Wii = Gamecube 1.5? YES says Beyond 3D

[sabre2922]

Sept.24 2007

The Wii's Technical Specifications
"Broadway, the Wii's CPU, is a derivative of the PowerPC 750 CL clocked at 729Mhz. It is fully backwards compatible with the Gekko, the GameCube's CPU, which was clocked at 485Mhz."

"Hollywood, the Wii's GPU, also contains the southbridge and a DSP for audio processing. It is based on the GameCube's GPU, Flipper, and has no notable increases in programmability. However, it is clocked 50 percent higher (243Mhz versus 162Mhz). Most of the chip remains unchanged"

please take time to read the full article before flaming.

remember im just the MESSENGER so dont kill me.

and yea this isnt the NEWEST NEWS but it FINALLY seems to be solid evidence of what the Wiis graphical capabilities really are.

the full article HERE: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/09/24/is-wii-really-gamecube-one-point-five-yes-says-beyond3d.aspx

[Kid Ice]

I thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now.

[Oobgarm]

Yeah, I'm failing to see how this is really important, if only to ruffle feathers.

[scooterb23]

The Wii is the Gamecube 1.5

The 360 is an XBox 1.5 with a heating problem.

The PS3 is a George Foreman Grill with better graphics.

The DS is a Game.com on steroids

The PSP is an N-Gage without the sweet sidetalkin' feature.

[neogamer]

The Wii is the Gamecube 1.5

The 360 is an XBox 1.5 with a heating problem.

The PS3 is a George Foreman Grill with better graphics.

The DS is a Game.com on steroids

The PSP is an N-Gage without the sweet sidetalkin' feature.

That is quite funny, I must admit....

[Gentlegamer]

So when the Wii outsells the GameCube and the current gen consoles will it be GameCube 50,000,000.00?

[sabre2922]

Yeah, I'm failing to see how this is really important, if only to ruffle feathers.

Didnt state that it was NEW news but I thought it was a good read since the fact is that the Wii is just a slightly pumped up Gamecube with a new control scheme.

Hate on me if you want DPers and flame away if ya want:onfire:.

I cant be the only one that wanted to know the truth about what the Wii innards really were after seeing how some Wii games like the new Cruis n game look WORSE than most last gen Xbox and PS2 racers and thats just ONE sample.

Im not saying that the Wii isnt a great system sure it is.

Im also not saying that the Wii doesnt have nice graphics.

and Im sure as hell not stating that the Wii isnt a success in just about everyway that Nintendo needed it to be.

I AM STATING THAT IT IS A FACT that the Wii is in reality an overclocked Gamecube that I believe will age graphically very quickly in the eyes of many gamers (yes even the casuals) within a VERY short time period once both the PS3 and Xbox360 hit their stride.

I have lotsa respect for everyone here at DP but the bias TOWARDS Nintendo is and always has been a constant here at DP so if that brings me a lot of hate or whatever then so be it.

I have a tendancy to NOT go along with the "whats pop" now.

A perfect example of that is that I think that HALO is a decent game its a GOOD game but not a GREAT GAME and I state that in other forums and get flamed by all the halo kids and fanboys like I hated on their mommas or killed one of their relatives.

My point is this: Im not backing down from the fact that the Wii is a repackaged Gamecube with a New (and innovative) control setup.

Sure sure thats all been "said before" and this topic is sooo "old" :deadhorse:will be the responses but I think that my point is a VALID ONE and that this article FINALLY puts to rest the question of what the Wii really is technically when compared to the other CURRENT game consoles and no matter what hate it brings my way I stand by the statement that the Wii in all reality is simply nothing more than a juiced up Gamecube with new control/gameplay elements.

Thats not to say that the new controllers are "tacked on" since they are NOT they are a built in fully featured element of what the Wii is all about.

Im not pro Microsoft Im not pro Sony and no im not a Nintendo fanboy so I sometimes dont fit in here at DP.

but I AM A GAMER and I have been for over 25 years the same as many of you hereat DP and I play a game system for ITS GAMES! nothing more NO brand loyalty NO blind fanboy bias just the GAMES baby just the GAMES.

[Anthony1]

I've been wondering if there is going to be a way, in the modding community, to actually get Wii games working on an actual GameCube. I mean, honestly, it is the same damn thing, but with a different controller. There might be someway to get a $50 GameCube to run Wii games. Of course, you would have to use a standard GameCube controller, so for alot of Wii games it wouldn't really work, but there are lots of Wii games that would work fine without waggle.

[sabre2922]

From the last part of the full article:

"By informing people about the technical nature of the Wii, it's our hope that the discussion surrounding the Wii will rapidly progress to even deeper questions: how exactly does the controller influence the gaming experience? Is the Wii's approach to control always better, or are there times when the separation between the onscreen protagonist and the player is desirable? Are there games that could seriously benefit from the Wii's control scheme that are hampered by its technical limitations? Once people dispel themselves of the idea of the Wii as a magical device that will completely redefine gaming and instead accept its limitations, the gaming community can begin to answer these questions and, hopefully, make games even more fun."

Neither ME nor the those who wrote this article are HATING on the Wii they are simply asking the same questions that not only me but many other gamers are asking and wondering about thats all.

[roushimsx]

The 360 is an XBox 1.5 with a heating problem.


the 360 is far more powerful than that. That's like calling the Dreamcast a Saturn 1.5.


The PS3 is a George Foreman Grill with better graphics.

You forgot the SIXAXIS


The DS is a Game.com on steroids

Oh god, why did you have to remind me of the Game.com? :'(


The PSP is an N-Gage without the sweet sidetalkin' feature.

