Will "digital distibution" take hold?

[neogamer]

I honestly haven't had time to search the previous threads to see if this issue has come up before, but does anyone here think we will soon enter into an age of complete "digital distribution" of games? Meaning that, you will not go to your nearest video game store for the latest game, instead you will download it from your home, thus killing off the future of video game collecting.

One of the reasons I do not like downloading games from Xbox, Sony, or even Nintendo, is because of this. I believe if this market grows, so do the risks. Any thoughts on this matter.

I can only say this: from my experience in the financial world, analysts are split on this.

What do you think?

If you own an I-Pod, you already know what I mean!

[Anthony1]

The question isn't will it... it's when will it happen. Unfortunately, it's enevitable. Personally, I will fight it until it's impossible to fight, but it's going to be a locomotive at full speed that's impossible to stop. Still, you bitches that are downloading gamer pics and themes and shit aren't helping anythng.

[GameDeals.ca]

Everytime you download a game, a game store dies.

The publishers are really pushing for digital distribution, but the market is determined by our dollars, so buy real physical games (where you actually own it and have the ability to collect/resell/etc.) as opposed to digital games (where you're "leasing" the right to play it... on their terms).

We can stop this, but not as long as people keep buying shit digitally.

[Rob2600]

you will not go to your nearest video game store for the latest game, instead you will download it from your home, thus killing off the future of video game collecting.

As much as I prefer buying CDs, books, and DVDs instead of buying and downloading files, I know that digital distribution would be far better for our environment. Isn't that more important than your video game collection?

Think about all of the video game cartridges, CDs, DVD, audio cassette tapes, vinyl records, boxes, cases, sleeves, instruction manuals, warranty cards, and plastic shrink-wrap that have been thrown in the garbage over the past few decades. Consumers have been and still are frighteningly irresponsible and imprudent.

Digital distribution would result in far less post-consumer waste and less waste from manufacturing too, since there'd be nothing to manufacture (no plastic cases, no plastic discs, no paper instruction manuals, etc.).

Besides, by downloading games, movies, and music in our homes, we wouldn't have to leave the house and drive to the store. That means we'd waste a little bit less fuel and create less car exhaust, too.

How is digital distribution bad?

[Rob2600]

Everytime you download a game, a game store dies.

So what? The majority of video game store employees don't care much about their jobs or their customers anyway. I did, but I was in the minority.

As I posted above, digital distribution would result in less waste and pollution. In addition, without the overhead involved in operating stores, the prices of games could possibly decrease.

[heybtbm]

This topic has been discussed here many times and the answer is this:

Walmart, Target, Best Buy etc. will never allow it. Unless they can find a way to get their hands in the pot. Until then, remember that major retailers run the show...not Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft. Retailers tell the game companies what to do, not the other way around. People tend to forget that fact.

[Anthony1]

This topic has been discussed here many times and the answer is this:

Walmart, Target, Best Buy etc. will never allow it. Unless they can find a way to get their hands in the pot. Until then, remember that major retailers run the show...not Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft. Retailers tell the game companies what to do, not the other way around. People tend to forget that fact.


Just like Walmart, Target, Best Buy didn't allow Ipods or iTunes. Sorry, but the retailers will eventually have to deal with this, and it isn't like this is going to happen overnite. It will be a slow burn. A 20 year process. Eventually, we won't actually buy gaming hardware, we will lease it. It will come bundled with our cable TV and Satellite TV services. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will make deals with AT & T and Comcast and Cox. So you will no longer need Walmart , Target or Best Buy to sell the hardware and accessories.

Sorry bro. Digital Downloads are the unavoidable future. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of when. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony will be careful not to totally pissoff the retailers until the last possible second. So they will tread those waters gingerly, until the time is right.

Now, having said all of that, I think it's up to us as consumers to vote with our wallets and totally avoid buying anything digital as long as we possibly can. We can't stop the enevitable, but we can prolong it's arrival date. I have yet to buy a SINGLE DIGITAL DOWNLOAD. So I'm part of the solution... are you part of the problem?

[neogamer]

As much as I prefer buying CDs, books, and DVDs instead of buying and downloading files, I know that digital distribution would be far better for our environment. Isn't that more important than your video game collection?

Think about all of the video game cartridges, CDs, DVD, audio cassette tapes, vinyl records, boxes, cases, sleeves, instruction manuals, warranty cards, and plastic shrink-wrap that have been thrown in the garbage over the past few decades. Consumers have been and still are frighteningly irresponsible and imprudent.

Digital distribution would result in far less post-consumer waste and less waste from manufacturing too, since there'd be nothing to manufacture (no plastic cases, no plastic discs, no paper instruction manuals, etc.).

Besides, by downloading games, movies, and music in our homes, we wouldn't have to leave the house and drive to the store. That means we'd waste a little bit less fuel and create less car exhaust, too.

How is digital distribution bad?

Your looking at it from an environmental standpoint! By that logic comic books should be digitalized as well. Heck, anime (takes paper and other resources to produce) should be dead and we should completely kill off movie theaters as well because, heaven forbid you have to drive there. Wait a minute, shouldn't we just kill off cars as well?

This is a liberal ideology and is not practical in our materialistic world!

This list would go on and on.....amazing how you think!

[neogamer]

So what? The majority of video game store employees don't care much about their jobs or their customers anyway. I did, but I was in the minority.

As I posted above, digital distribution would result in less waste and pollution. In addition, without the overhead involved in operating stores, the prices of games could possibly decrease.

So would the destruction of the internet, these forums, and capitalism as well. Heck, why not just let the ideologies of Osama Bin Laden over run us as well!

Isn't your thinking a little pointless?

[deaditeash2]

I'll never pay to lease content for media I can't physically hold in my hands! Since I mostly live in the past (entertainment wise) anyways I don't see this as a concern :) They don't make (blank) like they use to...

[neogamer]

Just like Walmart, Target, Best Buy didn't allow Ipods or iTunes. Sorry, but the retailers will eventually have to deal with this, and it isn't like this is going to happen overnite. It will be a slow burn. A 20 year process. Eventually, we won't actually buy gaming hardware, we will lease it. It will come bundled with our cable TV and Satellite TV services. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will make deals with AT & T and Comcast and Cox. So you will no longer need Walmart , Target or Best Buy to sell the hardware and accessories.

Sorry bro. Digital Downloads are the unavoidable future. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of when. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony will be careful not to totally pissoff the retailers until the last possible second. So they will tread those waters gingerly, until the time is right.

