Went through 2 XB360's in 12 hours, WTH!

[camarotuner]

Went home with Bioshock, fired up the 360 and about 15 minutes later the red ring of death shows up to tell me I don't need to play right now. I box it up, drive it back to the store under warranty, get another one, drive the hell home, plug it all back in, and it's friggin DOA.

This is REALLY getting annoying.

[mills]

honestly right now it's not worth trouble. All xbox360's are faulty and have the potential to fail. I would wait til microsoft works that shit out for good before buying one. 360 owners will be kicking themselves later when microsoft releases better hardware.

[RPG_Fanatic]

I bought Bioshock on the it came out and my 360 ringed out too. My 360 never had any trouble before Bioshock. So I took it to a EB and traded it in on an Elite so far no problems.

[MegaDrive20XX]

I admit, BioShock has frozen my 360 once already and the slowdown has appeared 3 times so far when too much action is going on in the game. Especially since I got my new 360 back in July.

[RPG_Fanatic]

I admit, BioShock has frozen my 360 once already and the slowdown has appeared 3 times so far when too much action is going on in the game.

Mine froze 4 times then ringed out.

[gepeto]

Went home with Bioshock, fired up the 360 and about 15 minutes later the red ring of death shows up to tell me I don't need to play right now. I box it up, drive it back to the store under warranty, get another one, drive the hell home, plug it all back in, and it's friggin DOA.

This is REALLY getting annoying.


There is alot of info missing here. Question what was the store that the warranty was under and was it a new boxed replacement system or a trade in replacement?

[otaku]

Just the last month or so I've sold 3 360s and two elites one of the 360s came back DOA a few hours later

Sounds like bioshock is one of those games that pushes the hardware

[diskoboy]

Actually, I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with the discs for Bioshock.

Everytime I try and start it up, I get a dirty disc error. I wipe it down, and it works fine.

Every single time I try and start the disc, it does it - everytime. The only other game I have that gives me this much trouble is Oblivion.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Mine froze 4 times then ringed out.

Yeesh, that's nasty

[sabre2922]

There is alot of info missing here. Question what was the store that the warranty was under and was it a new boxed replacement system or a trade in replacement?

Soooo would that REALLY make any freaking difference?

If it was a "new boxed replacement" or "trade in replacement"?

wich would make it OK and NOT AS BAD when someone buys a NEW GAME CONSOLE FOR OVER $350.00 AND IT CRAPS OUT ON THEM AFTER A FEW MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY? or is DOA?

The whole faulty 360 thing is complete BULLSHIT anway you try to spin it.

There is no fucking way to put a good spin on how Microsoft continues to sell what is a faulty and defective game console to consumers.

Microsoft should have recalled ALL of the 360s from both the stores and consumers and replaced EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM with a REAL AND NEW Xbox360.
And only after they finished a more reliable version of the console with new heatsinks a new chipset or whatever the hell would make it an overall better quality product then released them back to retailers.

[Hwj_Chim]

:-/ This sounds a lot like what was going on with dead rising and chomehounds. I just hope the new chip set will help with these problemsX_x Also why is it when ever this system is pushed it fails?

[thegardentool]

I bought my Xbox 360 Jan. 2006 and it gave me the red rings of death twice. The first time was in June 2006. I received the console back about two weeks later and it did it again. I sent the console off for the third time and has not given me a lick of trouble. I want to say this one is manufactured Nov. 2005.

It sucks that you guys are having issues and I've been there as well. Look at computer hardware and its failure rate if you think this is bad.

[whoisKeel]

I've had Bioshock freeze up about 5 times now. I'm pissed because I'm close to the end and I lost a good 40 mins of playtime this evening (went on a no-save spree). It does always seem to freeze on menu-type stuff (like vending machines or picking up a plasmid) and not in-action stuff.

I've gotten quite a few DRE's on games so far, but no red rings.

[Nesmaster]

BioShock froze twice on me as well, losing about an hours worth of progress each time. Once was when I went to harvest a Little Sister, the other I do not remember. My console is still going strong from April 2006, FWIW.

[Mianrtcv]

Not to get off target here. Are there any reliable numbers regarding hardware failure for major console releases? I can understand why such info would be hard to have logged as fact,considering its a blackeye to the producer. After seeing this site and numerous others it appears the 360 is one of the more problematic harware items in recent memory. I do understand also that some failure may be from improper handling, storage etc. Still... The complaints seem to be steady thus far.

[G-Boobie]

Actually, I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with the discs for Bioshock.

Everytime I try and start it up, I get a dirty disc error. I wipe it down, and it works fine.

Every single time I try and start the disc, it does it - everytime. The only other game I have that gives me this much trouble is Oblivion.

There's nothing wrong with your discs. Its the craptastic hardware in your 360 that's the problem; pretty soon you'll get that message every time you load up any disc, and you'll get to experience the joy of finding out that microsoft doesn't extend their generous red ring warranty to their sub-standard DVD drives burning out. I hope you have the extended warranty.

The freezing is something that happens regardless of the state of your console. The hardware's not really optimized for the kind of roaming and ecology management with AI that are at the heart of the two games(at least, that's the only reason I can come up with. Oblivion doesnt do this crap on PS3).

For the record, I've had the same problem with Oblivion and Bioshock, both with the dirty disc error and freezing. The disc error was solved by sending my 360 to Microsoft... Again. The freezing is something you just have to live with, I guess.

Sorry

[Poofta!]

anyone stop to think that maybe its something in the code of the game...

[Mianrtcv]

anyone stop to think that maybe its something in the code of the game...


