Nintendo = Lack of effort [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

Gemini-Phoenix

08-10-2007, 11:07 AM

This may seem like quite a rant, and may offend some of the Nintendo fan-boy's out there, but I feel this is an issue that needs addressing.

Nintendo seem to just be recycling old generation games and giving them a more modern update every generation, rather than produce new franchises or trying new ideas. Lately i've noticed Nintendo just develop a sub-par game and give an existing character priority, such as Mario, Kirby, DK, or Wario.

Take Kirby for example. When was the last time Kirby had a decent dedicated game? Crystal Shards on the N64? Amazing Mirror on the GBA? Since then, we've had how many Kirby games that have just been sub-par? Air-Ride could've been labelled with any Nintendo character in my opinion, and it seems the last two Kirby DS games were mediocre games and simply given the Kirby make-over (Power Paintbrush and Mouse Attack) ~ These would have still been the same games had they featured Waluigi or even Birdo. Lol.

DK hasn't had a "Proper" game since Donkey Kong 64. The peak of DK's career was the three Donkey Kong Country games on the SNES. Since the N64 game, he had a number of spin-off music titles on the GameCube , and a few novelty titles on the GBA (King Of Swings and Mario Vs DK) which I don't count as "Proper" DK games, as well as a few rereleased SNES games. Again, on the DS he has had sequels to these spin-off GBA games, with no sign of a "Proper" DK game at all. Whatever happened to a sequel to DK 64? Donkey Kong Country 4 would be nice for the Wii, or even DS...

As far as Wario is concerned, his games are a joke. The WarioWare games would still be teh same regardless of what major character was involved. A mini-game is a mini-game, and would've worked with King Koopa as the host. The game would've been the same. Seems again, Nintendo just plastered Wario all over it in order to make it sell better.

Don't even get me started on all those Mario themed sports titles. Golf. Tennis. Baseball. Football even. Again, Nintendo have developed a game and included Mario related characters. The games would've played the same regardless of what the characters were.

Nintendo seem to be churning out all these first paty titles, but how many of them are actually "Proper" games in their own right, and not just a quick cash-in or step-stone to keep the punters happy between these "Proper" titles? Every generation they do it, and every generation they get away with it, and like seagulls we all flock to buy the latest Mario spin-off game to keep us occupied inbetween the generation defining uber-title (In the case of the Wii, Super Mario Galaxy is the game we have all been waiting for ever since Super Mario Sunshine)

At the end of the day, Nintendo are no better than EA. Every generation now you are guaranteed that there's going to be a generic Metroid game; A generic Mario game; A generic Pokemon game; A generic Super Smash Bros game; A generic Zelda game etc... Seems to me that Nintendo are relying solely on the success of selling us updated versions of franchises from the previous generation.

If it ain't broke...

geneshifter

08-10-2007, 11:23 AM

Apollo

08-10-2007, 11:32 AM

I agree and disagree with your statement. I'm not happy with the direction of how some franchises are going, but your statement contradicts itself. You criticize Nintendo for being the same games over and over, but then you criticize them when they do something different. It makes no sense.

joedick

08-10-2007, 11:32 AM

I'm not sure I agree with a lot of these points. You're saying that Nintendo isn't "trying new ideas", though to me it seems like that's pretty much been what they've been all about this gen with the DS and Wii.

True, some franchises return year after year (Mario Party), but nintendo has been publishing some new franchises as well. They're just not as hyped, and they aren't all mascots.

On the Cube there was Chibi Robo, Pikmin, Odama, Animal Crossing, and Eternal Darkness, just off the top of my head. They also took some franchises in new directions with Metroid Prime and DK Jungle Beat. And could you say Wind Waker wasn't taking a chance?

On the DS we've seen Hotel Dusk, Nintendogs, Elektroplankton, Elite Beat Agents, and Professor Layton is coming this year. Again, all published by Nintendo. Not to mention established franchises like Zelda going in a new direction with touch screen control.

For the wii, I'm looking forward to Endless Ocean and Disaster: Day of Crisis.

Sure you could argue that Nintendo is just publishing these games, but I guess you could say the same of the 'mario sports' games as well.

Not all of these games are good, but at least, to me, they are putting out some new product and even taking a bit of a chance on things like Hotel Dusk and Odama. And they don't have any mascots plastered over them.

Yes, the big games are coming out, but who is arguing about a new Metroid, Mario, and Smash Bros? I'm sure there are many out there who hope for more than one of these per generation.

Wolfrider31

08-10-2007, 11:38 AM

I'm feeling the same way about my Wii at the moment. Most of what I'm looking forward to doesn't have Nintendo's name on it. Zack and Wiki is getting my cash before any of the first party stuff that's coming out. I'm excited for Galaxy and Brawl, but half of that list is a warmed over GC game. Granted an warmed over EXCELLENT GC game, but still.

When I first saw the Wii my reaction was, "FINALLY! This is the gateway for truly artistic, truly SMART games." Nothing of the sort is coming down the line, and the only guys that are even somewhat half attempting to go in the direction are 3rd parties. Nintendo seems scared of its own creation.

This is why, in the next month or so I'll be the proud owner of a 360. Yes, there's a lot of "frat fuck" shovelware, but there's also some really brilliant stuff on it as well. And actually, its the stuff I was hoping the Wii would bring us more of.

Like the Spielberg game. The next gen consoles get to play this huge epic by the guy. What do us Wii owners get? Oooh, we get to play with blocks. Can we have a cookie before naptime too?

Dangerboy

08-10-2007, 11:38 AM

Yep.

Cuz Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Excite Truck, Nintendogs, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Battalian Wars, Brain Age, Big Brain, and others sure as fuck aren't original and new IPs.