Now, having said all of that, I think it's up to us as consumers to vote with our wallets and totally avoid buying anything digital as long as we possibly can. We can stop the enevitable, but we can prolong it's arrival date. I have yet to buy a SINGLE DIGITAL DOWNLOAD. So I'm part of the solution... are you part of the problem?

I agree with these points completely, though. In capitalism the consumers control the markets-we vote with our wallets. Don't ever forget that!

[heybtbm]

Now, having said all of that, I think it's up to us as consumers to vote with our wallets and totally avoid buying anything digital as long as we possibly can. We can stop the enevitable, but we can prolong it's arrival date. I have yet to buy a SINGLE DIGITAL DOWNLOAD. So I'm part of the solution... are you part of the problem?

"Part of the problem"...c'mon. I don't even think you believe that 100%

I'd much rather have fun with the occasional XBLA or Wii VC game rather than staring at my games, wringing my hands in fear of when they'll be extinct.

[heybtbm]

Isn't your thinking a little pointless?

"Thinking" is never pointless.

[Rob2600]

Your looking at it from an environmental standpoint!

Of course I am. Is there anything more important than our bodies and our environment?


By that logic comic books should be digitalized as well. Heck, anime (takes paper and other resources to produce) should be dead and we should completely kill off movie theaters as well because, heaven forbid you have to drive there. Wait a minute, shouldn't we just kill off cars as well?

I realize that eliminating all post-consumer waste is unrealistic. I wrote that digital distribution would help reduce waste, not eliminate it. Digital distribution is easy and practical, so why resist?


This is a liberal ideology and is not practical in our materialistic world!

Your right that our society is materialistic. Again, I wrote that consumers have been and still are frighteningly irresponsible and imprudent. Digital distribution is a step in the right direction.

In fact, digital distribution is so easy and logical, I'd feel stupid not doing it.

[neogamer]

"Thinking" is never pointless.

The problem is:

He didn't think, otherwise he would not of written a statement like that!

Are you going to tell me that we should stop producing toys because as of this writing, 80% of their packaging ends up as waste?

Come on.

[neogamer]

I realize that eliminating all post-consumer waste is unrealistic. I wrote that digital distribution would help reduce waste, not eliminate it. Digital distribution is easy and practical, so why resist?



Your right that our society is materialistic. Again, I wrote that consumers have been and still are frighteningly irresponsible and imprudent. Digital distribution is a step in the right direction.

In fact, digital distribution is so easy and logical, I'd feel stupid not doing it.

Then do it! But I have a right to collect "solid" games and I will do use, regardless of the environmental impact!

I do whatever I can to promote the hobby of collecting classic and modern video games. Is that wrong? What is difference between collecting them and collecting toys. Both produce equal amounts of waste.

[Rob2600]

I'll never pay to lease content for media I can't physically hold in my hands!

I hope you remember that every time you pay $10 to watch a movie in a theater.

[Rob2600]

I do whatever I can to promote the hobby of collecting classic and modern video games. Is that wrong? What is difference between collecting them and collecting toys. Both produce equal amounts of waste.

You're right, both video games and toys produce waste. However, digitally distributing video games, music, and movies is easy and practical. Digitally distributing toys is not. Again, I'm not saying we should eliminate all waste, but if there's an easy way to help reduce it, then why not?

I've made my point and am not taking your bait anymore.

[neogamer]

I hope you remember that every time you pay $10 to watch a movie in a theater.


Now, this is a good point and one worth noting!

[neogamer]

You're right, both video games and toys produce waste. However, digitally distributing video games, music, and movies is easy and practical. Digitally distributing toys is not. Again, I'm not saying we should eliminate all waste, but if there's an easy way to help reduce it, then why not?

I've made my point and am not taking your bait anymore.

If your not taking my bait, why did you end your point with a question?

All I am saying is why should we sacrifice a hobby we are here to promote?

Question point noted!

[otaku]

digital distribution has a place imo. For demos, videos and new content to be added to already released games but I still want hard copies. I like the wii's virtual console but I'd love to have the physical games even more especially considering nintendo doesn't let you move the games to new wii's very easily if at all

Something great about shopping for and owning/collecting games that I think digi distribution is a ways off though probably inevitable but I don't think the real thing will ever die off

[Jorpho]

Here we go.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20984

An old thread, but I stand by my opinion:
Perhaps by 2033 everything will be sorted out, and only the most necessary of barriers will exist between consumers and the content they think they desire.

But 2013? No, there will still be plenty of people then to whom the easiest sell will be a pretty box on a shelf.

[Ponyone]

Digital distribution would result in far less post-consumer waste and less waste from manufacturing too, since there'd be nothing to manufacture (no plastic cases, no plastic discs, no paper instruction manuals, etc.).

How is digital distribution bad?


The environment, which you so nobly serve, comes from destruction, disorder and chaos. Take this Metroid VC download. Here it is, peaceful, serene and boring. But if it is... manufactured in a factory...look at all these people. So busy now. Notice how each one is useful. What a lovely ballet ensues so full of form and color. Now, think about all those people. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people who'll be able to feed their children tonight so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny weeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain... of life.

You see, Rob2600, by creating a little nintendo cartridge, we're actually encouraging life. In reality, you and I are in the same business. Cheers.

[TurboGenesis]

It is simple to see where we are heading. Look at things like on demand cable, Ipod, XBLA/PSN/VC…

Then look at places like…Blockbuster video and their stock value.

Sure it is not cool to have hold of "physical" item, but for the developers and more important, the shareholders of media companies, it is the most profitable medium to move to. Compact disc was a gold mine for everyone and now there is actually something that can realize more profit for the corporations.

Look at the success of Apple Computer. Look at how many music sales stores have gone under. Look at what is happen to video rental business.

Digital download distribution is the ultimate in American society. It is profitable for the corporations, and is convenient, and easy for lazy consumer. With a few presses of a button consumer can watch a new movie, hear a new song, or play a new game with out lifting ass off of couch and corporation can net major profit with out any overhead or manufacturing costs.

Its a "win" for all…

[GameDeals.ca]

Digital download distribution is the ultimate in American society. It is profitable for the corporations, and is convenient, and easy for lazy consumer. With a few presses of a button consumer can watch a new movie, hear a new song, or play a new game with out lifting ass off of couch and corporation can net major profit with out any overhead or manufacturing costs.

Its a "win" for all…

Except of course the people who own retail stores, and the people they employ.