So it would be like the 360 watching the movie "The Ring", then giving itself the red ring from game code. That is evil. ;)

[FlufflePuff]

I've had Bioshock freeze up about 5 times now. I'm pissed because I'm close to the end and I lost a good 40 mins of playtime this evening (went on a no-save spree). It does always seem to freeze on menu-type stuff (like vending machines or picking up a plasmid) and not in-action stuff.

I've gotten quite a few DRE's on games so far, but no red rings.


I'm having this exact same problem, but mine only happens when I try to hack machines. I too made the mistake of going on a non-save spree and lost an hour or so of playtime. I was so mad. So far I've been lucky in that my 360 has worked fine. Honestly though, I don't play it that much. I've probably used it a total of 30 hours since getting it for Xmas last year.

[thegardentool]

honestly right now it's not worth trouble. All xbox360's are faulty and have the potential to fail. I would wait til microsoft works that shit out for good before buying one. 360 owners will be kicking themselves later when microsoft releases better hardware.

Okay, anything with moving parts have faults and the potential to fail. What makes the Xbox 360 any different from any other console?


There's nothing wrong with your discs. Its the craptastic hardware in your 360 that's the problem; pretty soon you'll get that message every time you load up any disc, and you'll get to experience the joy of finding out that microsoft doesn't extend their generous red ring warranty to their sub-standard DVD drives burning out. I hope you have the extended warranty.

The freezing is something that happens regardless of the state of your console. The hardware's not really optimized for the kind of roaming and ecology management with AI that are at the heart of the two games(at least, that's the only reason I can come up with. Oblivion doesnt do this crap on PS3).

For the record, I've had the same problem with Oblivion and Bioshock, both with the dirty disc error and freezing. The disc error was solved by sending my 360 to Microsoft... Again. The freezing is something you just have to live with, I guess.

Sorry

I never had a problem with my copy of Oblivion for the 360. My 360 never froze on any game yet still red ringed. I'm not going to attack Microsoft for it. I spent one month without my 360 and it wasn't the end of the world. Now it probably was due to too much heat, which is probably an oversight on Microsoft's part. They could have fixed by now but instead they decided to just extend the warranties.

Bioshock for PC has been having some problems as well. I know I'm going to steer away from this game that I was acutally going to buy for either the PC or 360.

[heybtbm]

anyone stop to think that maybe its something in the code of the game...

That was the problem with the freezing issues in Dead Rising and Just Cause. It was poor programming, not the 360.

[gepeto]

Soooo would that REALLY make any freaking difference?

If it was a "new boxed replacement" or "trade in replacement"?

wich would make it OK and NOT AS BAD when someone buys a NEW GAME CONSOLE FOR OVER $350.00 AND IT CRAPS OUT ON THEM AFTER A FEW MINUTES OF GAMEPLAY? or is DOA?

The whole faulty 360 thing is complete BULLSHIT anway you try to spin it.

There is no fucking way to put a good spin on how Microsoft continues to sell what is a faulty and defective game console to consumers.

Microsoft should have recalled ALL of the 360s from both the stores and consumers and replaced EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM with a REAL AND NEW Xbox360.
And only after they finished a more reliable version of the console with new heatsinks a new chipset or whatever the hell would make it an overall better quality product then released them back to retailers.


The difference is that with all the hardware failures alot of bad people with no character are trading in defectives as good. Alot of game stores with so called warrenties try to swap a traded in used one. I have seen this happen. So when he said he had 2 go bad I would be surprised if it was a new out the box.

It is amazing how poeple just dump the bad ones off. I think trade in credit is going to drop to record lows or ultimately stop on first run 360s like the first run ps1.

For the record I have been a victim of the ring of death as well as all of my friends. It does suck but it is the best system in town gaming wise and the warrenty for that has been extended to 3 yrs. I am good with that.

[Rob2600]

This is like the Coleco Adam all over again.

[gepeto]

The real scary part is if some one wants to sell you a used premium 360 for 100-150 how do you get over the fact that the red ring might pop up a take the deal without your heartbeating evertime you powerup.

I bought one used for 210 with an extra controller and ncaa. but even though it is on the shelf of a rainy day the sword of damocles still hangs.

[diskoboy]

Im begining to form a theory that the discs may be causing alot of these red rings.

If you've ever noticed, when you get a new 360 disc out of it's case, it has kind of a staticy feel. I've always made a habit of wiping down my games with a microfiber cloth before first playing them.

On most discs, when you wipe the bottoms, they feel sticky or staticy, when you first take them out of the case. I'm wondering if you put a staticy disc into the drive, if that could somehow affect the hardware, on the older systems?

[heybtbm]

I realize that my post will be ignored, but I am 99.9% certain that every 360 has the potential to get the "red-lights". It's simply a matter of how long and hard you run your 360. If it gets too hot, it will eventually break. It seems to only take a few solid day-long gaming sessions to do it.

People who play several hours a day will overheat their 360's quicker than someone who only plays an hour or so ever few days. Some 360's will break sooner than others, but they all will fail after they get too hot for too long.

This is so obvious to me...I'm not sure why people are coming up with all these unlikely scenarios and crazy hypotheses.

[sabre2922]

Okay, anything with moving parts have faults and the potential to fail. What makes the Xbox 360 any different from any other console?


The incredibly HIGH failure rate of the Xbox360 itself it what makes it different from any other disc based console since the original Turbographix-16/ Turbo Duo console wich was the first MAINSTREAM console to have a cd-add on.

