First-party or third-party controllers?

[josekortez]

Anybody here found a third-party controller that was better than the one that came with a system? I just bought a Superpad 64 to replace the Nintendo one that died over the weekend, so I was just wondering if anybody had any thoughts on the subject.

Also, list your pick for the best third party accessory company. I vote for Mad Catz 'cause nobody makes a better steering wheel, and my DC Panther will always have a place on my shelf...

[Mr. NEStalgia]

As for regular controlers, 3rd party ones always feel awkward to me...be it bad design or just a cheap plastickyness feel.

I always just pay the few extra bucks for a 1st party one, but that's just me.

-=Mr. NEStalgia=-

[boatofcar]

Every third party controller asiide from Atari 2600 joysticks I've bought has malfunctioned in one way or another. 1st party controllers are worth a couple bucks more.

[josekortez]

I've gotta admit that the best third-party controller ever, in my opinion, was that Ascii pad for the SNES that had the rainbow colored buttons with turbo for every button.

But I admit to being a cheapo. The only place around here where I found a Nintendo brand controller (Circuit City) had them for $30 each. Of course there were about a dozen still sitting there. Plus there's no guarantee that the first-party stuff won't break. I still have to send this Pikachu set-64 controller back to Nintendo when I find the warranty card, and I just opened the system in December!

But I agree that there are some sucky controllers out there. Just look at the controllers Interact made for the Dreamcast. Those things rival the original Xbox controller in size!

[Charlie]

"just a cheap plastickyness feel."

Bingo. I've never cared for 3rd party controllers aside from one that I had for the SNES that had a little LCD screen and Street Fighter 2 moves programmed into it. When I first got a DC on 9-9-99 the store (Fred Meyers) didn't have any first party controllers so I got a 3rd party controller and it almost ruined what should have been an all day and all night Soul Caliber bash. Had my friend Chris not said "Fuck it" and ran an bought another DC machine for himself, the entire event we had planned would have been ruined.

The same thing happened when I was like 15 and I got an N64 and MK Trilogy. Instead of buying a first party controller for $30, I got a 3rd party one for $20 and it sucked ass. Nobody wanted to use the cursed thing. It stuck around until the 4th of July when we blew it up with a sparkler bomb. Fucker parts of it were at least 20 feet in the air lol.

[Mr-E_MaN]

I've always liked to buy the original controllers. The third party controllers have something about them that just doesn't seem right to me. When I buy something I got to do it right. Go big or go home. (doesn't really sound right in this context but oh well) Plus if you buy an original controller all of your friends will think you are cool. 8-)

[Sylentwulf]

I've always wondered why this topic keeps coming up. Third party is NEVER better than first party.

[kingpong]

I've always wondered why this topic keeps coming up. Third party is NEVER better than first party.

Third party is always better than first party when the third party controller is a joystick and the first party controller is a pad. Pad controllers, whether first or third party, rarely warrant a purchase unless you plan on using it for parts.

Of course there are many cases where third party controllers are superior. Nearly any third party NES pad is better than the first party pad. Nearly any third party PSX/PS2 controller will have a better d-pad than the first party controller. It is hard to imagine any GC controller being worse than the first party one. Getting into non-traditional controllers, there are numerous dance pads better than the pseudo first party Konami pads, the third party steering wheels for the Saturn are better than the first party, and so on and so on.

The idea that first party accessories are intrinsically better than third party accessories has provided me with more laughs over the last 10 years than anything else in gaming. Funny that it it really gained steam with the PSX, a product from a company notorious for the low quality of their consumer electronics. Thinking that a third party accessory is bad for a piece of hardware is absurd. Sometimes there are problems when certain hardware specifications change throughout the course of a platform's life and a third party device has issues (like an acceptable voltage range changing to be a narrower band of the former range, with the third party product winding up out of the new range), but these cases are rare.

Now I'm off to play my Odyssey on my Magnavox TV I have just because it only works with those, then I'll check my email on my WinXP box running only Microsoft applications, and I'll wrap up the evening by only using genuine GM replacement parts when I work on my vehicle.