At least the PSP now has Red Lynx, easily the best thing about the N-Gage. Those guys needed to move to a platform where they'd sell more than a few thousand copies of a game... they might have been able to make the most of the N-Gage's features, but the N-Gage sure as hell didn't give them the wide audience that they deserved.


I've been wondering if there is going to be a way, in the modding community, to actually get Wii games working on an actual GameCube.

That'd be an interesting hack; I'm sure it'd be improbable for a lot of games, but given how half-assed a lot of the early software was I doubt it'd be impossible to get at least a couple of games up and running on GC hardware.

What really interests me is that since the Wii is becoming the dominant platform this generation, I'm looking forward to seeing developers really stress the fuck out of the graphics hardware. The GC got the shaft from most devs (which carried over to tons of Wii stuff :( ) with second rate ports, but with its massive market share, it'll be neat seeing people utilize it to the fullest like the PS2 last generation.

Shame the controller gets forced on people the way it does, though. What's Nintendo's deal with only wanting the classic controller being used with VC titles? If Nintendo wasn't being so damned bone headed about it, the Wii version of Metal Slug Anthology could have turned out pretty alright.

[Kid Ice]

I AM STATING THAT IT IS A FACT that the Wii is in reality an overclocked Gamecube that I believe will age graphically very quickly in the eyes of many gamers (yes even the casuals) within a VERY short time period once both the PS3 and Xbox360 hit their stride.



Yeah we know. Everyone knows. What is your point? You went into a huge rant to argue with people who are not arguing with you.

[studvicious]

What's Nintendo's deal with only wanting the classic controller being used with VC titles?

Not true.


after seeing how some Wii games like the new Cruis n game look WORSE than most last gen Xbox and PS2 racers and thats just ONE sample.

This is what bugs me about that. Even if the Wii is a Gamecube 1.5 the games for it should look at LEAST as good as Gamecube's games did. Which most of the Wii's current library do not. So that would mean that the developers of these crappy games are just trying to pump out as many titles as they can while primarily focusing on the waggle. I read an interview with the developer of Elebits and he pretty much said just that. Something like unfortunately due to time constraints we spent most of our time with the controls and we weren't able to focus on the graphics as much as we would have like to.

So we just need to give these companies a couple of rounds to get these stupid waggle-fest crap games out of their system so they can create a more balanced game. (IMHO)

[Fuyukaze]

God, we get it. You realy hate Nintendo. Cant you come up with something more usefull to try convincing people how great the $500/$600 PS3 is yet? How about coming up with something for why we should go spend nearly $300-$500 on a 360? Your begining to sound just like Anthony1 in your inability to do anything but repeat yourself over and over again.

[roushimsx]

Not true.

Ahh, I misread the quote (http://wii.ign.com/articles/781/781316p2.html).

Now if only more companies would support it.

[Garry Silljo]

I'm tired of things being labeled with decimals because people think sequals need to be a specified power level over their predecessors.

If in Hollywood a movie's sequal has a smaller budget than the original film, the majority of the time a 2 is still slapped on the back. Why, because it's the new one.

The Wii is not the Gamecube 1.5, if it was they would have named it that. The Wii is the Wii, .... the end.

[Jorpho]

but I AM A GAMER and I have been for over 25 years the same as many of you hereat DP and I play a game system for ITS GAMES! nothing more NO brand loyalty NO blind fanboy bias just the GAMES baby just the GAMES.

Okay... So it doesn't matter if the Wii's games "age graphically very quickly in the eyes of many gamers", right?

On second thought, I should stop trying to make sense of these things.

[Rob2600]

Some developers believe the Wii is 1.5 times more powerful than the GameCube and some developers believe it's 2.5 times more powerful than the GameCube. It depends on who is being interviewed.

The Gamecube was an efficient, powerful piece of hardware that was capable of displaying very impressive graphics (Star Fox Adventures, Resident Evil 4, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Metroid Prime, Burnout 2: Point of Impact, Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike, Beach Spikers, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, etc.). The Wii is twice as powerful, so eventually Wii games should look twice as good, right? Compare first-generation PlayStation games with third-generation PlayStation games.

Anyway, the graphics still might not be as good as what the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 can do, but having games that look twice as good as Resident Evil 4 or Star Fox Adventures would be fine with me!

[otaku]

Yep definetly true but not entirely sad I mean I liked the gamecube it had some quality titles worth owning it for and so does/will wii. Also not only is it slightly souped up over GC but it also has all the cool motion stuff and internet support/VC so that stuff helps some. The cool thing is it literally is still a gamecube (still has all the things cube had, controllers mem card and minidiscs) anyway its also a very nicely designed system like the cube-sexy little guys.

Needs more games though hopefully it will outperform wii

[smokehouse]

I feel the larger point with the Wii is not so much “amazing graphics”, it’s more like “amazing gameplay”. I’ll be the first to admit that the brand spankin’ new Metroid looks outdated already, but is that really the point with the Wii?

Nope…

Most of what makes the Wii stand out is the fact that the games are simple and most of all, FUN. If good multiplayer titles like the Sports pack continue to come out…the Wii will be rock solid.



Add to that the virtual console aspect and it’s making really amazing older titles available to those not bitten by the collecting bug and you have a great package for a low price.














BTW...look at the powerhouse PS3...all it's processing power and no games...

[sabre2922]

God, we get it. You realy hate Nintendo. Cant you come up with something more usefull to try convincing people how great the $500/$600 PS3 is yet? How about coming up with something for why we should go spend nearly $300-$500 on a 360? Your begining to sound just like Anthony1 in your inability to do anything but repeat yourself over and over again.

First and Foremost I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANYTHING concerning the 360 or the PS3.