[Rob2600]

if it is... manufactured in a factory...look at all these people. So busy now. Notice how each one is useful. What a lovely ballet ensues so full of form and color. Now, think about all those people. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people who'll be able to feed their children tonight so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny weeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain... of life.

In the long run, our environment is more important than a factory's worth of jobs. Jobs come and go and industries evolve. Two decades ago, graphic design was done by hand. Now, it's all digital. If companies and employees didn't evolve and adapt to the new technology, they went out of business. That's how progress is made.

The "job" excuse is weak and should never impede progress, especially if the progress will help protect our environment...you know, the thing we all live in. :)


It is simple to see where we are heading. Look at things like on demand cable, Ipod, XBLA/PSN/VC…

Then look at places like…Blockbuster video and their stock value.

Look at the success of Apple Computer. Look at how many music sales stores have gone under. Look at what is happen to video rental business.

Digital download distribution is the ultimate in American society. It is profitable for the corporations, and is convenient, and easy for lazy consumer. With a few presses of a button consumer can watch a new movie, hear a new song, or play a new game with out lifting ass off of couch and corporation can net major profit with out any overhead or manufacturing costs.

Its a "win" for all…

I agree.

[Ponyone]

In the long run, our environment is more important than a factory's worth of jobs. Jobs come and go and industries evolve. Two decades ago, graphic design was done by hand. Now, it's all digital. If companies and employees didn't evolve and adapt to the new technology, they went out of business. That's how progress is made.

The "job" excuse is weak and should never impede progress, especially if the progress will help protect our environment...you know, the thing we all live in. :)




There, you see how all my so-called wit counts for absolutely nothing? How my entire empire of humor comes... crashing down. All because of one little... robby.

[Rob2600]

There, you see how all my so-called wit counts for absolutely nothing? How my entire empire of humor comes... crashing down. All because of one little... robby.

I apologize for hurting your feelings. That wasn't my intention. Friends? :)

[YoshiM]

Everytime you download a game, a game store dies.
With that mentality "Every time you buy a console game another arcade dies". Or "Every time you buy an LCD TV a CRT factory closes up". Or "Every time you buy a book from Amazon.com, another book store closes". To what degree does this path of thinking continue? "Every time a game store sells a game, an eBay seller loses a sale"? "Every time you buy a game from Wal-Mart/Target/ShopKo/etc., a game store dies"?

What you're saying is the similar to what others have said when something new came that could/would/did make something else obsolete. It was heard when robots, hell, any sort of automation was introduced to factories that could/would cut the workforce down. I remember reading out small indie stores that sold music or books complaining that they'd have to close up shop when Amazon started business. I'm sure movie rental stores quaked in their boots when sites like Net Flix came about. Years back I bet smaller retail stores had issues with Sears Roebuck when their catalog came out. Now people can buy almost anything without leaving their house and going to a store.

It's business evolution. Digital downloads is the next step. As broadband becomes more available and content providers are offering up more and more stuff on demand, downloading is going to be more prevalent. While it will hinder stores it will open up less expensive avenues for indie developers to sell their wares without having to spend a ton of money on marketing and merchandising along with trying to acquire shelf space next to the "big guns".

[diskoboy]

Yes and no....

Yes, because it's more convienent, and sometimes (but it's rare) the games are cheaper.

No because if you're like me, you always want a physical copy of said game.

[FantasiaWHT]

Going to have to say no. People made the same claims about books when the internet came out - you'll be able to download entire books and read them forever without any fear of books wearing out or running out of space to hold your books.

Books are still around, while e-books exist, they have never caught on as a major trend. Downloading full retail video games has been around for a while and it's still pretty limited. While downloading music has definitely exploded, there are two things that count against the trend spreading to video games.

1) Music is cheap. If we ever reach a point where a game is $1, then yes, people may pay to download video games on a massive scale.

2) Music is segmentable. In reality, individual song downloads are replacing purchases of entire CDs of music. You can't download a section of a video game. Some effort is being made with this in things like downloadable (for pay) content, microtransactions, etc., but despite all the hype for that, downloads for full games dominates microtransactions.

Lastly, I don't think the current trend toward downloading songs has made or ever will make the sale of physical media obsolete. There will always be people who want the physical product in their hand; they want the liner notes, the prestige of showing off an album, etc.

[Rob2600]

Going to have to say no. ... Books are still around, while e-books exist, they have never caught on as a major trend. Downloading full retail video games has been around for a while and it's still pretty limited. While downloading music has definitely exploded, there are two things that count against the trend spreading to video games.

1) Music is cheap. If we ever reach a point where a game is $1, then yes, people may pay to download video games on a massive scale.

Nintendo's Virtual Console has already proven to be a success. According to Wikipedia's "Virtual Console" entry:

"On June 1, 2007, Nintendo of America issued a press release to announce the upcoming release of its 100th Virtual Console title, which was Zelda II: the Adventure of Link. Within this press release, Nintendo stated that more than 4.7 million Virtual Console games had been downloaded, at a rate of more than 1,000 titles an hour."

These are full games, not individual levels, and cost between $5 to $10...not quite as expensive as $20 to $70 disc-based games, but not quite as inexpensive as $1 MP3 files, either. I admit it isn't quite "massive scale" yet, but it's a step in the right direction. Transitions like this are slow.

As I posted earlier, digitally distributing video games could result in lower prices because less overhead is involved (in particular, the cost of operating a retail store and the cost of shipping games to the store). While we may never see new releases debuting for $1, we could see prices in the $20 to $35 range.

Regarding books, you're right. Many people still buy books, magazines, and newspapers, but many people get their news and information from web sites like cnn.com, nytimes.com, and yahoo.com instead. Again, transitions like this are slow. Books have been mainstream for over 100 years. Internet access has been mainstream for about ten.

[cyberfluxor]

I believe Guildwars and many other on-line games have a good setup right now. You can go to the store and buy a retail copy or buy it online and setup an account. As new expansions are released you can also go retail or order online, which really upgrades your account. The new areas are opened and you can bring your character between realms/areas. When GW2 is released you can simply upgrade it on your account and they are supposed to be making original GW characters compatible to GW2. I guess this idea is also applied in many other implementations everywhere, just it hasn't become dominate yet.