Case in point:

Any person who complains about another system's "recycling of old generation games" and bears a FREAKING PS2 as their avatar needs to take a very long look in the mirror and figure out what "recycling" means.

walrusmonger

08-10-2007, 11:39 AM

I agree with G-P. Nintendo does the same thing each generation. You can't expect them to single handedly produce tons of new content for their consoles though, but in the past 3rd party people stayed away due to crappy sales.

Fanboys, Nintendo-Nuts and kids eat the crap up. Serious gamers play the games to enjoy something light hearted once in a while. Nintendo can release the same crap over and over, and it sells, while weird stuff like Odama sits on the shelves (the game really wasnt that great though), so they wont want to take as many chances.

Nintendo split and went in two paths, I like their handheld route, but their consoles have been going downhill since the N64.

Zing

08-10-2007, 11:50 AM

What, isn't Super Mario Bros Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3 innovative enough for you? :beaten:

I had always felt that Nintendo rehashed the same crap over and over, but it was that game and Super Mario 64 DS that really drove the point home.

Kid Ice

08-10-2007, 11:51 AM

You can't possibly compare Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and (!) EA, and tell me Nintendo is the one out of the group that doesn't "try new ideas". Give me a break.

Gemini-Phoenix

08-10-2007, 12:03 PM

I'm not debating that they aren't trying new things. The new things they do try are very good. But why release a game like Mario Smash Football again on the Wii which is just an update of the GameCube game? Again, Mario Party 8 is more of the same, and do we really need yet another Mario Party game? I'm also not saying that the games they do release are crap, as i'm all for sequalling games such as Metroid or Zelda. I'm saying that Nintendo are getting very predictable, and from the outset you could've laid good money on the Wii being allocated a Zelda game, a Pokemon game, a Metroid game, a Mario game, a Mario Party game, A Wario game etc...

As for the various sports titles... I'm sure that if the games were that good in the first place, they would've sold without having Mario plastered all over them. Mario Golf for example, could be compared to Everybody's Golf ~ That sold well and was quite popular, so why not just have "Nintendo Golf"? A cameo or two by a few Nintendo characters is to be expected, but why rely on Mario to push the game? Same can apply to all the other Nintendo sports games. Smash Football can be compared to Brutal Sports Football for example, or even the original Nintendo Football game on the GameBoy which did Ok considering it didn't have Mario in the title...

Oobgarm

08-10-2007, 12:08 PM

Any person who complains about another system's "recycling of old generation games" and bears a FREAKING PS2 as their avatar needs to take a very long look in the mirror and figure out what "recycling" means.

Post of the year.

But why release a game like Mario Smash Football again on the Wii which is just an update of the GameCube game?

Because they will make money. Don't forget, they are out to make money. And besides, it's obvious that the original game is fun, why not have more? There's always time for innovative stuff, too.

Skelix

08-10-2007, 12:11 PM

Video games are a business, the goal of a business is to make money. They are going to use names and titles that have made them the most money in the past.

Wiis and Nintendo products are selling really well right now, it's safe to say they're doing the right thing.

As far as the other systems, it's no different than the Final Fantasy name or Halo or whatever, all system are going to have their key money makers. All companies will exhaust these names.

I'm looking forward to getting my Wii later today, so I can see for myself these new motion controllers etc. I'm interested in trying it out, but ultimately I'm sure I'll be sticking to the 360.

Dangerboy

08-10-2007, 12:29 PM

I'm saying that Nintendo are getting very predictable, and from the outset you could've laid good money on the Wii being allocated a Zelda game, a Pokemon game, a Metroid game, a Mario game, a Mario Party game, A Wario game etc...

I'd have won more money on betting "Sony will drop so far down the creativity well that they'll use a SPIDER-MAN font for their $600 game system."

Also, I need to check that betting pool on whose had the 1 in 10,000 odds Sony wasn't going to release another God of War, Ratchet & Clank, MLB The Show, NBA 07, Genji, etc.

Not to mention, at least Microsoft and Nintendo can think up of better new system names than 2, 3, 4 >_>

We should get Anthony1 involved in this; we could have all these bets displayed in beautiful RGB.

FAMOUS

08-10-2007, 12:34 PM

All i want to say is the Wii is for a younger audience and the casual gamer, thats why they make these goofy @ss games! When i say younger audience i mean that they dont care about tactics or graphics just pop in and throw around the controler.. For the price its probably worth it but the games are just to kiddie and lack a challenge, overall im not a Wii fan, 64 and nes im ok with cause theres a better variety of games..dont hate just my 2cents

Cinder6

08-10-2007, 12:51 PM

What's been bugging me is that Nintendo has been taking old mascots that we know and love and putting into games totally out of their element--how many more sports games has Mario been in than platformers? It's things like this that really irritate me, because it dilutes the brand name. I'd rather see the character get discontinued than put up with all this side crap.

That's right, I'd rather kill off Mario than put up with Mario Party 37 and Mario Extreme Shuffleboard.

FAMOUS

08-10-2007, 12:54 PM

That's right, I'd rather kill off Mario than put up with Mario Party 37 and Mario Extreme Shuffleboard.
:above me:

Apollo

08-10-2007, 12:55 PM

ubersaurus

08-10-2007, 12:56 PM

But why release a game like Mario Smash Football again on the Wii which is just an update of the GameCube game?

Because the wii sequel is fucking AWESOME? :P

Nintendo likes money, and these games sell. Why put Mario in these sports games instead of other characters? Because Mario is established. He's got a universe full of characters to use, he's got a distinct and known personality, and generally speaking, if you see Mario in the name, you know it's going to be pretty good, and fun. Hence, more sales.