They are overpriced and the Xbox360 is so far a FPS fanboys paradise and little more and the PS3 has NO FUCKING GAMES !

HOWS THAT FOR FLAME BAIT?

I have set back for the past year and read post after post at how great and wonderful Nintendo is over and over and held my sometimes counter opinions on those very same subjects to myself therefore I wanted to "test the grounds" and see what the response would be here at DP and I hoped for the best but I got all of THIS and if you want to call me an ANTHONY 1 or what the fuck ever then so be it>

I dont remember personally attacking ANYONE ON THIS FORUM IN THIS THREAD so IM THE FUCKING BAD GUY?

I guess to get along and go along here at DP one has only to be a Nintendophile and follow the unrwritten DP rules wich seems to be : DONT TALK BAD ABOUT NINTENDO AND DONT POST ANHYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT NINTENDO!

I have been a member of this well respected forum since late '03 maybe that isnt shit compared to other esteemed members and I think that gamers everywhere should get on the DP forums and learn something from all its members BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.

[BydoEmpire]

I cant be the only one that wanted to know the truth about what the Wii innardsThe Wii's specs have been publicly available for what, a year now?

Whatever, Metroid Prime 3 is gorgeous. Zelda: TP is gorgeous. I'm sure Mario Galaxy will be gorgeous. Yes, I do have a 360 and an HDTV to compare it with. Sure, everyone would like *more* eye candy, but I think the Wii's graphics are plenty good enough considering the console's focus on new and fresh game controls.

[Garry Silljo]

I have been a member of this well respected forum since late '03 maybe that isnt shit compared to other esteemed members and I think that gamers everywhere should get on the DP forums and learn something from all its members BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.

I don't think you are getting jumped on for talking bad about Nintendo. It appears to be more or less for beating a dead horse.

[TheDomesticInstitution]

I have been a member of this well respected forum since late '03 maybe that isnt shit compared to other esteemed members and I think that gamers everywhere should get on the DP forums and learn something from all its members BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.

I haven't been here that long so I don't have a lot of room to talk... but I have learned to be careful about posting in any thread related to the Wii, anything concerning current console sales, or current gen game libraries... There is a lot of mudslinging that goes on in those areas, and there are certain people that will never be wrong. Some of those people are already posting on this thread, and a few have yet to show up. And these things aways wind up going in circles. Threads like this are about as productive as those blu-ray vs. HD-DVD debates raging elsewhere. Interesting article though, so thanks for sharing it. Sorry you have to deal with some of the bullshit though... it's just a really sensitive topic. That's not to say that everyone here is jumping on you... just a few.

[esquire]

I don't think you are getting jumped on for talking bad about Nintendo. It appears to be more or less for beating a dead horse.

Garry, my reply is not directed at you but to those who may be responding in such a way as you state in your reply - for beating a dead horse:

If you think the topic is old news (FYI, the article is dated September 24, 2007), why even respond? Just move along to the next thread. You are not obligated to post in every thread. If its a duplicate thread, a MOD will let the OP know and lock the thread. Between the nintendo fanboys and the "junior" MODs, sometimes it can be very frustating to follow a thread because of all the flaming.

Believe it or not, there are people who may be interested in this topic. Just because you may not be or you think the topic is stupid, redundant or whatever, you can exercise discretion and move on.

Back on topic:
Thanks for the article. It was interesting. It makes me wonder how long the Wii will be a viable console, especially for the hard-core gamers, as I believe it will not be able to compete with the 360 and PS3 when it comes to the cross-platforms such as Splinter Cell, Need for Speed, and Call of Duty. Nintendo's consoles will of course always be popular for their 1st party franchise releases which are unique to their consoles (Zelda, Mario, etc.). But given the choice of playing a Need for Speed for instance, I'd rather play it on one of the other 2 consoles. Also the graphical limitations will prevent such games as Assassin's Creed, Oblivion, Orange Box, Unreal Tournament III, Soul Calibur IV or Devil May Cry 4 being developed for it along with the PS3 and 360; or games that are graphically on par with and as in depth as Ace Combat 6, MGS4 or Burnout Paradise to name a few.

I guess I am one of the silent minority who is disappointed so far with the Wii. Mine has been collecting dust for some time now as I haven't turned it on since Super Paper Mario was released. I recently picked up Prince of Persia after the price drop to $29.99, only because it is one of my favorite series, but have yet to play it. There are not that many titles that spark my interest.

[NE146]

So what you're saying is.. the Gamecube is winning the next gen wars by creaming the ps3 and 360.

We all know this. And it's funny as heck. I still want to resurrect the "Gamecube is dead" threads from a couple of years back to say no it isn't LOL

[dendawg]

I have been a member of this well respected forum since late '03 maybe that isnt shit compared to other esteemed members and I think that gamers everywhere should get on the DP forums and learn something from all its members BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.


http://www.webdelsol.com/The_Potomac/issue2/crybaby.jpg

[UniHamachi]

It makes me wonder how long the Wii will be a viable console, especially for the hard-core gamers, as I believe it will not be able to compete with the 360 and PS3 when it comes to the cross-platforms
How long before it can't compete?? How about one month ago when pretty much no one wanted Madden 08 for the Wii.

The thing is, the kind of horsepower described in the article is enough for the cartoony mascot games Nintendo makes. And even fantastical stuff like MP3 looks fabulous (although the frequent aliasing was annoying to have to see -- the model of Samus coming out of the ship was an eyesore compared to the rest of the game). But something like Splinter Cell, or MGS, or anything that requires photo-realism will simply not happen on the Wii. I mean, RE4 looks niiice. But in a couple of years, what you will see coming out on the PS3 and 360 absoltuely blow that away. That said...

