History in the Making? Women and the Wii

[TNTPLUST]

Caught this in the news today

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/japan/article2629649.ece

So do you think that women will change the face of gaming? Will this make gaming better or worse? What does this mean for Nintendo? Is it the end of Hardcore games on this platform? Sound off.

[NE146]

I've been playing video games non-stop since the 70's... and I still don't know wtf hardcore gaming is supposed to be..

[FantasiaWHT]

Apparently, women are the new hardcore gamers

[TNTPLUST]

Caught this in the news today

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/japan/article2629649.ece

So do you think that women will change the face of gaming? Will this make gaming better or worse? What does this mean for Nintendo? Is it the end of Hardcore games on this platform? Sound off.
You know I dont disagree with your question on that at all. I'm an old timer too but this topic comes up a lot in class. I teach games programming to teenagers in a junior high setting. I think for those who grew up on older consoles have a harder time seeing this issue because our games were simpler due to technological limitations. Games from the 70's and 80's weren't targeted to a particular sex. IMHO as the technology progressed though and graphics became better and storage became larger software companies started to target certain demographics (read teenage boys). I think that standard is changing now as more women and older gamers fill the ranks. As to what generation Y denotes as a hardcore game I think you would have to ask one of them. For that matter what is a casual game. I'm interested in that too.

[geneshifter]

Apparently, women are the new hardcore gamers

Well, I know a lot of "hardcore" women, LOL.

From what I've observed, it's really been about getting older folks of both genders playing games. For example, my mom and dad. I have NEVER, EVER seen them play a video game. I showed them my Wii and they bought one right away and even invite people over to play the thing. They also buy the games as they come out. They are in their 50's. Absolutely shocking :)

[DJGeki]

Everything runs in cycles. What we considered to be the best game of yesteryear (let's say "Pacman" for argument's sake), may be considered 'hardcore' by some of the people that used to play it back in the 80s, including myself, and many people still love the original version. However, today it's considered a casual game if you go by the standards on Xbox Live Arcade.

My point is that nothing will kill hardcore gaming. There will always be niche games considered hardcore, and there will always be niche games considered casual. Likewise, big name, high-dollar games can go either way as well.

Tetris was THE hardcore puzzle game...remember when it was only on the Gameboy (the first version of the system)? Again, using XBLA as an example platform, the game has been re-engineered to work for what the developers considered a 'larger' audience. To me, it just looks like they made Tetris with aquarium backgrounds, and it turns me off completely.

There will soon be genres of games suited to every age, gender and walk of life...just like Manga are in Japan. I just hope we move more towards getting indie games published and accepted. That's where the innovation lies.

Maybe innovation is the new hardcore...

[digitalpress]

I will add this:

My wife rarely... RARELY gets involved in this generation of gaming. Yet she's quick to say "yes" to any game on the Wii.

My father and his wife have little to no gaming experience. My father's role in gaming as I grew up was "try to do what the game doesn't want you to do", like turning the car around and driving against traffic in Daytona USA, for example. And yet, when introduced to the Wii at my house, both of them were clearly enjoying the experience. In our last session, my wife "bowled over" a glass of Merlot :)

Without really reading the full details I'll still add that it's the NON hardcore gamer that loves the Wii. Suddenly, non-gamers feel "involved" and they clearly "get it". It's fun to watch.

[DJGeki]

@DigitalPress: Just to point out your point, what you said doesn't mean that hardcore gaming is going by the wayside. It's that a new group of people are getting involved in gaming that never would have picked up a controller prior to the Wii. That was Nintendo's manifesto for the Wii when it was still the "Revolution", and they quite obviously succeeded.

[TurboGenesis]

Nintendo gets an A+ for achieving the very thing they set out to do with the Wii. My friends wives and their sisters are love playing the Wii. These people are non gamers and are scoff at my video game collection. They used to tease me about how I am grown man playing "kiddie" video games. But on New Years Eve, these very people are have the time of their lives playing Wii Sports. I continue to hear these types of stories when it concerns the Nintendo Wii.

My wife on the other hand is already enjoy playing video games. She spends most of her time playing PlayStation 2 (RPG's) and Nintendo DS (currently playing Zelda Phantom Hourglass)

[Fuzzball24]

Personally, I don't like it. There is a girl in my history class who loves Guitar Hero, and others who play ONLY stuff like that and the Wii. It's stupid. I prefer niche communities...I would cringe to see the gaming industry to become a "fun for everybody" thing.

[DJGeki]

@Fuzzball24: Why is that? You prefer low-budget games? That's not a bad thing, I'm just curious. Keep in mind that if you take away the large fan-base, game budgets get smaller.

Game communities (like this one) will rarely be more than niche. Even as large as DP is, with all of the people who post regularly, it doesn't seem to dilute the voice each person has. I especially don't think you have to worry about classic games becoming too mainstream. There's a huge back-catalog of history and games you MUST have played for that to happen. It's a pretty exclusive group.

Guitar Hero is an obvious (community) exception because it reached a massive amount of different people that think differently about games, as well as those that already love them. However, games like Halo have a massive community, as do BioWare games, and I'd hate for those communities to go away. So, I respectfully disagree with your opinion ^_^ If I can continue to play games that are as good as Half-Life, Street Fighter, Gradius (and all its many clones), I'm okay with communities being large since I'm still being catered to.