[omnedon]

Generally I prefer first party all the time. However, I've made exceptions with wheels, and PC flightsticks. As far as 3rd party goes, MadCatz isn't bad. The wheel I got from them for my PS2/Xbox/NGC is decent. It even has a 5 yr warranty that the store I bought it from will honour.

First party almost always has better build quality. I never repair 3rd party controllers. I will strip them for parts to repair first parties though, like cables for example.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

I dunno. I've gotten a few third-party PS1 joysticks - not pads, but honest-to-God joysticks - that I very much prefer to the PS1 pads for most games, especially retro stuff.

[123forever]

There was this one 3rd party NES joystick I liked, but I can't remember who made it. It was red and black and kind of shaped like a comma. You held it in your left hand and used its clicky red stick with your right. I only used it for one game, Skate or Die. It was perfect for the vert ramp.

I kinda dug the PSX one handed controller. It was cool for RPGs.

I desperately need a decent Dreamcast joystick.

But all in all, I stick with 1st party.

[CrazyImpmon]

That B&R comma shaped controller could be the Epyx 500xj controller. Quite comfortable to use and with the exception of NES model, quite durable.

Generally I don't like the 3rd party controller as they feel cheap and in some cases they are cheaply made and won't last long. I do make a few exception like the steering controller (why is there never a first party steering wheel??)

[portnoyd]

I've gotta admit that the best third-party controller ever, in my opinion, was that Ascii pad for the SNES that had the rainbow colored buttons with turbo for every button.

Best.... controller.... ever. And the only third party controller I will ever use. First party all the way, otherwise.

dave

[Mayhem]

It is hard to imagine any GC controller being worse than the first party one.

Are you mad? GC pad is one of the best ergonomic pads ever. You must have hands the size of your namesake or something (ergo just about right for Xbox normal pad which IS truly bad... S one is perfect however)...

[bargora]

I've always wondered why this topic keeps coming up. Third party is NEVER better than first party.

Third party is always better than first party when the third party controller is a joystick and the first party controller is a pad. Pad controllers, whether first or third party, rarely warrant a purchase unless you plan on using it for parts.

Of course there are many cases where third party controllers are superior. Nearly any third party NES pad is better than the first party pad. Nearly any third party PSX/PS2 controller will have a better d-pad than the first party controller.
Word up!

[Eternal Champion]

I've always been wary of 3rd party--partly because the controllers just look so cheesy.
I had a decent ASCII pad for Genesis. But the original 3-button Sega pad is so great, why bother? (turbo, sure)
Majestco (sp?), who made the Genny 3 at the end of its life also took over the beloved 6-button and IT IS A PIECE OF SHIT. Unresponsive.
I had a cheap imitation SNES controller--CRAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!!! >:(
In my experience with NES, SNES, and Genny, the 1st party controllers are the best--especially that Dogbone!!
I can't comment on anything post-SNES.

[Sylentwulf]

Third party is always better than first party when the third party controller is a joystick and the first party controller is a pad. Pad controllers, whether first or third party, rarely warrant a purchase unless you plan on using it for parts.
Etc...etc..etc...


I completely disagree with EVERYTHING you said in this entire post, just for the record. I'm not going to pick apart each point you made, just know that EVERYTHING in that post, I think is utterly banal.

Edit - Sony has low-end electronics eh? lol, now THAT'S gonna provide ME with a great deal of laughter for the next ten years.

[Retsudo]

First party all the way.....but, the DC pad sucks for fighting games, and I cant find a good one to play SF or Soul Calibur with. Any suggestions? I picked up that DC fighting pad by Interact for 87 cents at EB, and its still not that great.

[bargora]

Third party is always better than first party when the third party controller is a joystick and the first party controller is a pad. Pad controllers, whether first or third party, rarely warrant a purchase unless you plan on using it for parts.
Etc...etc..etc...


I completely disagree with EVERYTHING you said in this entire post, just for the record. I'm not going to pick apart each point you made, just know that EVERYTHING in that post, I think is utterly banal.
*prepares to hurl firebomb*

(1) D-cross or D-pad vs. joysticks
Sylentwulf, the D-cross was pioneered for handheld systems, and kingpong and I obviously view the cross/pad as a poor substitute for the stick. While my impulse is to say something incendiary like "you are completely wrong, doodyhead", I'll stick with the less flambent "you are entitled to your preference for inferior controls". Wait. "what I feel are inferior controls." Yeah, that's what I meant.

