Need Advice: Returning Consoles to the Store

[MF_Luder]

Alright, yes, I'm looking to cheat the system a little bit and save myself some time here. My Xbox 360 is to the point where I can't even make it through 10 minutes of gameplay without it freezing. I've had it for like 6 months so it is still under warranty, but I just bought Madden and Halo 3 will be out soon so I'd like to avoid the hassle that so many others have had to endure-- that is putting my console in Microsoft's hands and not knowing when I'll get it back. (As a side note, do you get your hard drive back, or will I have to download all my games again?)

Well, of course, I never throw any of my system boxes away, so I still have mine. I know places like Wal-Mart will take almost anything back for store credit as long as it's in new condition (even without a receipt). So I was just gonna repackage my 360 and return it to WalMart to exchange for another one.... until I called them and they said they don't do that on new electronics.

So I thought up another genius idea-- I'm gonna go to Wal-Mart and buy a new 360, and then use that receipt to return my old 360 (in the new 360 box if necessary) [also going to take my HDD and put it in the new console to avoid the hassle of redownloading]. Can anyone who works in retail or who has done this before confirm for me if this will work? I certainly don't want to be stuck with 2 systems. Or any better ideas than this? I appreciate Microsoft's generous warranty policy (Sony wasn't even 10% as good when they had the disc-read eror problem with the PS2s) but I don't want to get stuck in the cycle of returned consoles with them... I figure it's quicker for all parties if I just make Wal-Mart send it back to them for me. Perhaps this is a system many others should adopt-- why should we suffer for a non-working console when we can expedite the process for everyone.

[Stone_Protector_101]

well all i can say is that i have managed a gamecrazy and all i can tell you is that we scan the barcode which shows us the serial number. so if you really take it back they will scan the serial number and a different serial number and you will be fucked. sorry to say budby. all i can say if i hope you get a dumb ass as the check out desk. lol. but also try MS they tend to be pretty faster than when the 360 came out. plus now you can track the progress on the console which i think is BS cuz they send you a console with a different Serial number. but good luck bro hope all comes well in your journey of beating the system

[Cornelius]

I figure it's quicker for all parties if I just make Wal-Mart send it back to them for me.
So you are going to tell them it doesn't work? I doubt they test returns, so if you don't tell them, they'll just be selling it to someone else, and that would make you a dick. Even if you tell the store it is broken I'd still say it is unethical, though probably not immoral.

I'm skeptical about the previous post scanning a barcode and getting a serial number from it. Do 360 boxes have more than just a UPC? Because UPCs are the same for all products that are the same.

[Kid Ice]

So I thought up another genius idea-- I'm gonna go to Wal-Mart and buy a new 360, and then use that receipt to return my old 360 (in the new 360 box if necessary)

Such a genius idea this is that they have been checking the serial numbers for about ten years now.

[geneshifter]

This is why I do not shop at Wal-Mart :( People returning stuff all the friggin' time.

[kjmontana]

Bite the bullet and utilize the 3-year warranty with Microsoft. The time you waste contemplating WallyWorld could be better served bowing to all things Microsoft(Bill Gates wife desciption of his sexual prowess? Only the Shadow Corp. knows!).

[PapaStu]

Bite the bullet and utilize the 3-year warranty with Microsoft. The time you waste contemplating WallyWorld could be better served bowing to all things Microsoft(Bill Gates wife desciption of his sexual prowess? Only the Shadow Corp. knows!).

QFT

It'll be a few weeks, however you'll have your system back before Halo 3. They've got a 3 year waranty on them now, just use it! THEY pay for the shipping both ways, and they'll fix it (now with the much better heat sync's to boot).

[icbrkr]

If you get stuck with the older model of the 360 when you 'exchange' it, you'll be in the same boat in a few months anyway as it's pretty apparent it's a design flaw. Why bother? Let them fix the flaw and get a free 30 days of live and a longer lasting 360 to boot.

[neogamer]

The other forum members are right: the serial number is what they look at when you exchange a system. Your idea WILL NOT work! I will say this, if you are going to buy an Xbox 360 right now, the ELITE system is the only one that appears to not have any of the problems associated with the other models. I even wonder if the Halo system will be worth buying when it comes out next month?!? I preordered one (at Game Crazy of all places) and actually wonder if I should just get an ELITE instead! That system does not seem to have any of the problems that the other 360 systems have! Anyone else own an elite and care to comment?

