Educating International eBay Sellers, BRAZIL EXAMPLE

[DreamTR]

Apparently, a Brazilian collector who posts on these forums thinks that if he sends something to me from Brazil to the US, and it does not have tracking, there is no way I can file a claim if I do not receive the package because I did not "purchase" tracking. I don't think he knows how PayPal works, but I figure some of you will chime in. This is what he wrote in an eBay message to me:

If you bought an shipping service without tracking or insurance, so you will not have tracking or insurance, if you want tracking or insurance you must purchase ems service, without tracking or insurance you can't claim about delays or lost, I'm not doing the rules, it's an common rule for international shipments from all sellers on ebay. I know how paypal works, you can't want an refund because a simple delay caused by an ridiculous brazilian strike (issue not provided by seller), paypal also hear the seller side, not only the buyer side

[udisi]

umm...If the seller doesn't have proof that he sent the package and that it arrived at it's destination, Paypal will refund a claim by the buyer. Paypal is pretty much on the buyers side in disputes. Paypal makes the seller prove delivery. May not always be fair, but that's how it works.

[Vroomfunkel]

Personally, I am of the opinion that if you did not 'purchase tracking' then you are a bit of a cheapass if you try to insist on a refund. Suck it up, I say.

Sure, Paypal will side with you if you decide to make a claim. But if you're posting here for a vote of sympathy from board users (and I'm not sure why else you would post this here), then you won't get it from me. If it's not worth paying for tracking, then either don't buy it or don't kick up a fuss if it goes astray.

It's kind of like demanding your money back for a lottery ticket because you didn't win. Unless you're suggesting (which you don't appear to be) that you think the seller didn't send the item at all. I bought an item from France recently, and didn't pay for tracking. It hasn't arrived. However the seller has good feedback, and it was my choice not to pay for tracking - so I am not going to leave him bad feedback, or demand my money back, since I have no reason to believe that the fault is his. That's my take on it.

[XianXi]

I still dont know why Sellers think DC is for buyers. For international sales I always send it via EMS and log in the tracking number that day.

[Cornelius]

As to the point the OP is making, yeah that seller is just wrong. The buyer in his case could file a claim (and win) with paypal whether they get the item or not.

I've never really had an issue with this as a buyer or seller. As a seller, though, I simply won't ship to an unconfirmed address, and I always get DC with the cost built in to my shipping charge. I do make an exception for low-dollar items for Canadian buyers with very good feedback, because priority is just so much more expensive (I only ship to US and Canada, but am considering going all Int'l). Oh, and they must have contacted me for a shipping quote (based on their feedback) before bidding. Obviously I'm not a big-time seller, otherwise all that would be too much trouble.

Oh, and anything goes with Money Order buyers and DC... usually get it just so I know, but I'm not under any illusion that it really does me and good.

[jajaja]

Its the seller's responsibility to make sure the package arrives safe. If the seller doesnt specificly offers insurance and tracking and only has like "$5 shipping" and thats it, i think its valid to complaint if the package doesnt arrive.

As a seller myself, i always mention to the buyers that they can have it sent with insurance and tracking, and if they want it sent the cheapest way its on their own risk. Luckily i've never had any problems with lost packages yet, but if it happends i can fall back on my words, saying that it was on their own risk if they didnt want it sent with tracking and insurance.

[XianXi]

but if it happends i can fall back on my words, saying that it was on their own risk if they didnt want it sent with tracking and insurance.

That wont fly with Paypal. Use Paypal shiping it comes with free delivery confirmation.

[DreamTR]

Vroomfunkel: I am just POSTING something for a specific situation. I am not asking for sympathy on anything, so please don't assume anything from this. I am just trying to educate anyone that regardless of whether or not tracking was purchased or not, YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRACKING IN ORDER TO USE PAYPAL. This is an issue with anyone that ships International packages. This is the only reason I posted this. We all risk sending things via AIR MAIL because most addresses are unconfirmed anyway, but this is the issue I have with the whole thing, PayPal makes it difficult for INTL transactions in general.