When's the last time you saw a control pad on an arcade cabinet?

The pain of weeding the good joysticks from the crap is clearly the weak point of this argument, but I would ask "where's the Sony PSX joystick?" At least Nintendo had the good sense to produce the durable Advantage sticks for NES and SNES.

(2) PSX/PS2 first-party vs. third-party
I admit that the PSX/PS2 d-pad isn't that bad if you like to play menu-selection games (oh, the excitement). You know the ones I mean. It's good for selecting DVD options, too. Every time I try to play a good honest action game with the sucker, though, it tears my thumb up. I'd rather wipe my butt with a Chore-Boy scouring towel. If I'm gonna use a D-pad for a PSX game, make mine Madcatz or the silky-smooth Alps.

[Ruudos]

1st party ones.

Except for Atari 2600, those Atari joysticks we got were crappy and not durable. The 3rd party joysticks were much better.

[123forever]

I forgot to mention, the first party Saturn pad is a serious peice of crap. They rectified this somewhat with the 3D Nights controller, put the standard pad gets my vote for the worst 1st party controller (post '80s).

[bargora]

It's funny that you hate the Saturn pad, 123forever, because it's my favorite 1st party pad (as long as you're referring to the version 2, japanese-style one).

[omnedon]

I'd rather wipe my butt with a Chore-Boy scouring towel.
LOL

Above poster mentioned Atari 2600. Good example of fine 3rd party sticks -the WICO BOSS for the Atari 2600. Rock solid, strong spring, made of durable materials, and feels nice and heavy.

http://www.4jays.com/J7.JPG
first from the left, grey in colour

My point being, there are third party exceptions to the rule for quality. Meaning, hi quality third party stuff is the exception, and definitely not the rule.

[Sylentwulf]

WICO Made a damn fine controller, I will admit that. And obviously first party 5200 controllers were crap. Frankly I think the dreamcast controllers sucked HORRIBLY, they FELT like third party controllers! But everytime I bash that stupid system 300 people jump down my throat, so I didn't mention it.

So there are 2-3 examples of third party controllers. However, neither Bargora or Moronpong up there mentioned these, so I think my point still stands :)

[wberdan]

Third party is always better than first party when the third party controller is a joystick and the first party controller is a pad. Pad controllers, whether first or third party, rarely warrant a purchase unless you plan on using it for parts.
Etc...etc..etc...


I completely disagree with EVERYTHING you said in this entire post, just for the record. I'm not going to pick apart each point you made, just know that EVERYTHING in that post, I think is utterly banal.

Edit - Sony has low-end electronics eh? lol, now THAT'S gonna provide ME with a great deal of laughter for the next ten years.


i agree with sylentwulf...


as for the sony comment, obviously youve been getting a laugh at the junk sony puts in stores at low price points... who doesnt make shit equipment at those prices? sony items parts quality is equivelent to almost all department store electronics manufacturers.
if you spend the extra money, youll see that sony has more to offer.

willie

[kingpong]

It is hard to imagine any GC controller being worse than the first party one.

Are you mad? GC pad is one of the best ergonomic pads ever. You must have hands the size of your namesake or something (ergo just about right for Xbox normal pad which IS truly bad... S one is perfect however)...

I have what I believe are normal sized hands, and I think that the normal Xbox pad is one of the few that is actually large enough for adults to use. The GC pad is a neat design, albeit ill suited for a number of genres, but simply too small. Somewhat understandable though, given Nintendo's typically younger demographics.

[ashbourn]

Almost all 3rd party controllers are worse then the 1st party. The only system that had a better 3rd is genesis before the sega 6 button.

[kingpong]

as for the sony comment, obviously youve been getting a laugh at the junk sony puts in stores at low price points... who doesnt make shit equipment at those prices? sony items parts quality is equivelent to almost all department store electronics manufacturers.
if you spend the extra money, youll see that sony has more to offer.