Ive been a gamer for over 25 years and throughout ALL of those years I have never seen such a high failure rate among ANY CD or DVD based console.
That includes the PS2s disc read error and the PSones first batch of cheap ass disk drives -the very early PSXs had a disc drive that slide on freaking plastic strips that would quickly wear out thus the whole "turn your PSone upside down TEMPORARY fix meaning that eventually the OTHER side would wear out too. The good PSones are the ones that have the medal bars that the drive slides on thus lasting YEARS longer than the cheap POS "plastic strip" versions.

Also I dont troll around posting BS and flames just for the hell of it.

The fact is that the 360 IS a great system for certain types of gamers and I would have already bought one if not for the terrible design flaws that plague the current 360s such as warped circuit boards from overheating and rushed production with the first batch of 360s.

BTW the only REAL difference between the early Xbox360 elites and the other Xbox360 SKUs hardware wise is the fact that Microsoft started to epoxy the damn cheap motherboard so that they would not warp under high heat conditions one of the MAJOR causes of the 3 red rings of death.

NOW like I have stated in past posts concerning the 360 I do believe that within the next 3 months or by say Xmas '07 many of the NEW 360s will have the new heatsinks (wich many of the newer ones do NOW) and other improvements implemented into the console therefore making them much more reliable than any previous 360s.

[sabre2922]

I realize that my post will be ignored, but I am 99.9% certain that every 360 has the potential to get the "red-lights". It's simply a matter of how long and hard you run your 360. If it gets too hot, it will eventually break. It seems to only take a few solid day-long gaming sessions to do it.

People who play several hours a day will overheat their 360's quicker than someone who only plays an hour or so ever few days. Some 360's will break sooner than others, but they all will fail after they get too hot for too long.

This is so obvious to me...I'm not sure why people are coming up with all these unlikely scenarios and crazy hypotheses.

Agreed

[Alucard79]

I hate hearing that everyone has so many problems with their 360's. Got mine back in Dec. 06 and have close to 3000 hours of play time on it without any problems. Friends of mine say I should get paid by Microsoft to advertise like the old Toyota commercials "I've got 1 million miles out of my Toyota and it's still going strong."

[ProgrammingAce]

Without getting into specifics of hardware failure, i thought it was pretty odd that my 360 wasn't even remotely warm after 7+ hours of bioshock.

And for the people who think code kills 360's, um no. The only time the sftware was the culprit was due to a bug in a dashboard update a while back. If you had installed one update without installing the previous update, your console would die because of some critical missing files.

Anything beyond that has always been hardware.

[gepeto]

Agreed


The day I got red ringed I had turned the system on played less than 5 mins. I got called away turned it off came back 5 min later turned it on red ring.

My balls dropped at that time because all I was hearing about just happened
I paused and prayed turned the power on boom red again. So I can't say why mine went it was lightly used alot of live. It just went and never came back thay sent me jaggie the pretender.

[G-Boobie]

I realize that my post will be ignored, but I am 99.9% certain that every 360 has the potential to get the "red-lights". It's simply a matter of how long and hard you run your 360. If it gets too hot, it will eventually break. It seems to only take a few solid day-long gaming sessions to do it.

People who play several hours a day will overheat their 360's quicker than someone who only plays an hour or so ever few days. Some 360's will break sooner than others, but they all will fail after they get too hot for too long.

This is so obvious to me...I'm not sure why people are coming up with all these unlikely scenarios and crazy hypotheses.

You're totally correct, but I thought this was an established fact... The 360 is very poorly cooled, and there isn't really enough thermal paste on the processors, or adhesive holding the GPU and CPU on the boards. You get the 3 red lights, AKA 'Red Ring of Death' when the motherboard warps due to heat and 'pops' the GPU and CPU connectors right off. Yes?

The disc drives from the original run of launch 360's through late summer 2006 (I think? Is that right? Does anyone know for sure?) were also bad, resulting in burned out lasers, scratched discs as a result of those lasers, and more heat waste bleeding into the guts of an already overheated machine. I'm not certain that Microsoft has copped to this; I know they make you pay for it, since that's how it went down for me.

And to anyone who did NOT have problems with Oblivion or Bioshock on their 360... I wish I knew why. Maybe you aren't playing in sessions of four or more hours.....?

[Sothy]

only problems i ever had was from dead rising.

oblivion works fine.
oh well could be worse I could have bought a ps3 and be playing motor storm and shitty ports.

[s1lence]

only problems i ever had was from dead rising.

oblivion works fine.
oh well could be worse I could have bought a ps3 and be playing motor storm and shitty ports.

ftw, Seriously if the 360 sucks so bad why is it getting the majority of new releases. If it was as popular as the PS3 i don't believe people would be complaining as much. Yes do they fail, sure. Does it suck that it fails sure. Will I continue to choose my 360 over my PS3, yes, until Sony pulls their damn heads out of their ass and discovers that they should release some good games.

I'll also say that in terms of Bioshock problems, its not just the 360. PC users had have a ton of problems as well. Me personally, I have yet to have a problem with Bioshock.

[koster]

I hate hearing that everyone has so many problems with their 360's. Got mine back in Dec. 06 and have close to 3000 hours of play time on it without any problems. Friends of mine say I should get paid by Microsoft to advertise like the old Toyota commercials "I've got 1 million miles out of my Toyota and it's still going strong."
Wow! That's roughly averaging 10-11 hours a day, everyday, since you got it. Where do you find the time?

[8-bitNesMan]

He takes catnaps with his headset on. What he didn't tell you peoples is that 85% of his marathon playing time has been devoted to Barbie Horse Adventures and That's So Raven.

[zektor]

Well, I won't say that the 360 sucks at all. I love the games for this system. But, I will probably never get one again.

