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meancode
09-27-2007, 03:03 PM
Gamereviewgod and I are having an issue with XBLA games on our Elite, specifically, Sega XBLA games. To better explain, please read this email I sent to Microsoft:
Hi,

Tonight I talked to XBL tech support, for about 2.5 hours, at least. Granted, a lot of that was on hold. I talked to two people who were absolutely clueless. One even told me to make sure the disc was clean, when I clearly stated this was a XBLA game, and it was on the hard disk. The third guy I talked to was more help and went through a few troubleshooting options. He finally connected me to the forth guy, who was the last person I talked to tonight.

Matt tells me this same problem is happening to him, with another Sega game, Streets of Rade 2, though I do not know if it s the exact same circumstances.

I bought a hell of a lot of XBLA games on my old console. I transfered these all to my Elite. They all work fine, everything but Sonic the Hedgehog.

In the Dashboard it is listed as a full game, as it allows me to view my achievement detail, and my friends leaderboard. But when I get into the game it is a trial. I can download the full game via the in-game menu UNLOCK FULL GAME. Once I do that, it is a full game but only for that game session. When I quit and come back to it later, it is again a trial game.

Again, this is the ONLY game this happens too, and I have checked a large number of games I bought on my old console, and they all work just fine on my new console. (I have not systematically checked every one).

The game does exist in Memory > Hard Drive > Games. I did the Y,X,X,LB,RB,X,X thing, I have deleted the game completely from my hard drive and re-downloaded it, and the final thing the tech had me do (after I got sent to a higher up) was delete and recover my Gamertag. I am waiting for that to finish right now, it is taking forever.

I then have to go through my download history and download Sonic again, which considering how long ago that was, that is gonna take a lot of time to flip through.

This last tech. told me that if this does not work, that there is nothing else they can do, because I "voluntarily" upgraded to an Elite.

What I do not understand is this. This is ONLY happening to Sonic the Hedgehog, and I am on Live, this is not a matter of me not being on Live (which I understand). Is this bad coding on Sega XBLA games? I did not buy any other Sega games on my old console. I have Sonic 2 but that I bought on my Elite.

I was told that every time a game starts or you quit and go back to the Dashboard, you are disconnected from live, and that is why Sonic is reverting to a trial, because this is no longer the same hardware serial number. If that were the case, then why are the 50-some other XBLA games that I bought on my old system working just fine on my Elite?

And why can't someone just re-assign Sonic to my new Elite. I just want to be able to play it without having to download it EVERY TIME I start a session of Sonic.

Please, give me some answers. This is absolutely ridiculous, and is not fair to the customer. The game costs $5, if I could pay for it again, just so it would be associated to this hardware, I would. But what happens when Microsoft releases the 250 GB hard drive (or whatever) and I use the transfer cable, which is supposed to transfer the license to the new hardware? Will I again go through this crap?

I am really frustrated here, but I am trying to be reasonable. I do not think it is unreasonable to have my XBLA games to work on my new Elite, something I paid a lot of money for, something I am paying $50 a year for XBL Gold for.

OK, that took a while. But my Gamertag is recovered. Sonic the Hedgehog is not on my hard drive, neither are the game save files I had. I re-downloaded Sonic the Hedgehog. It shows as a full game, I can see that I have six achievements; see my friends leaderboard. When I hit Play Now it is still a Trial Game, until I go to UNLOCK FULL GAME again, of course.

What gives? Seriously, what gives? Am I screwed here, in other words, am I being screwed over by Microsoft for buying a second Xbox 360?

For this little experiment I lost all my game saves for Sonic, and I am right back where I was at the beginning of the night. I could really use some answers right now.

Many Thanks,

Ken

And this is what I got back from them:
Hey Ken,

Iím really sorry to hear youíve been having a tough time with your Sonic game. I can totally understand how frustrating that would be. Iím asking around to see who I can report this issue to, and to see if there are any solutions for something like this.

If nothing else, itís only 3 days until Halo, right? J

I managed to beg a points card off a co-worker, so maybe you could try re-purchasing the game.

Hereís 1600 points:

****-****-****-****-****

Have a great weekend man!



I replied again but have not gotten a response, yet.

