A new portable gaming device

[monkeychemist]

Hello everyone!

Well, I have had it with finding the ideal portable. Thank you guys for all your input in looking for it. I defaulted to a PSP in the end because it seemed most suitable. Unfortunately, it was plagued by slow SNES emulation, not that great battery life and a web browser that seems cool at first, but then when you type your first url, you realize that this was not made to type haha.

So a while back, during my search for the ideal portable, I decided to contact my old friends from college. Luckily, Notre Dame has a good network for alumni and I was able to reconnect with some friends…more importantly engineering friends. We founded our company (Inverted, Inc.) are currently working with a R&D company on a new device that would meet all of my capricious demands.

This portable is being designed with two purposes in mind: 1) for the gamer in all of us and 2) for the professional in all of us that needs email, the web and common business applications. This will have a way to comfortably play games, unlike PDAs and cell phones and at the same time be small and professional looking with an easy way to type in order to use it for anything.

We are finally getting to the end of the design part and into the phase where we have to give away lots of money. My question to my friends at Digital Press is would you guys be interested in such a device? Do you think that we can actually make something of this, or is this simply my personal dream?

Thank you,

Jeremy

[chicnstu]

Whether I want one or not mainly depends on the price. I'm very interested though.
We are finally getting to the end of the design part and into the phase where we have to give away lots of money. My question to my friends at Digital Press is would you guys be interested in such a device? Do you think that we can actually make something of this, or is this simply my personal dream?

Thank you,

Jeremy Is it a NEW system that you will be working with publishers to get games for it or is it like a modification to the PSP or something to make it better? Usually new things like this from a company not well known don't sell well, is that what you plan to do?

[monkeychemist]

Whether I want one or not mainly depends on the price. I'm very interested though.

We are trying to come up with a cost that would make it affordable for pretty much everyone. I am thinking in the 250 range, but at this stage it is too early to commit to...but thats my goal.



Is it a NEW system that you will be working with publishers to get games for it or is it like a modification to the PSP or something to make it better? Usually new things like this from a company not well known don't sell well, is that what you plan to do?

This is going to be a completely new device. As far as developing games for it, I am not sure at this time. We will begin by having an operating system that has already a good amount of homebrew software/games, or maybe even an open source system like linux. In any case, we have a plan to create a website with all of the downloadable content so that people buying our products have a reliable source of free new software for the device.

[mailman187666]

while this may be a great design and invention, it may be suicide to put something like that out there. You say the goal is to charge $250 for the device and have all sorts of free downloadable content and homebrew. But think of what the price is compared to the competition. You'd be going up against DS and PSP. While the new device may have better features and could possibly be a more powerful system, Nintendo and Sony are two of the biggest names in the game market. When somebody sees a redesigned PSP for $180 or whatever its gonna cost, and can walk into a game store and have shit loads of software to choose from made by other big companies, its gonna be hard to sell something new from a little known company at a higher cost than the more well known competition with the lower price tag.

[Kitsune Sniper]

while this may be a great design and invention, it may be suicide to put something like that out there. You say the goal is to charge $250 for the device and have all sorts of free downloadable content and homebrew. But think of what the price is compared to the competition. You'd be going up against DS and PSP. While the new device may have better features and could possibly be a more powerful system, Nintendo and Sony are two of the biggest names in the game market. When somebody sees a redesigned PSP for $180 or whatever its gonna cost, and can walk into a game store and have shit loads of software to choose from made by other big companies, its gonna be hard to sell something new from a little known company at a higher cost than the more well known competition with the lower price tag.The first post mentioned that it'll also be a good tool for non-gamers. That could give it the edge it needs to survive; if it's friendly towards homebrew programmers, it'll definitely find a niche market, at least...

[monkeychemist]

while this may be a great design and invention, it may be suicide to put something like that out there. You say the goal is to charge $250 for the device and have all sorts of free downloadable content and homebrew. But think of what the price is compared to the competition. You'd be going up against DS and PSP. While the new device may have better features and could possibly be a more powerful system, Nintendo and Sony are two of the biggest names in the game market. When somebody sees a redesigned PSP for $180 or whatever its gonna cost, and can walk into a game store and have shit loads of software to choose from made by other big companies, its gonna be hard to sell something new from a little known company at a higher cost than the more well known competition with the lower price tag.