That is largely true. My parents and grandparents both have Wegas, and I have no problems with those. Sony's lower end stuff, the personal electronics sort of things, seem to have a reputation for being of lower quality than competing products, especially considering that you might expect Sony to have better products. Their game systems surely have a high failure/defect rate that was unheard of before their release. So while their higher end products may be OK, their products towards the gaming end of the price spectrum don't measure up to the competition.

[wberdan]

as for the sony comment, obviously youve been getting a laugh at the junk sony puts in stores at low price points... who doesnt make shit equipment at those prices? sony items parts quality is equivelent to almost all department store electronics manufacturers.
if you spend the extra money, youll see that sony has more to offer.


That is largely true. My parents and grandparents both have Wegas, and I have no problems with those. Sony's lower end stuff, the personal electronics sort of things, seem to have a reputation for being of lower quality than competing products, especially considering that you might expect Sony to have better products. Their game systems surely have a high failure/defect rate that was unheard of before their release. So while their higher end products may be OK, their products towards the gaming end of the price spectrum don't measure up to the competition.

i agree.

sonys playstation 2 has the worst build quality of any system i have ever seen. although i think the controllers fair well, the parts quality of the PS2 is JUNK.

willie

[Sylentwulf]

I can also agree that the original playstation and the PS2 hardware-wise is pretty cheap, but I think the controllers are the heaviest(heavy-dutywise) sturdiest, most well put together controllers that I've ever had the privelage to put my hands on.

[josekortez]

I must say I've never had a hot topic before, so I appreciate the feedback...

<josekortez basks for a moment>

In relation to my original post, the Superpad 64 doesn't feel that much different than the original controller. The stick is tighter, which finally allowed me to win a few of the later races in F-Zero X for once, but the handles are too short on the sides. It works. That's all I care about.

I will admit that a lot of companies (Naki, Nyko, and some Interact stuff) make crap, but I want to remind you guys that whenever you use a Worm Light or Afterburner for your Game Boy, if you have one, it ain't Nintendo that's lighting up your game...unless you have an SP, then just forget about my last point.

And Sony's pads aren't infallible, as evidenced by the dead Dual Shock 2 that I got when I bought my used system from a guy I used to work with. When I shake it, I can here a rattle on the connection.

Why is it still here? I don't know.

To spice this topic up, has anyone here ever knowingly traded in or sold a dead controller or accessory? My conscience is probably why this Dual Shock 2 is still mocking me...

[Sylentwulf]

I don't have a problem with third party ACCESSORIES like lights, dance pads, vibrators, ..... uh.... mmmm... vibrators.... where was I? Oh, right... I like Pelican as far as accessories, and I HATE MadCatz (just for the Z at the end, nevermind the fact they all suck.)

[wberdan]

I can also agree that the original playstation and the PS2 hardware-wise is pretty cheap, but I think the controllers are the heaviest(heavy-dutywise) sturdiest, most well put together controllers that I've ever had the privelage to put my hands on.

right, they do stand up pretty well, but i like the sturdiness of the gamecube and xbox ones just slightly more.. although the ps2 is my favorite of those three.
i smashed the gamecube controller very hard into my table three times today in a fit of rage and it just got a couple scuffs. ive damaged my ps2 one the same way.. (and the ps2 one doesnt handle being smashed off the floor too welll- havnt tested the GC there yet)

i agree that madcatz sucks. i broke the xbox mad catz analog joystick after 5 minutes and that was without any form of rough play.


willie

[123forever]

To spice this topic up, has anyone here ever knowingly traded in or sold a dead controller or accessory?


Well... I used to work at a game store. We wouldn't sell 3rd party controllers for next gen systems, it was the store policy that they were garbage. We wouldn't give any credit for them in trade-ins, but occasionally people who were unloading their stuff would tell us to just keep them anyways. Every now and then, an employee of ours would go to the competition with a pile of busted games and 3rd party junk, and trade it in for good stuff to sell at our store. Shady, I know.

I remembered another 3rd party pad I have some fondness for, the Nyko Viper for PSX. It's kind of junky, the left analog stick on mine crapped out pretty quickly, it registers any movement down or to the right as being slight (tiptoeing speed in Ape Escape) no matter how far it's pushed. But I do appreciate its "digital/analog" mode, which allows you to use the sticks on older games that have no analog support. Makes Robotron play a lot better, for one example.

