Bad Lair Reviews, Madden 08 chugging FR, GTA IV delay...PS3 batting 1000 for bad Xmas

[swlovinist]

First of all I want to say that I am not a PS3 hater. I have to admit that I am a late adoptor usually and am on the sideline to buy a PS3 until it gets alot cheaper(300 range). I am a collector of all sorts of games and systems, but even I have to admit....how can a company screw something up so bad? The GTA IV delay for the PS3....that will probably hurt sales. Not a huge loss as the competition will also have to wait for it. The Madden 08 framerate issues is disturbing and somthing that should be fixed by now. Madden 08 is a slam dunk for sales. I wonder how many gamers will not buy the competitions version due to the PS3 version getting poor reviews in of all things....framerate? Finally, the shocker is that I hear that Lair....one game that supposedly was one of the A+ games of the year....is a real letdown. I want to eventually get a PS3....but the bad news keeps rolling in. It is times like these that make me glad that I buy old shit that nobody wants anymore. So am I in the minority here or does these things make others want to hold off on getting the PS3 too? I am not comparing it to the other systems, as each offers something unique. I just wonder when the "Sony PS3 implosion" is going to end.

[Ed Oscuro]

Wall of text!

That's the first time I had heard of this "Lair" game, to be honest...so perhaps the hype for that game wasn't really all that widespread.

[Guru of Time and Space]

Wall of text!

That's the first time I had heard of this "Lair" game, to be honest...so perhaps the hype for that game wasn't really all that widespread.

Man, I don't know where you've been...
Factor 5!

-GoTaS

[Nintendo Gamer]

.....

[neogamer]

I own a PS3 and I can tell you it is an amazing piece of hardware! I just bought the 60GB model, because the 80GB model DOES NOT have true backwards compatibility! If you are a collector, and have the money, I strongly urge you to get the 60GB model before they are gone for good.

The three games I like for the system are Resistance, Oblivion, and Virtua Fighter 3! I don't own any other games, but I am considering Ninja Gaiden Sigma! Thats my two cents...

It is a definite quantum leap over the Xbox 360!

[Kid Ice]

It is a definite quantum leap over the Xbox 360!

Then why can't it run Madden right?

[Willem]

read this: http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25852439

every Football game on the PS3 runs on 30fps, probebly because of the new hardware. and Madden is only big in the US, here in Europe we prefer soccer and the FIFA 200X games. so only a problem for just 1 region, there are still two other regions...

I personaly dont like any sports games, they are just plain boring (although WiiSports is a lot of fun).

And I haven't heard of Lair either. I'm just waiting till Heavenly Sword and Assasin's Creed hit the PS3.

[bangtango]

I know it is a last generation version and this is off topic a little but how does Madden 08 run on the PS2?

[roushimsx]

Then why can't it run Madden right?

If the developers of Ninja Gaiden and GRAW2 are to be believed, it's because (surprise!) the PS3 is newer hardware and most developers don't understand it well enough (shocker!). I recall the first Madden for the 360 had a number of technical problems (you know, stuff that doesn't relate to how it had like 1/2 the content of the previous gen versions), so I fully expect Madden 09 and All Pro Football 2k9 to be more equal between the PS3 and 360.

That's still Sony's fault, of course. They really screwed devs over with getting dev kits to them on a timely manner. I'm honestly surprised the first year's worth of games turned out as good as they did.

The only problem with GTA4 is that the 360 version will have all of the extra downloadable content. Then again, Sony passed on trying to match Microsoft's offer for exclusive GTA4 content to instead secure an exclusive original game from the publisher. It probably won't be a Rockstar North game, but let's hope it's still something good :(

I'd honestly be impressed if either version of GTA4 ran smooth. I've grown to accept that the GTAs on consoles will always be chuggy in comparison to the inevitable awesome PC release. Shame LCS and VCS probably won't ever make it to PC :(


I know it is a last generation version and this is off topic a little but how does Madden 08 run on the PS2?