[FantasiaWHT]

Nintendo's Virtual Console has already proven to be a success. According to Wikipedia's "Virtual Console" entry:

"On June 1, 2007, Nintendo of America issued a press release to announce the upcoming release of its 100th Virtual Console title, which was Zelda II: the Adventure of Link. Within this press release, Nintendo stated that more than 4.7 million Virtual Console games had been downloaded, at a rate of more than 1,000 titles an hour."

Cool! I hadn't seen numbers before, it's good to have them. I'm curious how Nintendo would define the success of the VC, though. As far as profit, we'd have to know how much money was spent on converting games by Nintendo, and how much of each game sale from TG and Genesis goes to Nintendo. 4.7 million is also less than one VC game for every 2 Wii's sold. I'd be interested in comparing that to how many full-fledged games were paid for on XBLA per unit sold.



These are full games, not individual levels, and cost between $5 to $10...not quite as expensive as $20 to $70 disc-based games, but not quite as inexpensive as $1 MP3 files, either. I admit it isn't quite "massive scale" yet, but it's a step in the right direction. Transitions like this are slow.

As I posted earlier, digitally distributing video games could result in lower prices because less overhead is involved (in particular, the cost of operating a retail store and the cost of shipping games to the store). While we may never see new releases debuting for $1, we could see prices in the $20 to $35 range.

Yeah, that's a big difference there too. Oldies songs aren't sold for 1/10th the price of a modern top 40 hit. It's hard to make a good prediction with so many differences.

I definitely agree that digital distribution will help keep overall prices down if digital distribution of new, full retail games becomes even a minor presence (it might be affecting computer game prices already).

[neogamer]

Here we go.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20984

An old thread, but I stand by my opinion:


If this is an old thread subject forgive me. It is definately worth exploring though.

[Neil Koch]

Cool! I hadn't seen numbers before, it's good to have them. I'm curious how Nintendo would define the success of the VC, though. As far as profit, we'd have to know how much money was spent on converting games by Nintendo, and how much of each game sale from TG and Genesis goes to Nintendo.


The cost of "converting" the games is next to zero - they're just allowing you to download ROMs. I love the VC service (especially for TG16 stuff) but they really are price gouging.

The PS2 Sega Genesis Collection has 28 Genesis games -- many of them AAA titles -- plus 5 arcade games, as well as little extras like pictures of the box art, codes, and interviews with programmers/designers, all for $20. That same $20 on the VC will get you 2 games and 400 "points" which will do you no good unless you spend even more money.

IMO, if they took down the prices on the VC games, they would sell a hell of a lot more of them. Right now most Wii owners are only downloading a handful of VC games, because the (relatively) high prices are keeping them from spending their Wii points on games other than the ones they know.

The matter is getting compounded because now the first generation of software is dropping down in price, and as there becomes a bigger pool of cheap "real" games to choose from, it's going to be harder to convince people to pay $5-10 for VC titles.

[GameDeals.ca]

With that mentality "Every time you buy a console game another arcade dies". Or "Every time you buy an LCD TV a CRT factory closes up". Or "Every time you buy a book from Amazon.com, another book store closes". To what degree does this path of thinking continue? "Every time a game store sells a game, an eBay seller loses a sale"? "Every time you buy a game from Wal-Mart/Target/ShopKo/etc., a game store dies"?

What you're saying is the similar to what others have said when something new came that could/would/did make something else obsolete. It was heard when robots, hell, any sort of automation was introduced to factories that could/would cut the workforce down. I remember reading out small indie stores that sold music or books complaining that they'd have to close up shop when Amazon started business. I'm sure movie rental stores quaked in their boots when sites like Net Flix came about. Years back I bet smaller retail stores had issues with Sears Roebuck when their catalog came out. Now people can buy almost anything without leaving their house and going to a store.

It's business evolution. Digital downloads is the next step. As broadband becomes more available and content providers are offering up more and more stuff on demand, downloading is going to be more prevalent. While it will hinder stores it will open up less expensive avenues for indie developers to sell their wares without having to spend a ton of money on marketing and merchandising along with trying to acquire shelf space next to the "big guns".

I'm sorry, that quote was meant as humor, just like the "every time you masterbate a kitten dies" thing.

I'm well aware of the changing market, and while I don't like it, I have accepted that it's coming and am adjusting my business model accordingly. It's a shame that the days of publisher & retailer walking hand in hand are over, and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. As stated, the customer speaks with their wallet.

[AMG]

I honestly haven't had time to search the previous threads to see if this issue has come up before, but does anyone here think we will soon enter into an age of complete "digital distribution" of games? Meaning that, you will not go to your nearest video game store for the latest game, instead you will download it from your home, thus killing off the future of video game collecting.

One of the reasons I do not like downloading games from Xbox, Sony, or even Nintendo, is because of this. I believe if this market grows, so do the risks. Any thoughts on this matter.

I can only say this: from my experience in the financial world, analysts are split on this.

What do you think?

If you own an I-Pod, you already know what I mean!


If the days comes where you buy a console and have to download every single game to play on it, then I'm out of that generation. I want no part of it.

[neogamer]

If the days comes where you buy a console and have to download every single game to play on it, then I'm out of that generation. I want no part of it.

I agree with you 100%! When that day comes, I'm done and that is the honest to God's truth! I am a collector, so as a collector, I want something "real" to collect!

I don't call up friends and ask them to show me what they have on their I-Pod! I don't go to garage sales, or even eBay, and try to buy discounted downloaded songs....LOL

come on, part of this hobby, for some (not all) is about collecting!

[Griking]

I honestly haven't had time to search the previous threads to see if this issue has come up before, but does anyone here think we will soon enter into an age of complete "digital distribution" of games? Meaning that, you will not go to your nearest video game store for the latest game, instead you will download it from your home, thus killing off the future of video game collecting.

One of the reasons I do not like downloading games from Xbox, Sony, or even Nintendo, is because of this. I believe if this market grows, so do the risks. Any thoughts on this matter.

I can only say this: from my experience in the financial world, analysts are split on this.

What do you think?

I'm torn. On one hand I prefer to own a physical copy of all of my games. On the other hand digital distribution may finally be the Gamestop killer that I've been waiting for.

[kaedesdisciple]

To be honest, I see it as moving toward where the movie industry is going/is at right now. You will still be able to "own" the physical media that holds a copy of the software, but that will come at a premium. This option will appeal to people who need to collect and "own" the media as well as those who have not yet embraced the Internet or have no ready access to broadband; yes they do exist. There is still a huge psychological tie to holding the media in your hand, and it shouldn't be ignored just yet. The ability to download and simply play the same software (however DRM'ed to death) will also be available, but it will be cheaper. I can see the latter option being very popular among casuals and people with not a whole lot of bank and space.