Being one guy who has had a few red ring systems (original, then replacements) as well as seeing most of my friends and co-workers around me have the same stinkin' issue, I just cannot trust the unit ever again. Sad really.

[Lothars]

ftw, Seriously if the 360 sucks so bad why is it getting the majority of new releases. If it was as popular as the PS3 i don't believe people would be complaining as much. Yes do they fail, sure. Does it suck that it fails sure. Will I continue to choose my 360 over my PS3, yes, until Sony pulls their damn heads out of their ass and discovers that they should release some good games.


I think it's 100% the fact that the 360 got out a year early and that's the only reason why it's getting the majority of new releases, I honestly don't believe it will keep up even though I love my 360 it's quality is crap and it's the biggest problem and I don't have faith in Microsoft.

Give it aa year and it will be a totally different ball game IMO.

[s1lence]

I'm really surprised that Sony hasn't ran with the fact that the 360s fail all the time. You think that someone there would say "Hey this is our chance!!".

[gum_drops]

ftw, Seriously if the 360 sucks so bad why is it getting the majority of new releases.

Well, its been out nearly 3 years and has a good install base.


If it was as popular as the PS3 i don't believe people would be complaining as much.

The 360 isn't as popular as the PS3, thats news to me. People, including myself, have been complaining about the PS3 line-up and price since it was released. If the PS3 was burning out like the xbox 360 you better believe everyone would be riding them just as hard, come on.

[G-Boobie]

Look, I'm not at ALL saying that the 360 doesn't have some absolutely must-play games on it. I'm not hating on the platform; I'm hating on the piece of shit hardware.

Microsoft didn't write off 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS because they were drunk or feeling charitable... They did so to avoid a recall, because their console was produced on the cheap, and was poorly engineered to begin with. This by now is an established FACT, and I don't care how many great games are available on the system.

I've owned THREE of the goddamn things since launch. That is UNACCEPTABLE. My PS2 works after five years of abuse. My Saturn works after what, ten? My original toaster NES works after twenty five. My Gamecube works like a charm, and it had beer spilled into the disc tray. I own a fair number of consoles, and they're all in great working order, some after decades of use. The 360 is less than three years old as a platform.

Xbox live is an excellently designed interface, and forever changed the way I'll look at console gaming. Bioshock, Sylpheed, Halo 3, Eternal Sonata, and so on are games I would rather not live without. Therefore, I continue to put up with the 360. But I have earned the right to hate the machine, since it's cost me near a thousand dollars over two years.

And all the people who dismiss complaints about the 360 because 'they've never had a problem'?. I guess I wish I had your luck.

/end rant.

[intvsama]

This is like the Coleco Adam all over again.

Ahh, she's a beaut'. You can't beat a Coleco. How many can I put ya' down for, a lot? Please say a lot, I need this. Now, let's talk rustproofing. These Colecos will rust up on you like that! *snaps fingers*

[heybtbm]

Well, its been out nearly 3 years and has a good install base.

The 360 has been out 1 yr. 9 mo.

[Alucard79]

Wow! That's roughly averaging 10-11 hours a day, everyday, since you got it. Where do you find the time?


He takes catnaps with his headset on. What he didn't tell you peoples is that 85% of his marathon playing time has been devoted to Barbie Horse Adventures and That's So Raven.


1. I don't sleep a lot. 2. I have a very comfy recliner. 3. I have friends like 8bitnesman that I would rather not hang out with...

[s1lence]

Well, its been out nearly 3 years and has a good install base.



The 360 isn't as popular as the PS3, thats news to me. People, including myself, have been complaining about the PS3 line-up and price since it was released. If the PS3 was burning out like the xbox 360 you better believe everyone would be riding them just as hard, come on.

It was sacasism btw. Oh and its not a 3 year old system either.

[sav127]

Look, I'm not at ALL saying that the 360 doesn't have some absolutely must-play games on it. I'm not hating on the platform; I'm hating on the piece of shit hardware.

Microsoft didn't write off 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS because they were drunk or feeling charitable... They did so to avoid a recall, because their console was produced on the cheap, and was poorly engineered to begin with. This by now is an established FACT, and I don't care how many great games are available on the system.

I've owned THREE of the goddamn things since launch. That is UNACCEPTABLE. My PS2 works after five years of abuse. My Saturn works after what, ten? My original toaster NES works after twenty five. My Gamecube works like a charm, and it had beer spilled into the disc tray. I own a fair number of consoles, and they're all in great working order, some after decades of use. The 360 is less than three years old as a platform.

Xbox live is an excellently designed interface, and forever changed the way I'll look at console gaming. Bioshock, Sylpheed, Halo 3, Eternal Sonata, and so on are games I would rather not live without. Therefore, I continue to put up with the 360. But I have earned the right to hate the machine, since it's cost me near a thousand dollars over two years.

And all the people who dismiss complaints about the 360 because 'they've never had a problem'?. I guess I wish I had your luck.

/end rant.

I am in comlete agreement with this.

All of my systems that i own work fine after years of abuse.

NES - 21 yrs.
SNES - 15 yrs.
Genesis - 14 yrs.
Gameboy - 18 yrs.
PS1 - 12 yrs.
N 64 - 10 yrs.
Gamecube - 6 yrs.
PS2 - 6 yrs.
GBA - 4 yrs.
DS - 2 yrs.
DS lite - 1 yrs.
Wii - < 1yr

However I've had two red rings of death on two different xbox 360's in that time. right now I'm waiting for mine to come back from Microsoft again.