[MF_Luder]

I preordered one (at Game Crazy of all places) and actually wonder if I should just get an ELITE instead! That system does not seem to have any of the problems that the other 360 systems have! Anyone else own an elite and care to comment?

Yeah, according to Quartermann in EGM, the best parts are being used in the Elite version. I would like to buy the Halo system but it wouldn't make sense financially... since I already own a 360 it would make a $800 total investment in the system.

[MF_Luder]

So you are going to tell them it doesn't work? I doubt they test returns, so if you don't tell them, they'll just be selling it to someone else, and that would make you a dick. Even if you tell the store it is broken I'd still say it is unethical, though probably not immoral.

I'm skeptical about the previous post scanning a barcode and getting a serial number from it. Do 360 boxes have more than just a UPC? Because UPCs are the same for all products that are the same.


... and the 5 other posts like this.... Guys, I'm not sure you get how this works. OF COURSE I'm going to tell them the 360 doesn't work. My plan was to bring it to Wal-Mart, tell them the system is freezing up and I don't feel like dealing with it. Wal-Mart does not interrogate everyone who makes a return-- as long as you have a receipt they will take it back for ANY reason. Tell them you're returning it because "it's reading your mind" and they'll still take the thing back. And if you tell them it doesn't work, they send it back to MS and those two work it out... instead of me and MS. So how is that unethical? I figured that several people would consider it "unethical", but only because these are the same people who they or a friend actually had to wait the 3-4 week repair period and they're upset that someone is trying to circumvent the process of waiting a month for a repair. Sorry you had to wait, but I think it's taking it too far to call it unethical to return it to a major retailer to facilitate the return for you. Returns like this happen ALL the time, even Wal-Mart realizes this (hence, why the take your license info for repeat offenders), and I'm sure most people on this board have done something like it at some point. The fact that it's a video game system doesn't make it any more unethical than doing it with something cheaper like a DVD. If it was some mom-and-pop shop I would agree with you, but I think W-M can handle it.

HOWEVER-- That being said, based on everyone's advice, I will most likely just send it back to MS and get it taken care of. Seems like the best hope to get a solid working console and not have the 78 year old women at Wal-Mart lecture me for having the wrong serial number. So thank you for the tips everyone. Now, as my previous question asked, can someone confirm if you get your original HDD back from MS, or will I need to re-download all my games, gamer pics, etc.?

[MF_Luder]

Such a genius idea this is that they have been checking the serial numbers for about ten years now.


See, my plan was so genius that they've been preparing for it for the past 10 years.

[Borman]

... and the 5 other posts like this.... Guys, I'm not sure you get how this works. OF COURSE I'm going to tell them the 360 doesn't work. My plan was to bring it to Wal-Mart, tell them the system is freezing up and I don't feel like dealing with it. Wal-Mart does not interrogate everyone who makes a return-- as long as you have a receipt they will take it back for ANY reason. Tell them you're returning it because "it's reading your mind" and they'll still take the thing back. And if you tell them it doesn't work, they send it back to MS and those two work it out... instead of me and MS. So how is that unethical? I figured that several people would consider it "unethical", but only because these are the same people who they or a friend actually had to wait the 3-4 week repair period and they're upset that someone is trying to circumvent the process of waiting a month for a repair. Sorry you had to wait, but I think it's taking it too far to call it unethical to return it to a major retailer to facilitate the return for you. Returns like this happen ALL the time, even Wal-Mart realizes this (hence, why the take your license info for repeat offenders), and I'm sure most people on this board have done something like it at some point. The fact that it's a video game system doesn't make it any more unethical than doing it with something cheaper like a DVD. If it was some mom-and-pop shop I would agree with you, but I think W-M can handle it.

HOWEVER-- That being said, based on everyone's advice, I will most likely just send it back to MS and get it taken care of. Seems like the best hope to get a solid working console and not have the 78 year old women at Wal-Mart lecture me for having the wrong serial number. So thank you for the tips everyone. Now, as my previous question asked, can someone confirm if you get your original HDD back from MS, or will I need to re-download all my games, gamer pics, etc.?


