65nm chips in production, 45nm chips coming soon (360)

[diskoboy]

Excellent news for people on the shelf about buying a 360!!!!


http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/01/65nm-360-chips-in-production-last-two-quarters-45nm-on-the-w/

[Icarus Moonsight]

Since I fall into the "extreamly paranoid" group I'll wait for the 45's. I'll also wait and give 'em a good amount of time to be sure The Ring has been destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom. Way to go hobbits... err... I mean MS. :p Good news indeed.

[heybtbm]

I wonder if there will be any way to tell the difference between the old hot chips and the 65nm chip 360's? I would imagine there would be a model number change similar to what Sony did with the numerous 1st generation PS1 and PS2 revisions (ex. SCPH-1000 vs. SCPH-3000). Otherwise I would think the RROD 360's will still be in retail channels until well after Christmas '07.

[kaedesdisciple]

So hopefully by the time mine breaks I'll have one of these. Awesome.

[Damaramu]

Whew. Glad I'm waiting....though those cheap core units coming up are extremely tempting, if the rumors be true (come on, 3 separate ads?)

[RyanMurf]

Since I fall into the "extreamly paranoid" group I'll wait for the 45's. I'll also wait and give 'em a good amount of time to be sure The Ring has been destroyed in the fires of Mount Doom. Way to go hobbits... err... I mean MS. :p Good news indeed.

This is what I dont understand. The warranty is 3 years now. So even if you buy the console now, when it dies in a few months to a year you can just get yourself the one with the 65 or 45 NM chips. Why wait go ahead and buy the console you cant loose anymore when buying a 360!

[diskoboy]

This is what I dont understand. The warranty is 3 years now. So even if you buy the console now, when it dies in a few months to a year you can just get yourself the one with the 65 or 45 NM chips. Why wait go ahead and buy the console you cant loose anymore when buying a 360!

Becuase all MS will do is keep the same components currently in your 360.

So if your 90nm craps out, they'll replace it with another 90nm chip. Even well after the 45nm chips are out.

changing chips means a (hopefully) improved mobo, as well. The new chips probably wont be compatible with the current/older mobo's. But it would be great news if they are...

Infact, I'll still bet they're probably just gonna re-design the 360 when the 45nm's are close to coming out. Make it a little smaller, and hopefully replace the DVD9 drive with the HD-DVD drive.

[Lothars]

hopefully replace the DVD9 drive with the HD-DVD drive.

that will never happen

[RyanMurf]

Becuase all MS will do is keep the same components currently in your 360.

So if your 90nm craps out, they'll replace it with another 90nm chip. Even well after the 45nm chips are out.

changing chips means a (hopefully) improved mobo, as well. The new chips probably wont be compatible with the current/older mobo's. But it would be great news if they are...

Infact, I'll still bet they're probably just gonna re-design the 360 when the 45nm's are close to coming out. Make it a little smaller, and hopefully replace the DVD9 drive with the HD-DVD drive.

Not correct! They would not replace the xbox 360 with another 90NM If they would do that it would defeat the purpose of making the65/45 in the first place!!?

[diskoboy]

Not correct! They would not replace the xbox 360 with another 90NM If they would do that it would defeat the purpose of making the65/45 in the first place!!?

It all comes down to money.

Just like the PC market, chips get cheaper over time. It would be cheaper for MS to replace the 90nm chips than throw out the chips and mobo, and replace all the hardware.

But this is only for people who currently have the 90nm chips. The people that buy the new chips will get replaced with the new ones, should they need them.

[djbeatmongrel]

Nice to hear that this new chips are moving along. once theres confirmation on the reliabilty of the newer model 360s i think i'd finally buy one.

[ProgrammingAce]

This is what I dont understand. The warranty is 3 years now. So even if you buy the console now, when it dies in a few months to a year you can just get yourself the one with the 65 or 45 NM chips. Why wait go ahead and buy the console you cant loose anymore when buying a 360!

Because exchanging consoles is a giant pain in the ass and it sucks to be without your console for 2+ weeks. Especially when Microsoft is just as likely to send you back another 90nm unit.