Yes, I understand that and if manufacturing costs are less I will make it less. The thing is that I am not looking to compete with Nintendo or Sony. There is no way I could. Instead, I am trying to create a portable device that will be a mini computer (that usually cost a lot more than 250) and at the same time can cater to those of us gamers. I am thinking of the Zodiac and GP2x. They made something that could handle all kinds of games and emulation. This could be a new generation of those portables.

[Damaniel]

The perfect device (for me, at least -- YMMV), would be something with a form factor and screen size/resolution similar to the Nokia N800, but with actual gaming controls (d-pad and buttons). You'd probably want it to be running Linux due to the large developer base and the availability of emulators. Wi-Fi would be nice too. Of course, the N800 costs more than $250 already, so hitting a $250 price target with these specs would be tricky.

The GP2X already exists in this 'homebrew-friendly' market space, but lacks the processing power and larger screen necessary to serve as a more general-purpose computer. If you were able to create something more like what I described above, I'd buy one in a second.

Lining up a developer or two to create content for the system would help too, but this is much easier said than done. It's the chicken vs. egg issue -- studios don't want to develop for unproven hardware and buyers don't want to buy into hardware without some software support.

[skaar]

I think you should call it the Gizmondo!

[monkeychemist]

The perfect device (for me, at least -- YMMV), would be something with a form factor and screen size/resolution similar to the Nokia N800, but with actual gaming controls (d-pad and buttons). You'd probably want it to be running Linux due to the large developer base and the availability of emulators. Wi-Fi would be nice too. Of course, the N800 costs more than $250 already, so hitting a $250 price target with these specs would be tricky.

The GP2X already exists in this 'homebrew-friendly' market space, but lacks the processing power and larger screen necessary to serve as a more general-purpose computer. If you were able to create something more like what I described above, I'd buy one in a second.

Lining up a developer or two to create content for the system would help too, but this is much easier said than done. It's the chicken vs. egg issue -- studios don't want to develop for unproven hardware and buyers don't want to buy into hardware without some software support.

Yes, we are developing a "controller" feel system. The challenge is making something ergonomically easy to play games and at the same time look professional so you don't look like a kid whipping it out during a business meeting.

[chicnstu]

Yes, I understand that and if manufacturing costs are less I will make it less. The thing is that I am not looking to compete with Nintendo or Sony. There is no way I could. Instead, I am trying to create a portable device that will be a mini computer (that usually cost a lot more than 250) and at the same time can cater to those of us gamers. I am thinking of the Zodiac and 32X. They made something that could handle all kinds of games and emulation. This could be a new generation of those portables. Sounds like a good idea, we'll just have to see it and what's going to happen to judge.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

My initial thoughts after reading the first post in this thread are: "Oh no, not another GP32 / Gizmondo / Zodiac clone...", as has been mentioned above

At the end of the day, most of us want to play all the games we know and love, on a portable. This is evident by all the various emulators which have been created for PSP, N-Gage, DS etc. Whilst some are better than others, most are far from perfect.

The problem with the PSP and Sony is: We would be more than happy to have a console where we could play all our favourite PlayStation titles. Had they made the PSP based on the rerecordable Mini Disc technology (Albeit with UMD's instead), and given us a tool which would have enabled owners of PlayStation games to make a copy onto a UMD, then we would've been content with that. Obviously there are key problems with this idea (The most obvious one being piracy and protection of IP's), but deep down it's what we all want.

Same goes for DS. We would've been content having a portable console that allowed us to play N64 games. I am surprised that Nintendo haven't yet given us a new incarnation of the GameBoy which features internet access and a form of Virtual Console software which would enable gamers to download and play various games from Nintendo's past ~ Now i'm sure there would be a market for such a console (iQue anyone?) ~ Plus, it would solve various piracy issues which would arise.


But, back on topic. Stability and versatility is the main concern with such a portable device. I would say memory capacity and processing power are the two main factors. Ie, your average mobile phone or PDA is more powerful than a home PC was only six years back, but they barely have the software or power that allow you to run anything newer than a game like Doom. Even an iPod can run a crude incarnation of Doom.