The only point I am trying to make is that PayPal requires sellers to have online tracking....that's all. Not everyone thinks that is the case, but it is in their Seller policies.

[Kitsune Sniper]

That wont fly with Paypal. Use Paypal shiping it comes with free delivery confirmation.

And it also comes with D/C that doesn't work until the item is delivered, which can get you in serious trouble if the buyer files a claim and the item arrives AFTER the claim has been closed.

[Massimiliano]

I only ship with an online tracking number nowadays when I get paid via paypal coz got fucked up once by a fack' scammer. He sent me an email telling me he had happily received the game then filed a paypal claim for non-received item and I had to refund O_o

[gum_drops]

I simply won't ship to an unconfirmed address, and I always get DC with the cost built in to my shipping charge.[/QUOTE]

I have been wanting to rant about this for a while so here it goes:

The annoying thing about ebay is that the only way to enforce that you dont ship to unconfirmed addresses is to make the auction immediate payment required. And then change your paypal options to deny unconfirmed payments. This is also affective at blocking international bidders who don't contact you first about shipping prices.

That seems simple enough, oh but wait this is ebay there must be some catch. Oh yea thats right, with immediate payment there is no easy way for buyers to combine purchases. Gee thanks for the broken function ebay, thats real helpful for offering combined shipping to potential buyers. It does allow for some good fee circumvention situations though.

I guess you can put at the beginning of the auction in bold type that you dont accept paypal from unconfirmed addresses. I have tried that with other important notices and many people still bid without reading it. Many new ebayers sign up with their cc or a parents cc and dont realize or pay attention to account status. Also, I have had several buyers confuse being verified with confirmed.

The only logical solutions I can think of are:

1. Make it so all paypal users in the UK, Canada, and USA must get confirmed, eliminate unconfirmed addresses.

2. Make it easier for sellers to block potential unconfirmed buyers BEFORE they bid. Having to explain the whole confirmed vs unconfirmed deal after someone buys an item gets annoying. This seems like the best option but I dont see it happening anytime soon.

[Vroomfunkel]

Vroomfunkel: I am just trying to educate anyone that regardless of whether or not tracking was purchased or not, YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRACKING IN ORDER TO USE PAYPAL.

This is incorrect. You have to use tracking if you want to protect yourself against chargebacks on Paypal - hence it is a recommendation, not a requirement.

I am talking simply about what a buyer has a right to expect. Personally - and no doubt you will strenuously disagree - I think that if a buyer doesn't want to splash the cash for tracking/insurance for a shipment then they have no grounds to whine about it not arriving. If it wasn't worth insuring, then it can't really be worth making a big fuss about.

[Cornelius]

This is incorrect. You have to use tracking if you want to protect yourself against chargebacks on Paypal - hence it is a recommendation, not a requirement.

I am talking simply about what a buyer has a right to expect. Personally - and no doubt you will strenuously disagree - I think that if a buyer doesn't want to splash the cash for tracking/insurance for a shipment then they have no grounds to whine about it not arriving. If it wasn't worth insuring, then it can't really be worth making a big fuss about.
While I agree with this in principle, it just isn't reality. People on eBay are just dumb; my two examples are below.

I agree with the post that stating you only ship to confirmed addresses isn't enough to deter stupid people from bidding anyway, but it seems eBay at least recognizes this on some level, and has that as a selectable reason for a non-paying bidder dispute. That at least lets you get your FVF back.

My 2 jerk/dumb people: Bought a game, seller didn't want to sell it to me cause it was a good price, they refunded my payment, listed and sold it under a different account, then filed a non-paying bidder claim against me! #2. Just yesterday I had someone pay for insurance on a $15 item, but I missed it and printed a label without the insurance. Realized my mistake, voided the label (with a note explaining), printed a new label with insurance, and mailed it. 4 hours later I got an email asking why I wouldn't sell to them, then withing a couple minutes had a PayPal dispute for 'Item not received'... all this less than 24 hours after the auction closed. I understand the confusion, since she obviously wasn't reading her emails at all carefully, but giving no time to respond is just dumb.