I haven't heard any complaints about it from casual gamers, but I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet. Maybe I'll get to hop in on a game this weekend.

[Anthony1]

Play magazine gave Lair a 9, but they give alot of games a high score. Supposedly they gave Heavenly Sword a 10, but I haven't received that issue yet. The Madden thing just shows you why it pays to be the lead platform. Xbox 360 is still the lead platform for 95 percent of 3rd party games, and until that changes, the PS3's version of various 3rd party games will suffer. How many PS3 multiplatform releases are coming out day and date with their 360 counterparts? Very few. That is a pretty disturbing trend, because as an owner of a PS3, it means that I'm primarily only interested in exclusive games. I'd rather get the multiplatform games on 360, because it will most likely run much smoother on the 360.

Having said all that, the PS3 does have some pretty big exclusives coming in the near term:

1. Uncharted: Drakes Fortune - perhaps my most wanted game this year, over all other games.

2. Ratchet & Clank Future - another huge game, and very high on my list. Up there with Halo 3 and Mass Effect

3. Heavenly Sword - I'm not as hyped on this game as some other people are, but it still looks pretty darn good.

4. Lair - I know you've said it's gotten bad reviews, and I am a bit worried that the game will either be a love or hate affair, but I can't wait to hear the lossless 7.1 sound in this game. Supposedly it's beyond belief.

5. Haze - This game is exclusive to the PS3 this holiday. It's also coming to 360, but Sony might have purchased a 6 month window with it. It will be real interesting to see if the PS3 version is actually the better version, but regardless, I'll definitely rent it and check it out.

6. Unreal Tournament III - Same as Haze. Exclusive to PS3 this holiday season.

Those are basically the 6 big games for the PS3 this holiday season, (if I'm forgetting anything let me know). Also the PS3 has some heat for early 2008. Burnout Paradise is being designed for the PS3 as lead platform, so this is one multiplatform game that may actually play much better on the PS3. I'm pretty sure it's expected in early 2008. MGS4 is coming in March most likely, so that's some definite hotness too.

[s1lence]

^^^ So they have those games and the 360 gets......Halo 3, Bioshock etc etc etc. Now I have a PS3 and I got it at launch but seriously, other then blu-ray there is nothing on the system that makes me go WOW.

Its almost a year old now in the retail market, you would think that Sony would get on the ball and give us the "amazing" titles they have been blabbing about. I personally don't care which system outsells who, I just want good games to play.

[jajaja]

The Madden 08 framerate issues is disturbing and somthing that should be fixed by now. Madden 08 is a slam dunk for sales. I wonder how many gamers will not buy the competitions version due to the PS3 version getting poor reviews in of all things....framerate?

To be honest, i think the majority of the people who buy this game have no idea that the game is 30FPS contra 360's 60FPS. I know Madden is a very popular game, but the 30 VS 60 FPS discussions around Madden 08, it can almost feel like that this is the game that will determine who will win between PS3 and 360. I dont think this issue will have any meaningful impact in the long run.



Then why can't it run Madden right?

Its a developers problem. As roushimsx said, PS3 is new hardware, it takes more time to learn it and the PS3 devkits came out later than the 360 devkits. Sony's own studio made NBA 08 in 1080p with 60fps. Call of Duty 4 will also be in 60FPS and i dare to say that this game is much more gfx detailed than Madden 08, so the reason why Madden 08 for PS3 only got 30FPS is not because of the limitation of the PS3, its because that the developers arent good/familiar enough with the hardware yet.

[BHvrd]

Yeah ps3 is doing much better on a niche basis than a mianstream one.

Personally my most anticipated games atm are Warhawk, Folklore, Eye of Judgement, and Haze.

Ps3 probably won't reach mainstream status till Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy XIII, and God of War 3 are released. I'm sure they are taking the time to make those games the best ever though of course.

May not be a great holiday, but I have nothing but faith in the ps3 and know it will succeed well eventually, and as far as hardware goes it is one very well designed piece of machine!

