Ubisoft having trouble fitting Assassin's Creed on one DVD...

[heybtbm]

This has been reported in several places over the weekend. Microsoft's decision to use DVD over HD-DVD is continuing to be a pain in Ubisoft's ass. The PS3 version apparently isn't doing so hot either. Summary...

http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/12-10-2007-6670.html


If anyone has seen the recent game play videos that came out last week...this game is looking rough. Terrible screen tearing and numerous object popping in and out of view. In one word...ugly (yet so beautiful in other respects). IGN has some nice examples. Panning the camera is just buggy as hell. I hope Ubisoft Montreal can sort this out in the next few weeks. It seems like this game has been in production forever.

My prediction...delay. The November 13th release date isn't looking good. Did anyone else notice how this "awesome" holiday game season is slowly turning "average"?

[gepeto]

What is wrong with multi discs

[theoakwoody]

Agreed, Oh my God we can't fit it on one disc! I was honestly pretty pissed when I found out that Zelda: Twilight Princess was only one disc on the gamecube. Hell, if you have multi-disc you can have more extras and making of the game videos. It's not like DVDs cost more than a couple of cents nowadays.


It sounds like someone had to make something negative up to counter the issues the PS3 version is having. I can't argue with the video not looking great and I wouldn't be surprised if the game is delayed.

[Rob2600]

A DVD can hold up to 9 GB of data. That's huge. What are these developers doing to use up so much disc space?

[Anthony1]

A DVD can hold up to 9 GB of data. That's huge. What are these developers doing to use up so much disc space?

Yeah, the PS3 versions actually have a decent excuse if they are using lossless 7.1 sound. Lossless sound can take up a huge amout of space, and it's a good thing the 360 isn't capable of lossless sound, cause a regular DVD wouldn't cut the mustard.

[NinjaJoey23]

lossless sound = overrated extra that few can take advantage of, and likely fewer can really appreciate.

I'm actually surprised they were able to get Halo 3 on one dvd.

[Anthony1]

lossless sound = overrated extra that few can take advantage of, and likely fewer can really appreciate.

I'm actually surprised they were able to get Halo 3 on one dvd.


Lossless = overrated huh? Hmm, me thinks you've never heard it. Kinda hard to call something overrated if you've never heard it in person. I heard the demo for Ratchet and Clank Future for PS3 on a 7.1 lossless receiver, and it was shocking how amazing and immersive it was. My buddy kept switching back and forth between lossless, and regular 5.1, and the difference was as clear as day.

Now, I won't disagree with the fact that few can take advatage of it. No question. As much as I'm into this stuff, I don't even have a lossless receiver yet. I definitely want one, but haven't found the right one yet. There certainly are only a small minority of people that are experiencing the amazing 7.1 sound found in games like Resistance Fall of Man, Lair and Ratchet & Clank. But I can assure you, that if more people were demoed how it actually sounds, a lossless receiver would top their wish list, as it certainly is toping my wish list.

[jajaja]

What is wrong with multi discs

I think Assasins Creed is more of a free roaming game, then multi discs isnt the best thing to use since it requires more swapping then if it was linear game.



It's not like DVDs cost more than a couple of cents nowadays.

Twice the amount of discs must be produced and extra plastic for the covers so it can hold 2 discs. Eventho its cheap pr. unit, its maybe hundreds of thousands copies made so it will cost some.



A DVD can hold up to 9 GB of data. That's huge. What are these developers doing to use up so much disc space?

Xbox 360 games can only store 7GB of space on each disc. I think the rest is used for some protection stuff or something.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Lossless = overrated huh? Hmm, me thinks you've never heard it. Kinda hard to call something overrated if you've never heard it in person. I heard the demo for Ratchet and Clank Future for PS3 on a 7.1 lossless receiver, and it was shocking how amazing and immersive it was. My buddy kept switching back and forth between lossless, and regular 5.1, and the difference was as clear as day.

Now, I won't disagree with the fact that few can take advatage of it. No question. As much as I'm into this stuff, I don't even have a lossless receiver yet. I definitely want one, but haven't found the right one yet. There certainly are only a small minority of people that are experiencing the amazing 7.1 sound found in games like Resistance Fall of Man, Lair and Ratchet & Clank. But I can assure you, that if more people were demoed how it actually sounds, a lossless receiver would top their wish list, as it certainly is toping my wish list.

Answer me, who the hell needs 7.1 surround sound for spoken voice acting?

Music I can understand, but with sound effects? You CAN and SHOULD use compression. Do that, and with a bit of creative sound mixing you can get the same effect as an uncompressed 7.1 recording.

I think the main issue is that they want the game to be multilingual, and with all that sound data, it's pretty difficult.

[studvicious]

A DVD can hold up to 9 GB of data. That's huge. What are these developers doing to use up so much disc space?

Much like in the PC World, lazy developers. Gone are the days when they're fighting each other for every single byte to try to cram as much streamlined code into the project. Now they have all of this RAM and CPU power and disc space that they don't focus THAT heavily on the optimization part.

[Chuplayer]

Xbox 360 games can only store 7GB of space on each disc. I think the rest is used for some protection stuff or something.