Matt and I have come to the somewhat educated guess that this has to do with Sega XBLA games, so I am asking my Sega rep about this too. Matt is having the same exact problem with Streets of Rage 2 and Golden Axe, both of which he purchased on his Premium before he bought his Elite. He bought Sonic 2 after he got his Elite, and has no problem with that one.

A friend has heard of this problem before. I need to get more details from him on it. My question to you all is: have you heard of this problem, or do you or someone you know have this problem?

Thanks,

Ken

mailman187666
09-27-2007, 03:20 PM
Its always something with the 360 isn't it. Red Rings, freezing, parts dying. I can't believe they said there is nothing you can do because you voluntarily upgraded to an elite. In other words, its another "thanks for the money now go fuck yourself." I love the games for 360, it is a fun machine that is capable of some great gaming, but damn they really like milking the shit out of thier customers and throwing the middle finger in thier face.

heybtbm
09-27-2007, 03:46 PM
I just transferred all my data from my 20 gig Premium to my 120 gig Elite last night. I'll try Golden Axe tonight to see if it works. It's the only Sega game I've bought from XBLA (crossing fingers).

s1lence
09-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Wonder if anyone had had that problem on replacement 360's either.

Leo_A
09-27-2007, 04:46 PM
You won't accomplish anything talking to their support, I'd go directly to Digital Eclipse and talk to them. They have been very receptive to emails and questions from me in the past, and one of their employees thats in the credits for much of their work as producer or whatever posts at AtariAge (Though I haven't seen him around in a while) that you might be able to contact that you'll find by searching for a thread on Atari Anthology among other stuff there. They just might be pleased that you've pointed out this flaw in their work that has been missed by MS certification if you can confirm this is a issue with Sega XBLA titles, they just might take a look into it for you.

I've had better luck going to the developers with Xbox Live issues who know who to go to resolve problems even if they're out of their control and it's a MS issue. I've had good luck with Bizarre Creations and several others this way. That support tech won't be able to do anything beyond bribe you to go away, have you delete and redownload content, and recover your gamertag.

meancode
09-27-2007, 05:08 PM
s1lence - replacement 360s are NO PROBLEM! If it was a replacement, and the licence did not get transfered properly to the new hardware before it was sent back to you (that is what they do) then they could have transfered the license for me. But because I "voluntarily" upgraded, they won't do it.

And yes, I asked the tech. a few times so I got the record strait.

And I have to argue with the stance of not accomplishing anything talking to support. Once you get to level 3 support, which I did that night I called, I was actually talking to someone in North America, and he was able to answer all my questions without hesitation or having to look it up/as a super. So yea, the 4th person I talked to was not a joke, and answered many of my questions, even if he could not fix my problem.

I hadn't thought of talking to Digital Eclipse, I will give that a shot. Thanks.

I also do not know how you are supposed to re-purchase a game on XBLA. Microsoft never answered that question either.

s1lence
09-27-2007, 05:40 PM
Well I was just wondering because they didnt do that for me with my 360 when mine failed.

I don't think you can "repurchase" it, because thats tagged to your gamertag as an item that was bought.

meancode
09-27-2007, 05:45 PM
From what I was told by the level 3 tech. I talked to, they should have transfered the license for you. Because, you know, it wasn't voluntary.

I am pretty sure it is not possible to re-purchase the game on the same Gamertag -- something Microsoft has not given me a definitive answer on yet. My best guess is that would have to use a different account on my 360 to purchase the game. Of course then it would be registered to a different gamertag, how convienent is that?

s1lence
09-27-2007, 05:55 PM
From what I was told by the level 3 tech. I talked to, they should have transfered the license for you. Because, you know, it wasn't voluntary.

I am pretty sure it is not possible to re-purchase the game on the same Gamertag -- something Microsoft has not given me a definitive answer on yet. My best guess is that would have to use a different account on my 360 to purchase the game. Of course then it would be registered to a different gamertag, how convienent is that?

I ran into the problem that I bought some of the first live games on one account and then made my Mightymango my primary. Xbox died , put the hdd on the new box all the games that I used to be able to play without a problem on the mango account wouldn't go out of trial. If I logged in with the other account, poof worked fine. The whole live needed for the arcade games is REALLY annoying.

meancode
09-27-2007, 06:20 PM
It is, the DRM is way too restrictive to the people who actually pay for the games.

meancode
09-27-2007, 08:56 PM
This just in, from Microsoft:


Hereís what I was told:



The Fix:



Completely sign out of Xbox LIVE (unplug your Ethernet cable or Wireless Adapter to be 100%).

