Ebay Seller Beware :WE SHOULD ALL BOYCOTT PAYPAL (read)

[hayabusa_fmw]

Seriously SELLER BEWARE OF PAYPAL!
With new policy!
you will get scammed over 2x total value of your Sale & not be payed back!


Seriously this is the worst compagny ever

I hope they all die of a RARE DESEASE!

they are fucking scammers , that play with your money , & your bank account,

& most of their ACT WILL FOLLOW YOU during 4 years as ''bad credit!''



Here's my story:

Im selling a Like new DVD
I don't mention the cords comes with it i say ''MINT DVD PLAYER'' only with box

I assumed in 2007 that the 99.9% of population has either a 120volt generic plug & Rca cables (to my surprise.... Not everyone..... maybe he was from africa or something & Maybe his electricity is powered by a Hamster...)

Anyways heres the deal

I sold the unit
He payed me right away

Lowered the price on shipping so i lost 20 to 25$ on total
of my $

He received it

then waited maybe 1 week later
He wrote to me not as described.....
Missing 3 wires Nah can't accept that




Bang he decides to Put a CLAIM against my ass!
(because yes NOW you have the power to do so )
& like that he frozes 275$ automaticly of my acct (so my balance was 300$) now im at like 25$......... until They decide where the money goes...

I then tryed to ask him Drop the charge & im gonna send you any cables they had in the box

Then during that time He calls his ''credit card'' he says HEY.... i have a 275$ bill here i never autorised it BOOYA (it's gone)
so he got his 275$ back.. + remember he has my DVD STILL.


Then during that time im still in a Dispute with paypal
so basicly he could Win 900$ worth of Items without moving his ass
& also he could send me a BAD feedback for that


I think this is the worst Act of Fraud i have been a part of
I didn't know until now you could do such things....


So if you don't like what you buy guys


you have 45 days to FROOZE your seller's money & threat him & probably get your money back & have free stuff
& make sure to Call your credit card compagny & say it was un-autorized
that could work


WAY TO GO EBAY & PAYSHIT!"


& the worst part is....

They can play in your account freely
they don't care about you
they can charge you what they want when they want as long as your with them

I got 87 100% transaction to this date on ebay ,
& maybe an other 80 something on forums & everywhere.

I think this is the last time im gonna Accept or use ebay's Pal paypal & eshit

it's gonna be money orders & huge delays for every single of them


Be careful guys!
Just be careful!

this is only 1 of the 1000000000000 things they can do to you

& this happens when im trying to save to go back to school!

[Kitsune Sniper]

...

Could you write that in a way that is actually readable? They didn't teach me how to deal with that kind of writing in Translation school. I can't imagine how painful it is for native speakers to read that...

[Kid Ice]

This one goes to Everything Ebay. Fight the power, brother.

>>punt<<

[hayabusa_fmw]

ah sorry im french , I suck at doing resume....

[kentuckyfried]

While I agree that Paypal does have issues... your problem is with the user. Just like "Guns don't kill people...", Paypal doesn't steal your money, other users do. Chances are you will get it all resolved if you call & talk to them, but this is the risk you take with eBay/Paypal. Personally, I do almost all of my online buying with Paypal... if someone doesn't accept it, I look elsewhere.

EDIT - This is "Gamedeals.ca", Kentuckyfried was here earlier and forgot to log out. lol

[walrusmonger]

Summary:

Hayabusa fmw sold a dvd player (I think) for $275 or something. He didn't mention that it had or didn't have the AV and AC plugs.

The buyer got it and was pissed off, so he filed a claim.

Paypal froze Hayabusa fmw's account, and on top of that, the buyer told his credit card company that he never even authorized the charge! The buyer got his money back and still has the dvd player (I think that's what he sold), and Hayabusa is waiting to see if he loses out of his money and his product.

--

A link to the auction would be nice, this way we can all ban the buyer from our auctions.

[scooby105]

The fact that Paypal sucks is already common knowledge.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/ has plenty of info about this as do tons of other sites and I'm sure plenty of people here have complained as well.

All you can do as a seller is to make sure to include tracking info, describe items in your auctions accurately, and hope you don't get screwed. Also, don't link Paypal to a bank account, or if you do, link it to one that has a very small amount of money in it.

[Trebuken]

I've been exclusively a buyer on ebay/paypal and have only run into an issue once pr twice. If you buy two items or more from a seller and get combined shipping from the seller than the seller sends you only one item they can then prove that the items wer shipped (though they sent one) and PayPal will not retrieve your money.

$275 for a dvd player? HD-DVD or just a really nice player?

Anyways I was of the opionion that when a buyer compains to PayPal, PayPal then contacts you and gives you 10 days to respond before doing anything against you. If you don't respond they then attempt to recover the money. Did this not happen? It does seem unfair. All you could do now is sure the individual, which, I believe, can often be done by mail/phone and would not actually require a court appearance for this amount of money. You can prove that he received the item and that your money was taken.