The market may continue to sway one way or another, but I can see both co-existing for a while.

[Hwj_Chim]

The day that it is digital download only is the day I stop buying video games.

[Oobgarm]

I'm torn. On one hand I prefer to own a physical copy of all of my games. On the other hand digital distribution may finally be the Gamestop killer that I've been waiting for.

They won't die, they'll be distributors. Hell, they're selling 'e-guides' now for games whose strat guide has gone out of print.

[neogamer]

They won't die, they'll be distributors. Hell, they're selling 'e-guides' now for games whose strat guide has gone out of print.

So you need the death of a hobby (collecting) to kill off a chain store that you don't like?

Are you serious? That is extremely cynical.

[YoshiM]

I'm sorry, that quote was meant as humor, just like the "every time you masterbate a kitten dies" thing.
There must not be enough of that going on-the pet population is still outta control :D .

I kinda figured it was intended for humor but you also displayed your distaste for digital downloading in another post. The concept still works-how much is method getting hurt while the replacement is getting more interest/money.


I'm well aware of the changing market, and while I don't like it, I have accepted that it's coming and am adjusting my business model accordingly. It's a shame that the days of publisher & retailer walking hand in hand are over, and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. As stated, the customer speaks with their wallet.

I don't think we'll see a complete demise of games on retail shelves for quite some time. While digital downloads makes it easy to snag the latest game, the one thing that lies in favor of having the physical copy is time. It takes a lot of time to download the latest games as they are several hundred megabytes in size. Our instant-gratification society may not have the patience for that. If it takes 3 hours to download Oblivion on PC, for the same price you can drive or hop a bus to the nearest store and buy the same thing in usually less time.

[Rob2600]

the one thing that lies in favor of having the physical copy is time. It takes a lot of time to download the latest games as they are several hundred megabytes in size. Our instant-gratification society may not have the patience for that.

I think that with good file compression schemes, a huge 5 GB game shouldn't take more than two hours to download via cable modem. To some, that might seem like a long time to wait, but it isn't any longer than driving around from store to store trying to find one that isn't sold out of a popular new release, finding parking, driving back home, etc.

Another thought...this might be unlikely, but perhaps someday new games could be designed so that the first level is playable while the rest of the game is downloaded.

[heybtbm]

I think that with good file compression schemes, a huge 5 GB game shouldn't take more than two hours to download via cable modem. To some, that might seem like a long time to wait, but it isn't any longer than driving around from store to store trying to find one that isn't sold out of a popular new release, finding parking, driving back home, etc.

2 hours for 5 GB (lol), you haven't downloaded anything off of XBL or the XBL video service have you? 2 hours...think: 2 days. XBL and PSN are painfully slow. Much slower than any internet service currently.

Besides, only a fraction of US households have cable/dsl internet. Until the internet gets about 100x faster and is available everywhere, you won't see hard copies going away entirely. Obviously at some point in the future the internet will be "broadcast" everywhere and be several Terabytes per second, but until then...

[Rob2600]

2 hours for 5 GB (lol), you haven't downloaded anything off of XBL or the XBL video service have you? 2 hours...think: 2 days.

You're right, I haven't used Xbox Live. Why is it that slow?


Besides, only a fraction of US households have cable/dsl internet. Until the internet gets about 100x faster and is available everywhere, you won't see hard copies going away entirely.

Again, you're right, but we're talking about ten to twenty years from now. Ten years ago, 5 KB/s was pretty fast. Today, 500 KB/s is pretty fast. Ten years from now, internet access could be 5 MB/s, in which case a 20 GB video game could be downloaded in roughly an hour...unless it's on Xbox Live. :)

[YoshiM]

I think that with good file compression schemes, a huge 5 GB game shouldn't take more than two hours to download via cable modem. To some, that might seem like a long time to wait, but it isn't any longer than driving around from store to store trying to find one that isn't sold out of a popular new release, finding parking, driving back home, etc.

Right....if the place you're downloading it from has enough bandwidth. If it's a brand spanking new game, people who like to download will flock to get it.

Besides, has everyone forgot that fingers can do the walking? Pull the phone book, look up a store online and call them to see if they have the title you want. And if you're out and about anyway (coming home from work/school, going shopping for other stuff), the traveling is moot because you're already away from home.


Another thought...this might be unlikely, but perhaps someday new games could be designed so that the first level is playable while the rest of the game is downloaded.

While maybe not exactly, I think that's how Gametap handles larger titles- toss you some of the game and then stream as you play.

[Anthony1]

So far, I have yet to PURCHASE A SINGLE DOWNLOADABLE ITEM! I have Xbox Live, and I have PSN. I had a Wii, but never purchased anything for the virtual console. I've been very tempted to purchase Geometry Wars, Pac-Man Championship Edition and Super Stardust HD, to name a few. But I haven't purchased a single thing. Why?

Mainly, because I hate the fact that if I buy some game off Xbox Live or PSN, I will then have "virtual" ownership of that game. I won't ever be able to sell it to anybody else, or give it to somebody else, or trade it for another game, etc, etc. That just doesn't make any sense to me. When I go to a store and buy a game, I want to have a physical copy of that game, that I can do whatever the hell I want to with that game. I can keep it for eternity, I can sell it on Ebay or Craigslist, I can trade it for another game from a friend, I can give it to somebody for their birthday, etc, etc. With a physical item, you have certain rights as owner of that physical item. When you change to the world of digital downloads, your rights go out the freaking window.

My main issue, is not being able to re-sell the game. I'm the type of guy that normally buys a game used, after it's been out for a couple of months. For example, when I bought Crackdown for the Xbox 360, it was slightly less than 2 months after the game was released. It was about 45 days since the game first launched. I got it for $38 straight up. No tax, no shipping, none of that bullshit. I bought it from a dude locally, via Craigslist. Then I played the game for a number of months, and I recently ended up selling it to somebody else, via Craigslist for $26. So I essentially payed $12 for Crackdown. In the future world of Digital Downloads, a scenario such as this will be completely impossible. Sure, a game like Crackdown, via download, won't cost $59.99 plus tax (at least we better hope it won't), but it sure as hell ain't gonna cost $12. It's going to cost probably $39.99 or $34.99 or something like that. While it's nice that it's going to be a quite a bit less than $59.99, you actually are going to end up paying alot more for the game in reality, cause you can never sell that game or trade it for something else. I just hate this shit. The mere thought of it pisses me off.