Go to your SYTEM blade on the far right of your Dashboard.

Select MEMORY.

Select the storage device housing your arcade downloads (ie. Hard Drive).

Select each arcade title you are having trouble with and delete.

Turn off the machine.

Restart your console and sign into Xbox Live under the same Gamertag you used to originally purchase the content.

Go to MARKETPLACE and download each game you deleted.

Now, each game should have full access while offline AND while signed in under other Gamertags created on your original console.

That should fix it.

Let me know if that works man!
I am not home yet, but will be soon. I will report if it worked or not.

Ken

meancode
09-28-2007, 12:06 AM
It Didnt Fucking Work.

s1lence
09-28-2007, 08:32 AM
That sucks that no one seems to have a fix.

Wolfrider31
09-28-2007, 09:26 AM
It really seems like they are making this much harder than it has to be. Hmm... these issues with the 360 that always seem to crop up really make me nervous about buying one. Hmm...

heybtbm
09-28-2007, 09:26 AM
Golden Axe update:

Last night I tried Golden Axe on my (newly transferred hard drive) Elite 360.

When I started Golden Axe it was the trial version. I clicked on "Unlock Full Version" and it took me to the Golden Axe download window. Since I've already bought the full version, both downloads (trial game and full game) had the "check mark". I chose to download the full version again. It downloaded in 4 seconds. I then went back to XBLA and started Golden Axe. The "Unlock Full Version" disappeared and I had my full version back again. It played like normal...no problems.

However, when I exited XBLA and then started it up again, Golden Axe was back to the trial version. I suppose whenever I want to play Golden Axe, I'll have to download the full version and immediately go to the XBLA menu and play the game. Annoying, but at least the full version still "works".

This is the only Sega XBLA game I have, so YMMV.

meancode
09-28-2007, 09:55 AM
Golden Axe update:

Last night I tried Golden Axe on my (newly transferred hard drive) Elite 360.

When I started Golden Axe it was the trial version. I clicked on "Unlock Full Version" and it took me to the Golden Axe download window. Since I've already bought the full version, both downloads (trial game and full game) had the "check mark". I chose to download the full version again. It downloaded in 4 seconds. I then went back to XBLA and started Golden Axe. The "Unlock Full Version" disappeared and I had my full version back again. It played like normal...no problems.

However, when I exited XBLA and then started it up again, Golden Axe was back to the trial version. I suppose whenever I want to play Golden Axe, I'll have to download the full version and immediately go to the XBLA menu and play the game. Annoying, but at least the full version still "works".

This is the only Sega XBLA game I have, so YMMV.

Yep. This is exactly how Sonic works for me, and how Streets of Rage 2 and Golden Axe works for Matt. Accepting game invites will be a bitch in Golden Axe.

Thanks for the update, this adds more fuel to the fire.

I will get to the end of this.

And BTW, I sent an email off to Foundation 9 (Digital Eclipse). If I do not get a response in a couple days, I will call them.

unwinddesign
09-28-2007, 10:47 AM
It's really not a huge deal. It takes all of like 10 seconds to redownload the game and then launch it again. It has nothing to do with Microsoft milking you for more money (as one person suggested). It's DE's fault for programming them all that way.

The real crime with the Sega XBLA arcade games is that they all suck. Horribly. And I bought them all except Sonic 2.

Not to be an ass, but in the time you spent writing that email to Microsoft (along with the time spent on the phone), you could have probably launched Sonic through the roundabout method over a hundred times.

meancode
09-28-2007, 11:20 AM
I have launched Sonic through the roundabout way repeatedly, though not a hundred time ;)

It is a huge deal. It is something that needs to be fixed. And this is Microsoft's issue, their DRM is too strict on legit customers. Digital Eclipse has to program it to MS specs. At this point it is only a guess that it is Digital Eclipse that screwed it up. It likely is, but I want to know for certain.

So, say your buddy sends you and invite to play Golden Axe, or Streets of Rage 2. You have to launch the game manually (can't use the invite because as soon as the game starts, it is a trial). Then you have to re-download the full game, then you can accept the invite, and hope your buddy is still waiting in the lobby. That is really convienent and fun times!