2 gigs of protection? Not even Fort Knox is that heavily guarded.

[Rob2600]

Kitsune Sniper and Studvicious, I agree. I'd bet a little optimization (data compression, audio compression, texture compression, tight programming, etc.) would go a long way.

EDIT: I'm sure salary and time constraints get in the way.

[jajaja]

2 gigs of protection? Not even Fort Knox is that heavily guarded.

I dont know if its all for protectiong (a DVD9 is 8.5GB btw, so it would be 1.5GB), but nevertheless, no Xbox 360 game on a single disc is bigger than 7GB. 7GB is what the developers have to work with on each 360 disc.



Kitsune Sniper and Studvicious, I agree. I'd bet a little optimization (data compression, audio compression, texture compression, tight programming, etc.) would go a long way.

I assume if the problem was that easy to fix they wouldnt call in Microsoft for help. With the details of today's games 7GB of space isnt that much. Games have been getting bigger and bigger for each year. To some extend it might be bad optimizing, but its not the only thing to blame. It totally depends on how the developers want their games to look. Some things does take up more space than other.

[Garry Silljo]

Lossless = overrated huh? Hmm, me thinks you've never heard it. Kinda hard to call something overrated if you've never heard it in person.

Yes, it's overrated, just like HD in general, and YES I've sampled both. It just so happens that not every person gets the same Techno-boner you do when they see or hear new technology. By not turning to mush, we don't affirm we haven't heard it, we just aren't impacted to the same magnitude.

[s1lence]

lossless sound = overrated extra that few can take advantage of, and likely fewer can really appreciate.

I'm actually surprised they were able to get Halo 3 on one dvd.


Actually Halo 3 is just under 7 gigs. Alot of it is filler as well.

[rxd]

What a stupid article. How's this for a bright idea, don't put 5 languages on 1 disk. Doh! I know it's better from a distribution standpoint but come on, that is totally a waste of space and flies in the face of those stating that a DVD isn't big enough....

[Poofta!]

I think Assasins Creed is more of a free roaming game, then multi discs isnt the best thing to use since it requires more swapping then if it was linear game.


shouldnt matter... remember FF7? that was pretty free roaming too, and you could do it all on one disk (only the last dungeon required a new disk). basically everything is stored on both disks is teh same, except for chapter specific fmvs and voice etc.

[udisi]

oh no, people might actually have to get creative while programming. It's things like this that make me appreciate the David Crane's of the world more.

[Ponyone]

If they would just tighten up the graphics on level three some more, I think it would fit (just barely!) on a single dvd

[jajaja]

shouldnt matter... remember FF7? that was pretty free roaming too, and you could do it all on one disk (only the last dungeon required a new disk). basically everything is stored on both disks is teh same, except for chapter specific fmvs and voice etc.

What was on the 3rd disc? I havnt played FF7 more than 30 minutes or so (FF has never really appealed to me). About FF7, i dont think any dual disc (or more) games today works like this, that the whole game is on both discs and they only did multiply discs to fit the FMVs.

I dont say its impossible, but sandbox/free roaming games and multiply discs would sux, since everytime you enter a special area you must swap disc. Then you leave the area, swap disc again. 2 seconds later you forgot to do something in the area, swap disc again, leave area, and yet again, swap disc.

[kaedesdisciple]

What was on the 3rd disc? I havnt played FF7 more than 30 minutes or so (FF has never really appealed to me). About FF7, i dont think any dual disc (or more) games today works like this, that the whole game is on both discs and they only did multiply discs to fit the FMVs.

I dont say its impossible, but sandbox/free roaming games and multiply discs would sux, since everytime you enter a special area you must swap disc. Then you leave the area, swap disc again. 2 seconds later you forgot to do something in the area, swap disc again, leave area, and yet again, swap disc.

It sounds annoying in theory, but please give real examples of how/when that has happened as I would like to know. Seriously, I would like to know, I'm not being sarcastic.

I played through FF VII twice and never had a problem with swapping discs. There were three discs and I swapped twice: 1 -> 2, 2 -> 3. I did a LOT of roaming in that game, especially when acquiring and grinding all those Materia up in the late game as well as taking down the optional bosses. If the game is constructed correctly, multi-disc will not be an issue to most people (some people will complain no matter what you do).

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying that I think people are making it out to be more annoying than it really is. It's not like this is the C64 where some games required you to swap disks every time you changed floors or certain rooms (Project Firestart, I'm looking in your direction).

[Rob2600]

It sounds annoying in theory, but please give real examples of how/when that has happened as I would like to know. Seriously, I would like to know, I'm not being sarcastic. ... I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying that I think people are making it out to be more annoying than it really is. It's not like this is the C64 where some games required you to swap disks every time you changed floors or certain rooms (Project Firestart, I'm looking in your direction).

Riven was like that. I played the computer version on CD-ROM and every few minutes, I'd have to swap discs (there was a total of five).

The disc swapping, just like the game itself, was an annoying waste of time.

[Daria]

Riven was like that. I played the computer version on CD-ROM and every few minutes, I'd have to swap discs (there was a total of five).