[Mayhem]

I have what I believe are normal sized hands, and I think that the normal Xbox pad is one of the few that is actually large enough for adults to use. The GC pad is a neat design, albeit ill suited for a number of genres, but simply too small. Somewhat understandable though, given Nintendo's typically younger demographics.

Or given that Nintendo are a Japanese company where the general populace is smaller on average than the American populace...

Least M$ had the sense to release a smaller version of their controller for Japan. Nobody I know with an Xbox (and yes they're all over 25 and definitely adults) likes the normal controller, they all have the smaller S version. Like myself, they found it cramped their hands after a few minutes use. I've heard no complaints from the GC owners about the size of the pad... merely as you also said, the positioning of the buttons for certain genres.

The GC just moulds into your hand perfectly... the Xbox one (even the S version) just looks like a lump of plastic with buttons on it...

[zmeston]

My own rule of thumb when it comes to peripherals is simple: you get what you pay for. "Affordable" peripherals, almost without exception, are cranked out by the same dubious group of Asian manufacturers and distributors that produce X-rated novelty items and WWE action figures.

I review peripherals for a magazine called PSE2, so I get to evaluate a lot of stuff, and almost all of it is utter crap. I've spent a dozen hours each with at least a dozen PS2 pads, and I always go back to the Dual Shock 2 (except when I'm required to use the Logitech wireless in the living room).

During my days at Working Designs, I learned to hate two peripherals in particular: Game Sharks and third-party memory cards. You wouldn't believe how many customer-service calls we received from people who'd corrupted their saves with Shark-related antics, or lost their saves to corrupted cards.

And as I found out during my supervision of the infamous Ghaleon punching puppet, it's REALLY hard to get Asian toy manufacturers to shoot for quality. It took about a year (!) of back and forth with several companies to get a GPP prototype that met our criteria.

-- Z.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

I'm kinda fond of my new PS1 arcade...well, it's not really a joystick...
http://www.thelogbook.com/images/psxstick.jpg
That's no joystick! It's a space station!

I love arcade-style controllers like this, have have a couple of single-player Blaze sticks as well (the Pro Shock and the Pro Shock Lite). My ONE GRIPE with these is the loose disc at the base of the stick. Would it really have cost them a mint to create a "slot" just below the top surface of these controllers to house that disc? I realize it's there to keep dust and other crap from getting into the joystick's inner workings, so I don't want to remove it altogether, but it drives me nuts sometimes to have that disc just wiggling around beneath my hand. That's the one thing standing between myself and arcade nirvana here. It's a common feature of both the monster above (which has carried me to new heights of Crazy Climber heaven, by the way) and the Blaze joysticks.

Any suggestions?

[Ruudos]

For Atari 2600 we bought 'The Arcade Joystick' or something like that. Even made in Holland, but good, solid joysticks and they were popular too. I know people that had a C64 and also had these joysticks.

[Six Switch]

I always just pay the few extra bucks for a 1st party one, but that's just me.

-=Mr. NEStalgia=-

I agree,first party ones are almost,if not always,better.Same goes for memory cards too. 8-)

[zmeston]

Earlier in the thread, I mentioned all the Asian peripheral manufacturers at E3. I just received an email invitation from one such manufacturer to visit their booth at E3:

Hi Zach san

At first, I will apologize that I am sending mail from E3 media list.
And I have to apologize that I send 2 type of mail, one is the attached and another is not attached.

We are the newest Exhibitor in E3-Trade Show.

Our Product name is AirStyle , which is the PS2 wireless Game Controller with the newest RF technology.

I believe that End User will be satisfied and will be free form Cable finally.

Please check this product and try this in E3 Trade show.

FounTech Booth is the Kentia Hall #6409.

And I expect the your professional comments and review in E3.

AirStyle is designed by Japanese Engineer, and manufactured in the Cordless Telephone Plant
and managed with the same Quality Control.

*If you are interested in this newest product,
please visit our Web site at first, and visit our US test sales partner.

AirStyle web: www.fountech.com
Test sales partner: www.hyper-cafe.com

I am sorry for disturbing you.

regard
Kohashi/ Chief Designer

-- Z.