GrandAmChandler

08-10-2007, 12:58 PM

Most of it has been already said by other members but here is my take on it.

Anyone who changes the way video games are played = Much Effort.

To name their system "Wii" = Balls of Effort.

-GAC-

Apollo

08-10-2007, 01:02 PM

Also, as said before, the ultimate goal of a company is to make money. The second is customer satisfaction. not to say that Nintendo hasn't been doing a great job accommodating the consumers, but you have to remember that Nintendo isn't your own personal developer.

For those complaining about sequel-itis, look at Sony. Microsoft isn't as bad with sequels, IMO. I think they're doing a great job considering how new they are to the market, with the exception of the 360 heatsink fiasco.

CosmicMonkey

08-10-2007, 01:24 PM

We should get Anthony1 involved in this; we could have all these bets displayed in beautiful RGB.

rofl

And I'm not too bothered about Nintendo's blatant franchise milking. It's a very, very different approach to how EA milk a title. But then again, if you're really that into Football, Fifa 2008/9 is probably an exciting prospect. Me, I couldn't give a shit and I'll throw a proper girly strop if Nintendo don't bloody release Pilotwings for the Wii in the near future.

diskoboy

08-10-2007, 01:38 PM

FAMOUS

08-10-2007, 01:46 PM

The Wii is definitely a "kiddy" system, especially with the enemies in the Wii edition of Resident Evil 4 bleeding out candy and sunshine. Definitely.
The *adults* have already seen these bloody candies pour out on the GC, so why would we Replay an older title? So i can hold my control and wiggle it when a scary monster trys to eat my neck!:moon:

Apollo

08-10-2007, 01:49 PM

The *adults* have already seen these bloody candies pour out on the GC, so why would we Replay an older title? So i can hold my control and wiggle it when a scary monster trys to eat my neck!:moon:

1) Wii edition has all of the updates form the PS2 version, so poeple who bought the GC version but not the PS2 can play this for a reduced price.

2) Only $30.

3) Aiming feels so much more natural, so much quicker due to Wii controls.

4) Simply put, it's a great game.

ubersaurus

08-10-2007, 01:52 PM

I think Nintendo just needs to come up with some new characters.

Mario and the gang are still great, but it's like Nintendo has run out of ideas, completely. Day of Crisis, yeah.... But that's it??

And seriously, Nintendo needs to stop making Kart and Mario Party games, one after the other. Once every few years is fine, but not once evey 4 months... It tends to get real old, real quick.

Um, they do make new Kart games like once every few years. DS was what, 2005? Wii is 2008. Double Dash is 2003. GBA one was 2001, N64 one was 1997, and SNES one was 1992. There's at least a 2 year gap between most of them.

I can't excuse Mario Party though, but hell, they still sell really well, so I guess you gotta milk it.

but to say that they have no new characters is silly. They put out Geist. They put out Hotel Dusk, Trace Memory, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars, Chibi-Robo, Brain Age, Nintendogs, Custom Robo, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Cubivore, and you can honestly sit there and tell me they've done nothing but milk old franchises? The big difference is that their new franchises aren't as high profile because they're new, but they're still there.

Moo Cow

08-10-2007, 02:02 PM

Eggman

08-10-2007, 02:42 PM

Your first post completely contradicts itself. You say that Nintendo does nothing but recycle and stagnate ideas with bland sequels, then you also try to argue that they aren't sticking close enough to the original formula. You can't have it both ways, and I think Nintendo is doing perfectly fine. You get Warioware games, but also last year saw a new Wario platformer on the DS, as well as Wario World before that on the GC.

Over the last generation Nintendo brought some new franchises (Eternal Darkness, Geist, Pikmin, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem in the States, Animal Crossing, Custom Robo), put twists on old franchises (Jungle Beat, Mario Soccer, Wario Ware) and made faithful sequels to their beloved franchises (Twilight Princess, Sunshine, Star Fox Assault, Melee). I don't see how they could balance it out any more than they do, every generation they bring in new stuff yes, but they also make sure that they keep true to the series that people love. I don't see how your argument really works.

diskoboy

08-10-2007, 02:49 PM

1) Wii edition has all of the updates form the PS2 version, so poeple who bought the GC version but not the PS2 can play this for a reduced price.

2) Only $30.

3) Aiming feels so much more natural, so much quicker due to Wii controls.

4) Simply put, it's a great game.

I'll add one:

5) Some of us who only owned an Xbox last gen, never got to play RE4. I'm one of them... A generation later, it blew me away.

Jorpho

08-10-2007, 03:03 PM

Cuz Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit, Excite Truck, Nintendogs, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Battalian Wars, Brain Age, Big Brain, and others sure as fuck aren't original and new IPs.

Actually, Advance Wars was just the first of its kind to be released outside of Japan and has an extensive lineage (Famicom Wars, Game Boy Wars, etc).

Anyway, to address the original post: There were plenty of arguably mediocre Kirby games long before Crystal Shards (Kirby's Avalanche, Kirby's Block Ball, Kirby's Star Stacker, etc) and at least one lame Wario paste-in (Wario Blast) long before WarioWare. Rare and Nintendo have parted ways, ergo no more Donkey Kong Country. And let's not forget Virtual Boy Mario Tennis.

The usage of intellectual property in this manner is nothing new. There were good games before, there are good games now, there were arguably mediocre paste-ins in between, and so shall it ever be.