[jajaja]

That wont fly with Paypal. Use Paypal shiping it comes with free delivery confirmation.

I know, but i mean for my own sake (or what i shall say). I think its bad of the buyer to fill a complaint if he/she was informed that sending without tracking and insurance was on their own risk. If the buyer wasnt informed about this, as said, i think it would be ok to fill out a complaint. Its sorta like if you sell something and you say "sold as is, no warranty or guarantee", and later on the buyer demands refund because its not working etc.

[DreamTR]

Vroomfunkel: You would be surprised the number of people that would claim they never "received" an item if there was no proof of tracking.

Also, this "proof of delivery" does not matter if you ship to unconfirmed addresses, which are mostly INTL shipments anyway. I've had people from Germany file claims left and right on me claiming they never got the package, but since it is UNCONFIRMED, there is nothing PayPal can do.

I'm surprised you would defend anyone about this. It's still the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer regardless of insurance or not. Feedback is dependent upon this. This is proper business. People could use that excuse all the time if they bought something and did not receive it from a seller. This is why PayPal has this protection factor built in. This is why there is tracking used regardless. If the package does not arrive to the person, it is the seller's responsibility to make it right.

Do you think someone would not put up a fuss at a big business like Sears if they shipped something without tracking? Of course, it is "expected" that they would, but not always is the case. There are many dishonest people out there and when someone has a seller claiming something was sent, and it's been 3-4 weeks, and it still has not arrived, and they do not have tracking, and stated you should have purchased insurance, etc, that's not exactly going to fly well with the feedback and to be plain and simple, it's still the seller's responsibility to make something right.

My example is a $100 item. Do you think it was a good idea for the seller not to have that item tracked? At the very least, we have Customs forms numner that show where the package was delivered if you drop it off at a post office. Other countries use registered mail and it's pretty cheap. This was just sent as-is for $8 in the hopes it would get to me, but regardless, it's still the seller's responsibility. If I did this to any of you after a transaction, I would make it right.

[PingvinBlueJeans]

If I did this to any of you after a transaction, I would make it right.

dreamtr you tell big lie...i ask you send the package to the west africa but I have not recieve...i have promise you gold and fortune...i am Nigerian prince but you treat me like dirt why?

[DreamTR]

dreamtr you tell big lie...i ask you send the package to the west africa but I have not recieve...i have promise you gold and fortune...i am Nigerian prince but you treat me like dirt why?


YOU SEND ME MONEY ORDER I CASH IT AND SEND TO WESTERN UNION FOR MY RICHLY SON IN SCHOOL WHO MARRIED NIGERIAN PRINCESS NOW WHERE IS MY GAME BOY MICRO FOR TRADE

[Bojay1997]

It's still the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer regardless of insurance or not. Feedback is dependent upon this. This is proper business. People could use that excuse all the time if they bought something and did not receive it from a seller. This is why PayPal has this protection factor built in. This is why there is tracking used regardless. If the package does not arrive to the person, it is the seller's responsibility to make it right.

Do you think someone would not put up a fuss at a big business like Sears if they shipped something without tracking? Of course, it is "expected" that they would, but not always is the case. There are many dishonest people out there and when someone has a seller claiming something was sent, and it's been 3-4 weeks, and it still has not arrived, and they do not have tracking, and stated you should have purchased insurance, etc, that's not exactly going to fly well with the feedback and to be plain and simple, it's still the seller's responsibility to make something right.

My example is a $100 item. Do you think it was a good idea for the seller not to have that item tracked? At the very least, we have Customs forms numner that show where the package was delivered if you drop it off at a post office. Other countries use registered mail and it's pretty cheap. This was just sent as-is for $8 in the hopes it would get to me, but regardless, it's still the seller's responsibility. If I did this to any of you after a transaction, I would make it right.