This is unnaceptable. A console should be able to be enjoyed 20 years from now, not until it breaks again.

I am off base for expecting a system to have the longevity similar to these previous systems or what?

[caveman_games]

I am in comlete agreement with this.

All of my systems that i own work fine after years of abuse.

NES - 21 yrs.
SNES - 15 yrs.
Genesis - 14 yrs.
Gameboy - 18 yrs.
PS1 - 12 yrs.
N 64 - 10 yrs.
Gamecube - 6 yrs.
PS2 - 6 yrs.
GBA - 4 yrs.
DS - 2 yrs.
DS lite - 1 yrs.
Wii - < 1yr

However I've had two red rings of death on two different xbox 360's in that time. right now I'm waiting for mine to come back from Microsoft again.

This is unnaceptable. A console should be able to be enjoyed 20 years from now, not until it breaks again.

I am off base for expecting a system to have the longevity similar to these previous systems or what?
I would wait til microsoft works that shit out for good before buying one



Microsoft has no idea how to take care of this problem!

I am sick and tired of seeing all these problems with the 360 and people wondering why they are the only one with this problem.

It is apparent that none of the 360's work, then you see posts that state:

"Buy the elite it is made with premium pieces!"

Microsoft is so up to their necks in shit that it doesn't matter what they do now.

THE 360 IS NEAR TO ONE OF THE WORST SYSTEMS EVER MANUFACTURED........PERIOD!!!!!!


dont buy it.
save your money.
buy a pc instead
every good game microsoft makes will be on pc one day....

buy a ps3


no problems there! (hint! hint!)

[s1lence]

Yeah because PC's never have problems......

[Rob2600]

Yeah because PC's never have problems......

My old 386 Tandy desktop still worked after seven years. My old K6-2 HP tower still worked after five years. My Pentium 4 Dell tower still works after five years, too. In addition, only one hard drive has died in the fifteen years my family has owned computers.

The Xbox 360 hasn't even been out for two years and supposedly half of them don't work. That is unacceptable. Again, I liken it to the Coleco Adam. It was a huge flop, partly because of its ridiculous 50 percent failure rate.

Some people feel the Xbox 360 is great because it has a library of several highly rated games. I don't agree with that logic. What if 50 percent of Apple iPods were defective? Would they still be considered great just because iTunes has a library of hundreds of highly rated songs?

[kaedesdisciple]

My old 386 Tandy desktop still worked after seven years. My old K6-2 HP tower still worked after five years. My Pentium 4 Dell tower still works after five years, too. In addition, only one hard drive has died in the fifteen years my family has owned computers.

The Xbox 360 hasn't even been out for two years and supposedly half of them don't work. That is unacceptable. Again, I liken it to the Coleco Adam. It was a huge flop, partly because of its ridiculous 50 percent failure rate.

Some people feel the Xbox 360 is great because it has a library of several highly rated games. I don't agree with that logic. What if 50 percent of Apple iPods were defective? Would they still be considered great just because iTunes has a library of hundreds of highly rated songs?


OK, everyone needs to stop comparing electronics that were designed and manufactured 20 years apart. Methods have changed completely and we all know they don't make them like they used to. Furthermore, those computers you mentioned likely cost far more than the 360 did (especially factoring for inflation) and likely used better parts. I'm not even going to touch broken computer parts as I have seen too many over the course of my career. The fact of the matter is, we get quite a lot of processing power with the 360 for a very low price.

Yes, Microsoft screwed up, they made a lot of faulty consoles and cut corners they shouldn't have. But, at least they are trying to make some good on it by extending the warranty to 3 years. Doing a full recall would completely cripple the platform and is not feasible from a fiscal or manufacturing point of view.

Drop the point about the iPod, too. You complain about 50%, try ALL iPods had one humongous flaw that everyone bought into and accepted for a time: the battery that could not be replaced without an expensive repair job from Apple or buying a new iPod.

If we're going to run your logic, the original pin connectors on the toaster NES wear out a LOT. Back in the day it was much harder to get this fixed than it is now. Does that flaw lessen the consoles greatness in the minds of many despite its great library? Hardly.

Apples and oranges, my friend.

[Merlins Beard]

If we're going to run your logic, the original pin connectors on the toaster NES wear out a LOT. Back in the day it was much harder to get this fixed than it is now. Does that flaw lessen the consoles greatness in the minds of many despite its great library? Hardly.

Yes, many of the pins may wear out, but this usually only happens after many, many years of use. Did approximately 1/2 of all NES consoles have pin connectors that broke within the first year? Comparing the 360's failure rate to those associated with broken NES pin connectors is quite idiotic in my opinion.

[Rob2600]

OK, everyone needs to stop comparing electronics that were designed and manufactured 20 years apart. ... The fact of the matter is, we get quite a lot of processing power with the 360 for a very low price.

Some people are going to great lengths to justify the fact that they were duped into spending over $500 on something that was poorly designed and will break soon, if it hasn't already.


Drop the point about the iPod, too. ... ALL iPods had one humongous flaw that everyone bought into and accepted for a time: the battery that could not be replaced without an expensive repair job from Apple or buying a new iPod.

Not being able to replace the iPod's battery poses a problem sometimes, but at least most of them last several years. If 50 percent of all iPod batteries died in less than two years, that'd be a much bigger problem.

[kaedesdisciple]

Some people are going to great lengths to justify the fact that they were duped into spending over $500 on something that was poorly designed and will break soon, if it hasn't already.