Since I have neither the time nor the money nor the inclination to play Splinter Cell or MGS or Halo 3, I don't really care all that much about how weak ass the Wii is graphically. Personally, I thought Zelda TP looked amazing, so I guess my bar is low compared to the hardcore crowd. Gimme a smooth 60fps at 480p over a chugging 30fps 720p or 1080p any day. There is a price you pay for photo-realism, and I don't want to get stuck with that tab.

I'm pretty sure the success of the Wii has surprised Nintendo as much as anyone. It seems like it was a last ditch, low investment attempt at carving a niche in the marketplace. Little did they know that it wouold blow up like this. No one saw this coming.

In a few years, Nintendo is going to have to launch their own HD console if they want to retain their marketshare. Because as much as consumers are graphics whores, I get the feeling that it's the developers who are the biggest group of graphics whores on the planet. Which means that outside of Nintendo, no one is going to want to create a flagship franchise on the Wii. If there is no HD Wii, then the PS3 will slowly claw its way back to the top in the next 3-4 years.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Entering and reading this thread (like so many others, sadly) is likened to walking into a room where the occupants are arguing about something you either already knew and/or frankly don't care about. There are protocols in place to deal with situations like this... let's see what's going on in another room.

@Saber: The shit got slung not because of the topic but rather you're reasons for posting it in the first place. While you may well be innocent and undeserving of being suspected of trolling... however, it honestly doesn't appear that way. Especially given your opening angle and following replies. You didn't help yourself at all in that regard. That's what I see anywho. The perceived Sony/Nintendo bias (depends on who you talk to) here at DP seems to be slowly correcting itself. Though, there are some folks stuck in the mode of "the way things were" even still.

@NE146: YES! DO IT! LOL The "PSP is gonna stomp DS" threads have already been given the same treatment so, where is the harm? IIRC no persons or animals have been injured, maimed or killed by raising a dead thread. Annoyed yes, but that's where the fun lies. :D

[Nature Boy]

I'm tired of things being labeled with decimals because people think sequals need to be a specified power level over their predecessors.

If in Hollywood a movie's sequal has a smaller budget than the original film, the majority of the time a 2 is still slapped on the back. Why, because it's the new one.

The Wii is not the Gamecube 1.5, if it was they would have named it that. The Wii is the Wii, .... the end.

Problem solved: Gamecube 1 1/2!

(Seriously, didn't they release Xmen on DVD as Xmen 1.5 because it had different features like extra scenes or something?)

[boatofcar]

I'm tired of people bashing the PS3 so here's some flame bait to get the Wii bashing going!

Seriously man, we all know what your MO is on this board. Just get over it.

[Rob2600]

Personally, I thought Zelda TP looked amazing, so I guess my bar is low compared to the hardcore crowd.

I agree. The Wii is supposedly twice as powerful as the GameCube, so eventually we'll have games that look twice as good as Resident Evil 4 or Star Fox Adventures. That's fine with me.


Gimme a smooth 60fps at 480p over a chugging 30fps 720p or 1080p any day. There is a price you pay for photo-realism, and I don't want to get stuck with that tab.

Again, I agree. Compare the most impressive looking video games to old TV shows or movies. There's still a long way to go. Developers haven't even come close to perfecting photo-realistic standard-definition graphics yet and they've already rushed into high-definition. Shouldn't the processing power of the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 be used to make standard-definition games that look 99 percent real instead of making high-definition games that look a little bit real?

[Oobgarm]

I cant be the only one that wanted to know the truth about what the Wii innards really were after seeing how some Wii games like the new Cruis n game look WORSE than most last gen Xbox and PS2 racers and thats just ONE sample.

I have lotsa respect for everyone here at DP but the bias TOWARDS Nintendo is and always has been a constant here at DP so if that brings me a lot of hate or whatever then so be it.

But seriously, though. You notice the bias towards Nintendo, yet post this topic, knowing full well that all it's going to do is piss people off. I don't understand it. I understand you want to be the 'truthbringer' or whatever, you had to know that your posting of this is not going to change anyone's mind about the Wii. It's not going to get a community up in arms over anything, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever. We had discussions on this previously, and yet no one really hungered for the confirmation this article presents. it was pretty much understood at this stage in the game.

And honestly, I couldn't give two shits about your or anyone's allegiance to any particular manufacturer or what-have-you. You're your own person; you do what makes you happy, your opinion is what ultimately matters.

[boatofcar]

sabre2922, if we agree that Sony is the best and Nintendo sucks, will you go away? Because I'll say it anytime you like.

[Rob2600]

So what you're saying is.. the Gamecube is winning the next gen wars by creaming the ps3 and 360.

Good point!

[Kid Ice]

BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.

I'm confused. Who is attacking you? I've looked at this a few times to see what can be construed as "attack".

[geneshifter]

First and Foremost I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANYTHING concerning the 360 or the PS3.

They are overpriced and the Xbox360 is so far a FPS fanboys paradise and little more and the PS3 has NO FUCKING GAMES !

HOWS THAT FOR FLAME BAIT?

I have set back for the past year and read post after post at how great and wonderful Nintendo is over and over and held my sometimes counter opinions on those very same subjects to myself therefore I wanted to "test the grounds" and see what the response would be here at DP and I hoped for the best but I got all of THIS and if you want to call me an ANTHONY 1 or what the fuck ever then so be it>

I dont remember personally attacking ANYONE ON THIS FORUM IN THIS THREAD so IM THE FUCKING BAD GUY?

I guess to get along and go along here at DP one has only to be a Nintendophile and follow the unrwritten DP rules wich seems to be : DONT TALK BAD ABOUT NINTENDO AND DONT POST ANHYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT NINTENDO!