You know, it's an interesting debate and one that occupies a lot of time in the first few weeks of Contracts in most American law schools. Although I won't pretend that I remember much about those classes and my current practice almost never involves those type of delivery transactions, I don't agree that the seller necessarily has a legal obligation to assure an item is delivered to you. You as the buyer can assume the risk of certain results, including a complete failure of delivery depending on how much risk you agree to take on during the negotiation and purchase process.

I really can't imagine why you wouldn't pay a little extra for a shipping service that allows tracking, however. I get that EMS is expensive, but it's a $100 item for crying out loud. I know that as a seller I generally agree that I take responsibility to assure that things are right and that means on domestic transactions, I pay the 35 cents or so for tracking whether or not the buyer wants it. I also wouldn't ship anything internationally unless the buyer agrees to pay for a trackable shipping service. Otherwise they don't get to buy from me.

So, I guess I generally agree with your argument, but I think you are at least as much to blame as the seller in this case and I don't have much sympathy for you in this situation.

[DreamTR]

Bojay: Maybe if EMS was an option on my invoice? All I got was an $8 option. I guess I should have asked before, but regardless of legalities, PayPal is the ultimate judge here, and they require the package to reach the buyer, thus it being the seller's responsibility according to PayPal if you want to avoid chargebacks or claims. Therefore the RISK is on the seller as they are protected AS LONG AS THEY SHIP TO THE CONFIRMED ADDRESS. We have went over this with a fine toothed comb day in and day out on this website before in multiple threads. Bottom line is they have to show tracking. I'm honest, if the package arrives, good, but my situation is no different than anyone else on here who never gets their package and everyone else jumps to them and says "file a claim, etc etc."

[Bojay1997]

Bojay: Maybe if EMS was an option on my invoice? All I got was an $8 option. I guess I should have asked before, but regardless of legalities, PayPal is the ultimate judge here, and they require the package to reach the buyer, thus it being the seller's responsibility according to PayPal if you want to avoid chargebacks or claims. Therefore the RISK is on the seller as they are protected AS LONG AS THEY SHIP TO THE CONFIRMED ADDRESS. We have went over this with a fine toothed comb day in and day out on this website before in multiple threads. Bottom line is they have to show tracking. I'm honest, if the package arrives, good, but my situation is no different than anyone else on here who never gets their package and everyone else jumps to them and says "file a claim, etc etc."

Sure, but you're not exactly a brand new buyer. You've been around the block with international shipping a number of times I would imagine. So, the fact that you just assumed $8 got you tracking or insurance from Brazil is laughable. Having said that, I agree that the seller is probably screwed in this situation. So, I really don't feel sorry for you and I don't believe that you are entirely in the right assuming the seller did in fact ship. I feel like you just got lucky on a technicality, so count your blessings. Hopefully next time you'll be more educated and think to ask about tracking. Good luck.

[Vroomfunkel]

Vroomfunkel: You would be surprised the number of people that would claim they never "received" an item if there was no proof of tracking.

Also, this "proof of delivery" does not matter if you ship to unconfirmed addresses, which are mostly INTL shipments anyway. I've had people from Germany file claims left and right on me claiming they never got the package, but since it is UNCONFIRMED, there is nothing PayPal can do.

I'm surprised you would defend anyone about this. It's still the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer regardless of insurance or not. Feedback is dependent upon this. This is proper business.

First off, I have bought and sold thousands of items on ebay - many of them internationally - so I am well aware of the issues and principles at stake here. Furthermore, I have shipped many items without tracking so I'm afraid your assumption about my 'suprise' at the number of people who falsely claim things don't turn up holds no water. I think it's happened once.

Next, comparing eBay purchases to buying something from Sears is pretty pointless. They are just not comparable activities. The whole point of eBay is that you can buy from all sorts of people, and they aren't necessarily big smooth business operations - as much as you, and eBay, might like them to be. And sure, there are a few scammers on eBay - but they are vastly outnumbered by the decent people.