Man, I really want Eye of Judgement, it looks so fun.

Eye of Judgement Developer Walkthrough:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/19613.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/19649.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/19682.html

[Trebuken]

Play magazine gave Lair a 9, but they give alot of games a high score. Supposedly they gave Heavenly Sword a 10, but I haven't received that issue yet. The Madden thing just shows you why it pays to be the lead platform. Xbox 360 is still the lead platform for 95 percent of 3rd party games, and until that changes, the PS3's version of various 3rd party games will suffer. How many PS3 multiplatform releases are coming out day and date with their 360 counterparts? Very few. That is a pretty disturbing trend, because as an owner of a PS3, it means that I'm primarily only interested in exclusive games. I'd rather get the multiplatform games on 360, because it will most likely run much smoother on the 360.

Having said all that, the PS3 does have some pretty big exclusives coming in the near term:

1. Uncharted: Drakes Fortune - perhaps my most wanted game this year, over all other games.

2. Ratchet & Clank Future - another huge game, and very high on my list. Up there with Halo 3 and Mass Effect

3. Heavenly Sword - I'm not as hyped on this game as some other people are, but it still looks pretty darn good.

4. Lair - I know you've said it's gotten bad reviews, and I am a bit worried that the game will either be a love or hate affair, but I can't wait to hear the lossless 7.1 sound in this game. Supposedly it's beyond belief.

5. Haze - This game is exclusive to the PS3 this holiday. It's also coming to 360, but Sony might have purchased a 6 month window with it. It will be real interesting to see if the PS3 version is actually the better version, but regardless, I'll definitely rent it and check it out.

6. Unreal Tournament III - Same as Haze. Exclusive to PS3 this holiday season.

Those are basically the 6 big games for the PS3 this holiday season, (if I'm forgetting anything let me know). Also the PS3 has some heat for early 2008. Burnout Paradise is being designed for the PS3 as lead platform, so this is one multiplatform game that may actually play much better on the PS3. I'm pretty sure it's expected in early 2008. MGS4 is coming in March most likely, so that's some definite hotness too.


Yeah, Heavenly Sword got a 10; just got that issue. The author of the review seems really excited...


If a title is released on the PS3 and 360 I think most multi-console owners are going with the PS3 version (with the seemingly exclusion of Madden 08).

Other titles bringing life to the PS3(not all exclusive).
Timeshift
Assassin's Creed
Time Crisis 4 (May not sell well but I count this as a big deal)
Quake Wars
Rock Band
The Orange Box
Kane & Lynch
Army Of 2
Mercenaries 2
Bladestorm
Call of Duty 4
Jericho (maybe)

[BydoEmpire]

To be honest, i think the majority of the people who buy this game have no idea that the game is 30FPS contra 360's 60FPS.Exactly. Madden was 30fps on the 360 the last two years and there wasn't too much outcry. As has been mentioned, next year you'll probably see both versions at 60. And the only people who are going to choose the 360 version OVER the PS3 version are the tiny, tiny, tiny minority of people who have both platforms and want Madden. Otherwise, you'd just get the version for your console. I don't think it's all that big a deal other than people had unrealistic expectations about the PS3 hardware.

Delays do suck, and it's too bad Lair isn't the be all and end all (though it might still be a good game even if it's not an AAA title). But there are still lots of games out and coming. Everyone says "games" are Sony's biggest problem, but personally I still think it's the price. I might have bought one instead of a 360 if it was cheaper... or at least much closer. I could barely, barely justify $400 after getting a nice bonus at work, let alone $600.

[RPG_Fanatic]

First let me say I loved the PSone & PStwo but my PS3 is nothing more than a DVD/Blu-ray (now that Blockbuster rent's them) player. I play my 360 all the time, If the same game comes out for both PS3/360 I buy the 360 version.

[pookninja]

i got madden 08 for ps3 and it looks/plays great to me.i downloaded a demo of heavenly sword and its not that impressive,in my opinion.i call it goddess of war.i would rather play god of war 2 actually.lair looks badass to me.