I have been a member of this well respected forum since late '03 maybe that isnt shit compared to other esteemed members and I think that gamers everywhere should get on the DP forums and learn something from all its members BUT when I am attacked in this way for posting a SLIGHTLY NEGATIVE THREAD ABOUT ALMIGHTY NINTENDO then maybe I have been wrong about some of the members of this great forum/board all along.

Uh, there are a lot of posts from people that think the games suck for the most part, including me. To me there are few games worth buying for it ATM. That will change.

Also, FYI, there have been posts from people that also criticize Nintendo for the pricing scheme. Nintendo is kind of reverting back to the Nintendo we all learned to hate in the 1990's. So, you saying that it's just a love fest here for Nintendo is flat wrong. The Wii is a great system but like the 360 and PS3 it has it's problems and the companies behind these systems also have their problems.

Just get the one you like and be happy. But please feel free to post counter opinions here. I do and the discussion is fun. But know that there are many people that also agree that the Wii isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I'm one of those people that is perfectly content playing a good game of tetris or another playthrough of Contra on a spare 30 minutes than playing the new stuff. I pretty much play everything I can. I even play C64 games still which makes my wife laugh at me :(

[RickHarrisMaine]

The Wii may indeed be Gamecube 1.5, but think about this: I don't think many games really pushed the original Gamecube to its limits in terms of graphics. And if you've seen a Gamecube on progressive scan, it does look pretty darned good. Look at RE4 for the Cube played on Progressive Scan. That looks about as good as anything out there in my book.

[Poofta!]

hey you know, when you grow older... you start getting hair around your genitals?!

[geneshifter]

hey you know, when you grow older... you start getting hair around your genitals?!

I'm scared :(

[sabre2922]

Seriously man, we all know what your MO is on this board. Just get over it.


also what exactly is my MO Boatofcar? at this forum? tell me I WANT TO FUCKING KNOW!

[Niku-Sama]

i think the wii looks better than the origonal x-box, i fail to see how the graphics make the console still any more though its the games that make it or break it.

[boatofcar]

also what exactly is my MO Boatofcar? at this forum? tell me I WANT TO FUCKING KNOW!

As I told you in my PM, every post you make you defend Sony or attack Nintendo. Until you can get past this you're going to have a hard time finding people who will take what you say seriously.

[UniHamachi]

i fail to see how the graphics make the console still any more though its the games that make it or break it.
But that's a real chicken/egg thing, isn't it? Yes, it's the games. But if you venture outside of Nintendo and a Wii remake of RE4 and Madden, what 3rd party blockbusters franchises have hit the Wii? And even with the sales prowess, what blockbuster 3rd party games have been announced? The fact is, the Wii will never get a Final Fantasy or MGS kind of game because none of the A+ development teams want to work with the Wii. No RE5. No GTA. Just light gun games, mini-game collections, and the occasional gesture based gimmick game. So, unless Nintendo cranks up their output (and they won't -- they want their own franchises to have sales windows), there will only be a new good game every couple of months.

I don't know if Nintendo is looking to seize the opportunity to remain King of the Hill or if they're pinching themselves about how much cash they're making and are content in riding out this money tsunami. But the fact is, the Wii won't last more than a couple of years as the #1 console, so they better be working on Wii2 right now.

[Icarus Moonsight]

From what I understand the reason Kojima is laying the MGS baby to bed is to do new/different projects... on the Wii. Came from a conversation between Shiggy and Kojima that went more or less, something like this;
Shiggy: "Are you working on a game for Wii? I'd like to hear about it."
Hideo: "Unfortunately no. I WANT to, but I have to finish MGS4 first. It is taking up all my time."

If Kojima and his staff isn't AAA then help me get the hell from under this rock please. :)

If you look at the Wii's software situation from a slightly different angle things make a bit more sense. Most developers played wait-and-see and now with the Wii's surprising success they are cranking out "crap", ports and quick me-too titles as a placeholder for sales on the platform until more substancial games are ready for retail. Speaks less of the quality of the console and more to the trauma and WTFness the disruption caused the industry. Late 08 through 09 should yeild some gems for the system. About the same time frame that the PS3 is supposed to rear-up and demand a responce. It will be interesting, perhaps as interesting as the Genesis/Snes years. Which is great for us right? :)

[UniHamachi]

I wouldn't consider a passing (and probably polite) comment between Miyamoto and Kojima as confirmation of any game, especially when the most concrete thing said was, "I want to". No concept, no nothing.

Is that's all you got?

I don't mean to be snide, but the truth is, if developers were serious about making good, substantial games for the Wii, we would already have some sort of announcements for development by now. It's still going to take a year to make someting of real value -- that there's really nothing announced in the pipeline means that either a) EVERYONE is being really secretive for some reason, or b) there ISN'T anything in the pipeline.

What speaks volumes is that the Japanese developers look at the lopsided sales data and still want to put their big franchises on the PS3. 360 sales in Japan are poor, so I can understand their lack of support, but the Wii? They just don't want to. Or at least, they just want to make PS3 games more.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm not claiming a confirmation of anything. Only connecting dots, albeit vague ones. Kojima did show more than just a passing interest in Wii IIRC. Even commenting on it in a positive, enthusiastic way whenever put to it. Could just be not wanting to burn any bridges, who knows for sure? As of right now it only boils down to supposition. He could be just sick of working on Metal Gear. Secrecy is a possibility when it comes to Wii developement. Being new and fresh, if your idea is "the one" then you don't want your work to be coped and be beat to market with it.

It's just MHO that the Wii's capabilities are undersold. Tech specs only being a part of the formula. The Wii's intangible strengths could be vast, deep and the difference that brings them back to the top of the heap. Time will tell.