Way to take everything I said way out of context. I fully admitted that the consoles were faulty and that Microsoft cut corners. I'm sure mine will break at some point, I'm sure I will send it in for repair or replacement, I'm sure I'll get it back and I'm sure I'll get over it. So will many, many others, so why carry on this crusade to enlighten us unwashed mortals? This is a horse that has been beaten, quite brutally, to death.

[heybtbm]

Some people are going to great lengths to justify the fact that they were duped into spending over $500 on something that was poorly designed and will break soon, if it hasn't already.

Please. No 360 owner was "duped" into anything.


so why carry on this crusade to enlighten us unwashed mortals? This is a horse that has been beaten, quite brutally, to death.

Exactly. The condescension is starting to get a little nauseating.

[s1lence]

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

[Kevin H]

Quick Questions
1.How many people whose 360 has died is using any of the external cooling fans
2. And for those who haven't had the problems and use fans which ones do you use?

[gepeto]

Quick Questions
1.How many people whose 360 has died is using any of the external cooling fans
2. And for those who haven't had the problems and use fans which ones do you use?


external fans are not an issue. Every pc logged onto digital press has some sort of a pass thru to a fan. Yeah the inter cooler initial connection may had been not the strongest but the whole draining power messing up 360. I believe is bogus.

fan or not the 360s were dropping like flies.

[Merlins Beard]

Please. No 360 owner was "duped" into anything.


Yeah, right. A statement like this is just blatantly untrue! Take, just for example, the blue-collar parents of some dumbass kid who wants a 360 for Christmas or his birthday or whatever. You think all of these parents know about the console's problems, and won't be slightly bemused or distraught at the $350ish wasted on such a shoddy product?

You've got to be kidding me. As fun as it would be, not everyone's world revolves around video games. If it's on the shelves to buy and is $350 dollars, people expect a quality product, especially those who can't afford such things all the time. Place a red "WARNING: 50% Console Failure Rate" sticker on the box and see how many sell. This is the only way to ensure the 360 owner wasn't duped.

[kaedesdisciple]

Yeah, right. A statement like this is just blatantly untrue! Take, just for example, the blue-collar parents of some dumbass kid who wants a 360 for Christmas or his birthday or whatever. You think all of these parents know about the console's problems, and won't be slightly bemused or distraught at the $350ish wasted on such a shoddy product?

You've got to be kidding me. As fun as it would be, not everyone's world revolves around video games. If it's on the shelves to buy and is $350 dollars, people expect a quality product, especially those who can't afford such things all the time. Place a red "WARNING: 50% Console Failure Rate" sticker on the box and see how many sell. This is the only way to ensure the 360 owner wasn't duped.

I don't get what your problem is. Microsoft made a shoddy product, they said "sorry, our bad, we'll fix it, on our dime." Did they like run over your dog or something? I mean shit, get over it.

And actually, I think you could still put that big red sticker on there and it'll still sell. If the dumbass kid and his parents you speak of aren't smart enough to do even a lick of product research before making such a large investment then they sure as hell aren't going to read a sticker on the box other than the one that says $349.99.

[Merlins Beard]

Well, my problem is that too many people are making overly-general statements that just aren't true. Oh, and Microsoft is "fixing it" on their dime, eh? Of the three people I know who've been retarted-ass-enough to buy a 360, two have had to send theirs back twice for repair, and the other's (bought two weeks ago) just douched out earlier this week.

No, Microsoft didn't "run over my dog," but it's still bullshit that should be spoken upon. I feel bad for parents/kids who finally are able to get something for which they've been saving, only to have it break a few months or weeks down the road. Then, after being sent in and gotten back, it's just as likely to break again. It's inexcusable really.

[heybtbm]

Of the three people I know who've been retarted-ass-enough to buy a 360.

I wouldn't be calling 360 owners "retarded" considering 90% of the forum members have bought one. BTW: you spelled retarded wrong (attn: irony police).


it's still bullshit that should be spoken upon.

And we have. Over and over and over and over. I think most modern gaming forum readers are just sick to death of the topic. Everything that could be said, has been said. Microsoft blew it. We all agree.

[Merlins Beard]

I wouldn't be calling 360 owners "retarded" considering 90% of the forum members have bought one. BTW: you spelled retarded wrong (attn: irony police).

I was speaking more to those who bought a 360 after knowing of all their associated problems. To me, yes, this was "retarded." I would guess many members here bought the console before its problems became so widespread. By the way, thanks for pointing out my error, O'Dorney. Really added to the conversation there.

[heybtbm]

By the way, thanks for pointing out my error, O'Dorney. Really added to the conversation there.

It was a joke...lighten up. Everyone should have the ability to laugh at themselves from time to time, rather than getting defensive.

[Merlins Beard]

Hah! :duh:

[s1lence]

Nice way to enter a forum, by ripping on its members.


Winnar!!!

[Merlins Beard]

"Rip its members?" Rip? It was a smiley, and a joke!

Lighten up!

[G-Boobie]

Way to take everything I said way out of context. I fully admitted that the consoles were faulty and that Microsoft cut corners. I'm sure mine will break at some point, I'm sure I will send it in for repair or replacement, I'm sure I'll get it back and I'm sure I'll get over it. So will many, many others, so why carry on this crusade to enlighten us unwashed mortals? This is a horse that has been beaten, quite brutally, to death.

Because we're fucking pissed off. 'Unwashed mortals' my ass; your 360 hasn't died, shipped, arrived back home with fucking glue all over it, sent back, lost for two weeks and finally been returned with gouges in the case..... Yet. But don't worry; when that happens, you'll get 2000 Microsoft Points as compensation. AND, since the poor customer service and dying consoles continue to be a problem, the horse is FAR from dead as of this post.