As for your $100 item, I would say it's not a great idea to have it not tracked. On the other hand, the seller's email suggested that you had a choice between paying for standard airmail and paying for an insured/trackable service, and you chose the standard service. In which case I would say the fault is mostly or even entirely yours. If you took a gamble on the cost to risk ratio and lost, then you have my sympathy for your bad luck if this thing doesn't turn up - but I would say next time you should pony up the extra for the tracking.

Given the further info you've disclosed then as far as I can see, the seller's fault was not to specify that the shipping was standard airmail .. but as Bojay has pointed out, it's not as if you came in with the last rainshower. You know trackable/insured shipping from Brazil doesn't cost $8. If it were, say, a NWC cart that you'd snagged for $100 would you have it shipped from Brazil for $8 without checking if it was tracked?

I am actually interested to know, so perhaps you can tell us straight: did you really think you were getting insured/trackable postage from Brazil for $8?

[DreamTR]

Vroomfunkel: No, I don't know how much Brazil mail costs to ship to the US with tracking. Why would It be assumed I would? I don't live in Brazil. It costs me $5 to ship something to Brazil and drop it off at the post office with the Customs Number that IS traceable, so you tell me how I was to assume this? He charged me $8. I have seen registered mail show up at my door from all sorts of countries for around this rate of $8 US.

Bojay: He did NOT give me the option in an email, it was in the description. What happened was someone sent me an auction, I sniped it. Seller sent me an invoice later on, I paid it, simple as that.

[suppafly]

You know trackable/insured shipping from Brazil doesn't cost $8. If it were, say, a NWC cart that you'd snagged for $100 would you have it shipped from Brazil for $8 without checking if it was tracked?

Vroomfunkel has a point. Its just silly to think a 8 US international shipping method could be insured and trackable...

[DreamTR]

*sigh* suppafly, I never said "insured", I said trackable. Like I just mentioned above, you can ship anywhere in the world AIR MAIL if you bring the parcel to the post office and it will be cheaper than this. And yes, you can track from teh Customs # on US INTL packs from your postal receipt. Much cheaper. I have also received packages registered many times for this rate and less from other places. No insurance, I am not mentioning insurance.

[Vroomfunkel]

I have seen registered mail show up at my door from all sorts of countries for around this rate of $8 US.

Well, all I can say is you must have encountered some pretty generous sellers! I don't know of anywhere that you can get properly trackable international mail for a package for $8 (and by properly trackable, I mean something that will be acceptable by Paypal, which means that you have to be able to check the status of the item online).

I don't assume that you know the exact postal rates from Brazil, but I was assuming that you have probably made quite a number of international purchases, and ought to be reasonably aware of the approximate cost of insuring an international shipment. If it's your general policy to purchase expensive items from overseas without insurance, then I'll forgive your lack of knowledge - but would like to advise you that you've been extraordinarily lucky that only one has gone astray so far!!

I'm not sure why you're suddenly 'not mentioning insurance' - I thought the issue was that you wanted recompense for this item going missing. Surely that requires insurance?

[DreamTR]

Insurance is really one big mess. Tracking is a much better idea for something like this. WHy pay 15% of the total to insure something for $100? I would rather use it for a $5000 item where the rate is much less.


Now, after filing this claim, this "tracking" number that did not exist before suddenly was sent to me? Now what are you guys going to say to me. He stated I should have purchased tracking, now it appears only after a claim? Hrm. The plot thickens.

[gum_drops]

Now, after filing this claim, this "tracking" number that did not exist before suddenly was sent to me? Now what are you guys going to say to me. He stated I should have purchased tracking, now it appears only after a claim? Hrm. The plot thickens.

Hopefully an empty package with delivery conformation doesnt arrive at your residence.

USPS delivered a completely empty flat rate priority box that was ripped open at the top to me a month ago How that qualifies as delivered is beyond me.

[DreamTR]

I got the tracking number. Shipped out International Priority apparently on Sep 5.