Hep038

08-10-2007, 04:22 PM

Where is rob2600 and 7th lutz? They love this kind of thread!!!:)

boatofcar

08-10-2007, 05:17 PM

You guys don't understand. G-P has got a red PS2. You don't. Shut up.

neuropolitique

08-10-2007, 05:26 PM

Nintendo suxs.

ssjlance

08-10-2007, 05:47 PM

I don't think Zelda is getting old. IMHO, Twilight Princess was the greatest Zelda since Ocarina of Time or A Link to the Past. Plus, you have to realize that Nintendo is a company, and companies do what makes the money. If a little kid who plays video games is in the store, and he sees Mario Tennis, he's much more likely to buy that than any other type of tennis. And the thing is, while they are obviously cashing in on Mario's popularity in cases like this, the games themselves are still loads of fun to play. I still dig out Mario's Tennis every now and then when I have friends over.

But, you're points are still pretty valid, even if you contradict yourself a little bit, LOL.

swlovinist

08-10-2007, 09:48 PM

I do not consider myself a fanboy, but I am a Nintendo Fan. I have to disagree with the original poster. New franschises? How about Brain Age? Nintendogs? Wii Sports? Wii Play? Nintendo would be dammed if they did not make a sequel for Mario, Metroid, and Zelda. While I agree that they are milking SOME of their franchises, it is NOWWHERE as bad as EA. It is not like Nintendo makes a Mario, Metroid, and Zelda each year like EA. As for innovation and leading the pack on gameplay, Nintendo is by far kicking ass and taking names. The DS and Wii are examples of how to game differently, even if some hardcore PS, PC and Xbox fanboys dont get it. I dont call 9.2 million Wiis sold a lack of effort, I call it a stroke of genius. If anything, I look at Microsoft and Sony at having the lack of effort to appeal to the casual gamer for the success of the Wii. If the Sony had a reality check on what people budget for their games and console, then the PS3 might be doing better. If MS bought a clue on how in the hell to not blow 1 billion dollars on hardware flaws, then they might have more people buying their systems. If anything, Nintendo is trying HARDER and putting in more effort to expand the gaming market. I actually like all three companies for totally different reasons. Of the three, I am dissapointed with Nintendo the least.

Cinder6

08-10-2007, 10:22 PM

Plus, you have to realize that Nintendo is a company, and companies do what makes the money.

I've seen a lot of people say this, both here and on other forums. On other forums (namely GameFAQs), people say it as a cop-out excuse, and/or to sound smugly superior, but I don't think that's what's happening here, so I'm going to respond to it :)

Yes, every company, at the core, is out to get money. There are very, very few altruistic companies that only exist to serve the greater good--and none of them are video game companies. So, yes, this may explain why Nintendo throws out legions of Mario sports games, even though they have nothing to do with what Mario's actually about.

It explains that fact, but does not excuse it. I don't have to go along with and like the fact that Nintendo just treats Mario as a cash cow, while making his platforming days a thing of the past (hopefully Galaxy will mark the change of this, but I'm pessimistic when it comes to Nintendo these days).

So my point is this: Just because Nintendo can use Mario as a "get richer quicker" scheme, doesn't mean they should. It's this, more than anything, that makes me hate Nintendo right now (and I own all of their consoles, excluding the Wii and the DS). Just look at Sonic--all the new Sonic games are just shovelware, yet they apparently sell well enough for Sega to keep dishing them out.

Of course, we gamers are also slightly to blame, as we keep buying it up.

</rambling rant>

Lothars

08-10-2007, 11:13 PM

I'm saying that Nintendo are getting very predictable, and from the outset you could've laid good money on the Wii being allocated a Zelda game, a Pokemon game, a Metroid game, a Mario game, a Mario Party game, A Wario game etc...

I'd have won more money on betting "Sony will drop so far down the creativity well that they'll use a SPIDER-MAN font for their $600 game system."

Also, I need to check that betting pool on whose had the 1 in 10,000 odds Sony wasn't going to release another God of War, Ratchet & Clank, MLB The Show, NBA 07, Genji, etc.

Not to mention, at least Microsoft and Nintendo can think up of better new system names than 2, 3, 4 >_>

Well I do agree with you on Nintendo thinking up a better names but Microsoft? Xbox - Xbox 360? hmm that's alot of thought into the names just like Sony who have no originality in the names, which I can't say is a bad or a good thing.

but no one can argue that all three of the companies will keep reusing their own properties over and over, it's not just Nintendo

RPG_Fanatic

08-10-2007, 11:29 PM

Push Upstairs

08-11-2007, 04:16 AM

WaLuigi is the biggest douche ever.

That is all.

p.s. this thread = :deadhorse:

playgeneration

08-11-2007, 04:46 AM

The main problem is Nintendo just don't have enough developers, which means the ones they have are all tied up doing franchise sequels, or the new mass appeal/limited gameplay styles games. Look at sega, at their best they had tons of developers, in-house teams and third parties working along side them, which mean't they had tons of quality games for us to buy, sure it didnt work out for them in the end, but Sega didn't have nintendos cash reserves.

Nintendo has stacks of cash now, so its about time they invested in either setting up more in-house development teams giving them a mandate of coming up with totally original games, or giving cash to third parties to ensure their games appear. The huge sales of wii and ds consoles means that its less important to throw money at third party devs to get games, but they still should do it because microsoft and sony do, and who wants them stealing all the best games.

G-Boobie

08-11-2007, 05:22 AM

I would argue that very little innovation has been done by ANYONE in the industry over the last two generations...

Nintendo is, after all, a business, and in the end they need to keep not only their fans happy, but their stockholders. Innovation is seldom rewarded by consumers, unfortunately.

You are, of course, right about the strip mining of Nintendo's intellectual property, absolutely. But since those same games sell very well, there isn't much need to explore new ideas.

Icarus Moonsight

08-11-2007, 10:14 AM

Nintendo = Lack of effort? Hmm... no. Actually, an emphatic NO.

Nintendo developes and/or publishes how many titles per year? I don't have a mean number to put to that, however, I would think that they release as many or more titles than Microsoft and Sony, combined, per year. If output is a result of effort than Ninty = Lack of effort is just not true.

Changing the way gamers control games, targeting everyone that breathes and producing a less powerful machine on purpose... that simply takes solid steel cajones.

I'm still waiting for Nintendo to fold as predicted a few years back. LOL You come back like gangbusters from a rumored demise through a lack of effort? Sorry, I can't buy that.

GP, I think you're confused. That or you actually have a valid point and just lack the ability to convey it to us. Figure your head out and try again latter once you got your finger on it.

Kid Ice

08-11-2007, 10:54 AM

So my point is this: Just because Nintendo can use Mario as a "get richer quicker" scheme, doesn't mean they should. It's this, more than anything, that makes me hate Nintendo right now (and I own all of their consoles, excluding the Wii and the DS). Just look at Sonic--all the new Sonic games are just shovelware, yet they apparently sell well enough for Sega to keep dishing them out.

Would you say any of the titles featuring Mario are shovelware?

dave2236

08-11-2007, 11:45 AM

Would you say any of the titles featuring Mario are shovelware?

Coming from a sales standpoint and from someone who ownes a used game store. I never have enough Mario's, Zelda's, or Donkey Kongs in our store. I get phone calls all day long looking for any and every mario game...and Wii systems.

Hell I think they should start adding Mario to every game. Make him a playable character in Resident Evil 4, Tony Hawk, Medal Of Honor, Call of Duty, Madden, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and especially GTA. :)

Push Upstairs

08-11-2007, 03:27 PM

Shh....Nintendo will hear you!

Next year will see the release of "Mario Skateboarders" and "New Super Mario Bros. 2: Fall of the The Third Reich".

Cinder6

08-11-2007, 04:43 PM

Would you say any of the titles featuring Mario are shovelware?

Some. I can't say I've played all of them, though. I'll admit I don't like sports games to begin with, so when I see a character I once loved featured in a bunch of sports games, I can't help but get somewhat upset. I'm probably not the best person to ask on this subject :)

Moo Cow

08-11-2007, 05:38 PM

Actually, Advance Wars was just the first of its kind to be released outside of Japan and has an extensive lineage (Famicom Wars, Game Boy Wars, etc).

Anyway, to address the original post: There were plenty of arguably mediocre Kirby games long before Crystal Shards (Kirby's Avalanche, Kirby's Block Ball, Kirby's Star Stacker, etc) and at least one lame Wario paste-in (Wario Blast) long before WarioWare. Rare and Nintendo have parted ways, ergo no more Donkey Kong Country. And let's not forget Virtual Boy Mario Tennis.

The usage of intellectual property in this manner is nothing new. There were good games before, there are good games now, there were arguably mediocre paste-ins in between, and so shall it ever be.

Nintendo got to keep the rights to Donkey Kong.

neuropolitique

08-11-2007, 07:36 PM

Some. I can't say I've played all of them, though. I'll admit I don't like sports games to begin with, so when I see a character I once loved featured in a bunch of sports games, I can't help but get somewhat upset. I'm probably not the best person to ask on this subject :)

I don't get how someone can be upset about that. "Oh noes! A character I like is in a game type I don't like!" So what?

I see Mario in a game as a stamp of quality. I avoid every soccer game, but I had a ton of fun with Super Mario Strikers. People couldn't drag me away from that damn game. Would it have been as fun without Mario in it, sure. Would I have played it, no way. I wouldn't have even given it a second look. That's why Mario is in so many games.

Cinder6

08-11-2007, 07:58 PM

I don't get how someone can be upset about that. "Oh noes! A character I like is in a game type I don't like!" So what?

I see Mario in a game as a stamp of quality. I avoid every soccer game, but I had a ton of fun with Super Mario Strikers. People couldn't drag me away from that damn game. Would it have been as fun without Mario in it, sure. Would I have played it, no way. I wouldn't have even given it a second look. That's why Mario is in so many games.

As I've said before, it bothers me to see a character so out of his element, because (IMO) it signals that the company (Nintendo in this case) is only using him only as a cash cow, by trying to throw him into every genre and catch as many sales as possible through brand recognition only.

Kid Ice

08-12-2007, 12:28 AM

As I've said before, it bothers me to see a character so out of his element, because (IMO) it signals that the company (Nintendo in this case) is only using him only as a cash cow, by trying to throw him into every genre and catch as many sales as possible through brand recognition only.

I don't believe that's entirely true. If they arbitrarily attached Mario to a game (let's say, Custom Robo or Pikmin) I would agree. But the games that Mario is featured in have a similar style and structure. Yes they are using the Mario character to generate sales, of course, I just don't agree that they "throw" him into games.

Cinder6

08-12-2007, 12:33 AM

I don't believe that's entirely true. If they arbitrarily attached Mario to a game (let's say, Custom Robo or Pikmin) I would agree. But the games that Mario is featured in have a similar style and structure. Yes they are using the Mario character to generate sales, of course, I just don't agree that they "throw" him into games.

Well, I've already admitted I haven't played them all. Maybe if I played more of them, I'd see the pattern.

I do have a confession, though. There is one Mario sports game that I love. Yes, love. Mario Tennis...for the Virtual Boy. I remember thinking the N64 version was far inferior, back in the day.

zektor

08-12-2007, 01:15 AM

I agree and that's why my Wii has been sold. Just nothing all that great on it yet. And, I can't stand the thought of playing yet another metroid game that looks like prime. Prime was good at the time of release but now a third one? Plus, the mini-games just all got boring after a while. Mario galaxy doesn't look good to me, either :/ Maybe I'm dead inside, but I'm enjoying my 360 1000x more than I did my Wii. It seems I'm in the minority, though :)

Not a minority. I sold mine a week ago myself....

Great system, don't get me wrong. But, nothing that really blows me away. I am not talking graphically, just no games right now that I am hooked on. I needed to make some other purchases, so I sold it. When it picks up, maybe I'll pick one up again. Like you said, everything just kind of got boring after awhile. I had a feeling that this would happen...at least to me :)

Rob2600

08-12-2007, 05:54 PM

why release a game like Mario Smash Football again on the Wii which is just an update of the GameCube game?

Perhaps you should ask Electronic Arts, the masters of recycling. To someone like me who isn't a diehard sports nut, EA's sports games are nearly identical year after year. Yet, over a million people continue to spend over $50 on them.

At least with the Wii, we get new, fresh control schemes.

I sold mine a week ago myself. ... Like you said, everything just kind of got boring after awhile.

The same can be said for almost every video game console's library during the first year. How many NES games were amazing during its first year? How about the Genesis? PlayStation? PlayStation 2? Xbox 360?

The Wii launched less than nine months ago...and with a highly-rated Legend of Zelda game! To me, it's library is off to a good start.

Rob2600

08-12-2007, 07:24 PM

Where is rob2600 and 7th lutz? They love this kind of thread!!!:)

I'm here! Ready?

Super Mario Bros Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3 ... I had always felt that Nintendo rehashed the same crap over and over, but it was that game and Super Mario 64 DS that really drove the point home.

I disagree. Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, my friends and I had always hoped Nintendo would release portable versions of the NES and SNES so we could play our favorite games wherever we'd go. With the release of the Game Boy Advance and the DS, our hopes had finally come true.

It's a win-win situation for Nintendo and for gamers like me. Nintendo makes easy money and I get to play some of my favorite video games wherever I go, whether it be on the subway, on my lunch break at work, on line at the DMV, etc. I am no longer tethered to my TV if I want to play classics like Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, etc.

(Regarding Resident Evil 4) why would we replay an older title?

This has been going on for years. All of the Resident Evil games were rereleased for the Dreamcast and GameCube. Resident Evil - Code: Veronica was rereleased for the PlayStation 2. Remember? Resident Evil 4 being rereleased on the Wii should come as no surprise.

Besides, when I worked at one of the big video game chain stores, one of the reasons people bought the PlayStation 2 was because they could replay their old PlayStation games on it. People like replaying old games.

overall im not a Wii fan, 64 and nes im ok with cause theres a better variety of games.

You're right, the NES and N64 libraries both feature a wider variety of games. You're forgetting one important factor though: the Wii was released less than nine months ago. For a fair comparison, we'll need to look at the Wii's library five years from now.

Nintendo are getting very predictable, and from the outset you could've laid good money on the Wii being allocated a Zelda game, a Pokemon game, a Metroid game, a Mario game, a Mario Party game, A Wario game etc...

The same could be said for the Xbox 360, the PlayStation 3, and almost every other video game console ever created. There's another Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden, Gran Turismo, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Ridge Racer, etc. It's to be expected.

The DS and Wii are examples of how to game differently, even if some hardcore PS, PC and Xbox fanboys dont get it. I dont call 9.2 million Wiis sold a lack of effort, I call it a stroke of genius. If MS bought a clue on how in the hell to not blow 1 billion dollars on hardware flaws, then they might have more people buying their systems.

Amen. According to the podcast Windows Weekly with Paul Thurrott and Leo Laporte, 30 to 50 percent of Xbox 360 consoles are defective. That's insane.

Just because Nintendo can use Mario as a "get richer quicker" scheme, doesn't mean they should. ... Just look at Sonic--all the new Sonic games are just shovelware

Kid Ice asked, "Would you say any of the titles featuring Mario are shovelware?" Unless a new Mario Is Missing game is released, Mario games are not shovelware. True, many games feature Mario, but they consistently receive positive reviews and high ratings. How is that bad?

Nintendo has stacks of cash now, so its about time they invested in either setting up more in-house development teams giving them a mandate of coming up with totally original games, or giving cash to third parties to ensure their games appear.

What are you talking about? Third party support has been great on the Wii and DS and continues to improve. Meanwhile, the Xbox 360 brand slowly collapses in on itself with the insane number of faulty machines and bad press. Likewise for Sony and the PlayStation 3...poor management, stupid pricing, rehashed controllers (again), and bad press.

Nintendo doesn't just have stacks of cash now. Believe it or not, it has had stacks of cash for over two decades. Nintendo has been and still is the most profitable company in video games, whether or not it is number one in hardware sales.

I'm still waiting for Nintendo to fold as predicted a few years back. L O L

I've heard those predictions on and off for a decade. L O L, indeed. :)

How'd I do, Hep038?

esquire

08-12-2007, 09:32 PM

Perhaps you should ask Electronic Arts, the masters of recycling. To someone like me who isn't a diehard sports nut, EA's sports games are nearly identical year after year. Yet, over a million people continue to spend over $50 on them.

You're comparing apples and oranges. To equate yet another "Mario" sports game with the annual release of any professional sports league franchise tells me you just don't get it. EA and the Madden fans get bashed around in forums like these unjustly, and are dismissed as idiots.

In any of these games, the primary purpose is so that the gamers can play their favorite professional team in a simulated season, no different than rotisserie baseball or fantasy football, I would argue. Rosters change every year. Graphics may be improved. New gameplay options may be incorporated.

What changes with yet another reiteration of Mario Tennis or Baseball? A few added characters like Link or Bowser? Please.