[Melf]

The three games I like for the system are Resistance, Oblivion, and Virtua Fighter 3! I don't own any other games, but I am considering Ninja Gaiden Sigma! Thats my two cents...

It is a definite quantum leap over the Xbox 360!

Sarcasm? You named a 360/PC game that's a year old, a port of a 2 year-old Xbox game, and a title coming to the 360.


Its a developers problem. As roushimsx said, PS3 is new hardware, it takes more time to learn it and the PS3 devkits came out later than the 360 devkits. Sony's own studio made NBA 08 in 1080p with 60fps. Call of Duty 4 will also be in 60FPS and i dare to say that this game is much more gfx detailed than Madden 08, so the reason why Madden 08 for PS3 only got 30FPS is not because of the limitation of the PS3, its because that the developers arent good/familiar enough with the hardware yet.

I don't remember reading anyone from EA saying this. I know a lot of "analysts" did, but no one from EA.




Earlier this week, New York Times writer Matt Richtel blogged about the reasons behind differences in the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 editions of some games.

In talking about the issue, Richtel cited analysts as saying that development for the PS3 is more challenging than for the Xbox 360 because game makers have had less time with the hardware. He also linked it to delays of the PS3 versions of games like Electronic Arts' Medal of Honor: Airborne and Skate.

Richtel revisited the topic after hearing back from EA about the issue. A representative with the publisher told the writer that as a release date nears, the company sometimes readjusts the manpower on the projects to complete the Xbox 360 version first.

With a larger installed base for Microsoft's console, the rep said it makes financial sense to get that version of a game out first and maximize potential sales. The representative also noted that in the last generation, it made more sense for the publisher to focus on PlayStation 2 versions of games over those on the Xbox because of the platform's massive installed user base.

Here's (http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/15/sony-v-microsoft-with-helmets/) the article in question


On its face, the relative sluggishness of the PS3 would appear to be counterintuitive, given its powerful processor. On the other hand, the 360 has been on the market a year longer than the PS3 — meaning game developers have had more time to configure and optimize their software for Microsoft’s machine. At least that’s what video game industry analysts are intuiting.

Electronic Arts hasn’t been quite so explicit.

In a written statement, Todd Sitrin, EA’s vice president of marketing sports branding, said that its games are tweaked in different ways to fit the different consoles.

“In designing a game, there are all sorts of tradeoffs that include frame rate, visuals, features, AI, etc. Football is an extremely challenging sport to replicate because of the number of people on the field, their interaction, and the scope of the environments. As you can see, every company making a football game this year made a decision that the best experience for the Xbox 360 included 60fps whereas the best experience for the PS3 was 30fps.”

The statement did not indicate specifically why EA had made the tradeoff for slower speeds on the PlayStation, and did not address whether EA is having more trouble developing for PS3 than for the 360. The company did not respond to follow-up questions this afternoon.

[heybtbm]

I look at it this way...

My PS3 is chugging along right now (playing a PS2 game) while my 360 is sitting at the MS repair center for the 2nd time in a year. Draw your own conclusions.

[BHvrd]

I look at it this way...

My PS3 is chugging along right now (playing a PS2 game) while my 360 is sitting at the MS repair center for the 2nd time in a year. Draw your own conclusions.

I gotta admit they got the ps1/ps2 playback up to snuff now since the upscaling/smoothing. I now prefer playing them on it as not only does it look better, but those virtual memory cards be nice. :D

[jajaja]

I don't remember reading anyone from EA saying this. I know a lot of "analysts" did, but no one from EA.

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=19757

And here is another thing said about the PS3 by developers (altho not EA, but it still applies)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27782


"It's not harder to develop on the PS3 than it is on the 360, it's just a different console. Developers might says it's harder because it just takes time to understand the technology, we're still early in the lifecycle."