[whoisKeel]

Everything runs in cycles. What we considered to be the best game of yesteryear (let's say "Pacman" for argument's sake), may be considered 'hardcore' by some of the people that used to play it back in the 80s, including myself, and many people still love the original version. However, today it's considered a casual game if you go by the standards on Xbox Live Arcade.

My point is that nothing will kill hardcore gaming. There will always be niche games considered hardcore, and there will always be niche games considered casual. Likewise, big name, high-dollar games can go either way as well.

Tetris was THE hardcore puzzle game...remember when it was only on the Gameboy (the first version of the system)? Again, using XBLA as an example platform, the game has been re-engineered to work for what the developers considered a 'larger' audience. To me, it just looks like they made Tetris with aquarium backgrounds, and it turns me off completely.

There will soon be genres of games suited to every age, gender and walk of life...just like Manga are in Japan. I just hope we move more towards getting indie games published and accepted. That's where the innovation lies.

Maybe innovation is the new hardcore...

I dunno. I'd have to say that Tetris is a classic textbook example of a casual game if there ever was one. Not that I even buy into that term. Every mother and grandfather played that game for the gameboy. Without that game, you could make a genuine argument that the Gameboy would have failed. And, no, Tetris was never Gameboy only by any stretch of imagination.

I think you could even argue that Tetris single handedly launched the casual Flash-based puzzle genre.

I strongly disagree with the statement


Maybe innovation is the new hardcore...


Video games were always designed with everyone in mind. Was Pong not casual enough for you. Was Ms Pac-Man not casual enough? Was Super Mario Bros. not casual enough? Is Katamari Damacy not casual enough for you? Is Wii Sports not casual enough for you.

Exactly what "hardcore" games have been so innovative in the last 5 years? I'll give you GTA3. After that it gets a bit tricky. Good luck.

[Sothy]

I did intend to return to my classic avatar from the Christmas one eventually but I am lazy and see someone STOLE IT.

[boatofcar]

Personally, I don't like it. There is a girl in my history class who loves Guitar Hero, and others who play ONLY stuff like that and the Wii. It's stupid. I prefer niche communities...I would cringe to see the gaming industry to become a "fun for everybody" thing.

Yeah man. Gaming should only be relegated to 15-35 year olds who live in their parents' basements. Dammit.

[swlovinist]

Good for the Wii, Good that more gamers are coming to video games, good for money to be rolling in. In the end, all gamers benifit because that means that there will be more games made. I agree with alot being said. I have never understood how the "hardcore gamer" got to be twisted into a specific genere or type of game. To me a hardcore gamer could be just anyone who plays any game extreme(example: A grandma who makes a bowling league with her friends friends for Wii Sports)

[DJGeki]

I dunno. I'd have to say that Tetris is a classic textbook example of a casual game if there ever was one. Not that I even buy into that term. Every mother and grandfather played that game for the gameboy. Without that game, you could make a genuine argument that the Gameboy would have failed. And, no, Tetris was never Gameboy only by any stretch of imagination.

Okay, this was my fault for not stating what I meant properly. Let me try again: "Remember when Tetris was the first game for the Gameboy, and that was pretty much the only place you found it?"

And not everyone played the game. A handheld system with interchangeable carts was novel and "scary" to some. My mom NEVER picked up my Gameboy. Not even for Tetris. I'm actually kind of sorry to say that, since I wonder if she would have been any good at it.


I think you could even argue that Tetris single handedly launched the casual Flash-based puzzle genre.

I strongly disagree with the statement

Maybe innovation is the new hardcore...
That wasn't really a statement, so much as a suggestion, or even a stab at the term "hardcore". You're free to disagree with it, but don't mistake what I typed for a solid opinion (or even a half-baked one at that!).


Video games were always designed with everyone in mind. Was Pong not casual enough for you. Was Ms Pac-Man not casual enough? Was Super Mario Bros. not casual enough? Is Katamari Damacy not casual enough for you? Is Wii Sports not casual enough for you.

Why are you attacking me? I support games/gaming in general. I don't really care if it's considered 'casual', 'niche', 'hardcore', or any other title. If it's fun, I'll play it. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you can't make any of the games you mentioned "hard core" if you want. For instance: play SMB through in one sitting, going for the shortest time; play Ms. Pac-Man on a single credit and get as high a score as possible; play Pong so much that no one can beat you...

Exactly what "hardcore" games have been so innovative in the last 5 years? I'll give you GTA3. After that it gets a bit tricky. Good luck.
Actually, I wasn't talking about hardcore games being innovative. I was making a statement about smaller studios (like BitBlot, Cryptic Sea, etc.) being innovative, and therefore being considered 'hardcore'. I don't personally see GTA3 as an innovation so much as an evolution of the series. GTA (the first one) was the innovation. Taking the series to a third-person view with an open storyline was a huge jump, but not really innovative in and of itself. It was one of the logical paths the series could have taken. Of course, I've gotten into semantics, so interpretation is up to anyone's opinion.

To summarize (and probably what I should have said to begin with), I'm of the belief that you make any game what you want it to be. A good design lends itself to whatever the player wants.