RPGs to convert the "haters"

[bargora]

OK Kid Fenris, you who said:

dood rpg's areb orring and i realy would rater hit my hed on teh kiutchen counetr a hundread time liek i justd id than play a stuppidr pg and run around a dumb feild gettin itno battle i want to palay a fightign game are a shootter cuz tehy ar eall abuot GAEMPLAY INSteaD OF STUPID FATHeD PAOPLE TaLKIGN i CAN BeAT SKULFANg ON 1 CReD IT IN TATE MOD ECASE I AM HARDCARE!!@!~~!!!!!!!!!!!
While you have captured the essence of my thought, I'm willing to try something new. Hell, up until last month I was pretty sure that only illiterate sub-humans like buttasuperb liked fighting games.

I've checked the classic discussions and found theaveng's top 50 RPGs thread. Totally worthless. So please give me a couple of suggestions (a top 3 or 5?) of RPG games that are likely to win over a neanderthal shmup player. Maybe RPG-lite is what's called for here. Or RPGs for noobs or idiots or something. Maybe action-RPGs? Please limit suggestions to console games currently available at retail or on ebay for $50 or less.

And BTW, how IS Skull Fang?

[Scoots]

Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES). One of the best games I've ever played. Perfect mix of real time battle and RPG puzzle stuff.

Diablo 2--this is like RPG Lite Lite. Hack and slash with incidental story and an RPG stat system.

[asharru]

If you're into cyberpunk themes, Shadowrun on SNES and Genesis is one of my favorites.

[Anonymous]

Final Fantasy Mystic Quest LOL

Seriously, if you're looking for a real RPG rpg that is fun, try Lunar 1 on the PSX. It's very light, with FMVs, excellent humor, etc. and isn't too difficult. It's also pretty linear, with no overworld random battles. When Zmestron was working at Working Designs he was part of the team that worked on Lunar PSX.

[Kid Fenris]

Let's see . . . I'm going to assume that your main gripes with the RPG genre lie with boring random combat and needlessly long quests. I'll try to bring up a few games that cut down on both problems.

Suikoden I and II (PSX): These feature refreshingly infrequent battles, engaging combat systems, over 108 characters to discover and recruit, and stories that are less grandiose and more interesting than the standard teens-save-the-world stuff. However, Suikoden II falls outside of your $50 rule, unless you can snag one at GameStop or EB, and I'm not sure if I'd recommend Suikoden III (http://www.kidfenris.com/suikoden3.html), as it's pretty dull for the first few hours.

Threads of Fate (PSX): A light, cute, and straightforward action/RPG, Threads is heavy on the "action" element and short enough to hold anyone's attention. It's one of the more amusing RPGs out there, and you should be able to find it for about ten bucks.

Terranigma/Tenchi Souzou (SNES/SFC): You'll have to grab a ROM (or pay an eBay ransom) to play the English version, but this combat-focused action/RPG is quite fun. Though it has world-building elements like those in Actraiser, they're cleverly mixed into the progression of the game.

Chrono Trigger (SNES, PSX): You've undoubtedly heard about the Chrono series, but Trigger is actually an excellent RPG for the skeptical or uninitiated. The battles aren't too common, and when they do crop up, they're quick and varied in style. At 25 hours or more, the overall quest is kind of long, but the time-travel aspect keeps things from slowing down.

Valkyrie Profile (PSX): I hesitate to suggest this, since it involves a LOT of character management, yet you might enjoy the dungeons, which recall Castlevania:SotN, and the combat, which involves quick-and-dirty button-tapping. I've actually got a review (http://www.kidfenris.com/valkyriep.html) of it up on my site, if you want to know more.

A few others: Vagrant Story (it's complex but action-oriented), any Zelda game, Chrono Cross (no random battles), both PSX Lunar remakes, and Panzer Dragoon Saga (yeah, it runs well over $50, but even Captain Wrong liked it).

Edit: You know, I actually got a kick out of Skull Fang for the five minutes that I gave it in the arcade, but then I also liked Giga Wing in the arcade, only to reverse my opinion when I got it home.

[Tritoch]

Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario are both good beginner RPGs, and they have enough action elements to keep a shmup fan like you from falling asleep.