Besides, it is the principle of the thing, it should work! No if, ands, or buts about it.

8-bitNesMan
09-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Besides, it is the principle of the thing, it should work! No if, ands, or buts about it.

I agree with this 1000%. They got the "full" version of our money didn't they?

heybtbm
09-28-2007, 01:41 PM
They got the "full" version of our money didn't they?

Exactly.

If the right people hear about the problem, I'm sure it could be easily fixed via an update. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that.

meancode
09-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Just a status update. I have not heard back from digital eclipse, or microsoft. i am drafting an op-ed though. this is crazy.

meancode
10-03-2007, 06:24 PM
And so the saga continues... this from Foundation 9:

Hi Ken,



First of all, Iím sorry youíre having problems and that Microsoft wasnít able to help you. Unfortunately, thereís not much we can do for you either. This appears to be a bug that we were unaware of, and thereís nothing that will fix it except a patch of the game. We do not have the authority to issue a patch on our own. That is something Microsoft and Sega have to decide to do.



Again, Iím sorry we donít have any answers for you either.



Thanks!

Leo_A
10-03-2007, 07:21 PM
Hopefully he takes the initiative to contact Sega about this for you, though I get the impression this is the end of it as far as he's concerned.

meancode
10-03-2007, 11:55 PM
I actually asked that. We will see!

MarioMania
10-05-2007, 01:57 AM
Is this what you have a problem with

http://forums.xbox.com/1159815/ShowPost.aspx

segagamer4life
10-05-2007, 10:52 AM
Hopefully he takes the initiative to contact Sega about this for you, though I get the impression this is the end of it as far as he's concerned.


I wonder if it is a sega issue, though, I mean its clearly M$ drm at play here. I recently swapped my 360 with a new hdmi unit, and kept my existing hard drive, I went to play sonic 2 the other day, and I know at that point it asked me to redownload it, but I didn't bother to go back in and try, I will test this out tonight, I am sure it will act the same as everyone else here. But I think this is clearly a M$ issue, not sega, because they produce the content, M$ looks it down to the device level and sets the DRM.

Leo_A
10-05-2007, 10:56 AM
Typically, XBLA games act fine as long as you're signed into Xbox Live. However, people here are having to actually unlock the game again and download a small update to play their game each time, which isn't normal. That should only happen the first time you unlock a demo into the full game.

Frankie_Says_Relax
10-05-2007, 02:45 PM
While this entire saga is disheartening, I have a quick question -

I've owned about 3 XBOX 360's with various defects and I've kept the same HDD unit through all three of them.

I've never had any issue getting any of my XBLA games to work properly when transferring the HDD unit from console to console.

So, I assume that this issue with "licenses" for purchased games is something that is directly tied to the HDD hardware.

"licenses" for games purchased check to see which HDD and NOT which Console that they were downloaded to, correct?

Or else, I wouldn't be able to play the full version of Streets of Rage 2, which I purchased on a different XBOX 360 console than the one that the HDD is currently attached to.

Leo_A
10-05-2007, 07:01 PM
No

You can play because you're logged on to Xbox Live. The games are linked to your Xbox Live gamertag and your Xbox 360 they were purchased on. You need both to be able to play offline, or at least your gamertag signed on to Live if you're playing on a different system.

Odd that you can play Streets of Rage 2 just fine, are you sure you've played it on a different system? It's only been out for a few weeks.

meancode
10-06-2007, 03:10 PM
No, that is not the issue I am talking about. The issue in that thread is well known issue that you must be online to play XBLA games when you are doing so on different hardware than you originally bought them on. That problem effects everyone who has had to send their 360 in, or upgraded to an Elite.

The Sega XBLA issue is a bug in the coding.

meancode
10-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Nicole (from Foundation 9) was able to tell me (in a phone conversation) three more things: The Elite is different than the Premium (but could not tell me how, but for the programmers, it is a little different), they did not know about the bug I and others are having, and that they could not test on Elite when the games were made. She also told me that all the games were produced at the same time (so to me it would make sense that the bug effects all the Sega XBLA titles, seeing as they were all written using the same engine, same code, etc).

My Sega PR rep changed, and now have emailed the correct person about this saga. I hope they respond with something useful.