You return just the system, not the harddrive, so you keep it. You will need to be logged onto live to play the full version, unless thats been fixed. Otherwise, sometimes MS gives you a code to redownload.

[Cornelius]

... and the 5 other posts like this.... Guys, I'm not sure you get how this works. OF COURSE I'm going to tell them the 360 doesn't work. My plan was to bring it to Wal-Mart, tell them the system is freezing up and I don't feel like dealing with it. Wal-Mart does not interrogate everyone who makes a return-- as long as you have a receipt they will take it back for ANY reason. Tell them you're returning it because "it's reading your mind" and they'll still take the thing back. And if you tell them it doesn't work, they send it back to MS and those two work it out... instead of me and MS. So how is that unethical? I figured that several people would consider it "unethical", but only because these are the same people who they or a friend actually had to wait the 3-4 week repair period and they're upset that someone is trying to circumvent the process of waiting a month for a repair. Sorry you had to wait, but I think it's taking it too far to call it unethical to return it to a major retailer to facilitate the return for you. Returns like this happen ALL the time, even Wal-Mart realizes this (hence, why the take your license info for repeat offenders), and I'm sure most people on this board have done something like it at some point. The fact that it's a video game system doesn't make it any more unethical than doing it with something cheaper like a DVD. If it was some mom-and-pop shop I would agree with you, but I think W-M can handle it.
Aw, c'mon, you know it isn't quite right, else it would be fine to do it to a Mom and Pop store too. You can't very well say that a DVD swap is just as bad as a 360 swap in one breath, and then say screwing a big store is okay and a small store is not in the next. Well, of course, you can say that, but...

Anyway, I'm not trying to bust your balls, especially since it is all moot because you are just getting the repair, but people use your same logic all the time to justify stealing from large stores, and it just doesn't make it right. And, in fact, there is definitely added cost for Wal-Mart to return your console for you. They probably even budget for that cost, but they also budget for shoplifting expenses, and that doesn't make it okay. I'm shutting up now, cause I think I'll vomit if I defend Wal-Mart any more.

[MF_Luder]

Aw, c'mon, you know it isn't quite right, else it would be fine to do it to a Mom and Pop store too. You can't very well say that a DVD swap is just as bad as a 360 swap in one breath, and then say screwing a big store is okay and a small store is not in the next. Well, of course, you can say that, but...

Anyway, I'm not trying to bust your balls, especially since it is all moot because you are just getting the repair, but people use your same logic all the time to justify stealing from large stores, and it just doesn't make it right. And, in fact, there is definitely added cost for Wal-Mart to return your console for you. They probably even budget for that cost, but they also budget for shoplifting expenses, and that doesn't make it okay. I'm shutting up now, cause I think I'll vomit if I defend Wal-Mart any more.


I understand what you're saying. I agree with you that I'd be stupid if I were to say that it's 100% undeniably right. But at the same time, I think it'd be a stretch to call it completely "wrong". If I save a month of my time at the slight expense of two of the largest corporations in the United States (WalMart and Microsoft), I don't think I'm going to feel guilty about it the next day... nor would anyone here. It'd feel differently if I did it to a small, local video game shop where the owner might actually take a noteable financial hit for each return.

As I said, though, I think most of the backlash from an idea like this is going to come from people upset/jealous because they sent their system away for a month long repair, and then they see someone circumventing the system and getting a new console the same day (assuming the idea would work of course). Of course, I expected this though and don't mind it-- I would be pissed too if I went without my 360 for a month and then saw someone get around the system in 1 day. But yes, like you said this is all moot because I am returning the console to Microsoft. But I'm doing this more because my idea won't work, rather than because I feel guilty about "cheating" Wal-Mart. And I have no desire to start arguments with anyone, so I will leave it at that.

[Family Computer]

do what you gotta do & good luck

[gepeto]

The funny thing is the older I get the more i see that things of this nature have a wild way of working themselves out on both sides of the ball.