You can buy Paper Mario for a little over $20 new at Amazon.com, or at most TRUs for the same price.


Let's see . . . I'm going to assume that your main gripes with the RPG genre lie with boring random combat and needlessly long quests. I'll try to bring up a few games that cut down on both problems.

Suikoden I and II (PSX): These feature refreshingly infrequent battles, engaging combat systems, over 108 characters to discover and recruit, and stories that are less grandiose and more interesting than the standard teens-save-the-world stuff. However, Suikoden II falls outside of your $50 rule, unless you can snag one at GameStop or EB, and I'm not sure if I'd recommend Suikoden III (http://www.kidfenris.com/suikoden3.html), as it's pretty dull for the first few hours.

Personally, I don't think the Suikoden series is a good one to start out on. The battles were quite frequent IMO (although not as bad as something like Skies of Arcadia), and some of the gameplay elements are geared towards more advanced RPGers.


Chrono Trigger (SNES, PSX): You've undoubtedly heard about the Chrono series, but Trigger is actually a excellent RPG for the skeptical or uninitiated. The battles aren't too common, and when they do crop up, they're quick and varied in style. At 25 hours or more, the overall quest is kind of long, but the time-travel aspect keeps things from slowing down.

I second that. Chrono Trigger was my first, and is what got me hooked on RPGs in the first place.


A few others: Vagrant Story (it's complex but action-oriented), any Zelda game, Chrono Cross (no random battles), both PSX Lunar remakes, and Panzer Dragoon Saga (yeah, it runs well over $50, but even Captain Wrong liked it).

Lunar's good too for the reasons mentioned above. I DON'T recommend Zelda though...if you play it thinking it's a RPG, you'll find out you've been had when you get into a real RPG. They're great ADVENTURE games, not RPGs. (I won't get dragged into that debate again...I hope...)

[Scoots]

They're great ADVENTURE games, not RPGs.

I think the thread's starter specified "RPG Lite"--something for those who hate "proper" RPGs. I think the Zelda series fits that criteria perfectly.

[DarkSoul]

Additionally, (referencing "Adventure vs. RPG"), you'll find that if you include PC games (Which Diablo and Diablo II certainly are, as are a lot of the very greatest RPGs- RPGists, you owe it to yourself to break out of this consolecentric mentality!) the line between Adventure type and RPG games is blurred to the point that it's ignored. Console forums are the only place you ever seem to see such heated debate over what a "true" RPG is... I think that in the future there'll be no RPGers Vs Adventurers, just wankers, and think that's great. Just no one told Begby (or Sylentwulf, as it looks now, if you get my reference :) ).

And, to the original poster: Diablo 1 (PC), is about as lite as you can get. I prefer it to the sequel, Diablo II, which to me loses the charm of the original, regardless of the fact that I can't find a specific complaint about it.

Chrono Trigger (SNES) is my favorite console RPG. It's not quite as lite though.

Legend of Zelda (NES) is a good time too. It's lite on RPG elements, and heavier on maze crawling, and c'mon, EVERYONE and their mother's brother has beaten it, so get with the program! =)

Super Mario RPG (SNES) is fun in a way, yes, and it is plenty lite enough, however I'm concerned that it may not be quite the same caliber of a game that would really hook you on the genre.

[Sylentwulf]

If you don't like RPGs, then screw you, I don't want you playing them :)

Most of what has been mentioned before and after this reply are NOT RPG's.

[kainemaxwell]

Secret of Mana's a good start too.

[bargora]

Well hot damn. A lot of nice suggestions and a rekindled debate on the proper classification of games. As it happens I have Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past and Super Mario RPG sitting on my shelf right now, untouched by my hand (except to put them on the shelf--the kind soul who donated his SNES to me also gave me those games, inter alia). I've seen enough people endorse Zelda that I think I'll give that one a try. I may also pick up the first Lunar and Suikoden discs. Maybe Shadowrun, too, cuz I liek cyberpunk.

An aside: Since that Zelda cart is probably pushing ten years old (and I'm assuming it uses a battery save), should I crack her open and replace the battery? Or is there a way I can be assured that the battery is still reliable? I would be furious if the game lost my save twenty hours in.

I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned ANY Final Fantasy; is that because FF contains all of the stereotypical "annoying" RPG characteristics? And I'm also curious, sylentwulf, as to what the "real" RPGs are. Although I'll have to take your statements with a grain of salt, you furry lover! LOL

Also, I'm consolecentric these days because, well, because I'm too lazy to set up my computer at home. But if my wife keeps monopolizing the VG setup playing that Ghosts 'n' Goblins cart I got her (oh, how the mighty disdainful have fallen) I just might have to get a round tuit.

[Scoots]

Whatever you call Link to the Past, that game rules the school. I haven't had a problem with my battery, though I had that exact problem with the original NES Zelda. Just about to do the 7th dungeon, and all my data GONE.

And yeah, FF (while cool games) have all the classic RPG's annoying characteristics--the random battles, the turn based combat, the endless levelling up, etc. Dragon Warrior is the same way. Ditto Ultima. All good games, but unless you're into RPGs they'll likely leave you cold.

[Starcade]

I suggest The 7th saga for SNES,,great game

[Sylentwulf]

I don't REALLY consider it an RPG unless it has different armor/weapons/accessories, your char's have to level up, and there has to be a start and end to the story (there has to BE a story)

Also, if you have to put Zelda-type games in the RPG category, at least call them action-rpg's.

[NvrMore]

Following on from Sylentwulf's comment about defining RPG's by sub-genre's, it sounds as though the action-rpg's would be your best bet, being that I'm guessing that it's likely the common features of stat or turn based RPG's such as unavoidable random encounters and menu-based battles which turn you off.

In which case..

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (SNES)
Shadowrun (SNES or Genesis)
Secret of Mana (SNES)

Would be my reccomendations, being that they are all notably different from one another to provide a broad range of gameplay while all essentially being Action-RPG's.
Zelda is simply a classic imo, it's fantastic, it needs no other reasons than the fact that many (including myself) consider it one of the best games ever made.
Shadowrun, is a very different and innovative style of action-rpg, it's very atmospheric, doesn't go by the standard hack and slash style (instead uses guns, grenades, magic and hired help) and has the wonderful and satisfying trait not found in most other RPG's.. the ability to kill civilians, plus if you're a fan of cyberpunk you should get right into this game.
Secret of Mana is a cross between the action-RPG genre and the stat based RPG's like the FF series, it uses the stat system for characteristics and experience, but it plays like an action-rpg. It's got a great storyline, good control system is a very good compromise in gameplay for those looking for something closer to the stat based-RPG but with the more active control and combat of an action-RPG.

[le geek]

Yeah a proper RPG does have to have character hit points and levels I reckon.

Not sure about needing a story since that falls under the Console RPGs in my mind which came after the originals like Ultima Wizardry etc...

That said I liked Suikoden I and Final Fantasy II (IV) a lot and they were my introductions... Also Suikoden I is shorter than mosr RPGs...

For the action RPG I like the zelda games (sadly Link to the Past is my least favorite) Alundra is a nice Action RPG as well...

[scooterb23]

I've never liked RPG's either. I think the part I don't like is that the story gets in the way...I like all the battle sequences and such in RPGs...I just never care about the story...I just want to hack 'n slash, and collect loot (any games on that ilk, I'd like to hear recommendations as well...I sense Diablo would be up my alley).

If they ever turned Knights of the Dinner Table into a video game...I'd be all over that. Hoody Hoo!!

[Griking]

If you're looking for the Ultimate RPGs to win an anti-RPSer over then why in the world would you suggest a RPG lite type of game? Give him the best available and if he still doesn't like it then there's probably no hope for him.

My recommendations would probably be;

Ultima IV-V for the Apple II or C64
The Bard's Tale for Apple II or C64
Any of the SSI Gold Box games from the 80s.
Wasteland - Apple II & C64 again

If he absolutely insists on having to have flashy modern graphics and sound effects he's not a true RPGer to begin with but I'd then recommend

Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
Icewind Dale
Planetscape: Torment.

As you can tell, I'm not big on RPGs you have to play with a joystick or gamepad.

[NE146]

See with me... I LOVED RPG's. When I started my first w/ SMS Phantasy Star.. I bought and played every RPG I could find.. Then around the time after Chrono Trigger.. I think it was Final Fantasy VII... something happened. They got boring. I don't know what it is, maybe I just burnt out on them after those years. But I can't really sit and play an RPG anymore.. and I don't think anything could bring me back. Oh well.

But SNES Zelda's a different story. I am of the camp that doesn't believe it's an RPG but that doesn't matter one way or the other.. the game still rocks :)

[stargate]

I would second Diablo II on PC, online, to anyone who wants to get into RPG's. I know it is not a console, but I saw it listed and just have to say how much I love this game. I never liked RPG's that much and played this game and was AMAZED at how great it was. Easy to learn, great graphics, great gameplay, tons of action, and insane character building. I have been playing it for about a year now with the LOD expansion.

[josekortez]

Dark Cloud 2 did it for me. I hate the fact that most RPGs are linear and force to fight the same lousy enemies over and over, but DC2's Invention System has changed me into an RPG fan. The Invention System lets you photograph household items and combine them, like making recipes in Harvest Moon 64 and Save the Homeland. Also, it's got weirdo characters. I probably won't play it again once I beat it.

I always liked both of those Harvest Moons, but that series reminds me more of a game like Shenmue with a lot of experimentation.

[maxlords]

And BTW, how IS Skull Fang?


Good shooter, solid, decent graphics...but not stunning. For the Saturn, there are FAR superior ones. Don't overpay for it. I paid $10 for a sealed Skullfang from a friend, and it was easily worth it, but I don't think it's worth over $25 or $30 IMO. I did like that you can do Street Fighter-esque moves with your ship to do special attacks tho :)

[BIGMIKE]

diablo for the psx rocks.........it's a great game with many quests and quests within quests. a definate love of mine ........sell ya a 40 level warrior too for a $buck lol

[cheesystick]

I have to make a disagreement. DO NOT get the 7th Saga for a RPG hater. That was the first RPG that I have ever played, and thus, I friggin hate RPGs now. That game ruined any chance of me ever liking RPGs. Lame plots, wasted time leveling up, and too many random battles. Enough to drive a shooter fan up the wall. I am so angry at this game, for ruining a genre that I probably would have adored. >:(
-crispy

[Captain Wrong]

@bargora, I'll bet I'm the last person on this board you'd expect to see pop my head in this thread, but I'll toss in my two coppers.

Lunar PSX was the ONLY RPG I managed to play to completion without being lulled in to a deep deep sleep. In fact, it inspired me to get the Sega CD original, so I guess you can say I've played it thought twice.

Of course, I think what I dug about that was what most of the hardcore RPG fans hate the most about it, the silly dialogue. At times it almost felt like a parody of an RPG (more so on the Sega, they toned the re-mix down a peg.) That and the fact that you can take your time and still finish in 20 hours and feel like you got a good deal.

You might check that one out. It's got a "something" to it that made me play it. Of course, I never finished the sequel or any other of the half dozen RPGs I checked out after finishing Lunar so it didn't exactly start a love of the genre. But I liked Lunar and I really did give RPGs a honest try.


Panzer Dragoon Saga (yeah, it runs well over $50, but even Captain Wrong liked it).

LOL! Actually, confession time, I still haven't FINISHED PDS. It's been well over two years and I still haven't gotten past the beginning of disc 4. But yeah, it's a swell game too, and again, one that seems very different from other RPGs.

[Sylentwulf]

7th Saga is a horrible little game (And I liked it a LOT more than most people :)

I HAVE to also comment on Diablo. Play Diablo 1, it's fun for a bit, and luckily, it's over fairly quickly. Diablo 2 is the SAME DAMN THING, only MORE BORING.

Everyone who doesn't like RPG'S complains of tedious repetitive monsters? Well Diablo takes the friggin cake. Oh, and don't forget to hike back to town every 15 minutes. Yeah, ALLLLLLLLLLLL the DAMNED WAY ACROSS THE DESERT. OVER AND OVER.

[Raedon]

fire up an Amiga and Bard's Tale 1.