But you dont really need to hear it directly from the developers themself to know why. Take any console, then look at the launch games and then look at the games that comes out i.e 4-5 years after and you will see that the games have improved. Its because developers learn how to push the hardware more and more. Its not different with PS3, 360 and Wii.

PS3 is not weaker than 360, so there is no reason why both console shouldnt manage to run Madden 08 in 60FPS. And as said, CoD4 which is a much more advanced game when it comes to gfx manages to run at 60FPS, so why not Madden 08 too?

[chicnstu]

http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/929230.asp

Where are the other reviews that are 9s that people mentioned? Have they not been added yet? All I see is a 5.5, a 7.5, and a 9. That is a big surprise to me that it's getting bad scores. Did they rush the game?

Very bad news for PS3. I wanted one but all of these things keep happening. Out of the games mentioned, here are the ones I'm looking forward to.

Uncharted: Drakes Fortune
Ratchet & Clank Future - HUGE fan of this series
Assassin's Creed - hope it's not as linear as Prince of Persia
Kane & Lynch - Interesting, more information needs to be released

I'm not enjoying what's happening with all 3 consoles, not much out for the Wii, even less out for the PS3, and all of the major 360 games releasing soon I'm not too interested in. I hate FPS (Halo), but I might try Bioshock. I love RPGs (Blue Dragon) and I'll try it but it seems to be too simple and plain like DQVIII. I was extremely interested in Mass Effect until I played Bioware's KOTOR and Jade Empire. Hopefully it will have a different pace from those 2 games. And I'm all Grand Theft Auto'd out.

For Wii, Mario Galaxy and Manhunt 2 will hopefully be fun

But obviously it's early so we'll have a lot of great games on each system later (I really really really hope Two Human and Fable 2 are very good).

[s1lence]

I look at it this way...

My PS3 is chugging along right now (playing a PS2 game) while my 360 is sitting at the MS repair center for the 2nd time in a year. Draw your own conclusions.

The PS3 is a good PS2 game player?

[digitalpress]

The PS3 is a good PS2 game player?

Uh, I think he meant that the 360 is a troubled piece of machinery - which I also believe - which has nothing to do with its excellent software library. At my store where we do repairs I have yet to see a problematic PS3. Seems 3 of 4 people who bought a 360 have an issue.

I'll continue to interpret for other posters for as long as it takes for everyone to read into things properly.

[s1lence]

Actually I understood what he said completely. The 360 has issues with reliability, no doubt. My point was that a PS3 is a very expensive PS2.

[digitalpress]

Actually I understood what he said completely. The 360 has issues with reliability, no doubt. My point was that a PS3 is a very expensive PS2.

Alright, hopefully you also understand that some owners are patient enough to wait for good software and would prefer to have a reliable game player regardless of the library.

[s1lence]

Oh yes, I have a PS3 and I am waitng......still. I hope the titles come sooner then later. I do use my PS3 for blu-ray and I'm pretty happy with using it as that.

[neogamer]

Then why can't it run Madden right?

I am not a sports game fan, so I can't answer this question. What I can tell you is that Resistance, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Virtua Fighter 3, and Oblivion are incredible games!

I consider Madden an EA screw up, not a Sony one!

[neogamer]

[QUOTE=Melf;1232542]Sarcasm? You named a 360/PC game that's a year old, a port of a 2 year-old Xbox game, and a title coming to the 360.

Really-so genius-when is Resistance coming to the Xbox 360???

I'm awaiting your reply, as that was one of the games I originally mentioned!

[Kid Ice]

I am not a sports game fan, so I can't answer this question. What I can tell you is that Resistance, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Virtua Fighter 3, and Oblivion are incredible games!

I consider Madden an EA screw up, not a Sony one!

Considering some of the reactions to my earlier comment, maybe I should rephrase the question.

Some of you here are "in the know" so to speak and you may understand the reasons for the Madden issues....late dev kits, still learning the system, it's EA's fault, whatever. But to Joe Consumer, it's a game that doesn't run right. Joe Consumer doesn't care about dev kits. Joe Consumer's not thinking about how much better Madden 09 will be. Joe Consumer says "I paid 6 hunerd dollars for this sumbitch, and this here Madden don't not even work!"

