

[Garry Silljo]

Heres a far more entertaining quiz: Name ten games WITHOUT violence that aren't puzzle games. Good luck.


That's easy.

I could do it on other systems but off the top of my head on the NES there is

3 Fisher Price NES games
4 Sesame St. NES games
Barbie
Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?
Mario is Missing.

I could keep going, but I'm bored.

[G-Boobie]

I stand corrected on the 10 violent games front.

However, in regards to the violence in Manhunt, I remain unconvinced. In Crusader, you were rewarded for especially violent kills; it was one of the listed features on the box. In Condemned, one of the features they listed in PR to sell the game was environmental weapons.

And thank you, I'd forgotten about Postal, and its distant cousin State of Emergency(primarily because they were crap). Those are games which absolutely glorify random violence; its all the two games are about. They received Mature ratings. You can play golf with peoples heads, and light crowds of people on fire. You were encouraged and rewarded by both games to do this. I'd rate that up there with Manhunt, which at least was a good game.

I'm not defending or condemning violence in videogames. I think that Rockstar has become a political target, along with the ESRB. I also think that Manhunt 2 received a AO rating in response to the growing pressure on the ESRB to show that it can do its job without government intervention, not because of its violent content. :texaschain:

I would actually argue that violence in games like GTA is a far worse thing than over the top cartoon violence like Manhunt and Postal since its far more subtle and contextual. That could just be me though...

It'll be interesting to see whether games like GTA 4, Fallout 3, and Condemned 2 receive similar treatment. My guess is no.

[boatofcar]

I would actually argue that violence in games like GTA is a far worse thing than over the top cartoon violence like Manhunt

Yeah, the violence in Manhunt is totally cartoon :roll:

[kaedesdisciple]

Rather than make a new thread, I'll just bump this older one since it's right along these lines. Well friends, it looks like RS has to go back to the drawing board, the ESRB has officially slammed Manhunt 2 with an AO rating. I think we all saw this one coming. Story at 11, or at the link below:

http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2007/08/esrb

Retailer and platform developer enforced censorship FTW!

[Rob2600]

Name ten games WITHOUT violence that aren't puzzle games. Good luck.

There are different degrees of violence. Not all games that contain violence are considered violent. It depends on how detailed, realistic, and gratuitous the violence is.

The violence in a game like Super Mario Bros. is far less graphic than the violence in a game like Manhunt. In the Super Mario Bros. series, a simple, cartoony-looking man jumps on simple, cartoony-looking turtles. The animations are quick and simple and lack any gruesome details. Hardly anything in the series is depicted as being realistic and the violence isn't gratuitous. However, Manhunt is designed to be as realistic, detailed, and gruesome as possible.

The Super Mario Bros. games contain violence, but they're not considered violent games. Again, there are different degrees.

[sabre2922]

Anyone want to bet money on videogames being government regulated in two years or less?

G-Boobie, out.

Wouldnt surprise me.

We here in the U.S. have been living in the real "1984/ big brother" era since 2001.

[norkusa]

I still think it's crazy that Nintendo and Sony are so uptight about AO games. They act as if the the only people that play video games are 12 year old children.

I'm an adult and I want adult content in my games. I'm tired of playing PG-13 stuff that's cut back for the kiddies.

[PlasticSolution]

I still think it's crazy that Nintendo and Sony are so uptight about AO games.

What's so crazy about wanting your product to be widely available? It's a business decision, as most major retailers won't stock an AO game. They'd be sacrificing sales to please a small market. It's not worth it. Why not just tone it down a bit, get an M, and everyone's happy?


I'm an adult and I want adult content in my games. I'm tired of playing PG-13 stuff that's cut back for the kiddies.

Resident Evil, GTA, God of War, Manhunt, Condemned, etc. really don't have enough adult content for you?

[Spartacus]

Resident Evil, GTA, God of War, Manhunt, Condemned, etc. really don't have enough adult content for you?

Those aren't adult games. They're children's games rated as acceptable for 17 yr. olds. When you get old enough, 17 seems pretty damn childish.
I think AO games will certainly become a common reality. Once downloading games becomes viable, then brick and mortar squeamishness will become irrelevant.
I still think it was a dumb idea to offer Manhunt 2 on the Wii. And no, I don't think spastically waving a waggle stick had anything to do with it. It's a family friendly and non-gamer console and this type of game would draw more critical scrutiny on the Wii than the PS2. Just my opinion.

[norkusa]

Resident Evil, GTA, God of War, Manhunt, Condemned, etc. really don't have enough adult content for you?

No, they don't. Like Spartacus said, they're still just kids games and there's nothing in them that you couldn't see on cable tv or PG-13 movies.

What's the harm in showing a little T&A in a game? Or someone shooting up heroin or doing coke? It may sound over the top but half the movies you see on the shelves at Best Buy or Wal Mart have similar content. Why is it such a big deal when it's in a video game?

[Rob2600]

Those aren't adult games. They're children's games rated as acceptable for 17 yr. olds. When you get old enough, 17 seems pretty damn childish.

Why do people confuse being irresponsible and gratuitous with being mature? Despite what many teenagers believe, solving puzzles, thinking about consequences, and showing restraint are far better displays of maturity than using drugs, stealing cars, being naked, and torturing people.

[RARusk]

There is something about all of this I have never understood.

You can sit and play Adult Only movies (ie: porn) on a PlayStation 2 all you want but you cannot have an Adult Only game on a PlayStation 2? What is with this double standard? Never made sense to me.

Can somebody explain to me why this double standard exists?