Everyone of us are responsible for our actions and so will except the consquences of such. Example you go to return clearly attempting to defraud. Once the unit or money exchanges you are possibly on the hook for fraud whiich is a felony alot higher than a misdemeanor. They could arrest you on the spot drag you downtown and ruin your record for life.

Fast forward 10 years you are applying for a job You really really want it is a life changer if you get it. That requires a background check they ask have you ever been arrested. You would vastly regret the stupid impluse to beat the system and even if you get the job you would be sweating that no one finds out. I have had friends fired on the spot and walked to the door because of omissions on job applications and it is worse if you are married with kids.

Is a 360 really worth it. Also wallmart and sams are getting alot more sharp and aggressive on fraud. A store will be a store wether you getaway or not but you wont be the same. You made the right choice but it was a choice you should have never really been faced with.

[JerseyDevil65]

I am always amazed at people who are willing to cheat a store and justify it by saying the store is huge and can take the loss.

You may hate Wal Mart and I would never argue with you on that but buying a new system and returning an old one in its place is just stealing, no matter how you justify it to yourself.

[MF_Luder]

I am always amazed at people who are willing to cheat a store and justify it by saying the store is huge and can take the loss.

You may hate Wal Mart and I would never argue with you on that but buying a new system and returning an old one in its place is just stealing, no matter how you justify it to yourself.


Well, I know this is starting to get off the video game topic and become more like a college Ethics course debate, but I'm always up for a little debate, so let's discuss this (and by no means do I intend to be offensive or argumentative to anyone, so I apologize if it comes off that way; I'm just open to any sharing of ideas on issues like this).

First off, I'm certainly no Wal-Mart hater. My intentions have nothing to do with my personal feelings towards Wal-Mart. You can substitute that name for any other, I just use them as an example because everyone knows who they are and it's the main place I shop (although, ironically, it's also the main place that Wal-Mart bashers shop too... complain and then shop there anyways). However, I'm still not opposed to using them for my returns, as I had been considering in this case.

Now let's all consider this following scenario together...... Let's say a relative who knows I enjoy video games purchases me one for Christmas. She knows nothing about games though, so she buys me MotorStorm without realizing that I don't own a PS3. Now I don't want her to know that she screwed up, so I pretend to love it and thank her. The next day I walk into WalMart, go to customer service, and tell them that I want to return the game. Because it's still in its original packaging, WalMart will do the return with no questions asked and offer me a $60 refund in store credit. Now I have no clue where the game originally came from... she might have bought it from Best Buy. But I took it back to Wal-Mart and got $60 from them to use at their store-- and ultimately they will lose a few dollars on this transaction (how much depends on what I exchange it for), but they do these types of returns because it is a necessity of a large retailer like this and they realize they will get a few bad returns along with all the legit ones. Now, what would be wrong with that scenario and, if anything, what is the right thing to do? Waste a $60 game rather than risk putting Wal-Mart out of business by returning it? No, you return the game to any random retailer and exchange it for a game on another system (or whatever else you'd prefer to spend your store credit on). Anyone on here who wouldn't do the same thing is either lying or dumb. So it's no different to take a $350 Xbox 360 and exchange it for another $350 Xbox 360, even if I originally bought the system from GameStop. It's the same scenario, just different items. The only difference is that Wal-Mart requires a receipt for 360 returns, so it would not work to return it in this manner. Nonetheless, though, a return is a return, regardless of how it is accomplished.

Now, as Gepeto pointed out, it could constitute fraud, though naturally I would play it off as an honest mistake and the old lady at the counter would probably just tell me she couldn't do the return (I don't think they would attempt to prosecute it, and whether it would hold up in court is an even less likely issue). Returning a broken system to a different store is not against the law-- but it becomes a very minor form of fraud when I attempt to defraud Wal-Mart by swapping two items with different serials numbers and pretending that my old console is the new console. However, unlike what you're trying to claim, JerseyDevil, it is not stealing. It is an even exchange; it's not the same as taking something that doesn't belong to you, so calling it stealing is quite a bit off. Fraud sounds cooler anyways.

[walrusmonger]

An easy going return policy is not the same as returing a different unit in place of one purchased.