I'll tell you right off that my personal pick each hardware cycle has not been the top system... not a one (my dad picked the 2600... I was still too young to like/dislike anything other than strained green beans). I have picked the Wii this go and that doesn't portent the best outcome for it if my pattern is repeated. No matter how the Wii's fate plays out it will have an lasting impact. Whether it's positive or negative is not up to us.

Yup, that's all I got.

Side note: I love light gun games. Which is a huge plus on the Wii's side for me. If Sega ever even breaks wind about HotD or Virtual Cop (compilation or new title in series) on Wii I would have to offer up my first born in payment. LOL

[boatofcar]

If you look at the Wii's software situation from a slightly different angle things make a bit more sense. Most developers played wait-and-see and now with the Wii's surprising success they are cranking out "crap", ports and quick me-too titles as a placeholder for sales on the platform until more substancial games are ready for retail. Speaks less of the quality of the console and more to the trauma and WTFness the disruption caused the industry. Late 08 through 09 should yeild some gems for the system. About the same time frame that the PS3 is supposed to rear-up and demand a responce. It will be interesting, perhaps as interesting as the Genesis/Snes years. Which is great for us right? :)

That's one hell of an optimistic attitude you've got there, I'll give you that :)

[Icarus Moonsight]

It's totally new to me... I'm usually a pessimist. Probably from being a Sega die hard most my gaming life. LOL

[djbeatmongrel]

Ok I'm going to respond to every post with one statement for all.

Who the fuck cares? If it were about graphics and power we'd be a fucking PC gaming forum (look at my computer specs in my sig, my E-penis is 1.5 times the size of yours).

The fact of the matter is that the Wii is now the largest selling console worldwide and we need to respect that whether you like it or not. Expect more companies to put out strong 3rd party titles for the Wii because of this but still stay alert on what is going on with the PS3 and 360. There's room in todays market for all three consoles to be viable.

For the actual adults in this thread, enjoy your damn next gen system of choice and shut the hell up. For the children in the thread, stop trying to argue that your Jurassic Park lunch box kicks more ass than his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles one because you both have fucking peanut butter and jelly sandwiches inside.

[Bluteg]

Ok I'm going to respond to every post with one statement for all.

Who the fuck cares? If it were about graphics and power we'd be a fucking PC gaming forum (look at my computer specs in my sig, my E-penis is 1.5 times the size of yours).

The fact of the matter is that the Wii is now the largest selling console worldwide and we need to respect that whether you like it or not. Expect more companies to put out strong 3rd party titles for the Wii because of this but still stay alert on what is going on with the PS3 and 360. There's room in todays market for all three consoles to be viable.

For the actual adults in this thread, enjoy your damn next gen system of choice and shut the hell up. For the children in the thread, stop trying to argue that your Jurassic Park lunch box kicks more ass than his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles one because you both have fucking peanut butter and jelly sandwiches inside.

In reality us 20 somethings grew up with TMNT and JP. I'm as hard core gamer as there gets but the Wii is just a gimmick to me; wow Nintendo creates a console thats not HD and limits its graphic ability. It sells like crack on a dark alley because it attracts non gamers. Crazy bitches want to wave their arms around because of it.

[Icarus Moonsight]

...you both have fucking peanut butter and jelly sandwiches inside.

If it's not 1080pb and lossless jelly mom can goto hell if she thinks I am eating this crap. LOL

[whoisKeel]

which one has teh more bits?

[SkiDragon]

I think the Wii is a capable enough system if developers actually tried to innovative things with the controller, or at least tried to make solid games. It seems like the vast majority of games for the system are cheap ports and gimmicky things. The Wii's "new audience", however new they may be, seem to be buying enough copies to make the developers some money, but in the long term it's a bad thing.

[boatofcar]

I think the Wii is a capable enough system if developers actually tried to innovative things with the controller, or at least tried to make solid games. It seems like the vast majority of games for the system are cheap ports and gimmicky things. The Wii's "new audience", however new they may be, seem to be buying enough copies to make the developers some money, but in the long term it's a bad thing.

Oh come now, since when has any company thought about the long term when times were good in the short? As long as Wii owners keep buying crap games, then developers aren't going to allocate any more money to fund better ones.

[Rob2600]

Boatofcar and SkiDragon, I think you're both forgetting the constant stream of garbage games that were released for the original PlayStation...I worked at a video game store and we'd get in at least one or two worthless, horrendous PlayStation games every few days (Irritating Stick, Dukes of Hazzard II, Flintstones Bedrock Bowling, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, Spice World, Miss Spider's Tea Party, Teletubbies, Spec Ops: Stealth Patrol, Spec Ops: Ranger Elite, Razor Freestyle Scooter, 3 Xtreme, etc.)...and yet, it's considered one of the best video game consoles of all time.

[boatofcar]

Boatofcar and SkiDragon, I think you're both forgetting the constant stream of garbage games that were released for the original PlayStation...I worked at a video game store and we'd get in at least one or two worthless, horrendous PlayStation games every few days (Irritating Stick, Dukes of Hazzard II, Flintstones Bedrock Bowling, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, Spice World, Miss Spider's Tea Party, Teletubbies, Spec Ops: Stealth Patrol, Spec Ops: Ranger Elite, Razor Freestyle Scooter, 3 Xtreme, etc.)...and yet, it's considered one of the best video game consoles of all time.

Unfortunately, the hit-to-miss ratio of titles for the Wii is a lot smaller than for the Playstation. Outside of first party development, the Wii doesn't have a lot of quality titles as of yet. Once again, until 3rd party developers notice their crap titles aren't selling, they will 1)put more funding into making better games or 2)stop developing games for the Wii altogether.