Becuase all MS will do is keep the same components currently in your 360.

So if your 90nm craps out, they'll replace it with another 90nm chip. Even well after the 45nm chips are out.

changing chips means a (hopefully) improved mobo, as well. The new chips probably wont be compatible with the current/older mobo's. But it would be great news if they are...


1), It's impractical to remove the CPU of a 360, even with the soldering skills of a god.

2), The 65mn chip will be physically smaller then the current design, so it wouldn't fit anyway.

[AMG]

All this mess makes me happy that I've waited on picking up an Xbox 360.

I'll get one when all the problems have been sorted out, and the lemons are no longer on the retail shelf.

[boatofcar]

Not correct! They would not replace the xbox 360 with another 90NM If they would do that it would defeat the purpose of making the65/45 in the first place!!?

Umm...how are those two things related? The new 360s will have new motherboards to house the smaller chips.

[RyanMurf]

Because exchanging consoles is a giant pain in the ass and it sucks to be without your console for 2+ weeks. Especially when Microsoft is just as likely to send you back another 90nm unit.



1), It's impractical to remove the CPU of a 360, even with the soldering skills of a god.

2), The 65mn chip will be physically smaller then the current design, so it wouldn't fit anyway.

Now lets think logicly here? Lets go out in a year and a half and buy a solid 360 or we can go out now and buy one and risk it going in for 2 weeks for a repair (1 year V.S. 2 weeks)

[ProgrammingAce]

Now lets think logicly here? Lets go out in a year and a half and buy a solid 360 or we can go out now and buy one and risk it going in for 2 weeks for a repair (1 year V.S. 2 weeks)

What if you felt that the new 65nm board/system design doesn't adequately address the issues at hand?

There's an underlying issue in the 360 case design that has yet to be addressed. The system creates a vacuum inside the case, making it run much hotter then it should. Even with the original board design, if you were to run the system with the case open, it would probably never fail.

The way it works now, you're forcing more air out of the case then the tiny holes on the side can let in. Net result, vacuum.

The question is, will Microsoft be willing to modify their "iconic" design to allow better airflow? I think we all know the answer to that...

[RyanMurf]

Yes i Know this but thanks for the reminder. Yes the vacum effect will always be there but the chips will run cooler still lowering the temp. hopefuly not to warp the board.

[SkiDragon]

I was not aware of the whole vacuum issue. I assume forcing more air in would resolve this, but dare I ponder if partially restricting the outflow would also help?

Either way, does somebody know how to tell if a 360 has the smaller chips, from the serial number or otherwise? I take it the chips aren't out quite yet. I just bought a 360 at a good deal, but with the coming sale/price drop and chip improvement, I wonder if I should return the (unopened) 360 or not.

[RARusk]

"There's an underlying issue in the 360 case design that has yet to be addressed. The system creates a vacuum inside the case, making it run much hotter then it should. Even with the original board design, if you were to run the system with the case open, it would probably never fail."

Interesting. Would drilling some holes into the top of the X360 case help deal with this? Or even cutting a chunk out of the top and placing a grille in it to give the mobo some additional air?

[skaar]

Seriously, these whole "I'll just wait for the good one." people don't make any sense to me.

You have a three year warranty for your unit. If you have ANY issues, you get a new one. And if you have to wait two weeks for a new one how is that worse than not playing any new 360 games for two bloody years?

Buck up already. That's the same logic that has people never buying laptops because "There will always be a cheaper one. The price will drop."

Get in the pool already. Play with the other kids.

[ProgrammingAce]

Interesting. Would drilling some holes into the top of the X360 case help deal with this? Or even cutting a chunk out of the top and placing a grille in it to give the mobo some additional air?

I can't say i recommend it, there's a greater chance of doing harm then good. In all honesty i'd say to leave it alone and send it back to microsoft if it breaks.

Just for the record, i bought my 3rd 360 yesterday. I'm not exactly loosing any sleep over the reliability. Personally i'm recomending mid-august as the best time for anyone who's looking to pick up a system.