[jajaja]

Considering some of the reactions to my earlier comment, maybe I should rephrase the question.

Some of you here are "in the know" so to speak and you may understand the reasons for the Madden issues....late dev kits, still learning the system, it's EA's fault, whatever. But to Joe Consumer, it's a game that doesn't run right. Joe Consumer doesn't care about dev kits. Joe Consumer's not thinking about how much better Madden 09 will be. Joe Consumer says "I paid 6 hunerd dollars for this sumbitch, and this here Madden don't not even work!"

True that Joe Consumer doesnt care about that, but to be honest, i dont think he will say "damn.. this game is unplayable since it only got 30FPS!". I dont think he will even know its running at 30FPS. And its not like the game is unplayable, 30FPS works fine, but 60FPS is better.

[Retsudo]

I see it like this. I buy a system when and if their are game I want to play. Right now, their are none for the PS3 Im interested in. When Tekken 6 comes out, thats when Im going to buy one. I'am tempted to buy one now to play Dark Ressurection, but I just bought my first HDTV a few days ago, and Im content for now. I dont have to have everything right now.

[heybtbm]

Considering some of the reactions to my earlier comment, maybe I should rephrase the question.

Some of you here are "in the know" so to speak and you may understand the reasons for the Madden issues....late dev kits, still learning the system, it's EA's fault, whatever. But to Joe Consumer, it's a game that doesn't run right. Joe Consumer doesn't care about dev kits. Joe Consumer's not thinking about how much better Madden 09 will be. Joe Consumer says "I paid 6 hunerd dollars for this sumbitch, and this here Madden don't not even work!"

This analogy doesn't make sense. My reasoning...


True that Joe Consumer doesnt care about that, but to be honest, i dont think he will say "damn.. this game is unplayable since it only got 30FPS!". I dont think he will even know its running at 30FPS. And its not like the game is unplayable, 30FPS works fine, but 60FPS is better.

Exactly. "Joe Consumer" doesn't even know what he's missing. Someone with a PS3 playing Madden '08 doesn't have a clue that the 360 version is 60 fps. If he does know that the versions are different, by definition he's "in the know" so the original analogy doesn't fit.

[Kid Ice]

This analogy doesn't make sense. My reasoning...



Exactly. "Joe Consumer" doesn't even know what he's missing. Someone with a PS3 playing Madden '08 doesn't have a clue that the 360 version is 60 fps. If he does know that the versions are different, by definition he's "in the know" so the original analogy doesn't fit.

So what you are both saying is that the frame rate issues in Madden are not severe enough to be noticed by the average consumer? I have not played the game so I don't know...from what I have heard it is noticeable.

[jajaja]

So what you are both saying is that the frame rate issues in Madden are not severe enough to be noticed by the average consumer? I have not played the game so I don't know...from what I have heard it is noticeable.

I havnt played any of the Madden 08 versions so i shall not say 100% sure. It might be noticeable if you let the average joe play both the 360 and PS3 version. I'm sure he will notice some difference, but i dont think it will be that big of an issue. It wont make the game totally unplayable, that i know for sure. The average joe that buys the PS3 version only will most likely think this is the way the game is suppose to be and dont think any more about it.

I'm sure someone will make a PS3 VS 360 video soon. We'll see then :)

[Cornelius]

Oh yes, I have a PS3 and I am waitng......still. I hope the titles come sooner then later. I do use my PS3 for blu-ray and I'm pretty happy with using it as that.
I'm glad you said this, because while the PS3 may be a damn expensive PS2 player for some people right now, it is *still* the cheapest blu-ray player as far as I know. Not only that the reviews I read a month or two ago said it was as good or better than all other blu-ray players that are out.

I'm too cheap to own any of the current gen systems, but I follow along because my father-in-law is a technophile who bought a wii for fun and a PS3 to play blu-rays.