If I were to make a portable console, i'd want it to be able to run the various PC emulators (Such as Snes9x, Gens, VirtualBoy Advance etc) smoothly at full speed with no problems, plus also allowing me to be able to run various PC games from pre-1999 (Such as Age Of Empires, Sim City, Theme Park, Doom, Quake II etc)

[otoko]

I know what you mean. I'm not quite yet in the world of business and I own a DS and a PSP. I'll tell you how I like my PSP when I dust it off... and find it... meh it's not worth it. *ahem* I like your ideas and if it can deliver, also interested in your device. Just would like to know what type of hardware is going into your new console.

[rbudrick]

I'd honestly have to know way more about this system. We will always buy a new system if it rocks.

-Rob

[monkeychemist]

I'd honestly have to know way more about this system. We will always buy a new system if it rocks.

Yes, I understand and agree with you because that is what I would want. Since we are not fully done, I don't want to give half-fast specs right now, however as soon as I can I will. I am not even sure what operating system would make it run the most reliably and fastest.

[Sweater Fish Deluxe]

Then it doesn't sound like you're anywhere near the end of the design phase.

For me, the DS can do all the non-gaming stuff I need as well as all the gaming, so I doubt I'd buy another handheld--but if I did it would probably be the GP2X at this point and it sounds like that's pretty much the sort of thing you're going for, so it sounds interesting to me.

Personally, I don't understand the need for things like PDAs. I've tried using PDAs and even DSOrganize on my DS to keep track of numbers, e-mails and schedules for work, but I've never found anything that works better than a fliptop spiralbound notebook. So I'm doubtful of how useful that side of your system would be for me. I'm also doubtful that you could build a stronger homebrew scene than the DS and GP2X already have. And I'm positive you couldn't get more commercial game support than the DS and PSP. So...well, that's just my take.


...word is bondage...

[neuropolitique]

Sounds a lot like the Tapwave Zodiac, which is not all bad. The Zodiac is a great device. I love mine, the screen is gorgeous. Tapwave no longer exists, though.

[ProgrammingAce]

If you really plan on going through with this, you're going to need the best marketing people on the planet. The first thing people are going to ask is how it's better then the $130 nintendo DS.

[Anexanhume]

I think one thing should be really easy... make it open source and make it linux/unix based. You'll have access to kernels that you can whip into whatever shape you need them. If your device uses an ARM processor, you can also count on people who have developed emulators for the GP2X porting those over to your device if it succeeds.

That being said, you have to offer a superior product to them. That means full SNES emulation ability, and even N64 if you can pull it off. It also means being acceptable to different types of media input. The GP2x has trouble being compatible with some types of SD cards, so what I think you want is strong support for SD and microSD cards, as well as USB if you can.

As for the PDA functionality, you may want to consider adding touch screen functionality (I don't know the economics of that), but that also opens a whole other dimension for your open source community supporting your device in terms of homebrew.

I would also make it easy to sync up with a PC.

As for ergonomics and styling, it obviously can't be a brick like the nomad, nor weigh too much, and it can't be ugly to look at. I think an analog stick, 4 face button (plus a start and select) as well as 2 shoulder buttons is a good core design.

A rechargeable custom battery pack may not be a bad idea either. If you force people to use AA's, then they may use rechargeables, but likely won't get more than 8 hours tops out of your device. If you include a custom battery pack, you can up this and make it less frustrating to use. A wall adapter to charge without taking the battery out would be a smart move too.

Honestly, you want to use the gp2x as your base and say to yourselves "How can we improve this device?" because their product fits perfectly into the market where the PSP and DS don't necessarily reach.

If you don't want to go that high in specs, then I think you have to make it a 100 or less device that still offers compelling features.

[noname11]

Just don't market your products' ability to reproduce the copyrighted works of others. Let that spread by word of mouth or make your system linux based.

I'd buy one of it ends up having huge storage capacity. A huge library of games and music at my disposal every waking moment would be awesome.

[sisko]

I guess I just don't understand the difference between this and a DS Lite with a solid Flash Cart with some existing homebrew applications.

While I might be intriqued, I probably wouldn't buy one as I have already invested in multiple DS Lites.

[monkeychemist]

Thank you everyone for your input. to answer some of your questions here is a little more information:

We are working on something that will have a size similar to an iPhone so that it is small, portable and professional looking. As far as the gaming ergonomics, we are working on an accessory that you put it in that makes it become a controller. That way it is still nice and comfortable to play.