[mb7241]

Here's the auction, I believe:

Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120136428797)

[JerseyDevil65]

You are partly to blame for not mentioning that no cords were included. It is not unreasonable for a buyer to assume that all necessary cords are included in an auction. It seems like you tried to pull a fast one and got one pulled right back on you.

You're right about one thing though, PayPal does suck.

[hayabusa_fmw]

Paypal & ebay is too fishy for me now

They seem to Have Stupid policy

Especialy on paypals part they can do what ever they want when they want basicly .


Anyways , sorry for the story all badly written i would hope to give a better part of the story i will try my best for you all to understand.

i will keep you guys updated if i lost the money or not!.

[shadowkn55]

I definitely don't see anything about the auction stating it was for dvd player and box only. Unless its explicitly stated, most people assume it has everything it needs to get started and is in working condition. While I don't agree to the buyer doing a charge back for $5 items, its your fault for not stating they were not included.

[Policenaut]

The problem lies in the fact that you did not stated that there is not any cable included in the auction. A good advice: be precise about specification; what includes and what don't. That would give you the edge in another situation like this, if there's another.

Now, apart from Paypal, is there another online transaction company? I've never had a problem with Paypal, but there can be another option for others.

[ryborg]

I definitely don't see anything about the auction stating it was for dvd player and box only. Unless its explicitly stated, most people assume it has everything it needs to get started and is in working condition. While I don't agree to the buyer doing a charge back for $5 items, its your fault for not stating they were not included.

Especially when you say in the auction that it's "Mint." I'd have expected no less than a refund in full if I were the buyer.

Where are you getting that you're going to lose your money TWICE? You can only do one chargeback per transaction. It doesn't matter if it's a Paypal claim or a credit card chargeback.

You say that Ebay and Paypal are too fishy for you. Well, selling an incomplete item as new is fishy enough for me. Paypal does suck, but this one is your fault.

BTW, I have a new sig thanks to the OP.

[DefaultGen]

.....

[Dragon Warrior Jasen]

I have to play devils advocate here with the folks saying its the buyers fault.

Usually if you list something for sale you list what it comes with, not what it doesnt come with. So if he said DVD Player and Box, then it would be DVD Player in box.

However, its some crap that it didnt come with the plug. It is definately something most resonable people would safely ASSUME it came with. If it didnt, you probably should have said it doesnt have the plug. Thats pretty F'ed up.

As for PayPal. It is what you make of it. If your bank sucks and lets paypal come in and take money without it being authroized... Thats on your bank, and definatley bologna on PP part. Paypal attempts to prevent scams.... emphasis on attempts. Nothing is 100% perfect, thats why feedback on PayPal and Ebay is important!

[kaedesdisciple]

I assumed in 2007 that the 99.9% of population has either a 120volt generic plug & Rca cables


Herein lies your problem, you assumed. Just think for one second: what if the person tried to plug in some other power cord that is the wrong voltage or the wrong polarity? The user then runs the risk of damaging the equipment, their circuit or heaven forbid, themselves. By not including all that is needed to run that piece of equipment you sold, you may be liable for damages depending on how vicious of a lawyer they hire.

I never assume anything on the bay, or any transaction for that matter. Even if I sound like an idiot asking a question, I ask it. If I'm buying, I'd rather know something obvious and be embarassed for a minute then get a product with something I didn't expect. If I'm selling, I try to describe everything possible about the item, including what it has and what it doesn't have, this way there is no question about what the buyer is getting and no one can theoretically come back to me.

[Market Man]

...

Improper use of ellipses!


They...

Who are they? Too ambiguous!


...didn't teach me how to deal with that kind of writing in Translation school.

Translation shouldn't be capitalized!


I can't imagine how painful it is for native speakers to read that...

Get the hell off your high horse little man! Yank the plank from your peeper before offering to pluck the splinter off your brother! A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush! Don't look a gift horse in the mouth! Let sleeping dogs lie! Don't take wooden nickels! Never take candy from strangers! Enter unmarked vans offering rides home at your own discretion!

[Market Man's Crotch]

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Study hard, kids!

...

Or else you'll grow up to be a furry!

...

...

...

[Kitsune Sniper]

I've got one thing to say to you.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3458/garyshandling150x200mx5.jpg

[Fuyukaze]

Looking at the auction, I noticed something. Did it come with the manual? Did it comes with the remote? Did it realy come with the box? I'm not seeing anywheres where it lists exactly what does come with it. It's easy to assume it comes with the controler and box but if it's not in the details one shouldnt think it's a given.