[Rob2600]

Unfortunately, the hit-to-miss ratio of titles for the Wii is a lot smaller than for the Playstation.

Give it time. The Wii hasn't even been out a year.

Again, how many amazing games were released during the PlayStation, PlayStation 2, or Xbox 360's first 10 months?

[Rob2600]

Here's new article on www.next-gen.biz:

"Monday, 01 October 2007

The Nintendo Wii manhandled the rival PlayStation 3 in Japan during the fiscal first half, according to Famitsu publisher Enterbrain.

During the 26 weeks of the April-September period, Nintendo sold around 1.6 million Wiis, besting the more expensive PS3 by more than four to one, Reuters reported Monday.

The PS3, which launched around the same time as the Wii, sold 385,492 units during the same period.

A separate report from Thomson Financial cited another part of the Enterbrain survey that found that the similarly hot Nintendo DS handheld helped expand the Japanese videogame market 21.7 percent year-on-year to 292.8 billion yen during the fiscal half.

The DS sold nearly 3.5 million units in Japan during the period, while the PSP-1000 and PSP-2000 models sold just over 1 million combined.

Nintendo expects to ship 16.5 million Nintendo Wiis globally for its fiscal year ending March 2008.

Almost a year after the November 2006 launch of the Wii, demand remains high, with Nintendo struggling to keep up. Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime recently said that the company will definitely fall short of consumer demand during the busy holiday season."

Report: Wii Trounces PS3 in Japan (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7335&Itemid=2)

[UniHamachi]

Just off the top of my head, Twisted Metal, Resident Evil, Wipeout, NFL Gameday, and Tekken all came out within the 10 months, and Battle Arena Toshinden, Jet Moto, and Destruction Derby were very popular and pushed a lot of systems (although not that great in retrospect). I remember everyone creaming their jeans over BAT and Gameday was so good it made EA cancel their PSX Madden that year. So you basically have a great game in various genres. Most of those games were by Sony owned dev houses, but there is no Tekken or Resident Evil kind of 3rd party killer app on the Wii (yes, there is RE4, but no one is buying the Wii just to play it since it was already released on the GC and the PS2). And there isn't really anything announced that leads me to believe a game like will come out next year.

[boatofcar]

Give it time. The Wii hasn't even been out a year.

Again, how many amazing games were released during the PlayStation, PlayStation 2, or Xbox 360's first 10 months?

That's true, I'll give you that. I just wonder what will motivate developers to put more effort into making quality titles when anything for Wii right now seems to be selling well.

[rbudrick]

My understanding was Nintendo admitted this from practically day 1, so I fail to see the relevance of this thread. Shit, they used it as a selling point to developers for chrissakes.

-Rob

[UniHamachi]

Shit, they used it as a selling point to developers for chrissakes.

But isn't that part of the problem? Imagine you're a developer and you want to make the biggest, baddest, best looking games. You get the dev kit for the 360, the one for the PS3, and then you basically get an 11 page handout from Nintendo saying, "It's basically a gamecube".

The bottom line is that this industry runs as more on testosterone than good business sense. Hype and "my dick is bigger" marketing loom large. So most of the devs will ignore Cube 2.0 and move their multi-million dollar dev budgets to the 360 or PS3. Is this a good move business-wise? No, but I think the the prevailing attitude is, "let the other dev team make the 'practical' game. I want to make cutting edge stuff." The problem is, anyone making anything worth shit begs out of the Wii.

If you don't think that's a problem to the future viability of the Wii, then yes, this thread is irrelevant.

[Rob2600]

The bottom line is that this industry runs as more on testosterone than good business sense. ... So most of the devs will ignore Cube 2.0 and move their multi-million dollar dev budgets to the 360 or PS3. Is this a good move business-wise? No, but I think the the prevailing attitude is, "let the other dev team make the 'practical' game. I want to make cutting edge stuff."

I'm not sure about that. Yes, third-parties want to make cutting-edge software, but it seems like the least powerful hardware usually gets pushed the furthest each generation.

As I've posted before, third-parties supported the NES more than the SMS, which was more powerful. Third-parties supported the Game Boy more than the Lynx, Turbo Express, and Game Gear, which were more powerful. Third-parties supported the PlayStation more than the Nintendo 64, which was more powerful. Third-parties supported the PlayStation 2 more than the Xbox and GameCube, which were more powerful. Third-parties are supporting the Nintendo DS more than the PSP, which is more powerful.

By your logic, third-party developers would have flocked to the Dreamcast in 1999 so they could make cutting-edge games with amazing graphics, but they didn't. Many third-parties ignored the Dreamcast and continued to make games for the old, weaker PlayStation instead.

[UniHamachi]

The difference between any of those pairs you mention is dwarfed by the difference between the Wii and it's competition. The Wii is a mild upgrade to the Xbox and PS2 graphics-wise and doesn't hold a candle to the 360 or PS3. The Dreamcast was nice, yes -- but it wasn't crazy better than the PSX. It's like the GBA vs. the PSP. Or the Genesis vs the NES. And while the Dreamcast looked nice and sold well at launch, the developers went gaga over the PS2 and developed for that instead.

[Rob2600]

The Dreamcast was nice, yes -- but it wasn't crazy better than the PSX.

Really? The House of the Dead 2, Virtua Tennis, Shenmue, Jet Grind Radio, Quake III Arena, Ferrari F355 Challenge, Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Metropolis Street Racer, NBA 2K, NFL 2K, Phantasy Star Online, and Virtua Fighter 3TB weren't "crazy better" than what the PlayStation could do?