I love Nintendo, but I am not a fanboy. I have to agree with the OP. I am also one that is getting tired of the same expected lineup on each and every new console Nintendo will be releasing. After the Wii, will it come as no surprise that the next Nintendo counsel will sport at least 3 Mario Party games, the usual Pokemon releases, Mario sport games (Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, Basketball - what's next Bowling? Badminton?), at least 2 kart games (Mario and Diddy Kong), 1 or 2 Zelda games, an "Excite" racing game, a "Wave" race game, etc, etc., etc.

No one is saying that other software companies are not doing the same, but other than release a few quirky games (Odama, Chibi-Robo) and a couple of games like Donkey Konga and Pikmin, Nintendo does not change things up, and their releases are a bit predictable to say the least.

Rob2600

08-12-2007, 09:53 PM

To equate yet another "Mario" sports game with the annual release of any professional sports league franchise tells me you just don't get it. EA and the Madden fans get bashed around in forums like these unjustly, and are dismissed as idiots.

In any of these games, the primary purpose is so that the gamers can play their favorite professional team in a simulated season, no different than rotisserie baseball or fantasy football, I would argue. Rosters change every year. Graphics may be improved. New gameplay options may be incorporated.

In my experience, any graphical improvements made to EA's sports games on any one console are minor and don't justify a $50 price tag every year. I understand that sports fans want updated rosters and new gameplay options. Now that online console gaming is a reality, why doesn't EA offer these small updates online via a patch for $10? I think that'd make more sense for consumers and would also introduce less waste into our environment.

Then again, millions of people pay $50 every year for these small updates and EA would be foolish to mess with success.

otoko

08-12-2007, 10:26 PM

You're comparing apples and oranges. To equate yet another "Mario" sports game with the annual release of any professional sports league franchise tells me you just don't get it. EA and the Madden fans get bashed around in forums like these unjustly, and are dismissed as idiots.

In any of these games, the primary purpose is so that the gamers can play their favorite professional team in a simulated season, no different than rotisserie baseball or fantasy football, I would argue. Rosters change every year. Graphics may be improved. New gameplay options may be incorporated.

What changes with yet another reiteration of Mario Tennis or Baseball? A few added characters like Link or Bowser? Please.

I love Nintendo, but I am not a fanboy. I have to agree with the OP. I am also one that is getting tired of the same expected lineup on each and every new console Nintendo will be releasing. After the Wii, will it come as no surprise that the next Nintendo counsel will sport at least 3 Mario Party games, the usual Pokemon releases, Mario sport games (Tennis, Baseball, Soccer, Basketball - what's next Bowling? Badminton?), at least 2 kart games (Mario and Diddy Kong), 1 or 2 Zelda games, an "Excite" racing game, a "Wave" race game, etc, etc., etc.

No one is saying that other software companies are not doing the same, but other than release a few quirky games (Odama, Chibi-Robo) and a couple of games like Donkey Konga and Pikmin, Nintendo does not change things up, and their releases are a bit predictable to say the least.

There. I love when someone disproves themselves. Think about it will you. Your saying that sports games that come out incorporate new and exciting things? To quote you on the character adding "please". EA only adds new things once they move to a console that will allow it. Basically the only changes from game year to game year are teams. This is where I start not understand sports fans. They're crazy... at least Nintendo will change up the levels...

WanganRunner

08-13-2007, 07:41 AM

DK hasn't had a "Proper" game since Donkey Kong 64.

DK Junglebeat wasn't a "Proper" game? I thought it was a brilliant game....and nice and unconventional.

Eteric Rice

08-14-2007, 02:20 PM

The Wii will probably start getting more interesting stuff next year (from third parties).

Considering Galaxy, Metroid, and Smash are coming soon, I'm happy with my Wii. :)

heybtbm

08-14-2007, 02:33 PM

The same can be said for almost every video game console's library during the first year. How many NES games were amazing during its first year? How about the Genesis? PlayStation? PlayStation 2? Xbox 360?

To be fair, most 1st-gen Genesis titles were "amazing" and recognized as such at the time. Not a major point...just clarifiying.

jcalder8

08-14-2007, 03:22 PM

Thank heavens someone finally brought this up. I mean all you have to do is look at the system each company brought out.

360: Online play and 3 pretty red lights
PS3: Blu Ray and a high price tag
Wii: Motion sensing controller and some stupid game that comes with the system

I mean come on how could Nintendo of all companies put in such little effort. I've been using my power glove since the 90s and all they did was take it apart and put it in a controller.

Even just looking at each companies killer games for the systems at launch. MSG 4 they have made Snake look older, thats not the kind of thing you come up with over night. You need a dedicated crew to come up with something that earth shattering. Or what about Halo 3 they made a whole button that does something new. I mean they've already brought out 2 of them but they waited until the 3rd before they revolutionized the world with the new button. Watch out Spinal Tap in Halo 4 they are going to 12 on the dial. Then you have Zelda Twilight Princess, who wants to pretend to fish or feel like they are pulling back on a bow. Fuck that! Make Link older and give us a new button.

And then there was E3 Wii Fucking Fit???? My buddies and I have been playing that since grade school. Its just the power pad after all. I think I drew up plans for almost the same thing for the SNES.

This is why I only play Mario Bros. I mean why would Nintendo get away from the one screen and start side scrolling. Isn't that good enough for everyone since everyone likes the same thing? I think it must just be that Nintendo is out to trick people and make them think they are buying a game with only the one screen and then when they get it home its too late.

ubersaurus

08-14-2007, 03:51 PM

To be fair, most 1st-gen Genesis titles were "amazing" and recognized as such at the time. Not a major point...just clarifiying.