After repeated attempts, now there is a tracking number after there originally was not, and it was shipped INTL Priority for $8.

SO Vroomfunkel, Bojay, and Suppafly, I guess all of you were highly incorrect because apparently you can not have a tracking number then magically have one shipped to me with the $8 I shipped for. Boy oh boy, I guess you can get tracking.

[Market Man]

Come to the Marketplace for self-affirmation therapy, stay for the irrelevant debate!

[Market Man's Crotch]

Remember, kids! An empty victory is no victory at all!

[nebrazca78]

4 hours later I got an email asking why I wouldn't sell to them, then withing a couple minutes had a PayPal dispute for 'Item not received'... all this less than 24 hours after the auction closed. I understand the confusion, since she obviously wasn't reading her emails at all carefully, but giving no time to respond is just dumb.

This sounds like bullshit. Paypal makes you wait over a week before you can file an item not received claim.

[Massimiliano]

This sounds like bullshit. Paypal makes you wait over a week before you can file an item not received claim.

Ebay does, not paypal.

[Cornelius]

Ebay does, not paypal.
bingo.

I was tempted to escalate the dispute to a claim, just to see what would happen. I was surprised that I, as the seller, was given that option, though.

Regaurdless, she dropped the dispute once she *finally* clued in to what was going on.

[Buyatari]

yeah you can file item not recieved the minute after you send the payment as far I as was told.

[DreamTR]

Sure, but you're not exactly a brand new buyer. You've been around the block with international shipping a number of times I would imagine. So, the fact that you just assumed $8 got you tracking or insurance from Brazil is laughable. Having said that, I agree that the seller is probably screwed in this situation. So, I really don't feel sorry for you and I don't believe that you are entirely in the right assuming the seller did in fact ship. I feel like you just got lucky on a technicality, so count your blessings. Hopefully next time you'll be more educated and think to ask about tracking. Good luck.


Sorry, have to say that that package came to me with tracking, and indeed it WAS $8 WITH TRACKING (REGISTERED), but for some reason the seller made it out like he did not have tracking. BOY I MUST BE DIRBUTTERSTUPIDFORASSUMINGITHADTRACKINGFOREIGHTDOL LARS.

[Bojay1997]

Sorry, have to say that that package came to me with tracking, and indeed it WAS $8 WITH TRACKING (REGISTERED), but for some reason the seller made it out like he did not have tracking. BOY I MUST BE DIRBUTTERSTUPIDFORASSUMINGITHADTRACKINGFOREIGHTDOL LARS.

Well, I guess you showed me. Of course, I do have to wonder why you would start a thread complaining about a seller and accusing him of failing to provide tracking and therefore being outside of Paypal's protections when you not only had tracking, but ended up getting the item. I guess I'm not smart enough to understand your motivations and your noble quest to educate the rest of the world as to the proper way to do business with you.

[DreamTR]

Bojay: Because apparently you never read what I originally wrote. I asked the seller for tracking. He said it did not contain it. I stated that in order to be covered by PayPal, you have to have tracking, regardless of what happens. At that point, that's when you and a couple of other people called it "laughable" that I would "assume" it was only $8 for tracking, and I should have sprung for EMS. Yet, it took a PayPal claim to "all of a sudden" have tracking, which would have made the entire thread moot if he just would have added it in the first place, but apparently I am still the bad guy for getting lied to about tracking in the first place, then ostracized by some people on here for being RIGHT of all things about the tracking being the price I thought it was. For Vroomfunkel's "hundreds" of transactions, and me assuming there was tracking which there was, but I was informed there was not, don't you think I had a right to have a red flag about this being 21 days out? So yeah, that's why I'm a bit peeved now, I've never ripped anyone off, this had shady circumstances, and you guys are quick to chastise me after you are all entirely wrong on all accounts including the shipping. Amazing how I get yelled at and he has no disdain from anyone. Wow.

[nebrazca78]

At least you're right and you've been vindicated.