Touch screen, I am not sure yet. Although that would be amazing, I don't know if we can feasibly put that feature in at a price below 250. Unlike Sony, we won't be able to sell our console at a loss because we would have nothing to make up the difference.

Battery will be a rechargeable one, also will synch up to PCs via USB. There will be a SD card port so that storage memory is what you want make it.

I am not sure about the operating system yet, however I will ensure one thing: it will be fully and explicitly for your own customization and cater to homebrewers. There is nothing that bothers me more than the current commercial handhelds that you have to “crack” in order to do what you want.

To answer the questions about price vs. a DS or PSP… you can’t just consider the $130 and $199 prices. You need to also buy flash carts with a poor interface/complicated synch to PC or buying a game to downgrade and play what you want. So to address the price issue I would say you are paying for better hardware, convenience and unlimited possibilities.

So yes, it sounds sorta like a Zodiac or a GP2x, just upgraded and with more versatile functions in a nutshell.

I hope this clarifies things.

Jeremy

[Gemini-Phoenix]

I think the two main concerns here are with design aspects. People are going to compare it with PDA's and / or Gizmondo, Zodiac, and GP32 / GPX2 etc.

Touch screen isn't too important to me. That's what a PDA is for in my opinion. Unless it's going to be a PDA that plays games, there's not really any need. I would imagine it's primary function is to play games, and the other aspects will be secondary. Something Sony's marketing division doesn't seem to understand. Similarly, mobile phone design these days is centered on making the device something other than just a device to make calls. But these days, more emphasis is on making a mobile phone more of a camera / MP3 player that makes calls, rather than a phone that can take pictures or play music.

Compatability. In an ideal world, you'd have Memory Stick Duo and SD Card compatability. This opens up the option to use Micro SD / Mini SD and Micro Memory Sticks too. USB is always important with uplinking to a PC / Mac, so long as there isn't any unnecessary software interface. Drag and drop is good, but something along the lines of Nokia's PC Suite, Sony's SonicStage, or Apple's iTunes is just plainly annoying.


As for the design... I think most people would prefer a panoramic landscape screen rather than a portrait screen. Portrait is good for mobile phones and PDA's, but for gaming you really need a landscape screen. The GameBoy Micro proved that you can have a small hi-resolution screen, and the Nokia N95 mobile phone also has a nice screen. The N-Gage showed us exactly how not to make a gaming device though ~ I also believe that the PSP size and shape is ideal. The Gizmondo, Zodiac, and GP32 / GPX2 are of a similar size and shape too. Just don't go the route of the WonderSwan and put the buttons in such an awkward position that makes it impossible to play!!! PDA size is perfect, so long as the battery life is good and the unit is comfortable to use. As mentioned above, the Nomad and Lynx were too bulky (In my opinion, both consoles were ahead of their time and they wanted too much too soon ~ The PSP is the evolution of these consoles)


If it were an upgraded Zodiac / GPX2 clone with better compatability, better screen, better battery life, and with the main intention to run hi-end emulator's, then I would buy one at any price. If you could make a system that would run all emulator's perfectly upto PSX and N64, and had good storage (Ie, maybe an internal hard drive ~ iPod's have 80GB hard drives now...), then it could work. Oh, and also assuming it had good connectability too

[monkeychemist]

Thanks everyone for your input. I will do my best to incorporate everything and get this handheld ready soon. I will give updates as we reach landmarks.

Jeremy

[MrSparkle]

I think the two main concerns here are with design aspects. People are going to compare it with PDA's and / or Gizmondo, Zodiac, and GP32 / GPX2 etc.



the the gp32 and gpx2 are pretty much what im thinking here. I never really considered them to be pdas more of an open source handheld gaming platform. But they've actually gotten a bit tricky to come across these days. that being said there are several dozen generic little handheld platforms out on the market right now. But if someone on dp puts one out you can be sure its going to win some major points over the others in my book just by default lol. If you build it we will buy.

[DeputyMoniker]

To sell it to me, you would really have to set it apart from the competition, which includes quite a lot of players. It sounds like you're describing the G1 without a phone and with a controller. I like your idea and I would like to have one, but I wouldn't buy it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

So ... for the benefit of those who don't check the dates on threads while skimming/reding - since this thread is about a year old ...

... has there been any progress on the development of this device?

[MrSparkle]

Hmm weird now i dont even remember how i came across this dead for a year thread... odd.