[Leo_A]

I'm a gamer, not a collector. Services like Xbox Live Arcade are too much fun to ignore. My only concern is losing content when my console dies and not being able to redownload it years from now, otherwise this transition can't happen fast enough for me.

And downloading big 360 demos on XBL only takes 10-20 minutes for me.

[Griking]

2 hours for 5 GB (lol), you haven't downloaded anything off of XBL or the XBL video service have you? 2 hours...think: 2 days. XBL and PSN are painfully slow. Much slower than any internet service currently.

Besides, only a fraction of US households have cable/dsl internet. Until the internet gets about 100x faster and is available everywhere, you won't see hard copies going away entirely. Obviously at some point in the future the internet will be "broadcast" everywhere and be several Terabytes per second, but until then...

Not to mention that a lot of cable internet operators (Comcast) are trying to weed out what they call bandwidth abusers. They won't put a set number on how much bandwidth you can use before you're considered an abuser but if you're a big time gamer and try to download a new game or two per week that can get you onto the shit list really quickly.

[heybtbm]

Not to mention that a lot of cable internet operators (Comcast) are trying to weed out what they call bandwidth abusers. They won't put a set number on how much bandwidth you can use before you're considered an abuser but if you're a big time gamer and try to download a new game or two per week that can get you onto the shit list really quickly.

A bit OT...

There is no doubt in my mind that the major cable companies are in the process of creating "online gamer packages". They'll run $80-100 per month and be the only way you can have a decent connection to XBL or PSN.

In their mind, online gamers aren't the "average customer" and should therefore pay a premium for the service. This is coming soon.

[FantasiaWHT]

*is really glad his wife gets him business-class cable*

[Xizer]

Digital downloads are silly. That's the whole reason not to pirate, so you have a genuine, physical copy of a game.

If games start coming in digital download only format, you might as well just pirate them. You'll get a better deal: The entire game, free, with no DRM nonsense. You even get to play the game without having to throw the disc into your disc drive.

It's the same deal with music. Why people want to pay 99 cents for an awful quality song on iTunes that is encoded in a lossy format (MP3 or AAC), and has DRM, over buying a CD or getting a FLAC copy with full quality audio is beyond me.

It's too late to stop it now that the cat's out of the bag. When it comes to digital format only, piracy groups always do a better job and release better quality for free than the corporations that want to charge you. The only way they can offer a "superior" copy of a game and thus provide incentive to actually pay for it is through physical media.

[JB Lars]

So far, I have yet to PURCHASE A SINGLE DOWNLOADABLE ITEM! … Mainly, because I hate the fact that if I buy some game off Xbox Live or PSN, I will then have "virtual" ownership of that game. I won't ever be able to sell it to anybody else, or give it to somebody else, or trade it for another game, etc, etc.

I tend not to think of it as a purchase as much as a long-term rental. LOOOOOOOOONG-term. Yeah, I was pissed off when my Ms. Pac-Man from the original XBLA didn't come with to the 360, but it's still there on the original 'box, waiting to be played. I've never owned Super Metroid, and my SNES is in storage, so I VC'd it as a placeholder 'til I get a house and all my stuff set up. That's at the minimum one year away. Considering Blockbuster rents games $8/week, $10 for a year+ doesn't bother me so much.

I'm kinda bummed, actually, Anthony. I came in here today looking for your thoughts on VC/PSN/XBLA retro content over progressive scan component and how it stacks against RGB.

[Anthony1]

I'm kinda bummed, actually, Anthony. I came in here today looking for your thoughts on VC/PSN/XBLA retro content over progressive scan component and how it stacks against RGB.


Not to derail this thread at all.... but I can comment on this. Basically, retro games on any of those services are being run by emulation. Within the emulator, you can do various things to try to improve the visual quality of the original material, and some work better than others, but in the long run, the real deal in native RGB will always look better. Sometimes, the difference isn't as big as you'd think it would be. I can remember playing Sega Genesis roms on a Modded Xbox 1, and if you have the various settings set just perfectly, and you're running it at 720p or 1080i, it actually looks DAMN CLOSE to native RGB from a Genesis. Of course, I'd still prefer to play Genny games on a real Genny, on a RGB monitor, the way God intended. But at least for the Genny on a Modded Xbox 1 with all the right settings, you can get damn close. Having said that, everything else I've seen doesn't look too close to native RGB from the real console. Also, there is the question of does the audio sound indentical, and is the timing and the frame rate exactly the same, etc, etc. Not to mention the whole controller factor. Anytime you are playing a SNES game or a Genesis game and you aren't holding a SNES or Genesis controller in your hand, then you aren't going to forget you're playing an emulator. That's one of the biggest problems.


Ain't nothin like the real thing Baby....

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm alright with downloadable honest-to-goodness games such as VC and XBLA games. Paying for extra-modes, add-ons, expansions, unlock keys (the content is there in your machine physicly, but you need to dl something to make it usable) and special items/privledges? Not so much. Paying full retail for a download? Never. Regarding the latter, the publishers need to pass the savings on production on to the consumer. Otherwise digital distribution becomes a profit/greed issue. The upside I see to digital distribution is unique games from small dev teams will get released whereas they would never see a box release at retail. More choice, more variety and I'm all for that.

EDIT: Just had an interesting thought. Could digital distribution and retail merge and meet in the middle? You can already buy code cards at retail for downloads. Will they ever try and sell dl content that has been available for a while as a pay download... instead as a boxed product at retail, say, on an flash card or something simular? Perhaps in a compilation format?

[neogamer]

I'm alright with downloadable honest-to-goodness games such as VC and XBLA games. Paying for extra-modes, add-ons, expansions, unlock keys (the content is there in your machine physicly, but you need to dl something to make it usable) and special items/privledges? Not so much. Paying full retail for a download? Never. Regarding the latter, the publishers need to pass the savings on production on to the consumer. Otherwise digital distribution becomes a profit/greed issue. The upside I see to digital distribution is unique games from small dev teams will get released whereas they would never see a box release at retail. More choice, more variety and I'm all for that.

EDIT: Just had an interesting thought. Could digital distribution and retail merge and meet in the middle? You can already buy code cards at retail for downloads. Will they ever try and sell dl content that has been available for a while as a pay download... instead as a boxed product at retail, say, on an flash card or something simular? Perhaps in a compilation format?