[Bojay1997]

Bojay: Because apparently you never read what I originally wrote. I asked the seller for tracking. He said it did not contain it. I stated that in order to be covered by PayPal, you have to have tracking, regardless of what happens. At that point, that's when you and a couple of other people called it "laughable" that I would "assume" it was only $8 for tracking, and I should have sprung for EMS. Yet, it took a PayPal claim to "all of a sudden" have tracking, which would have made the entire thread moot if he just would have added it in the first place, but apparently I am still the bad guy for getting lied to about tracking in the first place, then ostracized by some people on here for being RIGHT of all things about the tracking being the price I thought it was. For Vroomfunkel's "hundreds" of transactions, and me assuming there was tracking which there was, but I was informed there was not, don't you think I had a right to have a red flag about this being 21 days out? So yeah, that's why I'm a bit peeved now, I've never ripped anyone off, this had shady circumstances, and you guys are quick to chastise me after you are all entirely wrong on all accounts including the shipping. Amazing how I get yelled at and he has no disdain from anyone. Wow.

Actually, I did read what you wrote and I just re-read it again to make sure. It appears that you didn't have a point at all. It seems that all you were doing is using the forums to try and indirectly communicate with a seller and rub his face in the fact that whether or not you paid for tracking, he was going to be screwed because you were going to get a refund from Paypal whether he shipped the item or not.

I've been doing international video game transactions on Ebay and outside of it since the mid-80s. In all that time and thousands of transactions, I have never been screwed over even a single time. I think people are generally honest and try to do the right thing when it comes to doing business in this community. What prompted me to respond to your thread in the first place was my perception that the title and content of your initial post was arrogant, somewhat juvenile and frankly could have the tendency of making international sellers less willing to deal with Americans. This is something I have dealt with for years and while Ebay and Paypal have made it easier, there are still sellers unwilling to deal with Americans because they perceive us as impatient, rude and frankly too much of a hassle to make it worth their while.

Is 21 days unreasonable for shipping from Brazil? I don't know, but I can tell you it has taken me over a month to get items from Canada on occasion and as little as 3 days via EMS from Europe. The transactions I have done with Brazil for Sega Master System items all were sent with EMS and allowed real-time tracking, so I never really worried about it. The fact that regular Brazil Post offers such tracking now at a reasonable price is certainly news to me, particularly since our own postal service charges almost double what Brazil is apparently charging to provide similar service going the other way.

I guess I find it hard to have sympathy for someone who would use indirect communication to try and generate disdain for a seller who apparently did everything right and even now refuses to acknowledge that just maybe he overreacted and maybe in the future he should confirm with a seller that an expensive item will be sent with tracking and insurance. I'm glad everything worked out fine. Hopefully all of us have learned a valuable lesson here.

[DreamTR]

Bojay: He told me it was my fault if the package got lost for not buying tracking. He told me he did NOT have tracking, but suddenly he does after filing a claim? Did you re-read where I said this all would have held up better if he would have told the truth in the first place? Please don't confuse "arrogance" with me just trying to get the right story here. Fact is, he lied about tracking, told me nothing he could do, now it arrives safely with tracking, yet he did everything right by lying to me?

This was also not "indirect communication", I wanted a straight answer, you need tracking to not have claims filed against you if you use PayPal, simple as that, and everyone jumps on me. I did not post the messages when he basically stated he could not do anything. That's not good customer service when you lie about something. You can take his side, whatever, but you are 100% wrong.

[Griking]

Personally, I am of the opinion that if you did not 'purchase tracking' then you are a bit of a cheapass if you try to insist on a refund. Suck it up, I say.

I agree 100%

Everyone wants something for nothing.

[DreamTR]

I agree 100%

Everyone wants something for nothing.

Griking: Learn to read:

HE HAD TRACKING. HE ORIGINALLY TOLD ME HE DID NOT, HE LIED ABOUT THE TRANSACTION, TRACKING WAS INCLUDED.

Well, this is done anyway, moderator can you please lock?