[UniHamachi]

All but a few things on that list are first party games. And yes, do those look a lot better than your run of the mill PSX game? Yes. But crazy better than Tekken 3 or MGS or FFVIII? Even so, the difference between, say, Heavenly Sword and RE4 is staggering, and RE4 is one of the best looking games on the Wii. I'm not going to argue about which is the better game (obviously), but note that I had to rack my brain for a Wii example, and the best I could do was a GC port. I guess BioShock vs. Carnival Games is patently unfair?

[Rob2600]

do those look a lot better than your run of the mill PSX game? Yes. But crazy better than Tekken 3 or MGS or FFVIII?

Yes, regarding technical power, Virtua Fighter 3TB, Soulcalibur, and Dead or Alive 2 on the Dreamcast are "crazy better" than Tekken 3 on the PlayStation, Shenmue and Resident Evil- Code: Veronica are "crazy better" than Metal Gear Solid, and Phantasy Star Online, Grandia 2, and Skies of Arcadia are "crazy better" than Final Fantasy VIII...as they should be. After all, the Dreamcast was released four years after the PlayStation.

My point was that many third-party developers didn't instantly flock to the more powerful Dreamcast. In 1999, even after the Dreamcast was released, many third-party developers continued to develop games for the older, weaker PlayStation instead. Graphical power didn't matter.

Hence, the Xbox 360 and/or the PlayStation 3 won't automatically outsell the Wii just because they're more powerful. Again, the most powerful consoles are usually not the most popular each generation and the least powerful consoles usually are.


I guess BioShock vs. Carnival Games is patently unfair?

Yes, that would be an unfair comparison. :) So is comparing first-generation Wii games to second-generation Xbox 360 games, which people seem to be doing in general.

[Melf]

As I've posted before, third-parties supported the NES more than the SMS, which was more powerful. Third-parties supported the Game Boy more than the Lynx, Turbo Express, and Game Gear, which were more powerful.

This had nothing at all to do with 3rd party preference of the NES hardware and everything to do with Nintendo's iron-clad licensing agreements. If you made games for the NES you basically couldn't publish for any other platform. This finally ended when Nintendo was taken to court for monopolistic practices. Notice how once the license argreements were killed, sales for the Sega Genesis rose? It wasn't a coincidence.


Third-parties supported the PlayStation more than the Nintendo 64, which was more powerful.

3rd parties were basically kicked to the curb by Nintendo's bone-headed decision to stick with cartridges. See: Square's Final Fantasy VII.


Third-parties supported the PlayStation 2 more than the Xbox and GameCube, which were more powerful. Third-parties are supporting the Nintendo DS more than the PSP, which is more powerful.

Playstation 2 benefitted from brand loyalty, much to the detriment of the excellent Dreamcast library and the Xbox's great online set up. The same thing can be said about the DS. Nintendo has owned the handheld business since 1989, and everyone knows that games made for its portable will reach the biggest audience. It certainly hasn't been because of the touch screen, or we'd see more games using it. I'm also inclined to think that companies are publishing for the Wii because of how much it has sold and not because of its motion-control scheme. That would really suck in the long run if it turns out to be true.


By your logic, third-party developers would have flocked to the Dreamcast in 1999 so they could make cutting-edge games with amazing graphics, but they didn't. Many third-parties ignored the Dreamcast and continued to make games for the old, weaker PlayStation instead.

Dude, you're comparing apples to oranges. Sega didn't just burn its bridges with 3rd parties, it nuked them from orbit. There's no way on God's green Earth that companies would choose the gasping DC over the sales juggernaut that was everything Playstation. Nintendo has never been in that position.

[UniHamachi]

I still think the gulf between, say the 360 and the Wii is bigger than Dreamcast vs. PSX. I'd say much bigger. And I think the devs wanted to wait for the PS2 instead of making Dreamcast games (being burned by the Saturn did not help matters). Right now, it's only Wii, PS3, or 360.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UniHamachi
I guess BioShock vs. Carnival Games is patently unfair?

Yes, that would be an unfair comparison. So is comparing first-generation Wii games to second-generation Xbox 360 games, which people seem to be doing in general.
Carnival Games vs. Perfect Dark Zero? :p

[Melf]

Excite Truck vs. Project Gotham Racing 3 or Motorstorm?

[Rob2600]

Carnival Games vs. Perfect Dark Zero? :p

Better. :) Seriously though, how about Perfect Dark Zero vs. Metroid Prime 3? Any opinions?

[UniHamachi]

Metal Slug Anthology vs. Heavenly Sword.

BTW, Metroid has great art direction, but the graphics themselevs were very Gamecube looking at times, and the frequent aliasing was annoying.

A couple of the bosses were OUTSTANDING. Monegar and Helios were totally awesome.

[esquire]

Better. :) Seriously though, how about Perfect Dark Zero vs. Metroid Prime 3? Any opinions?

I thought we were talking 3rd party developers not in-house?

For the 360:
Quake IV vs. Red Steel
GUN vs. Far Cry
Call of Duty 2 vs. Call of Duty 3

Better yet
Need for Speed Most Wanted and Ridge Racer 6 vs. GT Pro Series and Monster 4x4 World Circuit

For the PS3:
Resistance vs. Red Steel

Ridge Racer 7 and Formula One Championship Edition vs. GT Pro Series and Monster 4x4 World Circuit

[UniHamachi]

Yes, 3rd party. I got side-tracked.

BTW, the fact that 3rd party Wii games look like ass is even more discouraging considering the 5 years experience with the GC should have well prepared them for the Wii. And yet, no one outside of Nintendo has come close to RE4, and that's really a GC game. So 3rd party devs are not even trying.

[Garry Silljo]

Carnival Games vs. Perfect Dark Zero? :p

I'll take Carnival Games. I'm not into FPS at all.