Actually I wish they would just release the game at retail, then if you want extras, you can pay for them and download them as well. I could care less about that, as its up to you if you want more from your Halo 3 game. I'm actually quite happy with the single player mode. I want nothing else!
And that is coming from both my collector and gaming atributes!

Point 2: The reason why Microsoft and Nintendo sell "point" cards at retail, for their distributional services is to please retailers as well as ease the fears of people who don't feel comfortable with entering their credit card info over their gaming consoles!

[WanganRunner]

I don't like any downloadable content, at least not any that I have to pay for.

If I buy something, I want to own it, I want to be able to resell it and do whatever I want with it.

Games are not movie tickets, you're not paying for an experience, you're paying for a thing.



I hate leasing/renting anything, I like to have control over my property.

[Rob2600]

Games are not movie tickets, you're not paying for an experience, you're paying for a thing.

Really? Video games aren't experiences? Then what are they?

To me, all art is an experience.

[Jorpho]

EDIT: Just had an interesting thought. Could digital distribution and retail merge and meet in the middle? You can already buy code cards at retail for downloads. Will they ever try and sell dl content that has been available for a while as a pay download... instead as a boxed product at retail, say, on an flash card or something simular? Perhaps in a compilation format?

Already happened with Sam & Max Season 1, at least.

[neogamer]

Really? Video games aren't experiences? Then what are they?

To me, all art is an experience.

Once again, your taking another angle. This time it is the philosophical angle. I agree, video games are experiences, but they can also be owned.

A painting is art, but it can be owned. So what is your point?

[Rob2600]

I agree, video games are experiences, but they can also be owned.

A painting is art, but it can be owned. So what is your point?

A movie can be owned too, but there's also pay-per-view/movies on demand. People pay to watch a movie and then as soon as it's over, it's gone from their TV. People don't have a problem with that, so what's the problem with downloading games as well?

[neogamer]

A movie can be owned too, but there's also pay-per-view/movies on demand. People pay to watch a movie and then as soon as it's over, it's gone from their TV. People don't have a problem with that, so what's the problem with downloading games as well?

I guess your question should be directed at a person who collects DVDs and movies, now shouldn't it???

How do you know that "certain" people don't have a problem with that?

It isn't that I have a problem with digital downloading, as much as I have a problem with a lack of choices in the marketplace. Didn't we discuss this in another thread?

[Wolfrider31]

The only problem I see with digital distribution is the DRM and license problem. Essentially digital distribution (if done incorrectly) would mean that we get less use out of a game we purchased than before. Not to mention the problem of space, what happens if the company goes out of business and we lose our games etc, etc.

I don't necessarily MIND owning only a virtual copy of something. Yes, I prefer boxes, but I think that's more habit than anything. I've gotten used to music digitally (though I still buy hard copies of bands I'm a big fan of) and I think games would just take a period of adjustment.

As long as I OWN a copy of the game I'm fine with it. If not, bring on the torches.

[DaveD]

Hmmm....alot of good stuff covered in this thread...

My thoughts at this moment: I have been playing and collecting videogames since the earliest days of their existence...and today I sit here in 2007, living in a house stuffed full of old (and new) video game systems, software/cartridges/disks, books, magazines, cables, and the like...If it were a perfect world and I could somehow magically convert all my massive collection to a "virtual format" where they were stored and would not take up any physical space in the "real" world, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love for some virtual publisher to have the balls to go way back and license not only the obvious popular console titles but also all the computer-titles and goodies from the 1980's such as the Commodore 64/Amiga lineup of games, but I doubt that's ever going to happen. Problem (for me) is that I have already paid my dues, literally tens of thousands of $ for all the games/systems I have here in my house today, and am now selling most of these for pennies on the dollar. The thought of paying yet again for these "memories" disturbs me, even if it's at a significantly reduced price. Admittedly these games did bring me many years of enjoyment...but was it thousands of $ worth of enjoyment?....surely not.
Either way, at what price can you realistically price and compare a first-rate modern title to the classics? Despite fancy graphics, AI, development costs, etc., I still get just as much (if not more) enjoyment from many classic titles, although I appreciate the obvious advances in technology which the newer titles bring. Wow, do I ever remember back in the day (was it 1986-7?) thinking how "awesome" World Class Leaderboard Golf was for the Commodore64...however, today that game is an absolute laugh in comparison with the realistic golf games of today...I mean, back then they couldn't do elevation (!)...ALL the courses were flat as pancakes....

Still, many modern games don't have a clue about play (and re-) playability, IMHO, and the virtual console (or Mame) lets these newcomers experience what life was like in simpler times...Mame for Virtual Console? sounds good....?
Will it ever happen....nope....but at least I do have MAME today to relive many of those memories...and that was free (!)...

[neogamer]

Hmmm....alot of good stuff covered in this thread...

My thoughts at this moment: I have been playing and collecting videogames since the earliest days of their existence...and today I sit here in 2007, living in a house stuffed full of old (and new) video game systems, software/cartridges/disks, books, magazines, cables, and the like...If it were a perfect world and I could somehow magically convert all my massive collection to a "virtual format" where they were stored and would not take up any physical space in the "real" world, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love for some virtual publisher to have the balls to go way back and license not only the obvious popular console titles but also all the computer-titles and goodies from the 1980's such as the Commodore 64/Amiga lineup of games, but I doubt that's ever going to happen. Problem (for me) is that I have already paid my dues, literally tens of thousands of $ for all the games/systems I have here in my house today, and am now selling most of these for pennies on the dollar. The thought of paying yet again for these "memories" disturbs me, even if it's at a significantly reduced price. Admittedly these games did bring me many years of enjoyment...but was it thousands of $ worth of enjoyment?....surely not.
Either way, at what price can you realistically price and compare a first-rate modern title to the classics? Despite fancy graphics, AI, development costs, etc., I still get just as much (if not more) enjoyment from many classic titles, although I appreciate the obvious advances in technology which the newer titles bring. Wow, do I ever remember back in the day (was it 1986-7?) thinking how "awesome" World Class Leaderboard Golf was for the Commodore64...however, today that game is an absolute laugh in comparison with the realistic golf games of today...I mean, back then they couldn't do elevation (!)...ALL the courses were flat as pancakes....

Still, many modern games don't have a clue about play (and re-) playability, IMHO, and the virtual console (or Mame) lets these newcomers experience what life was like in simpler times...Mame for Virtual Console? sounds good....?
Will it ever happen....nope....but at least I do have MAME today to relive many of those memories...and that was free (!)...