And while we're here, lets talk about an earlier post which intimates that a console engineered and released recently should be expected to break sooner than consoles of years past. That's just wrong. Maybe twenty years is a bit much to expect from a piece of allegedly high technology, but surely five or ten is more reasonable... And most of us haven't even gotten TWO YEARS.

You don't like it? Don't post.

[YoshiM]

After reading this thread, are people begging for some sort of automobile style recall? Not gonna happen.

First of all, how big is this problem really? Out of 6.75 million 360's in the US, how many have REALLY gone bad? If people are talking 30% that's about 2 million units that have been returned to Microsoft. I have a feeling that estimation has to be exaggerated and that the complaining on the Intarwebs (cause what else is it good for?) escalated the publicity of the problem.

Second, problems like this are what warranties are for. Microsoft sucked it up and extended the coverage for this problem. Send it in for repair, you get it back or get a refurbished unit. Before anyone says anything like "they should send us a new one"-why would they HAVE to do that? If there's a problem with your car and it's under warranty is the dealership going to give you a new car? Nope. It sucks that this problem happens but again, that's what warranties have always been about.

Third, what are the conditions those broken consoles coming from? In some videos I've watched on Youtube where people are showing their games or whatnot their entertainment centers or TV stands are packed to the gills with components and game systems with hardly any breathing room. Right now my newly acquired 360 (thanks GM80!) is on top of my entertainment center where the closest thing to it is the stereo and that's 6 inches away. Consoles are becoming more and more like PCs every generation and like PCs they need air to keep cool. Sony, MS and Nintendo are packing the guts into small cases so the systems aren't obtrusive so circulation is much more important. If these systems are neglected, it's no wonder they are failing.

[Rob2600]

First of all, how big is this problem really? Out of 6.75 million 360's in the US, how many have REALLY gone bad?

According to Microsoft expert Paul Thurrott, the Xbox 360's failure rate is at least 30 percent and upwards of 50 percent. That means in the last 21 months, 1.7 million to 2.9 million Xbox 360 consoles have malfunctioned in the U.S. alone. That also means in the last 21 months, Americans spent $680 million to $1.2 billion on dud Xbox 360s.


If there's a problem with your car and it's under warranty is the dealership going to give you a new car?

No, the people at the dealership won't give me a new car, but they won't fix my car with parts that will quickly malfunction, either.


Third, what are the conditions those broken consoles coming from? In some videos I've watched on Youtube where people are showing their games or whatnot their entertainment centers or TV stands are packed to the gills with components and game systems with hardly any breathing room. ... Consoles are becoming more and more like PCs every generation and like PCs they need air to keep cool. Sony, MS and Nintendo are packing the guts into small cases so the systems aren't obtrusive so circulation is much more important. If these systems are neglected, it's no wonder they are failing.

Some people insist on blaming the victims in this situation. If 5 percent of Xbox 360 consoles were breaking, I'd say it might be the users' fault, but we're talking about at least 30 percent.

Last generation, Nintendo was able to squeeze the same amount of power as the Xbox into the GameCube, which was less than half the size. It operated quietly and never overheated.

This generation, Nintendo was able to squeeze about twice as much power as the GameCube into the Wii, which is even smaller. Again, it operates quietly and doesn't overheat.

I understand the Xbox 360 is several times more powerful than the Wii, but if Nintendo can pack that much power into a tiny, silent machine, how come Microsoft is having such severe problems with a machine that's several times larger? Are the engineers at Nintendo better than the ones at Microsoft?

[YoshiM]

According to Microsoft expert Paul Thurrott, the Xbox 360's failure rate is at least 30 percent and upwards of 50 percent. That means in the last 21 months, 1.7 million to 2.9 million Xbox 360 consoles have malfunctioned in the U.S. alone. That also means in the last 21 months, Americans spent $680 million to $1.2 billion on dud Xbox 360s.

And I quote an article from Windows IT Pro:


"Out of the millions of Xbox consoles in use, Microsoft has not received any widespread reports of Xbox 360s scratching discs," a Microsoft spokesperson said. These comment echo earlier public statements the company made about widespread Xbox 360 failure rates, when it claimed that the failure rate was "acceptable" and in the 2 to 3 percent range. (Typical consumer electronics failure rates are 3 to 5 percent.) Today, we know that Xbox 360 failure rates could be as high as 50 percent, and Microsoft's $1 billion fix is the most expensive consumer electronics warranty fix in US history.

That's for scratching discs-something we've heard about looong ago. Not the overheat problem.

The "heat" (ala 3 red rings) problem Mr. Paul mentions was in his blog from an article on GameDaily Biz (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13636) about an EA staffer mentioning a 30-50% failure rate from the 300 or so units they received. It was essentially a link passing along information. Just because Thurrott typed it (or CTRL-C'd and CTRL-V'd it into his blog) doesn't mean his "Windows expertise" gives it more merit. The 30% amount i s being passed about is essentially a "guesstimate" according to and unconfirmed report from an Austrailian EB manager or just an EB manager (depending on where you read). 33% is the latest from an EB manager out of Canada. Again nothing "hard tested" (as in taking 10 360s and going all Consumer Reports on them). Plus let's not forget that some people who said they had problems with their 360 sold their unit to get a new one or something else!. I'm not sure, but does EB/Gamestop do their own refurbs? If so, that could be another problem that's adding to the overall percentage.


Some people insist on blaming the victims in this situation. If 5 percent of Xbox 360 consoles were breaking, I'd say it might be the users' fault, but we're talking about at least 30 percent.