That said, back when my dreamcast died on me (and serial numbers were on stickers that you could peel off) I bought a new DC at Toys R US, switched the sticker to my old unit, returned the old unit and got a 2nd dreamcast.

Yes, it was an underhanded thing to do, but I still "bought" a system from them.

If you're that pressed for cash, I would say good luck with your return, but just remember karma is a bitch. EVERYTHING comes back to you at the end of the day/month/year/decade. You might be happy if it goes through, but somewhere out there you'll have what's coming to you*.












*This could be as simple as having a controller break, having your MS operating system crash, or... worse!

[JerseyDevil65]

Anyone on here who wouldn't do the same thing is either lying or dumb.

Or they have a conscience and know the difference between right and wrong.

Your comparison is not a fair one. In one instance you are returning a gift and in the other you are knowingly returning a used defective product as new.

You can't justify it as a "honest mistake" because you know it isn't. Just because it would be hard to prosecute you doesn't make you innocent.

[MachineGex]

If everything was on the "up & up", you wouldn't have to pretend or play it off as a "honest mistake" when in fact you know it isn't. It isn't an "even exchange", you are switching a used broken system for a brand new(unbroken) system. What really amazes me is you have a way to fix this problem without compromising yourself. Just send it in and have it fixed. Is it really worth trying to talk yourself into doing something that is shady at best? You have a honest & easy way out. If was OK to switch at the store, they would just allow you to do it without lying.

[MF_Luder]

An easy going return policy is not the same as returing a different unit in place of one purchased.

That said, back when my dreamcast died on me (and serial numbers were on stickers that you could peel off) I bought a new DC at Toys R US, switched the sticker to my old unit, returned the old unit and got a 2nd dreamcast.

Yes, it was an underhanded thing to do, but I still "bought" a system from them.

If you're that pressed for cash, I would say good luck with your return, but just remember karma is a bitch. EVERYTHING comes back to you at the end of the day/month/year/decade. You might be happy if it goes through, but somewhere out there you'll have what's coming to you*.












*This could be as simple as having a controller break, having your MS operating system crash, or... worse!



You're essentially saying that what you did was justified, and that my plan is unethical-- even though their the exact same thing. So I don't get how that works. My plan was to do the exact same thing you did-- go to Wal-Mart and buy a new console, switch the two of them, and return my "old console" in the "new consoles" box and tell them that it was broken when I bought it so I just want a refund. So how is your "justified" return different from mine?

[MF_Luder]

Or they have a conscience and know the difference between right and wrong.

Your comparison is not a fair one. In one instance you are returning a gift and in the other you are knowingly returning a used defective product as new.

You can't justify it as a "honest mistake" because you know it isn't. Just because it would be hard to prosecute you doesn't make you innocent.


Man, please read and understand what I mean before you go bashing what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you have to agree with what I say-- just at least know what I'm saying first! First off, does Wal-Mart care if it's a gift or not? Only I know whether it's a gift or not-- they take the return regardless of the reason. And I WOULD NOT be returning the Xbox as new. I would buy a NEW Xbox and take it out and keep that. Then I would put my OLD Xbox in the NEW box and return it as defective. I would tell them that I bought it from them and it was freezing up on me right away, and I would just prefer a refund of my money. Then they would sent it back to Microsoft and the two could work it out by however retailers do their thing.

Next, I did not say that I was going to justify it in my own mind as an "honest mistake". I meant that if the Wal-Mart customer service rep noticed that the serial numbers didn't match, then I would have to pretend that it was an honest mistake. If she said "Why don't these serial numbers match?", I would not be stupid enough to reply, "Oh, because I switched it with my old Xbox. Please have me arrested now." I would simply play dumb. Would it work? Who knows-- depends on how good she is at her job. But it'd certainly be my only option.... albeit not a very good one. Hence, why I am no longer planning to return it to the store and, as I have said like 5 times, I am sending it to Microsoft. I have already contacted them and just need to mail it.

[MF_Luder]

If everything was on the "up & up", you wouldn't have to pretend or play it off as a "honest mistake" when in fact you know it isn't. It isn't an "even exchange", you are switching a used broken system for a brand new(unbroken) system. What really amazes me is you have a way to fix this problem without compromising yourself. Just send it in and have it fixed. Is it really worth trying to talk yourself into doing something that is shady at best? You have a honest & easy way out. If was OK to switch at the store, they would just allow you to do it without lying.


Again guys, you're not understanding what I'm saying. At this point, thanks to the advice of the people on this forum, I will be sending it to Microsoft rather than returning it to Wal-Mart. The reason for this is because it's not worth getting in trouble for something that can be fixed by other means (now if Microsoft did not have such a generous warranty policy, then I would go to Wal-Mart and try out this return method, rather than spend another $350 on a console). My reasoning for sending it to MS has nothing to do with how "unethical" it is for me to make Wal-Mart lose a little bit of money-- I would rather have them lose $350 than me losing it. Trust me, my conscience would not be hurting if I saved $350 by "cheating" the Wal-Mart returns system. I hope you guys would not be crazy enough to pass on doing this too if you no longer had the warranty available (and assuming it was guaranteed that you wouldn't get caught for it).

However, all of that aside, again I think you guys are missing what I'm saying. I'm sending it back to MS for repair, and at this point I was just looking to hear from more people to add to the debate on what constitutes an ethical/unethical return. Because I don't get how people can say it's ethical to take a PS3 game your grandma bought you from Best Buy and return it at Wal-Mart for $60, but it's unethical to buy a 360 from Wal-Mart and then return your old one in it's place as "defective" (whereupon, Wal-Mart sends it back to Microsoft to have it replaced). They're the same thing to me, but I'm interested to know why it's different to some people. I'm not looking to pick fights was everyone, just simply have a mature discussion. So if you can't do that than just don't post at all (not saying this has happened too much yet, but I can see it coming). Or the mods can just decide that this is going nowhere and lock the topic. Either works for me.

[64Bits]

well all i can say is that i have managed a gamecrazy and all i can tell you is that we scan the barcode which shows us the serial number. so if you really take it back they will scan the serial number and a different serial number and you will be fucked. sorry to say budby. all i can say if i hope you get a dumb ass as the check out desk. lol. but also try MS they tend to be pretty faster than when the 360 came out. plus now you can track the progress on the console which i think is BS cuz they send you a console with a different Serial number. but good luck bro hope all comes well in your journey of beating the system

It's obvious you used to work for Gamecrazy. The barcode has nothing to do with the serial number, as they are completely different. The barcode on the 360 (i.e. the UPC) is the same as the rest of the 360's.

As far as my 2 cents concerning the topic of this thread, don't even bother. Just stick with Microsoft. I don't own a 360, and never have, but it seems like MS has people's backs with the warranty now.

[monkeychemist]

It's a common happening of this board. Although they often do it themselves, people here love to be "righteous" and preach how you are immoral. Just because you thought of a way to cut corners that will benefit you and slightly (if any) will cause a loss to a big company, you are a bad guy. Wake up people, he is not making a living on this, just saving a little time. You guys are not the police of internet morality so stop your preaching.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I know someone who has done this before with their PS1/2's in the past. Can't help but feel sorry for folks who buy the dead system after it's been returned. Of course, they themselves could return it for another unit and by that time the dead system is off to god knows where. I can understand the why's but, shouldn't you just go with MS on this one? If your still in warranty I don't see much of a need to do it that way.

[otaku]

I work at Kmart and had a guy buy a 360 only to return it to the store a few hours later with the red rings of death naturally I checked it out first we gave him another 360 and sent this one back to MS

[monkeychemist]

...Can't help but feel sorry for folks who buy the dead system after it's been returned.

No, he said he would tell them it is broken, so no one but Microsoft will have to deal with the broken console...it is their faulty product so I see no wrong doing.

In any case, maybe you should check out their inventory to make sure they have newer models or you are going to have to do this again in 6 months.

[Icarus Moonsight]

No matter what he tells them he's still under MS's warranty. If his system died outside of warranty then I could understand the switcheroo though. I also figured that sending the thing back for replacement would be less of a hassle than reupping the cash for a replacement just to get a refund on the gimped system later. There is a slim chance that he wouldn't get a refund if the person he's dealing with on the other side of the counter is a douche or having a bad day. Both quite common where Walmart is concerned.