I also recall the genesis not really taking off until Sonic came out. Honestly, I don't know many people who were all about Sega until Sonic was the pack in. So clearly for all the "amazing" first gen games for the genesis, they apparently weren't driving sales all that well.

Rob2600

08-14-2007, 04:04 PM

And then there was E3 Wii Fucking Fit???? My buddies and I have been playing that since grade school. Its just the power pad after all.

I know your post was sarcastic, but you're right: the Wii Balance Board is the next-generation Power Pad. I'm excited to try it out.

onReload

08-14-2007, 04:48 PM

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to mention developers...I think it's not that they don't have enough good development teams, it's just that they lost their truly great 3rd party supporters around the time optical media came into play. Think about some of the great games for the SNES. Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, Donkey Kong Country. Square, Enix, Rare - where'd they go? Of course, one wonders how great they'd be anyway, what with Squareenix making all of two good games since leaving Nintendo, and Rare making...well...

Nintendo is great for trying new things with their hardware, they've proven. The problem for me, at least, is that, in America, they make a lot of promises with not a whole lot of payoff. Too much stuff wasn't getting followed up on, and too much stuff wasn't getting imported. I think things are changing, though. To see Wii get its online functionality moving is a huge step forward, in my eyes, since I didn't think they'd get the bloody ball rolling - it seemed they usually felt like the American market wasn't important enough. Whenever Nintendo did fulfill promises, it was usually top-notch. They don't rush out systems that will overheat for over 500 USD, or open the door for pirated-gaming.

Like someone already said, there haven't been ANY breakthroughs for the past few years. Personally, instead of bitching after release day, I'm waiting for prices to drop and games to debut. I'm doing the same thing with a PS3, of course - I'll just have to wait an extra year or so, while I wait for them to get a good model (hi, PS2, PS1 stillborns!), release great RPGs, and drop the price tag. My PS2 died so getting a PS3 with backwards compatibility opens up a huge game library. It was a good reason to get a DS - I didn't have a GBA so it opened two doors at once. While there have only been about a dozen or so 'must-have' games for DS IMHO (and not all are original), I can wait while exploring the huge GBA library.

As for slapping Mario on all the sports games... Claiming that calling it Nintendo Baseball wouldn't change the sales? Are you out of your mind? If anything you should join the rest of the irritated posters here and say it's bad that they use the series' names TOO MUCH...However, if you're going to make a non-realistic sports game, you need a theme, and an easy one is the Mario theme. It's familiar to the gamers, anyway. You think I want to play Nintendo Baseball with some newfangled made up character? Please. Baseball is like pulling teeth to me already - hearing Chuck Martinet's voice over fireballs is a lot more appealing (though I'm still not too interested).

And remember - not all (barely any) games coming out for the systems are created by the system creator.

I just wish Squareenix and Rare would return to the Nintendo family. Do you know how insane the FF or Banjo-Kazooie series would be with motion controls? Hell, FFX already had you input button/joystick movements to execute magical attacks, why not some Wii-mote spell casting?

FAMOUS

08-14-2007, 05:05 PM

I still stand firm on not being interested in the "Wii". Sure it might have a variety of games in the future, but will they be any good, thats the question? Will they be more silly sport games or just new sequals and prequals to hold the gamers off till a new title arrives...To be totally honest the only thing i can stand about the Wii is that you can download Streets of Rage and the 360 has YET to get it on the marketplace...thats it..Untill a good game comes out, im totally satisfied with the 360.

Eggman

08-14-2007, 05:34 PM

FAMOUS

08-14-2007, 06:59 PM

I don't see how you can have Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Smash Bros. all coming out this year, and not find something on the Wii that interests you.

Super maria galaxy is the only game that caught my eye on the Wii, but for prime and smash, ill stick to the classics.. There just squeezing all the juice out of these titles "prequals":frustrated:

Eteric Rice

08-14-2007, 10:42 PM

Super maria galaxy is the only game that caught my eye on the Wii, but for prime and smash, ill stick to the classics.. There just squeezing all the juice out of these titles "prequals":frustrated:

Smash is only on it's third iteration, so there's going to be lots of improvements and interesting characters. Hell, according to Sakurai, they're going to have a full fledged adventure mode in brawl.

It's really not Nintendo that I'm dissapointed in. They're putting out a mix of casual and core games, which is cool. It's the third parties that I'm dissapointed in. The only ones even putting any effort in to make a "good" game is Sqaure-Enix, Capcom, and... Well, that's about it... Maybe Konami, because Dewy's looks okay?

The DS has the kind of mix that I want. You have your hardcore Nintendo AND third party titles (Castlevania, Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest games, etc) with a good mix of casual and core games. Hell, even some of the casual stuff is pretty hardcore (Planet Puzzle League, Elite Beat Agents).

If third parties would stop this mini-game shit and make some good games (for both audiences) with the Wii-mote in mind, I wouldn't have much to complain about right now.

Moo Cow

08-14-2007, 10:46 PM

Smash is only on it's third iteration, so there's going to be lots of improvements and interesting characters. Hell, according to Sakurai, they're going to have a full fledged adventure mode in brawl.

It's really not Nintendo that I'm dissapointed in. They're putting out a mix of casual and core games, which is cool. It's the third parties that I'm dissapointed in. The only ones even putting any effort in to make a "good" game is Sqaure-Enix, Capcom, and... Well, that's about it... Maybe Konami, because Dewy's looks okay?

If third parties would stop this mini-game shit, and make some good games with the Wii-mote in mind, I wouldn't have much to complain about right now.

I hate the Wiimote. I prefer controllers. My Wiimote is the only thing in my house that runs on batteries. I also have to use it to get to the game, because you can't use the Gamecube controller to move around. I find that really annoying.

EDIT: And by move around, I mean at the menu select.