I will say this:

Video game collecting is still in its infancy. That being said, had you went back to 1971 and talked about how much you spent on comic books and were considering either selling your collection or even giving it away, other people would have no problem with your decision. This is even true, given the fact that the first and possibly, second issue of the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide was readily available (much like we have the Digital Press Collector's Guide). Look at what comic books are worth today! Comic books published in the 70's are bringing in hundreds, and even thousands of dollars. We even have a third party grading company set up to grade comic books. Now, will video games reach this height of "mass appeal?" I doubt it, but they could come close. Even 50% close to that magnitude is something to ponder!

What I am trying to say is that I wouldn't recommend anyone selling their "classic" or even "part modern" video game collection right now, let alone for pennies on the dollar. If you need the space, have a new living arrangement, met the girl of your dreams, these are all life events that may make it hard for you to continue to collect. I however, see a bright future for video game collecting in the future...

Just a thought to consider...

These are the things society as a whole thought would be worthless:

1. Old Movie Posters
2. Comic Books
3. Comic Book Art
4. Most paintings from the "Picasso" era
5. 1980's toys and action figures
6. Magic Cards
7. Baseball cards
8. Stamp (collecting something someone may have licked? How appealing!)

I have many more examples, but I think you get the point. All collectibles take time to mature and develop.

[nate1749]

I'd say the video game industry will eventually follow the music industry.

[appaws]

I have no doubt that long term we will see a shift to digital downloads...maybe not everything, but a lot.

The biggest thing hindering that right now is the big retailers and HARDWARE. Think about it...there is very little profit margin in the hardware. The big retailers, like Wal-mart, etc. (where most games are still purchased) dedicate a lot of display space to hardware that they make very little money on. The payoff is in software sales. They will not put up with hardware taking up space if they can't sell most of the software for that machine.

Of course, as a previous poster said...the console manufacturers have a way around this. Working deals with the cable companies, where your cable box/dvr is also your game system. This is not far fetched...we have already seen both the ps3 and 360 at trade shows running as cable tuners/dvrs.

[2Dskillz]

Interesting, this was the discussion we had on our most recent Podcast. I believe that we are a long way off from the end of Physical copies of games. If you want them to stay around though you need to keep buying them. Collector's and Non-gamers will keep physical copies around for years to come.

Podcast can be found at www.langaming.net (episode 13)

[200609]

The only problem I see with digital distribution is the DRM and license problem. Essentially digital distribution (if done incorrectly) would mean that we get less use out of a game we purchased than before. Not to mention the problem of space, what happens if the company goes out of business and we lose our games etc, etc.

I don't necessarily MIND owning only a virtual copy of something. Yes, I prefer boxes, but I think that's more habit than anything. I've gotten used to music digitally (though I still buy hard copies of bands I'm a big fan of) and I think games would just take a period of adjustment.

As long as I OWN a copy of the game I'm fine with it. If not, bring on the torches.

The whole licensing thing is where they'll screw you, I'm sure. "License good for as long as you own the hardware, license non-transferable. If the hardware fails, tough luck. Buy another license."

When it comes to music and videos? I can deal with digital distributions. Video games? I can't deal with that. I need something *tangible* (is this just a collector's issue?), something I can rub over my body and say, "yurrr, ur myne". I have yet to pirate any currently distributed video game (I'm serious). But if digital distribution takes hold? Chances are I'll just pirate it all. I'm not going to pay for 1s and 0s unless I really REALLY like it. My reason for that? Well, I guess the truth is I just get more pleasure out of buying hard copies of video games and seeing them on my shelf than I get playing them (sad, but true).

[Razor Ramon]

I honestly haven't had time to search the previous threads to see if this issue has come up before, but does anyone here think we will soon enter into an age of complete "digital distribution" of games? Meaning that, you will not go to your nearest video game store for the latest game, instead you will download it from your home, thus killing off the future of video game collecting.

One of the reasons I do not like downloading games from Xbox, Sony, or even Nintendo, is because of this. I believe if this market grows, so do the risks. Any thoughts on this matter.

I can only say this: from my experience in the financial world, analysts are split on this.

What do you think?

If you own an I-Pod, you already know what I mean!

Bump yo

[GameDeals.ca]

I know I'm bumping an old thread, but I wonder if anyone has any new opinions on the matter.

Personally, I've expressed my displeasure for digital downloads, but primarily it stems from a purely business perspective as an indie game store owner. I like this hobby and I don't want to see it die... but the market is changing.

There are many factors changing the industry right now, and as time passes it will only get worse. Kids are growing up in a world where music is free, movies are free, and old-school video games are free (as emulated on one of many modern devices). Stores like Gamestop have screwed over the publishers for years by flooding the market with used games, and while they have seen record profits, the publishers are pissed and happy to turn to digital distribution as a way to bypass them and guarantee that everyone buys a "new" copy, completely killing the secondary market. As much as we all "claim" we will resist, we are at heart "gamers" and if the ONLY option is one we detest, we will cave in to get our fix. High-speed Internet is becoming standard (more so than home telephone now), and once it is common to have your console hooked up, and the lazy consumers can buy games from their living room, the stores will start to disappear and the hobby as we know it will be a fraction of what it is now. Sure we will still travel to the friendly local game store, and buy a few games (for considerably cheaper than they cost now), but mostly to buy T-shirts, buttons, plushies, belt buckles, and other merch that makes us feel cool, keeps the game store in business, and reminds us of how things used to be in the good old days (see: record stores). The Wii (and some other industry changes) are creating a market of new gamers who play nothing but Wii Sports, Guitar Hero, and other casual games... and buy into the latest shovelware the same way they buy into "Deal or no Deal". Don't kid yourselves, WE are the minority, THEY are the majority... it is THEIR dollars that will determine where the industry goes... and I fear for the path it's taking. At the same time, piracy is rampant and only getting worse. I had a 5-year old tell me the other day that "they need to hack the PS3 soon cause games are too expensive", his dad just nodded. Not sure if this just means more DRM bullshit, or a future of ad-supported free/cheap games, but change is coming.

As for me... I will still play games no matter the format, and my store will remain open for as long as it is feasibly possible. The process will take many years, but it is coming regardless of what a few vocal DP members do or say... because we are the minority and the corporations that make these games don't care about us.

[Leo_A]

This must still be bugging Anthony1, he has a big thread at the AVS forums going about this same topic. lol

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1034078