The disc swapping, just like the game itself, was an annoying waste of time.

Baldur's Gate (PC) was also a nightmare when it came to disc swapping. Especially if I wanted to travel back and forth between towns.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Yes, it's overrated, just like HD in general, and YES I've sampled both. It just so happens that not every person gets the same Techno-boner you do when they see or hear new technology. By not turning to mush, we don't affirm we haven't heard it, we just aren't impacted to the same magnitude.

Techno-boner? Sounds like a new word to add to the dictionary.

First of all, I am about a dozen years behind the technology curve. When using my PC, and the game systems in my bedroom, I use headphones and in the living room, I use the speakers in my regular, non-HD TV.

I guess the case with the 7.1 sound is typical of the catch-22 situation that exists with the newest tech. There aren't many people with the equipment to take advantage of it because not many companies are using it yet, but the companies won't put stuff out using it until the user base is there.

JY

[jajaja]

It sounds annoying in theory, but please give real examples of how/when that has happened as I would like to know. Seriously, I would like to know, I'm not being sarcastic.

I played through FF VII twice and never had a problem with swapping discs. There were three discs and I swapped twice: 1 -> 2, 2 -> 3. I did a LOT of roaming in that game, especially when acquiring and grinding all those Materia up in the late game as well as taking down the optional bosses. If the game is constructed correctly, multi-disc will not be an issue to most people (some people will complain no matter what you do).

I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying that I think people are making it out to be more annoying than it really is. It's not like this is the C64 where some games required you to swap disks every time you changed floors or certain rooms (Project Firestart, I'm looking in your direction).

If FF7 is like Poofta! says, that the full game is on both discs, it wouldnt be a problem, but as said, this technique wouldnt be used today, i'm 99.9% sure of that.

Myst and Baldur's Gate 2 have already been mentioned, other than those i cant really give you any examples, but i guess Phantasmagoria 1 and 2 also required alot of swapping considering those games were on like 7-8 CDs (not sure if these games a linear or free roaming tho, but still).

Heavy swapping isnt only annyoing in theory, but in real life too :) Of course, whats annyoing variates from person to person, but i just gave an example that heavy swapping would/could be annoying as a reason why developers are trying to avoid it. I belive the reason why not many games requires swapping like hell is because developers know it will be annoying and they do what they can to avoid it.

[kaedesdisciple]

Rob2600, Daria, thanks! I really did want to know what games did that so I could avoid them. Of course in Riven's case, if the game sucks, swapping only makes the experience that much more terrible.

[Poofta!]

If FF7 is like Poofta! says, that the full game is on both discs, it wouldnt be a problem, but as said, this technique wouldnt be used today, i'm 99.9% sure of that.

Myst and Baldur's Gate 2 have already been mentioned, other than those i cant really give you any examples, but i guess Phantasmagoria 1 and 2 also required alot of swapping considering those games were on like 7-8 CDs (not sure if these games a linear or free roaming tho, but still).

Heavy swapping isnt only annyoing in theory, but in real life too :) Of course, whats annyoing variates from person to person, but i just gave an example that heavy swapping would/could be annoying as a reason why developers are trying to avoid it. I belive the reason why not many games requires swapping like hell is because developers know it will be annoying and they do what they can to avoid it.



the only games that required heavy swapping, aside from Riven (not myst) and Baldur's Gate 1 (not 2) were FMV games for PC and PS.

riven blows and BG is too good for it to matter.

as for FF7, it was as mentioned, you only needed to do the swap once for disk 2 (after a lengthy fmv and world-changing event) and once for disk 3 (once you entered the final dungeon you couldnt get out of). so you could explore the entire world on either disk 1 or 2. i honestly am not sure how it was done, but all future PS FFs were the same. and they were all free roaming.

[jajaja]

as for FF7, it was as mentioned, you only needed to do the swap once for disk 2 (after a lengthy fmv and world-changing event) and once for disk 3 (once you entered the final dungeon you couldnt get out of). so you could explore the entire world on either disk 1 or 2. i honestly am not sure how it was done, but all future PS FFs were the same. and they were all free roaming.

Ok, but then it sounds like the whole world (except the last dungeon) is on 1 disc. And if you couldnt get out of the last dungeon its no longer free roaming, then you can say the game became linear. If its possible to fit the whole world on 1 disc, then its no problem of course. My examples is if the free roaming world is too big to fit on 1 disc.

But its just examples for those who say dual or more discs arent any problems. For me, i dont want to swap disc every time i enter a certain area in a free roaming world, if its an area that needs to be visited rather often. Luckily the developers today are good enough to avoid this in most cases.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Metal Gear Solid has the entire world on both disks; however, the sound and video data for the first half of the game (cinemas and speech) is only on the first CD. You can't start a new game using Disk 2, all that data is missing. The game prompts you to insert CD 1 instead.

I figure it was like that with FF7 and other games.

[heybtbm]

The Gamecube version of LOTR: The Third Age was split in two discs and required you to switch back and forth depending on which areas of the map you wanted to go. Unacceptable in this day and age. As has been mentioned in this thread, even the multi-disc Playstation RPG's didn't require you to switch discs back and forth.