Again, 30% is still hearsay. I'm not denying there are heat problems BUT this IS the Internet we're getting our info from. When doing some quick research for this I found the same article plastered on five different sites. Plus with the general "love" Microsoft gets from webizens (and I mean "love" sarcastically) it's a recipe for a good lynching story.


Last generation, Nintendo was able to squeeze the same amount of power as the Xbox into the GameCube, which was less than half the size. It operated quietly and never overheated.

Neither did the Xbox and it was fairly quiet except for the DVD drive for some.


This generation, Nintendo was able to squeeze about twice as much power as the GameCube into the Wii, which is even smaller. Again, it operates quietly and doesn't overheat.

I understand the Xbox 360 is several times more powerful than the Wii, but if Nintendo can pack that much power into a tiny, silent machine, how come Microsoft is having such severe problems with a machine that's several times larger? Are the engineers at Nintendo better than the ones at Microsoft?

Yeah, Nintendo went from a 485 MHz Power PC processor in the Gamecube to a 729 MHz Power PC processor for the Wii. Doesn't suck a lot of power so yes it's going to run cool.

In contrast, the Xbox 360 runs a triple core 3.2 GHz Power PC. Uses more power and generates more heat. Plus it's got a 500Mhz GPU, running twice as fast as the Wii's.

So yes, the Wii is able to be nice and quiet because it doesn't have near the horsepower the 360 has. So Nintendo's engineers aren't necessarily "better" with their design, they just weren't working with components that didn't require more cooling.

[Rob2600]

Last generation, Nintendo was able to squeeze the same amount of power as the Xbox into the GameCube, which was less than half the size. It operated quietly and never overheated.

Neither did the Xbox and it was fairly quiet except for the DVD drive for some.

My point is that two companies created two video game consoles of nearly equal ability, but one was large (Xbox) and one was small (GameCube). Nintendo's consoles seem to be more efficiently designed than Microsoft's. Is it because Nintendo has better engineers?


Nintendo went from a 485 MHz Power PC processor in the Gamecube to a 729 MHz Power PC processor for the Wii. ... In contrast, the Xbox 360 runs a triple core 3.2 GHz Power PC. Uses more power and generates more heat. ... So Nintendo's engineers aren't necessarily "better" with their design, they just weren't working with components that didn't require more cooling.

I know. My point is that, yes, the Xbox 360 is several times more powerful than the Wii, but the Xbox 360 is also several times larger than the Wii. Shouldn't the increase in size compensate for the increase in heat? What about the powerful fans in the 360? Are they just there to make noise? Again, Microsoft's engineers seem to have dropped the ball.

[sabre2922]

My point is that two companies created two video game consoles of nearly equal ability, but one was large (Xbox) and one was small (GameCube). Nintendo's consoles seem to be more efficiently designed than Microsoft's. Is it because Nintendo has better engineers?


This is just to much fun:deadhorse:

Remember Rob2600 that the original Xbox was the first home console with a BUILT IN HARD DISK DRIVE? yeaa that COULD have something to do with why the Xbox1 was so large in size when compared to the Gamecube and the PS2.

I happen to think that the PS3 looks like an old late 70s laser disc player but I still think its a great console....as soon as it actually gets some games to play on it.

[G-Boobie]

After reading this thread, are people begging for some sort of automobile style recall? Not gonna happen.

First of all, how big is this problem really? Out of 6.75 million 360's in the US, how many have REALLY gone bad? If people are talking 30% that's about 2 million units that have been returned to Microsoft. I have a feeling that estimation has to be exaggerated and that the complaining on the Intarwebs (cause what else is it good for?) escalated the publicity of the problem.

Second, problems like this are what warranties are for. Microsoft sucked it up and extended the coverage for this problem. Send it in for repair, you get it back or get a refurbished unit. Before anyone says anything like "they should send us a new one"-why would they HAVE to do that? ....

Third, what are the conditions those broken consoles coming from? If these systems are neglected, it's no wonder they are failing....

First, I understand that you're playing devils advocate here(..I think?), so no trolling. :)

To address your points, I personally know five people who've had to have their 360 sent in for repair for the red ring, and two of those people have had trouble with disc scratching as well. Five. Of the five of us, only myself and my friends brother were 'early adopters'. So for me at least, it isn't an 'intarweb' issue; its personal experience.

My 360 console sits in my entertainment center, same as my PS3, gamecube, Wii, PS2, Dreamcast, Saturn, NES, Xbox..... But the console's heat problems are hardware problems, which are exacerbated by enclosure(obviously), not caused by it.

And yes, the warranty is excellent. There's nothing to be said about that other than I don't WANT a 'new' console. I want MY console, refurbished, with all of the crap hardware replaced and the new heatsinks installed, and I think that's what most people want...It just so happens that's what you get, so that works out. A recall will never happen, since it would destroy their credibility. They'd lose the 'blown out of proportion' argument for good.

So yeah.

[s1lence]

No, the people at the dealership won't give me a new car, but they won't fix my car with parts that will quickly malfunction, either.



Lol, wow that line really made me laugh. Cars get repaired all the time with faulty parts and have to come back in.

[PentiumMMX]

My old 386 Tandy desktop still worked after seven years. My old K6-2 HP tower still worked after five years. My Pentium 4 Dell tower still works after five years, too. In addition, only one hard drive has died in the fifteen years my family has owned computers.

Yesh. I've owned an NEC PowerMate VP75 for 11 years and it still works great, and can even still get online with no problems. I think NEC should build Xbox 360s for Microsoft, because of how reliable their PCs are (Not sure about Turbografix-16, but their PCs were friggin' tanks)