Leo_A
06-27-2008, 03:08 AM
Now that there's a DRM fix to associate DLC to replacement consoles, I'd love to hear if this resolved your guys issues.

meancode
06-28-2008, 01:27 PM
My 360 arrived back at home (finally, after a month) yesterday. Sadly I was not home to sign for it. So I must now wait until Monday. But that's OK, I have a few PS3 games to keep me busy over the weekend.

s1lence
06-28-2008, 06:45 PM
Now that there's a DRM fix to associate DLC to replacement consoles, I'd love to hear if this resolved your guys issues.

It did for me, it worked very well.

Leo_A
06-28-2008, 11:37 PM
You never mentioned having this issue with the Sega XBLA titles during this thread when it was active, did your 360 get replaced after this thread went down?

That's what I'm curious about, I have no doubt that it resolves the usual problem of having to be logged into XBL to access your content.

Nice to know this fixed your guys problems then.

meancode
06-29-2008, 06:56 AM
IIRC S1lence has the Sega Classic games, too. I will have my console back Monday, which is great because I will be able to report my findings on our radio show on Tuesday.

s1lence
06-29-2008, 12:35 PM
IIRC S1lence has the Sega Classic games, too. I will have my console back Monday, which is great because I will be able to report my findings on our radio show on Tuesday.

Yeah, it fixed the Sega Classic games and it fixed my Japanese Account as well so I can once again access them from my main account on my main 360. Now maybe I will finish Dracula X off.

meancode
07-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Yes my Sonic issues are gone! Thank the Nines.

digitalpress
07-05-2009, 10:29 AM
A year later, I'm discovering this problem on my 360.

I transferred my hard drive FROM an Elite to a current "Jasper" HDMI unit. Everything works fine except Streets of Rage 2 and Golden Axe. I've tried all of the methods described in this thread but am constantly nagged to "unlock full game" when it is already sitting on the hard drive, re-downloaded and all.

What got things working for you guys exactly?

Leo_A
07-05-2009, 12:28 PM
Use the license transfer tool at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/ and follow the instructions, its corrected this issue for myself and the others in this thread.

Frankie_Says_Relax
07-05-2009, 12:50 PM
Just remember Joe : one manual license transfer per year with absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever!

If your current unit craps out for a non-warranty covered reason and you've used that license tool - if you want to play some of the games on your HD again before the 365 day period is up your only option will be to send it in to MS and pay the repair costs to get a license transfer.

Iron Draggon
07-05-2009, 12:58 PM
oh yeah, digital distribution is the wave of the future... if you wanna drown in a tsunami and not have anything to pass on to your heirs because your flood insurance has an exemption for losses due to waves large enough to break!

PapaStu
07-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Just remember Joe : one manual license transfer per year with absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever!

If your current unit craps out for a non-warranty covered reason and you've used that license tool - if you want to play some of the games on your HD again before the 365 day period is up your only option will be to send it in to MS and pay the repair costs to get a license transfer.

And even if you've got a system that dies and is sent in to MS they don't always do the license transfer that they are supposed to do. Both of my systems that have died, they have not done the license transfer that they said they would do, despite me doing the redownloading and everything they told me to do on the page that was sent back with my refurb'd unit.

s1lence
07-05-2009, 10:11 PM
And even if you've got a system that dies and is sent in to MS they don't always do the license transfer that they are supposed to do. Both of my systems that have died, they have not done the license transfer that they said they would do, despite me doing the redownloading and everything they told me to do on the page that was sent back with my refurb'd unit.


QFT, they never transfer the license over. The DRM tool is the only answer. I'm waiting for my japanese account to hit that point again so I don't have to sign in with both of my accounts.

digitalpress
07-05-2009, 10:18 PM
Use the license transfer tool at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/ and follow the instructions, its corrected this issue for myself and the others in this thread.

Thank you!

heybtbm
07-05-2009, 11:45 PM
Ah, that reminds me...it's been more than a year now. Time to transfer those licenses again! Digital downloads FTL.

RPG_Fanatic
07-06-2009, 09:42 AM
Use the license transfer tool at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox360/licensemigration/ and follow the instructions, its corrected this issue for myself and the others in this thread.

Thanks for the heads up \\^_^/ My Sega games haven't worked for a while, now they do again. :dance: