lightguns and televisions (technical questions)

[Teknik_SE-R]

I know that pretty much every light gun (up to guncon3 and that 3rd party gun that was made for xbox/ps2) MUST have a CRT for them to work, HOWEVER, I had a few questions that I have never had answered, but I'm guessing I can answer them right.

I just need some confirmation

both rear projection and front projection CRTs work, but front works better in high ambient light (I'm thinking back to the arcade cabinets that were enclosed so the rear projection screens didn't wash out)

HDTV CRTs don't work (based on trying to get NES games to work with my 36" panasonic flat screen crt that runs at 1080i) Can someone exlpain this to me? does it have something to do with it operating on 1080i and due to the higher number of horizontal lines, the cathode ray timing is now off from what the game is running off of (480i)?

A follow up question to that would be how does the flat screen CRT work and would that be affecting functionality also? i assume that to draw the edges of the of the flat screen without noticeable lag, that the gun sped would have to change, effectively altering the Cathode ray timing and affecting functionality of the lightgun aswell.

My reason for asking:
I have that monstrous panasonic in my garage, it just wouldn't turn on one day, so it sounds like it isn't a tube problem and may be easily fixed. So I was debating taking it to a repair man to diagnose it and, if reasonably priced, fix it. OR just buy a new CRT that operates at 480i

I think i answered my own question and I should just buy a 480i CRT with a bubble screen

anyone willing to do a sanity check for me?

[TheDomesticInstitution]

The reason a zapper (or other light gun) for that matter won't work on a CRT HDTV (and by my understanding any other HDTV) is because, according to wikipedia, "Due to the Zapper's technological limitations, it is not compatible with HDTVs. The video processing built into a HDTV (scaling, upconverting) can cause a time delay of several frames with the picture output by the console so that even well-aimed shots, which would register as "true" on standard televisions, almost always fail as a result of this time latency"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NES_Zapper (link)

I found this out recently, when I tried to play my NES on a Sony CRT hv-30hs420 30 inch widescreen TV. No matter how close I stuck the gun to the TV I couldn't get it to hit the ducks on Duck Hunt. I thought my Zapper had a problem until I googled, and came up with this entry. Now, trying to get a more technical explanation, than that entry, may be what your looking for... and I couldn't be of much help there- I myself am a bit of a tech nerd- but that explanation satisfied me. Also, I myself have a Sony 24 inch CRT flatscreen, which runs the old fashioned interlaced video- and I never had a problem getting it to work properly. I haven't played Duck Hunt on that in several years- but I'm 99 percent sure it had no problems- and to be 100 percent, I can hook it up for you later tonite, to see. By my understanding, a flat screen TV, offered no technical innovations, other than a flat piece of glass- meaning video signal is identical. If you wanna play light gun games, a flat will be fine. If you want a super technical explanation, as to why it won't work- including 3:2 pulldown or screen frequency issues, you may have to wait, till a more advanced user comes along... or go ask over at www.Avsforum.com - which will no doubt provide an answer which will include such tech porn details. So hopefully I've given you a starting point. Let me know if you'd like me to try on my flat screen TV and give you final results.

[Mr. Smashy]

If you have a GunCon 3 as you claim, you shouldn't have a problem running it on an HDTV.

I would however like to know how you managed to get your hands on a GunCon 3.

[Teknik_SE-R]

I don't have a guncon 3

I jsut remember the annoncement of it saying it will work with DLP LCD and plasma... I'm guessing it is gonna have to have IR "sensors" like the the wiimote and that 3rd party gun for the xbox/ps2

I DO however have a saturn with a bunch of light gun games (just started collecting) and I have had an NES since I was a kid. I also wanted to start getting PS2 light gun games.

Like I said, I have a 36" 1080i CRT that is broken and was debating getting it diagnosed/repaired or just getting a new SDTV CRT or even rear projection, and lightgun functionality weighs heavily on that decision.

I noticed that it didn't work on my CRT and it didn't work on my DLP either, so I looked into it and just wanted a sanity check and recommendations from more experienced light gun gamers

TDI,

thanks for the info, I think that is enough to sway me in the right direction.

Now, does anyone know where to find a rear projection CRT SDTV? all I can find are 32" front projection CRTs and I'd like a tv that is bigger than that

[roushimsx]

If you have a GunCon 3 as you claim

Nowhere in his original post did he claim to have a GunCon 3. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

Cool... glad I could help a little. Make sure you try it out on a CRT rear first, because I have heard rumors about the guns not working right, but I can't verify that first hand. If I were you I'd find a cheap CRT for your old games, and have an HD for your newer systems. Unless you don't have the space.

[Trebuken]

There are lightguns for the PS2 that will worl with an HDTV. THey are 3rd party and have gotten poor reviews but they do exist.

[Mr. Smashy]

Nowhere in his original post did he claim to have a GunCon 3. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

And you need to work on that problem you have with redundancy. The use of bold text in false statements often raises my ire. I just wanted him to correct himself regarding the GunCon 3. Mission accomplished, I guess.

For classic systems, rhythm games, and light gun games, I keep an SDTV right next to my HDTV. It still gets plenty of use but I'm still looking to get an XRGB converter to cover rhythm and classics. I have yet to find a better solution than a regular old CRT television for light gun games.

[Teknik_SE-R]

I recently found a local classifieds website that has LOADS of used SDTV CRT big screens for between $300 and $700 for a decent 50" to 62" one. I did see one as new as 2004, but most are closer to 1999- 2000 mfg date.

doing a bit of research, replacing a gun (there are three: RGB) on a crt rear projection TV is around $150-250 a gun, but they are still available and reasonably priced to replace, and so are screens...in contrast to replacing an entire tube on a front projection CRT which is extremely expensive...

So, it is smarter to own a rear projection if you want to keep playing your old light gun games till you die... and not only that, but big screens are alot more fun with light guns than tiny ones.

BTW i currently have a 27" that wont work with some games, i'm thinking cuz it is developing a horrible red tint.

I'll be buying a big screen for my bedroom in the next couple months. we'll see how long it lasts there. Eventually, my wife will freak over watching TV on it at 10ft away. Oh well, I'll just tell her if the TV leaves, then so do I.

I wish I had a basement. Course then I'd have to start researching MAME cabs