[Griking]

While it may be easy to pick on this poor guys grammar and nitpick at his auction description I think the point that he's trying to make here is that the buyer is obviously a scammer and he's being taken to the cleaners. The guy filed a charge back with BOTH his credit card company AND PayPal and of course he still has the guys DVD player. If all of these charge backs are approved he's going to be out a large sum of money.

Yeah, we all know that these things can happen but geez, I expected at least a little sympathy for the poor guy.

[rik1138]

I still think it's funny when people start complaining and crying when they get a chargeback like this... This isn't PayPal's fault, this is _EXACTLY_ how credit card companies have worked since as far back as I can remember. The problem now is that everyone can accept credit cards through services like PayPal. Granted, it would have been nice if the buyer gave you a little time to rectify the problem, and he _IS_ required to prove he sent the item back to you before he can actually claim his money (he's already admitted he has it, so he can't use the 'it never showed up' excuse.).

Sure, there will be people that abuse this system. If that's going to put you (a seller) in a world of financial hurt, then don't ever accept credit cards through ANY service. Even if you could accept credit cards directly, you would still be hit with the chargeback. That's how they work.

The guy filed a claim with both companies to make sure he gets his money back. He won't get double his money back. PayPal will refund the money to the credit card company, who will then credit it back to the buyer. He's not going to get money back from BOTH. The funny thing about this is, since he claimed he never authorized the charge, and there's definitely a digital 'paper trail' of him SENDING the money to the seller through PayPal, he's going to have to prove someone hacked his PayPal account to make the payment...

This all assumes anyone at the credit card company or PayPal really cares... For $275, they won't. If it came down to it, they'd refund the money to buyer, and let the seller keep the money rather than drag it into court or anything. The amount of money is just not worth their time.

People need to quit complaining that PayPal sucks and either accept that credit cards work this way, or don't accept them, EVER. This falls under 'acceptable loss' that any company has to account for (and by accepting credit cards, you are affectively a company). People steal from Wal-Mart every day, but you don't see Sam Walton crying about it on 'customers_suck.com' (even if he was still alive). Fortunately this kind of thing doesn't happen very often, but it does suck when it happens to you... How many people have you heard complain about PayPal? Divide that into the millions of people that use the service and you will find a percentage acceptable by anyone... I've been buying and selling on Ebay for nearly 10 years and over $200,000 in transactions both way during that time. I think I've 'lost' about $2200 in that time to scams, lost money/items and a chargeback or two. I'm sure ANY company would love to have loss percentage of only 1% over a 10-year period. So, while the scams that got me still tick me off, I can easily accept them as part of daily life...

(I'm not saying I necessarily like everything PayPal and Ebay do myself (they annoy me on a regular basis), but you can't blame the service because some a-hole has no patience or likes ripping people off...)

If you are really scared of PayPal, open a seperate checking account just for use with PP, and never keep money in your PP account... That way you don't have money 'tied up' while dealing with a claim.

Rik

[aaron7]

I agree that you were misleading. If I bought a car that someone said was new last year, I'd expect it to have tires. If it showed up to my house without tires, I'd feel cheated and file a claim as well to make sure the seller didn't dissapear.

Not to mention I've used Paypal nearly since it came out and never had a problem. Everyone I've seen that has complaints about them did something wrong/stupid to cause them to freeze their account...

[Kitsune Sniper]

Okay, fine. OP, I apologize for the tone of my reply. I just saw you're from Canada, so I'm guessing your first language is probably Canadian French. I didn't mean to sound like a dick.

[Mattiekrome]

I've got one thing to say to you.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3458/garyshandling150x200mx5.jpg

ROFL Nice

[Fuyukaze]

While it may be easy to pick on this poor guys grammar and nitpick at his auction description I think the point that he's trying to make here is that the buyer is obviously a scammer and he's being taken to the cleaners. The guy filed a charge back with BOTH his credit card company AND PayPal and of course he still has the guys DVD player. If all of these charge backs are approved he's going to be out a large sum of money.

Yeah, we all know that these things can happen but geez, I expected at least a little sympathy for the poor guy.


Fine. He's been had and unless he somehow can provide proof that they recieved the item as well as proove to paypal that this person is scamming him he's out a whole lot. If paypal refunds the CC transaction as well as refunds him the money from the paypal claim he's doubly screwed as he's out 600 instead of just 275. By now the item that was sold is just a distant thought as the other 2 alone dont deal with just a phisical item but actual money.

Get in touch with pay-pal any way posible and be heard. Give them all the information you have on the transaction including dates, messages, and literaly any bit you can. If you cant provide evidence that they actualy recieved anything then your screwed out of your HDVD player but at the very least you owe it to yourself to now be screwed out of $600. It's damage control time.

There. Was that helpfull?

[Kitsune Sniper]

ROFL Nice

And for the record, THAT reply was for the guy who posts using the Market Man personas.

[Lady Jaye]

Indeed, English is not the OP's mother tongue. I can confirm this since he's a member of my local gaming club.