The 360 can sink or float on it's own merits, it's just that knowing what I know about the system it kinda sucks that MS hasn't made significant changes yet.

[KeyserSoze61]

Seriously, these whole "I'll just wait for the good one." people don't make any sense to me.

You have a three year warranty for your unit. If you have ANY issues, you get a new one. And if you have to wait two weeks for a new one how is that worse than not playing any new 360 games for two bloody years?

Actually, from what I have read, the warranty is very specific to the RROD problem. Additionally, with stories of people having to replace the console often (and with their shoddy customer service), I currently have no desire to drop ~$400 on one. If your console needs to be sent in, the chances are likely that you will simply receive a refurbished unit that simply has bandaid heatsinks added on.

Personally, I would rather wait until they properly develop the console and test it. Why would I drop so much money on what is ~40% likely to fail? If this new MOBO design and chipset solves the problem, I will consider buying one. For the time being, I am happy to avoid the hassle while investing my money elsewhere.

[KeyserSoze61]

The 360 can sink or float on it's own merits, it's just that knowing what I know about the system it kinda sucks that MS hasn't made significant changes yet.

It's frustrating to me as well. I certainly would have purchased the system by now if they had worked out most of the problems. Personally, I place value in having reliable consoles/computers. I refuse to be an early adopter when new technology comes out -- there are always problems that need to be fixed. The PS2 launch, the Xbox Thompson drives, etc. What is so disappointing is that MS has taken such a piss poor approach to fixing their problems.

I like being able to play my Sega Saturn now, despite it being 12 years old. I realize that the moving parts (cd drive, lens) will eventually go, but such things can typically be repaired. As of now, however, the 360 clearly has some fatal design flaws that will limit its useful life.

[skaar]

Actually, from what I have read, the warranty is very specific to the RROD problem. Additionally, with stories of people having to replace the console often (and with their shoddy customer service), I currently have no desire to drop ~$400 on one. If your console needs to be sent in, the chances are likely that you will simply receive a refurbished unit that simply has bandaid heatsinks added on.

Personally, I would rather wait until they properly develop the console and test it. Why would I drop so much money on what is ~40% likely to fail? If this new MOBO design and chipset solves the problem, I will consider buying one. For the time being, I am happy to avoid the hassle while investing my money elsewhere.

I see the failure rates and I think back to issues at launch and near paranoia about the power supplies. Consoles are now computers in compact chassis (what the hell is the proper pluralization of that word?) and should be treated as such. My 360 sits on an open glass shelf on the bottom of my TV stand with 6 inches to either side, 6 open on top and nothing behind. The power supply sits on hardwood floor behind with a bunch of cables... and space around it to allow for heat.

I think a lot of issues may be attributable to users not affording the console any space or respect based on the heat it produces. I mean hell, I still have some home user clients who run their PCs in enclosed desks - people don't respect the heat!

Cooler chips will help, but for crying out loud - take care of the thing. There are fans for a reason!

[heybtbm]

Actually, from what I have read, the warranty is very specific to the RROD problem.

The "RROD problem" covers every problem. The 3 red rings indicate a whole host of errors with the 360, not just overheating. If anything goes wrong with the system, MS will replace it (or parts of it), end of story.

[jajaja]

I wouldnt exactly say soon when it comes to 45nm chips. They are comming out in late 2008, early 2009.


"As 65nm just started production in the last two quarters, you would expect 45nm to about 18 months from that timeframe," said the President of Microsoft manufacturing partner, Charted Semiconductor. [b]That means production on those new even smaller and even cooler chips won't begin until late 2008, early 2009.

But its good that the 65nm chips are comming :) Hopefully the consoles wont get so hot then.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm waiting and that's that. Is it too much to ask that consoles last for over a decade, like so many others I own have? Perhaps it has become unreasonable in light of recent offerings. The original run PS1/2's were a shitty experience for me that I won't soon forget. I don't have to "get in the pool". I'll be in the sauna with a towel over my lap until shit gets straight. Looks like I'll be taking a dip sometime in 2010. :)

[skaar]

Your loss, man. We'll go have fun without you ;)