A question about the Dreamcast

[darkhades]

Does anyone know how many games were released for the Dreamcast? I mean offical North American released games. I recently bought a huge lot of Dreamcast games at a Flea Market, and that brought my collection up to 119 games. Just wondering how many more I need for a complete collection.

If this does not belong in the classic gaming section, then my apologies. I wasn't sure if the Dreamcast is considered classic.

[ghostangelofcky]

here you go buddy, one of the great features of this site we call home.

BTW we should have more of these

http://www.digitpress.com/archives/arc00101.htm

[PapaStu]

Ghost Angel got teh link down. Heres some more OCD goodness.

Official Unique releases number at 249. That is including Sonic Adventure LE.

Additional (Re)Releases
Sega All Star Releases =17 (not counting the Round Stickered NFL 2K variant)
Midway's Hot!New! Re-Releases =4 (not counting that 3 of the 4 games that also had Printed Hot!New! booklet variants)
Not For ReSale pack-in's =8
Random known variants =2
Bleems! = 3
American Homebrews = 4 (for the time being, more are scheduled for release)
Games packed with 3rd Party guns in Licensed boxes = 2

That should be it game wise. There are only a handfull of Demo discs, and those are all nigh on impossible to get (outside of the Official Dreamcast Mag ones).

[j_factor]

I don't think the bleemcast releases should be included. They weren't licensed. If you include them, you should probably include Feet of Fury and other GOAT releases while you're at it.

[PapaStu]

I don't think the bleemcast releases should be included. They weren't licensed. If you include them, you should probably include Feet of Fury and other GOAT releases while you're at it.

I didn't include them... but I didn't exclude them. See that 'American Homebrews' part. Thats the GOAT games.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

The reason I wouldn't include the bleemcast discs isn't because they're unlicensed, but because they're not games. They're applications; more like Cheats & Codes or the Gameshark or things like that.

The GOAT store releases certainly should be included, though. Unlicensed games are never left off lists for other systems like the NES (Tengen, Color Dreams, etc.) or Genesis (Accolade, EA). I would also personally also include Last Hope, Dream ParaPara, Strip Poker and the Oh Lucky Day! games since they're all regionless unlicensed releases just like the GOAT Store ones.


...word is bondage...

[DOL_001]

Sega's official US DC games checklist has 248 games but they listed Sega Swirl, which was never released as a stand alone game on the DC, so that's actually 247. If you are including the variants Shenmue LE and Sonic Adventure LE (although I think it's really just a demo) then it's 249.

I consider the number to be 247 because the last 2 are variants and aren't listed on the checklist. I have all 247 plus Shenmue LE, but I can't find a Sonic Adventure LE, let alone justify the price tag.

[j_factor]

I could've sworn there was another LE. DOA2, maybe?

[PapaStu]

I could've sworn there was another LE. DOA2, maybe?

No.

Shenmue and Sonic are it in the NTSC-U region.


Sega's official US DC games checklist has 248 games but they listed Sega Swirl, which was never released as a stand alone game on the DC, so that's actually 247. If you are including the variants Shenmue LE and Sonic Adventure LE (although I think it's really just a demo) then it's 249.

In my opinion the list would be 248 because Shenmue LE has its own SKU and its own ID numbers and was sold seperately, thus making it a seperate release. Doesn't matter if its the same game or not. Sonic LE counts in the grand scheme of things, but for a 'Full Retail' set doesn't because the game was never on shelves to be sold. It was a full game (with some features taken out) not a demo.

[Perkar]

i am in 100% support of Stu's comments. and gosh golly, a complete set looks pretty darn nice ;)



No.

Shenmue and Sonic are it in the NTSC-U region.



In my opinion the list would be 248 because Shenmue LE has its own SKU and its own ID numbers and was sold seperately, thus making it a seperate release. Doesn't matter if its the same game or not. Sonic LE counts in the grand scheme of things, but for a 'Full Retail' set doesn't because the game was never on shelves to be sold. It was a full game (with some features taken out) not a demo.

[GrandAmChandler]

The GOAT store releases certainly should be included, though. Unlicensed games are never left off lists for other systems like the NES (Tengen, Color Dreams, etc.) or Genesis (Accolade, EA). I would also personally also include Last Hope, Dream ParaPara, Strip Poker and the Oh Lucky Day! games since they're all regionless unlicensed releases just like the GOAT Store ones.


...word is bondage...

They are not unlicensed. They are homebrews. They are on CD-Rs, not GD-Rs. 3rd party companies still use the same Dreamcast color scheme and GD-R discs. These homebrews also were released wayyyy after the Dreamcast died, thus all of this making them homebrews.

Read this. http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77339

-GAC-

[Jumpman Jr.]

I think there is 258 of them. I can't remember if that includes all the variants. I don't think it does.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

They are not unlicensed. They are homebrews. They are on CD-Rs, not GD-Rs. 3rd party companies still use the same Dreamcast color scheme and GD-R discs. These homebrews also were released wayyyy after the Dreamcast died, thus all of this making them homebrews.
They're not on CD-Rs, they're pressed CDs with full color inserts. Very professional. They're not on GD-ROMs, but that trying to draw something from that distinction is akin to saying that Accolade releases for the Genesis shouldn't be counted since they used a different cart design from the licensed Genesis games or that Color Dreams NES games don't count because they're not grey.

By "wayyyy after the Dreamcast died" you mean "between one and four years," I assume. Well, games for the 2600, NES, Playstation and many other systems came out just as long and even longer after first party support stopped for those systems, but are still considered part of the system's library. The argument is a nonstarter anyway since a system couldn't be considered dead until games stop coming out for it, as long as games are coming out the system is definitely alive.


Read this. http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77339

Yes, I disagree with you in that thread as well.

The real point here is that there can be no OFFICIAL list of what games are part of a system's library because different people will have different standards. That's fine with me since I think the whole idea of trying to collect every game for a system--especially every game off some arbitrary list from an arbitrary region--is pretty silly. And the idea that there's people out there who are hunting down copies of Jeremy McGrath Supercross for their Dreamcast collections, but don't want Feet Of Fury is...disturbing


...word is bondage...

[GrandAmChandler]

They're not on CD-Rs, they're pressed CDs with full color inserts. Very professional. They're not on GD-ROMs, but that trying to draw something from that distinction is akin to saying that Accolade releases for the Genesis shouldn't be counted since they used a different cart design from the licensed Genesis games or that Color Dreams NES games don't count because they're not grey.

By "wayyyy after the Dreamcast died" you mean "between one and four years," I assume. Well, games for the 2600, NES, Playstation and many other systems came out just as long and even longer after first party support stopped for those systems, but are still considered part of the system's library. The argument is a nonstarter anyway since a system couldn't be considered dead until games stop coming out for it, as long as games are coming out the system is definitely alive.


Yes, I disagree with you in that thread as well.

The real point here is that there can be no OFFICIAL list of what games are part of a system's library because different people will have different standards. That's fine with me since I think the whole idea of trying to collect every game for a system--especially every game off some arbitrary list from an arbitrary region--is pretty silly. And the idea that there's people out there who are hunting down copies of Jeremy McGrath Supercross for their Dreamcast collections, but don't want Feet Of Fury is...disturbing


...word is bondage...

Let's take the NES for example. Tengen releases could be found in stores during the software LIFECYCLE of the system. Just as could Color Dreams releases. And the Adult games could be found in Adult bookstores. And the Wisdom Tree games could be found in Christian Bookstores. All were within the time NES software was still being produced.

Homebrew games like Beats of Rage, Feet of Fury, and others don't count as official U.S. releases since they differ in time period. Just like Atari Age sells homebrews, these are classified in the DP guide as the same way. Too many factors make these differ than what could be purchased in a store.

In short, would a NES homebrew game that came in a cartridge shell made from Super Mario & Duck Hunt with a homemade label and microchip count as an official U.S. release? No. No it wouldn't. The line has to be drawn somewhere to make the point that they are different.

So we have:

- Different MEDIA Format (Not on GDROM) (not casing like you are comparing to NES cartridge casing size and color, although the GOAT games look totally different, but we aren't comparing that right?)
- Different Time Period (First one was released over 1 year after the last official release)
- Region Free (No U.S. Dreamcast game is region free.)


Hell, I will even go one step further. Take a look at this:

http://www.digitpress.com/DP/cmf/game.cmf?gameid=2697

But collect what you want. It's a very gray area, but the most Die Hard collectors on this board will agree with me when I say they are homebrews, and not Official U.S. releases. I will stick with my complete U.S. set.

-GAC-

[j_factor]

I don't agree with the "time period" nonsense... release date shouldn't be a determining factor. I guess Frogger for Genesis doesn't count, since no other Genesis software was being produced at the time?

And Feet of Fury only came out a few months after NHL 2K2.

[ProgrammingAce]

Way i always look at it, what makes a game homebrew or not is whether it was made in a sanctioned packaging facility under license from the manufacturer. Game also has to have been created using the official SDK. Leaves it fairly cut and dry for me.

Tengen? Not so much (at least the later titles).
Goat Store? Not so much.
Border Down? Yep.

As always, personal opinions very.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Way i always look at it, what makes a game homebrew or not is whether it was made in a sanctioned packaging facility under license from the manufacturer. Game also has to have been created using the official SDK. Leaves it fairly cut and dry for me.

Tengen? Not so much (at least the later titles).
Goat Store? Not so much.
Border Down? Yep.

As always, personal opinions very.
So then, the majority of Atari 2600 games released after 1982 were homebrew? I guess that fits with the console lifecycle thing GrandAmChandler keeps bringing up. I don't think anyone else is gonna buy it, though.

The real problem here that's confusing everyone is that the video game industry has changed so much over the years. From the 2600 era when there was no licensing schemes at all, to the NES and early Genesis era when there was licensing but it was still possible for unlicensed games to be sold in most stores down to the modern era where unlicensed games have no chance at all of seeing wide distribution (most distributors wouldn't carry them and no large chains will stock them).

Another thing that changed during this same time period is the Internet. And I think the Internet is the reason why people view the GOAT Publishing games differently from the releases from a company like Color Dreams. Nowadays, the GOAT Store is online and so is most of their distribution and Dan Loosen posts on fan boards like this one. If the Internet had been in 1989 what it is today, you can bet that Color Dreams and all the other unlicensed publishers of that era would have been doing business exactly the same way as the GOAT Store, because aside from that Internet presence and commuity involvement the GOAT Store games are already produced in pretty much exactly the same way as the earlier unlicensed games.

I agree that the GOAT Store games are homebrew, but I don't see "homebrew" and "unlicensed" or "independent" as mutually exclusive terms at all. The GOAT Store games are homebrew in the way that they're developed and unlicensed or independent in the way that they're published. This is another thing that has changed in video games over the years. Back in the old days, most games were developed more like homebrew. There weren't even devkits for most of the earlier systems and certainly not development libraries.


...word is bondage...

[GrandAmChandler]

I agree that the GOAT Store games are homebrew

That's all I needed. Thank you! ;)

-GAC-